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| {{Developing Suggestions Intro}} | | <noinclude>{{Developing Suggestions Intro}}</noinclude> |
| ==Suggestions==
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| ===Encumbrance/Search Tweak=== | | |
| | ===Ignore based on Radio Broadcast=== |
| {| | | {| |
| |'''Timestamp:''' {{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>23:22 22 March 2011(UTC)</tt> | | |'''Timestamp:''' [[User:Khwud|Khwud]] ([[User talk:Khwud|talk]]) 17:27, 8 July 2024 (UTC) |
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| |'''Type:''' Improvement | | |'''Type:''' UI enhancement |
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| |'''Scope:''' Encumbrance/Search mechanics | | |'''Scope:''' Interface |
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| |'''Description:''' <br> | | |'''Description:''' Allow 'ignore' from radio broadcasts; users are hiding behind their anonymity to allow them to broadcast things that would broadly trigger them to be ignored, if their user ID was visible. Adding their name, or an auto-generated call-sign (it is for a radio, after all) or something so that they could be blocked based on their broadcasts would help user experience. In addition, and broadcasts that get more than a threshold number could get tagged for review, and the user potentially having their (in-game) ham-license revoked. |
| 1. The Encumbrance of all items is doubled.
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| 2. New Survivor Civilian Skill: Scavenging. Scavenging gives a +25% chance to find items for ANY search.
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| This would be more fun for Survivors I would think. Afterall, who really enjoys searching a non-Mall for 50 AP and turning up with only a handful of items? 75% of which was shit you probably just automatically threw away. Basically, while you would be able to carry less, you would be able to find things a lot quicker. You'd just cycle through items faster, and being able to find what you want when you want would lead to less "spending my entire day searching for one fuel can" or whatever. You might be better able to find items in an emergency, like say if your PD is being overrun, you could pull up ammo a lot quicker and maybe turn the tide in your favor. Might help counter that zombies holding the door open effect. Might be able to win a Mall siege again, who knows.
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| Would make Malls even more disgusting, but with some decent search rates away from the Mall, it might just lure a few people away from them.
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| |} | | |} |
| ====Discussion (Encumbrance/Search Tweak)==== | | ====Discussion (Ignore based on Radio Broadcast)==== |
| I kinda prefer the system as it is now with some minor tweaks. Things like basing the number of certain items you can carry at once off their weight. For example you could only carry one 20% encumbrance item(I think that is gennys, artifacts and the like) but you could carry as many pistol clips as you can find up to the 100% weight limit.{{User:Mazu/sig}} 11:12, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
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| Humans don't need to be able to have a wildly significant bonus in finding items. As a human, it is rare for me to not kill at least 2 zombies per day, whereas as a zombie, it is rare to even get inside a building by yourself. And as the humans greatly outnumber the zombies now (and have for awhile), I hardly see a reason to just give humans such a great bonus.--[[User:Gerald Studabaker|Gerald Studabaker]] 22:34, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :You don't think only being able to carry half the current encumbrance changes anything?{{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>23:01 23 March 2011(UTC)</tt>
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| ::It'd basically mean they'd be able to kill and restock in the same day because of the higher search efficiency. Instead of the current system where normally a survivor can kill one zed maybe wound another one depending on the RNG and their load out and then restock for a day or two. So in a sense your suggestion would make survivors almost <i>more effective</i>.{{User:Mazu/sig}} 10:38, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :::It would, as long as their area was well off. It would hamper those that like to stock up and go off into dangerous areas. Basically my aim is to limit their range more realistically. Keep supply lines shorter by not allowing them to carry a warehouse on their back. Of course the search bonus doesn't have to be as much as +25%. +10%, +20% or whatever would work best. I'm sure Kevan would change it anyway, probably tweaking it up and down until the best balance was found.{{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>14:06 24 March 2011(UTC)</tt>
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| ---- | | ---- |
| | | ===Shrink the map=== |
| ===Shovel, Revised=== | |
| {| | | {| |
| |'''Timestamp:''' [[User:Gavriil|Gavriil]] 21:08, 22 March 2011 (UTC) | | |'''Timestamp:''' --[[User:Uroguy|Uroguy]]<sup>[[Zookeepers|TMZ]]</sup> 16:28, 14 February 2023 (UTC) |
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| |'''Type:''' Weapon | | |'''Type:''' Map change |
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| |'''Scope:''' Survivors | | |'''Scope:''' Everyone |
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| |'''Description:''' So, yeah, after I submitted my suggestion I realized it was one heck of a dupe and I forgot to put in a lot of details. So here goes. The shovel is an alternate melee weapon (instead of the axe) for high-level survivors. It would come with a very low search rate, so that only those with the time and strength to search for a while could find it. However, it would have a potent 3 damage and quite high starting accuracy (~15%). The reason I think it should be this high is so that it feels like you're carrying around a potent weapon, without the burden of a "Shovel Training" skill. Also, to make sure the Axe and other weapons don't get outmoded, it would have a high encumbrance (because it would be a pain to lug around a 5-foot-long shovel) and possibly reduced damage against barricades. And honestly, it won't be as powerful as the Axe, it's just something a little different. | | |'''Description:''' There are just over 3000 active characters in the game currently likely counting a significant percentage of alts and zergs. Shrinking the map by eliminating the outer first two rings of suburbs would increase the amount of interactions between the remaining characters. This shrink could be increased or decreased depending on future changes to the playerbase. |
| Please let me know what you think.
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| |} | | |} |
| ====Discussion (Shovel, Revised)==== | | ====Discussion (Shrink the map)==== |
| What would you put the encumbrance as? I'm all for more unconventional weapons though.. Oh and make it able to beak like the pool cue because of it's length.{{User:Mazu/sig}} 11:02, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
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| <br> Oh, I was thinking 6 to 8%, but I want to know if that would be to much or too little. Also, I was looking for this to be a long-term weapon like the axe, but breaking could be added as some more balance. --[[User:Gavriil|Gavriil]] 19:48, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :would certainly be good to have super-rare items scattered around --{{User:Lady Clitoria/Sig}} 22:20, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
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| ===Encumbrance + Freerunning=== | | ===Action Points=== |
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| |'''Timestamp:''' --[[User:Anachomutualist|Anarchomutualist]] <sub>[[User:Anachomutualist/Journal|says:]]</sub> <sup>The state is war, ⓐnarchy is order.</sup> 03:40, 18 March 2011 (UTC) | | |'''Timestamp:''' [[User:Wolldog1]] 10:07, 26 July 26, 2022 |
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| |'''Type:''' Mechanic | | |'''Type:''' Action Points Increase Regeneration Rate |
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| |'''Scope:''' [[Free running]] | | |'''Scope:''' Everyone |
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| |'''Description:''' <span style="text-decoration:line-through;">Once a player goes above 75% encumbrance</span> If a player is holding "heavy equipment" ([[Christmas Trees]], [[Generators]], [[Museum pieces]]), free running has a chance of failure. (Failure would be akin to jumping into a ruin - land in the street and lose 5 HP.) If encumbrance is <50%, then the chance is 5%. If encumbrance is >50%, then the chance is 10%. The message for a failed freerun would be {{udspan|The weight of your equipment bears down on you, and you fall into the street.}} | | |'''Description:''' Due to the passage of time with mobile games and other real time action games without restriction, I think that we should address the action points system of the game. This game can only realistically be played for 5 minutes a day. So it's not really a seller for new blood. If we want to see this game survive it needs to evolve into something more exciting than 5 minutes. My suggestion is double the regeneration rate to improve activity. I love this game. I want to play it more. And the die hard fans I'm sure feel the same. More will go on in a day, sure. But that's for both sides. We're ready for it. Let's get this game moving again. We need this. |
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| The logic here is that it becomes more difficult to perform parkour when you're carrying portable generators and shotguns. Consider this a "lite" version of Zombie Lord's suggestions.
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| |} | | |} |
| ====Discussion (Encumbrance + Freerunning)==== | | ====Discussion (Action Points)==== |
| I can't find a dupe anywhere, so you're clear in that department. However, I do recall that a few players of previous generations (like mid-2006 early 2007) considered "Freerunning" to be a system of bridges. But that aside, I would probably change this just a little. Perhaps a set percentage of failing to freerun? --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 03:51, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
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| But carrying three shotguns and five generators while leaping between rooftops is both believable and balanced! You can't change it! You're just trying to help those evil, smelly, zombie things, when they already control the entire city! blaeeegh!!!!11 --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 03:58, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
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| Makes sense from a realistic standpoint, but this is a game, we should be aiming at making it more fun. Does this make the game more fun? I can't see how. - [[User:Whitehouse]] 11:55, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :^This. It would also make it extremely hard to run bounty hunters (who need a lot of guns and ammo and one genniefuel at the same time to do their thing at all). --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 12:02, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
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| Anything that makes freerunning less uber than it is can only be a good thing. Oh and I am one of those who don't see freerunning as being Parkour.... It seems more likely to represent breaking and entry combined with a bit of rooftop/fire escape athletics to me. --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 11:59, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :I'm more a fan of the "A wizard did it" explanation. --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 12:02, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
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| ::[[Image:ZLComic002.png|50px]] --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 01:00, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
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| The last time I suggested this the Survivors all cried at the thought of losing their ability to fly like Superman with 1000 pounds of shit on their back.{{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>13:44 18 March 2011(UTC)</tt>
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| This would be realistic, but when it comes to a game, it doesn't really matter. This wouldn't change much, just make the game more of a chore and the playerbase is dying enough as it is. If it was implemented earlygame, sure. But those who don't like this will quit, so a chunk of the playerbase gone. We don't need that. The survivors use the hand of Kevan to free run, as you've shown Zombie Lord XD {{User:Shadok/sig}} 03:03, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
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| Well maybe an extra light version. You only have a chance of failure if your carrying excessively large objects. Such as Christmas Trees, Generators, Museum pieces, etc. In this form it is not nearly as tedious as having it above 75% encumbrance and this could possibly be a stepping stone to the original suggestion. Ease the players into it while still making free running more balanced.. {{User:Mazu/sig}} 01:55, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
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| I wouldn't even be opposed to someone carrying a bunch of heavy equipment having a 2 AP per square penalty for movement. This would apply to zombies as well, as they still have the same junk in their undead pockets. That, or to stick to free-running only, make it a 2 AP task to free run if you are <75% encumbered but you always succeed, just because it takes a little bit more out of you. --[[User:Gerald Studabaker|Gerald Studabaker]] 05:38, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :I'd support this idea as well. How ever I wouldn't apply it to zombies since they are stronger than us. An interesting idea would be if you die you drop all large objects (genny, museum piece, etc) just a thought though.{{User:Mazu/sig}} 10:28, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
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| ::The last time I suggested this the Survivors all cried at the thought of losing their ability to carry 1000 pounds of shit on their back while dead. Also everyone knows zombies have a use for 4 or 5 gennies.{{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>03:01 22 March 2011(UTC)</tt>
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| | | ===Drone=== |
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| ===Syringe Woes=== | |
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| |'''Timestamp:''' [[User:Gerald Studabaker|Gerald Studabaker]] 01:50, 8 March 2011 (UTC) | | |'''Timestamp:''' [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:10, 23 July 2022 (UTC) |
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| |'''Type:''' Considering combat revives or reviving people in ruined NTs helps overpower syringes as is, it doesn't really make sense that a zombie would hold perfectly still while someone tries to jab a needle in its neck. When it is possible for a zombie to miss an attack on a completely stationary makeshift generator, one would think it should be possible for there to be a possibility of missing a moving target that is trying to kill you with such an intimately accurate attack. | | |'''Type:''' Survivor Item |
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| |'''Scope:''' Considering that recent changes to humans make it a breeze to get resources more easily, syringes are practically given away now, so it is too easy to clear a ruined building with a couple of syringes and 20 AP. This way, even with a really high percentage like 70-75% success rates, humans would occasionally miss and it would keep the syringes from being so overpowered. | | |'''Scope:''' Survivors |
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| |'''Description:''' Zombies are getting wise to being revived. In order to keep on a mission for brains, they are learning to dodge attempts to be revived. Using a syringe now has a 25% chance of missing its target outright and having it knocked out of your hand. You still lose the syringe and expend the 10 AP escaping the zombie's thirst for your brains. | | |'''Description:''' Portable drone, found in mall tech stores, which are pointless as we all know. Encumbrance is 10%. When activated for 15ap they provide an image of a 10x10 grid centred on the survivor, showing the current outside status of all blocks including zombies, survivors and dead bodies. Like DNA scanners, Drones are multi use. |
| |} | | |} |
| ====Discussion (Syringe Woes)==== | | ====Discussion (Drone)==== |
| Well, I agree that combat revives are pretty op. I think this might work better as a skill zombies can pick up. Something down the chain of skills which make it more difficult to get reved anyway. I have been playing a zombie for years now, and combat revives are the biggest thorn in the side of attacks. They are way too game changing, and players who want to stay as zombies should have more skills to make it so. --[[User:Zarak Goldleaf|Zarak Goldleaf]] 02:06, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
| | Would there be a message displayed to the players to the effect of "there's a drone buzzing overhead", similar to a flare? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:19, 24 July 2022 (UTC) |
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| If you don't want to get revived, get [[Brain Rot|rotted]]. Simples. {{User:Chief Seagull/Sig}} 14:08, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
| | ===Backpack=== |
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| What recent changes to humans? --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 14:14, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
| | |'''Timestamp:''' [[User:Wild Crazy|Wild Crazy]] ([[User talk:Wild Crazy|talk]]) 20:55, 20 September 2021 (UTC) |
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| It's called brainrot. Next. --[[Image:Umbrella-White.png|12px]][[User:MisterGame|<span style= "color: maroon; background-color: white">'''''Thadeous Oakley''''']][[Image:Umbrella-White.png|12px]]</span> [[User_Talk:MisterGame|<span style= "color: black; background-color: white">'''''Talk''''']]</span> 14:19, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
| | |'''Type:''' New item |
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| Tie something like this to a sub-skill of brain rot. That way it still has practical zombie use for NT sieges whilst appeasing the "dur brain rot stop combat revives" crowd at the same time. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 16:42, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
| | |'''Scope:''' Survivors |
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| | |'''Description:''' This will be a new item found in schools with a 2% find rate and sports stores with a 4% find rate. The low numbers are because, like a flak jacket, once you find it you have it forever. It increases you encumbrance by 30%. However, you can't use an item that is in your backpack until you remove it from the backpack. It costs one AP to add an item to your backpack and one AP to remove an item. An item affects your regular encumbrance until added to the backpack. Items such as GPS, radios, cell phones, and flak jacket do not work when in your backpack. Items in your backpack will not be shown in your inventory, but the backpack itself will be shown in your inventory. There will be a drop box next to the word backpack that shows all the items inside. When you click on an item in that drop box, it removes it from your backpack (1 AP). |
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| 10AP for missing? Seems too high. - [[User:Whitehouse]] 18:16, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
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| New skill. Under Brain Rot. If you are in a powered NT, and someone tries to revive you, there is a 50% chance of failure. That way, one guy with a genny and fuel can't clear out five zombies in one go. --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 18:42, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
| | Q: Wouldn't this buff survivors, since they can carry more bullets and kill more zombies? |
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| It is true that the Syringe is the most cost effective, efficient, and powerful weapon in the game. Stupidly so. As such it should be treated as a weapon. I support making it a 1 AP cost to use, but 10% chance to hit weapon. Agreed, Zombies would not passively accept this procedure. I don't expect Kevan to stop pampering the Survivors anytime soon though.{{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>19:27 8 March 2011(UTC)</tt>
| | A: Since it costs an AP to add and remove an item, it wastes a lot of AP to put bullet clips in your backpack if you are planning on using them right away. |
| :Uh, no. They're tools. Not under Brain Rot, either. People who have Brain Rot hardly get needled anyway. Perhaps a prerequisite of BR, not sure if that's work. But there's still more about this skill to be hammered out: how much AP would it cost if you miss? and would it waste a needle? --[[User:Espemon333|Espemon333]] 00:17, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :10%? Too low. After all, it's a medical procedure done by trained professionals. BTW, what about [[Mrh Cows|these guys]]? ----[[User:Anachomutualist|Anarchomutualist]] <sub>[[User:Anachomutualist/Journal|says:]]</sub> <sup>The state is war, ⓐnarchy is order.</sup> 01:26, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
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| ::They don't count. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 01:50, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
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| ::10%. So 1 in 10. So 10 AP average. So, same as now minus the automatic hit and insane speed. As for the Mrh Cows, the revive cycle is already too cheap and easy. I'd go farther, it should cost the reviving body extra AP to stand. 6 to 10 AP at least. Spread the cost around. Makes it so those revive alt zergs that Survivors love so much don't get to absorb all the cost.{{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>02:26 9 March 2011(UTC)</tt>
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| Well 10% would be too low if we're making it an attack. They do have to search for syringes just like ammo and they at least get 65% with ammo, so if we're making a syringe a stock attack, I would say 5 ap instead of 10, and you get a 65-70% chance. I actually like the idea of it being a sub-skill of someone that already has brain rot. The idea is you despise resurrection so much that you are adept at dodging even in a powered NT. As per the other person's question, the recent changes are that humans can just hang out in a building and get additional searches so long as they don't die, so finding these automatic-success syringes is easier, whereas a brain rot zombie trying to hold an NT is just as prone as a level 1 zed is. This severely interferes with my ability to eat brains.--[[User:Gerald Studabaker|Gerald Studabaker]] 04:23, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :[[User:Rosslessness/Safehouse_Hatred|Read this]]. Scout Safehouse is a worthless skill. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 10:27, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
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| ::less than worthless ~ it's total shit ~ easy to hide tho --{{User:Lady Clitoria/Sig}} 10:55, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
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| If you're hanging out in a powered NT and get combat revived, that's your fault for not destroying the generator. Kevan's not "catering to survivors" by allowing Combat Revives. Zombies seem to forget that they can kill a survivor in a much more AP efficient manner than any other player in the game. Now, back too the skill, howsabout we try this: Survivors with NT Employment have a 50% chance of hitting with a revive. Lab Experience upgrades you to a 75%, then another skill, like, 'Advanced Lab Experience' or something allows you a 90% chance to hit with a revive. --[[User:Espemon333|Espemon333]] 23:36, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
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| EDIT: If you miss, it wasted 1 AP and a needle.
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| :Bullshit. You can argue semantics all you want about the CR not "killing" the player, but the end result is the same: ''The player is being taken out of play''. A single zombie can take 1 fully healed Survivor out of play in 50 button presses or so. With the same 50 AP a Survivor can take 5 Zombies out of play with 5 button presses in a matter of seconds. Who's more efficient again? In most instances a single Survivor is generally about 3 times more efficient than a single Zombie. Which is bad enough, but when it comes to Combat Revives it gets into the realm of utter stupidity. So of course Survivors cry and whine any time someone suggests they give up on their game of kick the cripple.{{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>14:31 18 March 2011(UTC)</tt>
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| I think the point of this isn't that zombies are hanging out in powered NT's, but more that a group of Zombies who have captured an NT and smashed the genny and ruined it, can easily be destroyed by a few guys with some fuel, a generator, and a few of syringes. This skill might be unnecessary if you just remove generators in a ruined building providing power for revives.--[[User:Zarak Goldleaf|Zarak Goldleaf]] 03:59, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
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| | Q: If it wastes AP, what is the point? |
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| What's with the hate on combat revives? I find them to be a crucial part of practicing [[Dual Nature]]. ----[[User:Anachomutualist|Anarchomutualist]] <sub>[[User:Anachomutualist/Journal|says:]]</sub> <sup>The state is war, ⓐnarchy is order.</sup> 01:32, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
| | A: It will be useful if you want to carry around an extra stash of items, such as FAKs and Revivification Syringes, or if you are going far away from any resource buildings and need some extra supplies. |
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| Zarak is exactly right. It isn't that zombies just leave generators around, but even if they did, the building is entirely ruined and ransacked. You shouldn't be able to just pop in a genny and easy-peasy revive zombies while it is still ruined. I mean, why bother ruining any building at all if you can just ignore the supposed drawbacks of them? --[[User:Gerald Studabaker|Gerald Studabaker]] 05:21, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
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| I'm undecided whether I like this suggestion. In it's current for I'll say no. Maybe if developed I'll have a better opionion. I guess the only feedback I have right now is to point out that there currently exists a mechanic that affects the to-hit percentage of needles. [[Revivification#Conditions_Affecting_Revivification|Revivification]] inside a [[Dark]] building has a 50% success rate. Failed attempts cost 1AP but the needle is not lost. You can build off that, I suppose. {{User:Vapor/sig}} <sub>05:47, 11 March 2011</sub>
| | Please give your thoughts. |
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| Rotter revives during NT attacks are fairly rare but only because there is only a small chance that anyone inside is awake and active when you break in. More frequently what happens is that you only get in with enough AP to groan and some smart ass jabs you before help can arrive.The bigger problem is indeed that, even ruined, a powered NT means my poor rotter can be dragged back to the land of the mouth breathers while resting up after the brawl--[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 17:13, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
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| The trouble with this suggestion is that it makes revive points impractical, since it doesn't distinguish between rotters who are trying to stay dead and survivors who want to return to life. You're doubling the AP costs for all the RPs around Malton, just to get rid of the rare occurrence of a survivor carrying a generator, fuel, enough syringes to clear the building, and enough AP to do so. In any case, if you're that desperate to deny an NT to the survivors, there's a simple solution: Put 4-5 zeds inside the building, and there's no way a lone reviver can empty the building, repair, and barricade all at once. --[[User:Beleester|Beleester]] 04:14, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :How about a skill under Brain Rot called "Resistance," that would allow to to choose to stay dead. ----[[User:Anachomutualist|Anarchomutualist]] <sub>[[User:Anachomutualist/Journal|says:]]</sub> <sup>The state is war, ⓐnarchy is order.</sup> 20:01, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
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| ::Uh, no. Both the zombie and the survivor in me are telling me that this is a bad idea. Just stick with Brain Rot, m'kay? --[[User:Espemon333|Espemon333]] 20:46, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :::The zombie in me says "yes please!" I do not want to be revived while sieging an NT and buying the Rot was supposed to prevent just that. Sadly along came an update and flushed that all away. Combat revives are great if you want to play dual nature but for most dedicated rotters they are an un asked for pain in the ass that take away fun. Lets have someway to at least defend against the 1 shot kill that is zombie rape via syringe :( --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 16:56, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
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| I'm a MOB zombie and I've been revived and thrown out the door. You know what I did? I got up, walked back through their amazing VSB cades and jumped out the window. IT COST ME AN EPIC 4 AP to rejoin my side. It cost the SURVIVOR about 15AP to find and use that needle. This worked out better than a headshot. This seems more like it's just a whine from someone who decided that camping in an NT was a smart idea. The general idea is that if you camp the building, then you KNOW that odds are, you will be CRed. It's the ONLY way survivors can get us out of the building. Play one for a week or so and try clear NTs with 3 or more zombies, especially when those zombies are zerging. There's no way for them to do it with a pistol or shotgun, not without help. Remember, a dead survivor can't turn back to their side, a revived zombie CAN. The game HAS to help the survivors. Otherwise, the zombies would just kill them all and we'd have nothing left to eat.
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| I'm sorry if this seems overly aggressive, but I've watched this suggestion grow and it seems like it's not considering the survivor side of things, nor remembering that needles are MEANT to be used offensively as well as defensively. So just get up and let a bahbah eat you or get up and do some base jumping without the parachute. It's not that hard. Now, I await the rage at me for daring to go against the BARHAH -.- {{User:Shadok/sig}} 00:52, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :Guess you weren't around for [[The Dead]]. Even they couldn't do what you're suggesting. I think you underestimate the power of Dirtnaping, CRAP, Pay it Forward policies, etc. CRing is the most efficient and overpowered weapon in the game as far as taking players out of play on one side. Nothing else even approaches it. I know we'd all hate for Survivors to actually have to work at something, but you know. Besides, if it gets bad for Survivors Kevan will just up the Syringe search rate to 90% and lower cade building failure rate to roughly Lighty across the board for all levels, like he did when The Dead were at their height.{{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>01:46 19 March 2011(UTC)</tt>
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| ::May I ask what those policies do to aid your point? Those are all pro-revival policies, for the sake of reviving those who WANT reviving. They do not affect rotters at all. The only one which affects pro-zombies of those is CRAP, and that one fails more often than not with rotters. No, I was not around for [[The Dead]] and perhaps it's a good thing. I'm looking at things as they are now, not grudging against what happened in the past. Syringe rates aren't 90%, I've had a survivor search for 40AP and turn up nothing but a few GPS and a DNA extractor. Survivors can fail to barricade at any level with zombies in the building (try barricade a building with two zombies in it). If this suggestion said "Rotters can resist needles, but in exchange, survivors now can absorb the effects of the necrotech syringes, allowing them to inject themselves prior to death and rise again as survivors", it would be killed with fire. But that's the only way to balance it out. Because Necrotech buildings would be impossible to be recaptured by survivors. Endgame. I play both sides, so if you can convince me that my zombie is hard done by, then I'd happily support this. But right now, I cannot see how this would make the game any better. {{User:Shadok/sig}} 03:00, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :::Well you missed out then, because it was the only time being a Survivor was fun or challenging. There is no endgame scenario. You do know that Ruined NT's can be searched right? There are more than enough Revive Alt Zergs scattered around the city Dirtnapping with a full compliment of Syringes, trust me. My point is that revival is so cheap and easy that death basically means nothing. Survivors obviously don't need the ability to inject themselves prior to death, but something does need to be done about the cost of life and death in this game. And no, I don't buy into needles being designed for a dual role as offensive and defensive weapons. I don't credit Keven with that sort of foresight or thought when it comes to Urban Dead. And this jazz about never being able to reclaim an NT is just wrong. You know how many NT's there are in this city? And how many Zombies? Not going to happen. Even the Dead couldn't have done it even without Kevan saving the Survivors for them. If a horde is coming or camping in an NT near you and you just sit there trying to hold it or reclaim it, you're not being a "Survivor"...you're being "A Fucking Idiot". MOVE to another NT. It's not complicated.
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| :::As I say, death is meaningless. If the dead Pro-Survivor is actually an honest player and waits for a real revive and through some miracle can't get one he can always just go a life-cultisting. Get enough dead Pro-Survivors together and you can get an NT cleared pretty quick with a little zombie on zombie violence. Same way the zombies got the NT in the first place, so suck it up and get your hands dirty.{{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>03:19 19 March 2011(UTC)</tt>
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| ===Rage in Malton===
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| {|
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| |'''Timestamp:''' {{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 15:38, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
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| |'''Type:''' "New" Mechanic
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| |'''Scope:''' Newbs outside of Borehamwood (whether corpses or zombiefied)
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| |'''Description:''' The recent wave of whining about the game being dying and cycling some "current" suggestions got me thinking about ways to make the game more newb-friendly.<br><br>Borehamwood had a neat little mechanic called '''[[Borehamwood#Skills|Rage]]''', which allows a zombie who a.) hasn't [[Lurching Gait]] and b.) is in the presence of a harman to gain that skill instantly without any XP cost.<br><br>Applying it to Malton would make it a good bit easier for newbs (for who being a zombie is hard, whether voluntarily or by being killed), and it would also give some incentive to new dyed-in-the-wool pro-survivor types to follow feeding groans who otherwise would never consider to play a zombie.<br><br>As that mechanic already exists for another map, it should be easy-peasy to implement.
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| ====Discussion (Rage in Malton)==== | | ====Discussion (Backpack)==== |
| Could probably even be beefed up by adding [[Ankle Grab]] and/or [[Vigour Mortis]] to the Rage grab bag, but that might be a bit extreme. --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 15:41, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
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| Note to the dupe faction on DS: There were also [[Suggestion:20090609 Gameplay Change - Stand Up|two]] [[Suggestion:20070817 Vigor Mortis upgrade: 5 AP to stand|other]] suggestions about softening the effect of dying, but I think they are sufficiently different from this one, especially as this idea is built around an existing mechanic from another map. --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 15:41, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :To play devils advocate; Helps zergers. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 15:52, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
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| ::So does everything useful. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 17:58, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :::i just like saying the word "poop" it makes me smile.--<small><div style="display: inline-block; height: 14px; width: 18px; overflow: hidden; vertical-align: text-bottom;">[[User:Sexualharrison|<span style="position: absolute; display: block; font-size: 0px; height: 14px; width: 18px;"> </span>]][[Image:Boobs.sh.siggie.gif|18px]]</div> [[User talk:Sexualharrison|<span style="color:Red">bitch</span>]] 19:28 7 March 2011 (UTC)</small>
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| ::::''Everything'' that benefits newbs benefits zergers ''too''. That being said, I see relatively little abuse potential for zergers. Lurching Gait only saves APs, which is irrelevant for zergers (who can always make more alts to gain more AP). Getting to the grab bag, Ankle Grab is also solely an AP saver, while Vigour Mortis is useless for zergers: Either they have it already (zombie zergers), or it is of little use for them (harman zergers). --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 22:04, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :::::Lurching Gait does not save APs. Lurching Gait saves AP. --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 02:55, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :But still, street treats are pretty rare. ----[[User:Anachomutualist|Anarchomutualist]] <sub>[[User:Anachomutualist/Journal|says:]]</sub> <sup>The state is war, ⓐnarchy is order.</sup> 21:53, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
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| ::Don't have to be street treats (although they are certainly the easiest for MoL-impaired newbs). New zombies [[Spawning#Corpse|spawn]] close to a unmuffled feeding groan and can immediately put this to good use, while dead harmanz can follow feeding groans while they are zombiefied and outside. --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 22:04, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
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| You know what? I actually like this idea! However, if we do add Ankle Grab and VM, let's make it more of a 'pick one' than a 'here, take 'em all!' or a 'ya get a random one!' kinda thing. Maybe, instead of Ankle Grab, we put in MoL. Just a thought. --[[User:Espemon333|Espemon333]] 00:12, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
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| On second thought, I'd limit it to just Lurching Gait without the other two skills. Not because I don't think that it be worth it for the sake of the newbs (I think so), but rather to cut down on potential "ZOMG Zmobies are so overpowered" Against votes by trenchies. Plus, it increases the chances of this getting implemented, since Kevan just needs to swipe the code from Boredomwood. --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 18:10, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
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| [[Spawning#Zombies|Starting tips]] and [[Spawning#Tips_upon_first_class_change|tips at first change harman => zambah]] should probably also be expanded when this gets implemented. Starting tip should probably be put between bullet 2 and 3, since it is tied to feeding groans, and to increase the chance of newbs actually reading it. As for tips at first class change, I'm clueless for positioning. Proposals by anyone good at wording? --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 18:10, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :I'm not good at wording, but after nearly a week, I better still go ahead. Starting tip:
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| :*You should listen for the feeding calls of other zombies to find fresh meat, and look for survivors who have been dragged out onto the streets by other zombies.
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| :*'''When you run into your first survivor, you should {{button|Rage}} to make getting around easier.'''
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| :*It's generally a good idea to end your day in a group of other undead - a lone straggler is a fairly easy target for a passing zombie hunter or military cleanup squad.
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| :Class change tip: "Your character has become a zombie - although you can no longer speak or use your equipment, and will take 2AP to walk from block to block, a new and powerful skill tree has become available to you. You can earn experience points by attacking and killing survivors, and smashing at barricades and machinery installed in buildings. '''You can also lessen the 2AP cost to walk from block to block by letting loose your {{button|Rage}} in the presence of a survivor.''' The feeding groans you've been hearing as a survivor are now a valuable resource for finding vulnerable safehouses." --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 14:45, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
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| See [[Suggestions Dos and Do Nots#Balance]]: "Don't Give it Away." A free skill is equal to 100 free xp, and just being in the same square as a survivor is pretty close to a zero-risk situation.--[[User:Father Thompson|<span style="color: Black">FT</span>]] 21:43, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :Don't forget that this has already been implemented in Borehamwood, and Street Treats are pretty rare. I'm gonna say just Lurching Gait as well. --[[User:Espemon333|Espemon333]] 20:53, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
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| ::They are in BOREHAMWOOD. In Malton, street treats are NOT rare. I've actually had to pass up street treats on my zombie in order to still have AP when I get to the latest strike. And my survivor could easily consume all his 'kits healing the injured outside. That's not even including the zombies who would sit at RPs, get revived, then go and walk around outside to exploit this to give free LG to bahbahs. This idea is honestly...no. Zergable and exploitable to the highest degree. {{User:Shadok/sig}} 21:00, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
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| :::Exactly: Borehamwood isn't Malton. You know that permadeath thing? And how "headshots kill zombies forever" was removed? Survivors were likely to become a scarce commodity very quickly, while the zombie population would only diminish as players quit playing. Zombies would have been expected to do much more walking around to find good targets, and also to have a slower rate of xp gain because of target scarcity. Giving them a free skill- particularly the one that makes all that wandering around they'll need to do less AP intensive- makes a lot of sense. It's not designed to be an ongoing, back-and forth PvP experience, though, it's a temporary challenge map, and just because there were novel rules there doesn't mean they'll work well in Malton. That said, you can of course suggest it if you want- I'll just vote kill. In terms of corrections you should make before suggesting, there's this bit: "who a.) hasn't Lurching Gait and b.) is in the presence of a harman." You should rewrite that to something more like "who hasn't acquired the Lurching Gait skill, and is in the presence of a harman." This: "(for who being " should be "for whom." And "who otherwise would never consider to play a zombie." should be more like "would never consider playing as a zombie."--[[User:Father Thompson|<span style="color: Black">FT</span>]] 14:19, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
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| ::::Yeah, Rage can be abused by zergers. But as I said above, it's probably one of the least interesting goodies for zergers since it only saves AP (which are largely irrelevant to zergers, since they can have as many as they can run alts). Who this really helps though are newbs, which should be a primary interest of us given the dying state of the game and the harshness of the game towards low-levels. - As for wording changes, duly noted. I'd clean up informal slang as harman anyway when that moves from DS to the actual suggestion system. --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 14:45, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
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| ==Suggestions up for voting==
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| The following are suggestions that were developed here but have since gone to voting. The discussions that were taking place here have been moved to the pages linked below.
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