User talk:Boxy/Suggestions/Toolbox vs. Heavy Barricades

Toolbox vs. Heavy Barricades

Timestamp: -- boxy talk • teh rulz 13:20 25 August 2009 (BST)

Type: Accuracy change

Scope: Survivors removing barricades over VS

Description: Toolboxes are carried around by dedicated, maintenance orientated survivors, and would contain tools like pribars, hammers, handsaws, etc., that are perfect for removing the tangle of barricade material when the cades are more than VSB, but it's tools arn't very helpful when just levering away lighter cades, which just requires brute strength. The mechanics of this suggestion is that the halving of the melee weapon hit rate when aimed at barricades be removed from toolboxes, just like is currently the case with the crowbar, giving the toolbox a slightly higher hit rate (25% vs. 20%), but once the cades come down to VSB, the bonus is removed from the toolbox.

Discussion (Toolbox vs. Heavy Barricades)

I like this, so long as the crowbar is still alot better than the toolbox.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 15:17, 25 August 2009 (BST)

It isn't, the crowbar's accuracy against barricades is 20%, with this, the toolbox would have and accuracy of 25%. I don't like it because it encourages the tearing down of barricades from the inside to VSB. While that is not a death sentence, I don't want a death cultist or a griefer coming along and tearing down my barricades when I'm holding off zombies outside of a building. The only use I see for this is to encourage the aforementioned activities because a crowbar does the same job for less encumbrance and a maxed-out survivor can just as easily use a fire axe as a crowbar to tear down barricades, especially most survivors have one on them anyway. -- Uberursa^{this bear wants honey} 19:49, 25 August 2009 (BST)

Then I disapprove. The Crowbar should always be the best weapon for decading. And Uberursa, as far as I can see, the primary purpose of this would be dealing with overcading, from a survivor's perspective.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 20:12, 25 August 2009 (BST)

I like it. Overbarricading is one of the most annoying things for survivors of all levels. Especially newbs. So let's make the game more fun, give survivors a nice way to bring the cades to VSB and let the good times roll.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 01:44, 26 August 2009 (BST)

Anything that allows survivors to lower barricade levels also allows survivors to lower barricade levels; beware of griefing potential. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 03:07, 26 August 2009 (BST)

That's why it's limited to heavily and above barricades, and balanced by being a toolbox with a huge encumbrance. Overbarricading by paranoid survivors (rather than griefers) is annoying to a survivor character trying to keep an area "newbie friendly", because it's almost impossible to do anything about it... I've thought about it, and the best option (hell, make that the only option) would be to jump out a window, and start clawing -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 11:02 26 August 2009 (BST)

Everyone carries a toolbox anyway. The encumbrance isn't going to dissuade them. Crowbars should always be the best decading weapon for survivors, because that's the point of the crowbar. Make the crowbar better in that barricade bracket, don't make something else better than the crowbar.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 11:28, 26 August 2009 (BST)

Unfortunately, the axe is "technically" better at debarricading then the crowbar when you get axe profiency. Both are 20% against barricades, so why bother carrying a crowbar too? Oh and, even with the suggestion's limitations, you don't like it?--Pesatyel 07:16, 26 August 2009 (BST)

I would support making the crowbar better or making a skill that allowed a survivor to better use the crowbar and/or fire axe for dealing with over barricading. This is simply for realistic purposes, because a screwdriver isn't going to be as effective as a crowbar when getting rid of things in the way. In other words, a toolbox is meant to build while a crowbar is meant to destroy. -- Uberursa^{this bear wants honey} 20:56, 26 August 2009 (BST)

Maybe he should just [change] it from "toolbox" to "crowbar".--Pesatyel 04:31, 27 August 2009 (BST)

The reason I didn't just buff the crowbar is that I can't see any flavour reason that would fit having a crowbar work better for heavy barricades, but not make it better at completely removing them. Making the toolbox better at removing high cade levels, was the perfect flavour solution (as explained above), and also a way of ensuring that there would be a cost involved in the boost. But the cost (carrying a heavy toolbox) only applied to survivors who weren't already wholly survivor/maintenance orientated. As Yonnua Koponen pointed out above, "everyone carries a toolbox anyway"... this isn't correct. The only people who already carry a toolbox are ones that find them useful. People who maintain suburbs for survivors. PKers and death cultists have very little need for a toolbox as it is, and are much better off filling up on weapons, FAKs, weapons, syringes and more weapons. By making these "anti-survivor" types carry another piece of (damn heavy) equipment that they wouldn't otherwise, it makes it less likely to be used as a griefing tool, as would no doubt happen if crowbars were buffed to any degree nearing what zombies can do with their claws. (btw. I added a word to your post above, please let me know if I got it wrong) -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 02:00 29 August 2009 (BST)

This is the perfect setup for adding a dynamic for countering over-barricading in an interesting way. The intricacies behind the choice of item, flavour and resultant balancing are off the scale awe-inspiring for such a simple change on the face of it. Would strong keep and possibly create socks to strong keep too. --  RoosterDragon  02:29, 29 August 2009 (BST)

No prob. I liked the idea, but I do see a problem with the crowbar being took weak at its "job". I mean it is the ONLY weapon that isn't halved against barricade but even then it is still, technically, inferior to an axe once you get the two skills. Just something that needs to be considered in a suggestion about debarricading. As for the correction to my post...doh!--Pesatyel 04:23, 29 August 2009 (BST)

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