User:Sheana/errata
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Malton Synagogue/Malton Mosque/Malton Temple
| Timestamp: | Sheana T / TMZ 04:26, 14 November 2007 (UTC) |
| Type: | Flavor/Building |
| Scope: | Survivors (and spiritual zombies?) |
| Description: | Preface: Yes, I have read the previous suggestions on religion in Malton. I'm not proposing prayer, or changing a sizable number of streets to diverse houses of worship or suggesting a that we rename all Churches and Cathedrals and crucifixes to non-denominational houses of faith (or non-denominational objects of faith). This does not add any new buildings or change the function of any existing buildings; it's essentially a name/flavor upgrade.
That said, I think there's a decent amount of religious diversity in Malton, and with the history of suggestions it's apparent that at least a handful of people are interested in flavoring up the city. My suggestion, then, is to put one synagogue, one mosque and one temple in Malton, in an areas historically noted for an active Jewish/Muslim/Buddhist populations.
As with churches, survivors would be able to find first aid kits at the same rate in the synagogue, mosque and temple; the only practical difference would be the absence of crucifixes and wine in the buildings (except for the synagogue, which would still have wine at a find rate approximately the same as in churches/cathedrals). Like churches and cathedrals, the synagogue, mosque and temple would not have doors that could be closed, but it would be barricadable. How would this benefit survivors? Obviously, there's the possibility for more RP in the game (religious fanatics, a real home for any emergent Jewish/Muslim/Buddhist/Hindu groups). It wouldn't detract from the game, because an essentially flavor building will stay a flavor building - you don't get experience for having a bat mitzvah, you don't find flamethrowers, the walls aren't scribbled with writings from the Torah or the Koran, etc. It's just a bit of interesting flavor. As for zombies... I suppose it would depend on who was maintaining the structure, but they could theoretically partake of the Jewy goodness as well. And even if they're not spiritual, it's still a building to break into for brains. Finally, in discussion it was brought up that hate groups could form in opposition to these suggested buildings. I would counter this with the fact that these groups already exist and are relatively well-handled - just look at the efficient addressing of text rapists, for example. |
Discussion (Malton Synagogue/Malton Mosque/Malton Temple)
Yeah, I think I'd support this. At first I was thinking the tounge-in-cheek nature of the different groups/movements associated with the proposed locations was a bad thing... But, actually, I think this is a GOOD thing... This probably *will* get spammed by those who don't want anything religious added/changed... but oh well... --WanYao 07:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- Oh, actually, I must say that I do not like the generic names, "Malton" whatever... but, picking non-generic names would be hard, hmph. And... yes... New Arkham is famous for its HIPPIES! ;P --WanYao 08:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
This appears to be very, very similar to the previous suggestion but with the Mosque and Temple added in! Its still a NO from me for all the same reasons... Religious fanatics (rea ones) will only bring harm to the game. In an ideal world these would be good flavour... sadly in the world I play from they would only be magnets for abuse on a thoroughly foul level! If muslims will threaten violent death to people for drawing their prophet how will they react to us filling a fictional mosque with "turban" wearing zombies and idiots screaming "THE PROFIT SUCKS JESUS'S COCK" and yes i did spell that wrong deliberatly! --Honestmistake 10:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
This is a Dupe. The previous, I believe, is in Reviewed. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 10:39, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- Could you point me to where it is? Like Pdeq below, I've searched and haven't found anything really similar. The only one (which I reference in the actual suggestion) suggests turning many of Malton's streets into different religious buildings, as well as adding new searchable objects. I believe this suggestion is substantially different because it only really changes the name of the buildings, not their essential function. Sheana T / TMZ 18:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- The only similar suggestion I could find is here. The key differences are that this new suggestion does not seek to turn streets into religious places, and it does not introduce any new items (Clothing being significantly different from items, because the only people who notice it are the ones specifically trying to get clothing, versus items which bother you when you search), which were the two main reasons the last one was voted down. If you can find a similar one in peer reviewed, please link it here so we can be sure it is not a dupe.
Also, maybe add yamaka to the list of clothing at the synagogue.Nevermind, kippa is the same thing. --Pdeq 11:11, 14 November 2007 (UTC)- What items would be found in these buildings? The crucifix would have to go and as far as I know, consumption of alcohol is something of a no-no to muslims, so no wine in the mosque. Would these affect the search rates of other items? --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 11:19, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not really familiar with what items are typically found in churches, but you're right in that some should not be found in these other types of buildings. I would suggest that no new items should be found, as that will increase the odds of this getting shot down. --Pdeq 11:29, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- Obviously no wine or crucifixes would be found in Mosques, perhaps replace them with books instead? With the Synagogue, leave the wine, remove the crucifix and add in books as well. I suppose there could be an argument for finding knives in a Mosque - the Islamic festivals of Eid al Addha and Eid al Fitr involve the sacrificing of animals. --Pavluk A! E! 12:58, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- I think knives would be a bad idea. I presume those festivals are specific to certain sects, and would therefore make the mosque less generic. Books sounds like a good idea. --Pdeq 13:44, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- If (by some miracle) this passed I would demand a temple of the "Branch Davidian" cult or whatever the hell it was called... searchable items = booze, porn, guns and body armour! You want to open the game up to religious diversity and you will face a lot of demands like that... actually mine is more in genre than this pointless excercise! --Honestmistake 13:49, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- The goal of this suggestion is to add flavor. That is, it is reasonable to expect a city like Malton would likely have a Mosque or temple among the dozens of churches. These are common buildings in cities, not obscure things like a cult buildings. Things you typically find in cities: schools, churches, mosques, temples, police stations, fire stations, hospitals, post offices, etc. Things you don't typically find in cities: temple of the Branch Dividian, Secret CIA lab, etc. The presence of churches in Malton has caused no major problems, why would one expect that other common religious buildings would be so significantly different? Furthermore, fear of stupid suggestions like "temple of Branch Davidian" is no reason to vote down this one. What, you're worried that if this passes that we'll have to vote "spam" on some subsequent suggestion? --Pdeq 14:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- Perhaps, but realism is not really an issue here. I can guarantee that you will not find a single firearm in any british Shopping Mall unless it is very firmly in the hands of a police firearms specialist. Most of our police do not carry guns either, Firemen very rarely use axes and the only forts in Britain are historical sites! You will not find any secret corporate entities experimenting on the population either (they are too well hidden!) I could go on and on but a zombie apocalypse needs guns (it could also use molotove cocktails and chainsaws but...) it needs secret organisations and it needs safe(ish) strongholds. What it does not need is any extra excuse for idiots to abuse other players! We already get a small amount of retards trying to annoy the religious and vice-versa but as its all very generic its fairly low key and rare... start putting contentious things like specific religions in and that will change. Synagogues will be targets for nazi's and how much fun will jewish players get defending their building from constant graffitti? Mosques will attract similar unwelcome attention and its just not going to be funny. --Honestmistake 14:18, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- I hate to say it, but as I already made this point on the previous version of this suggestion - abuse already happens, and it's fairly well-handled in game, I think. The prime example that I can think of is text rapists: they're pretty much universally loathed, added to many many kill lists (permanently, usually) and ignore lists. Under your argument, shouldn't we just ban speaking and graffiti in general, so as not to encourage text rapists and others who are already spreading hate in the game? And if you're so against adding a bit of religious flavor on the grounds that we don't need more religion, wouldn't the logical end of that argument just be to turn all existing cathedrals and churches into supermarkets or something equally flavor-less?Sheana T / TMZ 18:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- If you are so convinced that this will have so little effect then what is the point of it? Even if it doesn't bring the vermin out it still is not worth putting into the game as it serves no usefull or game enhancing purpose! --Honestmistake 22:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- It is flavour. WanYao 07:37, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
- If you are so convinced that this will have so little effect then what is the point of it? Even if it doesn't bring the vermin out it still is not worth putting into the game as it serves no usefull or game enhancing purpose! --Honestmistake 22:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- I hate to say it, but as I already made this point on the previous version of this suggestion - abuse already happens, and it's fairly well-handled in game, I think. The prime example that I can think of is text rapists: they're pretty much universally loathed, added to many many kill lists (permanently, usually) and ignore lists. Under your argument, shouldn't we just ban speaking and graffiti in general, so as not to encourage text rapists and others who are already spreading hate in the game? And if you're so against adding a bit of religious flavor on the grounds that we don't need more religion, wouldn't the logical end of that argument just be to turn all existing cathedrals and churches into supermarkets or something equally flavor-less?Sheana T / TMZ 18:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- Perhaps, but realism is not really an issue here. I can guarantee that you will not find a single firearm in any british Shopping Mall unless it is very firmly in the hands of a police firearms specialist. Most of our police do not carry guns either, Firemen very rarely use axes and the only forts in Britain are historical sites! You will not find any secret corporate entities experimenting on the population either (they are too well hidden!) I could go on and on but a zombie apocalypse needs guns (it could also use molotove cocktails and chainsaws but...) it needs secret organisations and it needs safe(ish) strongholds. What it does not need is any extra excuse for idiots to abuse other players! We already get a small amount of retards trying to annoy the religious and vice-versa but as its all very generic its fairly low key and rare... start putting contentious things like specific religions in and that will change. Synagogues will be targets for nazi's and how much fun will jewish players get defending their building from constant graffitti? Mosques will attract similar unwelcome attention and its just not going to be funny. --Honestmistake 14:18, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- The goal of this suggestion is to add flavor. That is, it is reasonable to expect a city like Malton would likely have a Mosque or temple among the dozens of churches. These are common buildings in cities, not obscure things like a cult buildings. Things you typically find in cities: schools, churches, mosques, temples, police stations, fire stations, hospitals, post offices, etc. Things you don't typically find in cities: temple of the Branch Dividian, Secret CIA lab, etc. The presence of churches in Malton has caused no major problems, why would one expect that other common religious buildings would be so significantly different? Furthermore, fear of stupid suggestions like "temple of Branch Davidian" is no reason to vote down this one. What, you're worried that if this passes that we'll have to vote "spam" on some subsequent suggestion? --Pdeq 14:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- If (by some miracle) this passed I would demand a temple of the "Branch Davidian" cult or whatever the hell it was called... searchable items = booze, porn, guns and body armour! You want to open the game up to religious diversity and you will face a lot of demands like that... actually mine is more in genre than this pointless excercise! --Honestmistake 13:49, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- I think knives would be a bad idea. I presume those festivals are specific to certain sects, and would therefore make the mosque less generic. Books sounds like a good idea. --Pdeq 13:44, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- Obviously no wine or crucifixes would be found in Mosques, perhaps replace them with books instead? With the Synagogue, leave the wine, remove the crucifix and add in books as well. I suppose there could be an argument for finding knives in a Mosque - the Islamic festivals of Eid al Addha and Eid al Fitr involve the sacrificing of animals. --Pavluk A! E! 12:58, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not really familiar with what items are typically found in churches, but you're right in that some should not be found in these other types of buildings. I would suggest that no new items should be found, as that will increase the odds of this getting shot down. --Pdeq 11:29, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- What items would be found in these buildings? The crucifix would have to go and as far as I know, consumption of alcohol is something of a no-no to muslims, so no wine in the mosque. Would these affect the search rates of other items? --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 11:19, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
I like it. I'd totally support this suggestion! CharonX 00:31, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
HIPPIES!!! UCFSD 15:47, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm all for diversity, and whatnot, but I don't think we need to bring the Politically Correct Nazis to Urban Dead. What's next? Do we need to rename Zombies "formerly living re-animated people"? --Steakfish 02:15, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
- This suggestion isn't about being politically correct, it's about adding flavor for those that want to RP using other religions. The concept of adding mosques and synagogues has been added before, but I don't consider this a dupe. There are specific locations nominated which have their own reasons based on historical gameplay (such and such group was active here..., etc.). --Uncle Bill 05:38, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't fear them... I just don't see any need to give them extra ammunition! Generic "churches" are fine so why change em?--Honestmistake 00:09, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Malton Synagogue/Malton Mosque/Malton Temple - UPDATED
| Timestamp: | Sheana T / TMZ 04:26, 14 November 2007 (UTC) |
| Type: | Flavor/Building |
| Scope: | Survivors (and spiritual zombies?) |
| Description: | Preface: Yes, I have read the previous suggestions on religion in Malton. I'm not proposing prayer, or changing a sizable number of streets to diverse houses of worship or suggesting a that we rename all Churches and Cathedrals and crucifixes to non-denominational houses of faith (or non-denominational objects of faith). This does not add any new buildings or change the function of any existing buildings; it's essentially a name/flavor upgrade.
That said, I think there's a decent amount of religious diversity in Malton, and with the history of suggestions it's apparent that at least a handful of people are interested in flavoring up the city. My suggestion, then, is to put one synagogue, one mosque and one temple in Malton, in an areas historically noted for an active Jewish/Muslim/Buddhist populations.
As with churches, survivors would be able to find first aid kits at the same rate in the synagogue, mosque and temple; the only practical difference would be the absence of crucifixes in the buildings. As with churches and cathedrals, while in the synagogue/mosque/temple, survivors would have the option of donning a selection of clothes (described above). Like churches and cathedrals, the synagogue, mosque and temple would not have doors that could be closed, but it would be barricadable. How would this benefit survivors? Obviously, there's the possibility for more RP in the game (religious fanatics, a real home for any emergent Jewish/Muslim/Buddhist/Hindu groups). It wouldn't detract from the game, because an essentially flavor building will stay a flavor building - you don't get experience for having a bat mitzvah, you don't find flamethrowers, the walls aren't scribbled with writings from the Torah or the Koran, etc. It's just a bit of interesting flavor. As for zombies... I suppose it would depend on who was maintaining the structure, but they could theoretically partake of the Jewy goodness as well. And even if they're not spiritual, it's still a building to break into for brains. |
Discussion (Malton Synagogue, Malton Mosque, Malton Temple)
Sounds like a plan. Stick in a Mosque and maybe a Hindu Temple as well.--SeventythreeTalk 22:47, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
- Hm, I thought about that but I wasn't sure where. Any idea where they should go? I was trying to respect the regional history when I made the suggestion - I'd be all for having one of each of those, but I don't know about just plopping it down somewhere random, or if there've been Hindu/Muslim groups active in particular 'burbs. Then again, they're religious buildings, so they're all somewhat random anyway. Sheana T / TMZ 22:51, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
- I would stick both in an area with lots of streets and residential tower blocks. Large population = Higher number of other religions.--SeventythreeTalk 22:54, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
- JIHAAAADDDDDDDDDDD!!! BoboTalkClown 23:12, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
- (sigh) Jihad does not usualy mean war. It means "struggle of faith" and can refer to many different actions. [1]--SeventythreeTalk 23:14, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
- It's still funny. UCFSD 17:36, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
- (sigh) Jihad does not usualy mean war. It means "struggle of faith" and can refer to many different actions. [1]--SeventythreeTalk 23:14, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
- JIHAAAADDDDDDDDDDD!!! BoboTalkClown 23:12, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
- I would stick both in an area with lots of streets and residential tower blocks. Large population = Higher number of other religions.--SeventythreeTalk 22:54, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
I like this. You should be renamed Captain Flavour, 73! As to location, perhaps put the Synagogue somewhere with a Jewish-sounding name like Feldstein Place. A few mosques would be good, as well as Hindu and Sikh temples. --Pavluk A! E! 23:38, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
Heh. captain flavour! I like it!--SeventythreeTalk 00:00, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
It might be much easier to just seize the Church and spraypaint it as "NO LONGER A CHURCH! NOW A SYNOGUAGUE!" Or, better yet, rechristen a Mall as a Synogauge, that way, you can easily defend it better from seiges and ensure that people respect your claims a bit more than usual.
The reason is that regional history really shouldn't mean much or be defined much or made offical at all. Kevan wants players to do whatever they want. You want to change regional history? Do so within the framework of the game. I remember the Galactic Empire seizing Dakerstown, the Commies controlling Old Arkham, the peacenix factions hiding out in New Arkham...and who can ever forget the lovable DARIS in Shearbank?
- Fair enough, but regional history isn't my reason for having a synagogue, so much as for picking the location of a synagogue. It makes sense to have it regardless of where it ends up - this just seemed as logical a place as any. Sheana T / TMZ 05:18, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- Still, I suppose it's just too minor to truly add in, and would probraly make other religions demand their own place. I still back the idea that, in order to create a synagouge, just seize the church and rename it.--ShadowScope 02:16, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I think something like that was suggested before and ended up in the Peer Rejected. -- John RubinT! ZG 
10:51, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- Here. Similar, but that one was rejected for introducing too many new items, changing streets into religious buildings, and also because voters felt it was simply an effort to be politically correct. There may have been other similar suggestions, but I didn't find any. --Pdeq 11:22, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
While I like the idea, how do you stop once you are sliding down the wet banana of, erm, i mean the steep slipperly slope... A synagogue would be great. But then you need a mosque. And a then Buddhist temple. Then a Hindu temple... but wait, to which god(ess)??? Oh okay we need a couple of Hindu temples... And then I guess we need a Shinto shrine. And oh wait, what about those pagan primitivists who are popping up in this apocalypse?? We will then need a temple of Odin. And one for Zeus. But wait do not forget about the Celts!!! And so on and so on... See where I am going with this? Actually.... if you suggested converting one fort into Mosque and the other into a Synagogue... THEN you might be onto something... :p --WanYao 17:01, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- Actually... you know what? Re-reading and thinking about this... Yeah. We should have one synagogue, and I totally get why. And one mosque. And one Buddhist temple. I dunno where the mosque would go, but the Buddhist temple HAS to go in New Arkham... what with the Free Tebbet Campaign and all the DAMN HIPPIES down thaddawayz. :) But people will have to aware that adding these elements can also add the possibility of RP hate groups developing... Are you willing to accept that? As it is, it is generic, and there is not much space for that kinda stuff. Add a synagogue? And neo-nazi arses will come out of the woodwork -- and trust me, they exist in this game.... Add a mosque, and every yank hyped on CNN and Bush-isms will be trying to burn it.... You up for that?? --WanYao 17:13, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- NOI for one am not up for that. Once that sort of shit gets a toe hold the game will be deader than a zombie on headshot day!--Honestmistake 17:30, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- How on earth do you get that? It's more flavor... if anything, I can only see how it'd make the game a little livelier. Sheana T / TMZ 17:37, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- People play the game for fun... put in a synagogue as a focus for jewish players and you find it also attracts assholes who find it funny to repeatedly PK and yell anti-semitic garbage, likewise for the mosque if it got put in. How much fun is it to be endlessly abused? Then there is the point that if you start including diverse religions where do you stop? Keeping it generic keeps it in players imagination and that is the way it should be! --Honestmistake 09:38, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
- How on earth do you get that? It's more flavor... if anything, I can only see how it'd make the game a little livelier. Sheana T / TMZ 17:37, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- To WanYao: Yeah, that's something I'm prepared for - but I mean, those groups likely exist already, and it seems like it could inspire even more people to get involved in the game/metagaming. But as one who runs a female zambah group, I've already encountered a bit of anti-woman BS, and it's easy enough to add someone to your ignore list. Thanks for the suggestion re: where to put a Buddhist temple. I'll go poke around New Arkham and revise the suggestion.Sheana T / TMZ 17:37, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- NOI for one am not up for that. Once that sort of shit gets a toe hold the game will be deader than a zombie on headshot day!--Honestmistake 17:30, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
While I personally have no problem with it, the slippery slopes, political correctness, and all that, there is one thing that would make me lean towards a No vote. The vast majority of movies featuring the undead revolve around Christianity as the religion that combats these evil forces. There's only one time I've seen anyone pull out a Star of David to protect themselves - "The Mummy" (90's version with Brenden Fraiser). While adding a synagogue is more realistic for the reality, it's not realistic for the fantasy. Still, it would be funny to search a synagogue for clothes and put on a yarmulka!--Actingupagain 18:00, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- Wasn't there a film with a Jewish vampire that wasn't scared of crosses? Also, there's plenty of tales of the living dead in Jewish and Islamic folklore. The word 'ghoul' comes from Arabic --Pavluk A! E! 21:57, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- You might be thinking of "Love at First Bite", when a star was pulled on Dracula and the guy said "Ah shit, it's the other one, isn't it?" While you have a point about folklore, most of what this game is based on are the movies, which are woefully short of references other than Christian.--Actingupagain 16:45, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I'll vote for this, all it is is a name change, and a change in description, and really does at to the game. I like the idea of adding other religious sort buildings too, just adds to the city really no harm done. this one is specific and thought out, i encorage you to go forward with this. --Jack13 18:43, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Me myself believe in no religion. But in the sake of fairness, why shouldn't a synagogue appear in malton when the christian faiths have their share of buildings of worship. The same counts for the other major religions. Seriously, the arguments against this is all about how you soon would have to fall in to the pleas of all other religions. But seing it from a RP standpoint, if Malton was a major city (which it seems to be) there shouldn't just be places of worship for the ones of the christian belief. Instead all major religions should have a place, as in the real world. This from somone who believes in neither of above. -- Karth FoD 22:15, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- There shouldn't be any religious buildings, but as there are the only point to adding more would be to be fair to everyone cause it opens the door to "Well you added them, what are you discriminatory?" type debates. We don't need everyone requesting 'insert church of your choice' being added to the game --Karekmaps?! 00:43, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
In real life if someone sprays a bigoted comment on a church they get arrested. In UD nothing bad would happen. Let's not give anyone a forum for intolerant graffiti. --Jon Pyre 16:56, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
- True, but that's sort of assuming that intolerance isn't already a problem in the game. I think a great example of how this has been handled is the case of text rapists - they're pretty much universally loathed, and added to most folks' kill lists. In that way, a lot of the game has been self-policing. Sheana T / TMZ 04:32, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
