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| <noinclude>{{Developing Suggestions Intro}}</noinclude> | | <noinclude>{{Developing Suggestions Intro}}</noinclude> |
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| =Suggestions=
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| ===Increased Visibility of Adjacent or Viewed Billboards via Mouseover Text=== | | ===Ignore based on Radio Broadcast=== |
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| |'''Timestamp:''' [[User:PyroSadist|PyroSadist]] ([[User talk:PyroSadist|talk]]) 23:04, 30 November 2015 (UTC) | | |'''Timestamp:''' [[User:Khwud|Khwud]] ([[User talk:Khwud|talk]]) 17:27, 8 July 2024 (UTC) |
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| |'''Type:''' Change to Player Perception relating to Billboards | | |'''Type:''' UI enhancement |
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| |'''Scope:''' All Players' Perceptions | | |'''Scope:''' Interface |
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| |'''Description:''' This is a suggestion to increase the potential usefulness (or perceived turf value) of Billboards. While this change will be noticed by zombies, the effects may be regarded by survivors with more interest. | | |'''Description:''' Allow 'ignore' from radio broadcasts; users are hiding behind their anonymity to allow them to broadcast things that would broadly trigger them to be ignored, if their user ID was visible. Adding their name, or an auto-generated call-sign (it is for a radio, after all) or something so that they could be blocked based on their broadcasts would help user experience. In addition, and broadcasts that get more than a threshold number could get tagged for review, and the user potentially having their (in-game) ham-license revoked. |
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| Any time a block with a Billboard is adjacent to the player's current location (or visible via binoculars), the graffiti on the Billboard (and on the Billboard only) will be displayed in a mouseover text box if the player holds the mouse over the block in which the Billboard exists. The area over which the mouseover appears should NOT be the area which the player clicks on to move to an adjacent block--it should, instead, be the space that surrounds that block so that errors made while navigating are reduced.
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| Billboards cannot currently be seen from adjacent blocks whether inside or outside of a building. Likewise, binoculars do not currently aid in seeing Billboards. This change would allow Billboards to be seen from inside adjacent Buildings, any adjacent block regardless of type, and when using binoculars in a tall building or outside (so long as the block that the Billboard occupies is displayed).
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| This increased visibility of Billboards will do little to benefit survivors more than zombies; however, it may add an additional element of fun that promotes survivors fighting over a more valuable piece of turf that can potentially contain helpful information, taunts, or territorial claims. This text--being mouseover--may potentially serve to leave the screen uncluttered and may also be made toggleable if it provides interference with player navigation.
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| This change would NOT affect the AP necessary to tag a Billboard, but it would certainly make players more likely to tag Billboards if they *could* be seen more easily. Additionally, survivors would still have to walk out onto the street (or rare car park) to tag Billboards. Billboards would still remain resistant from being defiled by zombies.
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| ADDITIONALLY, like groans and flares, this could potentially be toggleable (and, therefore, potentially disabled) in ''Game Settings'' so as to unburden those who don't read normal graffiti anyway.
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| |} | | |} |
| | | ====Discussion (Ignore based on Radio Broadcast)==== |
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| ===Combat-flare effects beyond physical damage (Summarised rejig of prior suggestion)=== | | ===Shrink the map=== |
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| |'''Timestamp:''' [[User:Breadknife Bill|Breadknife Bill]] ([[User talk:Breadknife Bill|talk]]) 14:47, 18 November 2015 (UTC) | | |'''Timestamp:''' --[[User:Uroguy|Uroguy]]<sup>[[Zookeepers|TMZ]]</sup> 16:28, 14 February 2023 (UTC) |
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| |'''Type:''' Combat change | | |'''Type:''' Map change |
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| |'''Scope:''' Player perception | | |'''Scope:''' Everyone |
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| |'''Description:''' This is a suggestion to add to the combat and notional functionality of flares to reflect expectations. It need not alter their other uses, nor standard damage and accuracy rates, although might well be accompanied by some minor tweaking given the possible tactical disadvantages. | | |'''Description:''' There are just over 3000 active characters in the game currently likely counting a significant percentage of alts and zergs. Shrinking the map by eliminating the outer first two rings of suburbs would increase the amount of interactions between the remaining characters. This shrink could be increased or decreased depending on future changes to the playerbase. |
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| The flare-shot should be noticed. Currently only the firer sees each attempt (of ''any'' attack) they make, and the target of a combat only for each valid hit. Not that anyone 'notices' the audible bang of any firearm or the swish of the axe, admitedly, but the light of a distant signal-flare is seen, in game, and so why not of the flare fired (even in vain) against oneself in a darkened building?
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| Secondarily, the closeness ought to be potentially blinding. There already exists (in whatever coded form) a system of visibility. Unlit 'dark'-type buildings remove helath information and Halloween fogs traditonally obscure neighbouring blocks when outside. The same code might be tapped into for our new purposes, or else a new system of rational tests (and information given) added. Five persons stand within this bank vault, but are they survivors, temporarily inactive zombies or a mix?
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| Thus consider either or both of the following:
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| #Additional notification for external combat-flares (as per current signal-flares, but with a different form of the message) and internal combat-flares (certainly in dark buildings, probably in unlit ones, ''perhaps'' where there's already generator-lighting). Actual location might weight this possibility. The target, even when missed, should always notice, but Game Preferences for Flares might be made to suppress such 'spam' in all other cases.
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| #Temporary blinding(/obscuring) effects on players. A dice-roll result probably modified by location (external/internal by building type), the presence of powered-lights and the character's role in the combat (flare-struck individual vs flare-firer vs bystander). Magnitude of effect could be different (more so for a flare let off in a darkened cinema than a lit mall). The wearing off of the effect (in stages or completely) is in a given number of AP-replenishment ticks. Zombie smell-skills would be unaffected, and may help offset vision loss (for survivors also?).
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| A fuller description of multiple speculative effects and mechanics and can be found in [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Developing_Suggestions&oldid=2260049#Flares_as_more_than_physical_damage. the historic Wiki entry] but are not repeated here.
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| |} | | |} |
| ====Discussion (Combat-flare effects beyond physical damage (Summarised rejig of prior suggestion))==== | | ====Discussion (Shrink the map)==== |
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| ===Block the Doors:Addition to Barricade Interference change=== | | ===Action Points=== |
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| |'''Timestamp:''' [[User:JoshCz|JoshCz]] ([[User talk:JoshCz|talk]]) 16:12, 23 September 2015 (UTC) | | |'''Timestamp:''' [[User:Wolldog1]] 10:07, 26 July 26, 2022 |
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| |'''Type:''' Zombie Skill | | |'''Type:''' Action Points Increase Regeneration Rate |
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| |'''Scope:''' Zombies | | |'''Scope:''' Everyone |
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| |'''Description:''' If barricade interference is fixed so that it is a ratio between survivors and zombies, zombies will also get the chance to use their AP to block the doors, artificially increasing the ratio between humans and zombies. When a zombie is in a building and has 10-15AP (not how much AP, but the option goes away without the necessary AP) They can actively protect the barricade from being put up until they are killed or take another action. This of course is a trade-off. Rather than using AP to kill survivors they can make it harder for survivors to put up barricades, letting more zs with more AP into the building. When one of the zombies successfully prevents a survivor from barricading, a link to their profile (a highlighted zombie gets in your way) is shown, allowing the survivor to kill that zombie and restore the balance of the barricade interference. This would also make combat more effective costing a zombie more AP for being a better meatshield. | | |'''Description:''' Due to the passage of time with mobile games and other real time action games without restriction, I think that we should address the action points system of the game. This game can only realistically be played for 5 minutes a day. So it's not really a seller for new blood. If we want to see this game survive it needs to evolve into something more exciting than 5 minutes. My suggestion is double the regeneration rate to improve activity. I love this game. I want to play it more. And the die hard fans I'm sure feel the same. More will go on in a day, sure. But that's for both sides. We're ready for it. Let's get this game moving again. We need this. |
| |} | | |} |
| ====Discussion (Block the Doors:Addition to Barricade Interference change)==== | | ====Discussion (Action Points)==== |
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| ===Semi-comprehensive Survivor balancing=== | | ===Drone=== |
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| |'''Timestamp:''' <sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub><sup>[[CLZA|<span style="color: lightgrey">CLZA</span>]]</sup> 02:00, 17 September 2015 (UTC) | | |'''Timestamp:''' [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:10, 23 July 2022 (UTC) |
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| |'''Type:''' Survivor related | | |'''Type:''' Survivor Item |
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| |'''Scope:''' Survivors and zombies | | |'''Scope:''' Survivors |
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| |'''Description:''' Much as the zombie balancing but fixing some survivor issues. | | |'''Description:''' Portable drone, found in mall tech stores, which are pointless as we all know. Encumbrance is 10%. When activated for 15ap they provide an image of a 10x10 grid centred on the survivor, showing the current outside status of all blocks including zombies, survivors and dead bodies. Like DNA scanners, Drones are multi use. |
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| #All players start with a radio and mobile phone in addition to current items. Players lacking these items are given them.
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| #External military reports broadcast across all channels, but only show on the lowest number channel the player is using in the case of multiple radios.
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| #An EMR is produced for 2 suburbs per day. making a 50 day cycle.
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| #Mobile phones cost 0 AP to use. Additionally phones would indicate the success or failure for any message, rather than delayed delivery. The message would be stored until the user is online. It would be possible to get a message when offline, lose coverage, and still access that message. The success or failure is based on conditions at the time the message is sent.
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| #Mobile phone masts provide service to the surrounding 8 suburbs. Any additional phone masts just provide additional/duplicate coverage.
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| #Barricade interference is based on a ratio of zombies to survivors in the building/square. Interference begins with 1/2 the survivor population. It increases linearly until reaching 1:2 in favor of zombies, at which point additional zombies provide little increase. Let's say: at 2:1 it's 30%, at 1:1 it's 60%, at 1:2 it's 90%; interference. I certainly wouldn't oppose changing those numbers.
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| #Barricade interference does not apply to using a length of pipe from the inventory to create loosely barricaded. Additionally, pipe is added to the mall hardware stores. Failed attempts to use pipe to barricade result in the loss of the item from inventory.
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| #A message is displayed at log-in and after each action a survivor takes in a building with no barricades (in large buildings it would only address the current square). The message would be similar to the “since your last turn” message. It would appear above the since your last turn message and say something like “This building is currently not barricaded.” This would ignore the door if present.
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| #The DNA extractor limit if a stack of zombies has been scanned already since their last action, where it only shows the first one. That is removed. The lack of XP for rescanning stays to avoid spamming a single zombie for XP.
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| #NecroNet Maps include all standing zombies within the scan area, whether scanned or not.
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| |} | | |} |
| ====Discussion (Semi-comprehensive Survivor balancing)==== | | ====Discussion (Drone)==== |
| I like the barricade interference tweaks. The rest seem like nice polish for the most part. Nice-to-haves, but not really game-changing in any significant way. I'm for them, since I think they'll smooth over some rough edges, but they're not something I'd push for. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:27, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
| | Would there be a message displayed to the players to the effect of "there's a drone buzzing overhead", similar to a flare? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:19, 24 July 2022 (UTC) |
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| I'm not a fan of some of these.
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| * #1, partly because I don't use a cell phone and partly because it discourages new players from play styles that operate without radios/phones.
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| * #2, on average EMR broadcasts 3-6 messages a day, which can really clutter up the feed of someone who doesn't want that.
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| * #3, this is actually a reduction in EMR rate? As of right now, about 80 (by my count) have had at least one report in the past month. Maybe make it formally cyclic, but with (say) 4 messages a day.
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| I like/am neutral towards
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| * #4 5 10, this seems logical (although again I don't use phones, and also don't use NecroNet, so can't really comment).
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| * #6 7 9, endorsed.
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| I'm confused by #8 — what exactly does this mean? Just another spot where it states the current barricade level? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 18:08, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
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| :Well, all the phone and radio aspects are meant to aid survivor communication more so for those without an interest in or knowledge of the metagame. The phone and radio could still be dropped, I'm just removing the search barrier to having them. I think if the phone didn't require finding and didn't use AP, it would be more widely used. The EMR broadcast can be cluttery, that is why I reduced it to 2 per day and it would fully cycle every 50 days. That seemed frequent enough to be useful without being ridiculous. I would have no problem with 4 broadcasts per day, but it would definitely need to only be on the EMR channel. A better option might be to have an opt-in button on radios for the EMR? I'm trying, in general, to make information gathering/sharing less painful for survivors with the radio and phone changes. Also, it basically makes getting EMRs free if you already use a radio.
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| :As for the no barricade message, it's really just to beat survivors over the head with the knowledge there is no barricade. It would be just another place stating current barricades, but only when there are no barricades. So, I'm hoping it would be more noticeable. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub><sup>[[CLZA|<span style="color: lightgrey">CLZA</span>]]</sup> 22:44, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
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| :A bit of clarification on the radio and phone, existing players without a radio and/or phone would get them when they were added to starting characters, so it would be a one-time event. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub><sup>[[CLZA|<span style="color: lightgrey">CLZA</span>]]</sup> 22:51, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
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| ::Have you (or others you know of) had an issue of not noticing if barricades are down? I've never noticed such an issue. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 18:01, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
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| :::Actually, I have on a few occasions noticed only after spending 20-30 AP searching. If there have been times I completely didn't notice, I don't know, as I would have not noticed. Given the odds though, I'd say yes. Normally it is when the zombies are already gone, but the cades are still down. It would also be good for survivors just traveling, who might not be checking the status of every building they pass. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub><sup>[[CLZA|<span style="color: lightgrey">CLZA</span>]]</sup> 01:28, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::Hm, I'll admit that I might be an exception, in that most buildings I enter I have an eye out so as to update the building's DangerReport status. I wouldn't oppose, I guess, but it's just a redundancy to me. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:31, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
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| :::::That's actually why I use the building state colorizer userscript. Makes sure that open doors are painfully obvious, since I too blow right past them if I don't have them highlighted. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 18:03, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::::Coloring might be a better option than an extra message, since it wouldn't have the same risk of getting lost in clutter. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub><sup>[[CLZA|<span style="color: lightgrey">CLZA</span>]]</sup> 18:26, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
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| ===Semi-Comprehensive Zombie Balancing=== | | ===Backpack=== |
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| |'''Timestamp:''' <sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub><sup>[[CLZA|<span style="color: lightgrey">CLZA</span>]]</sup> 22:16, 10 September 2015 (UTC) | | |'''Timestamp:''' [[User:Wild Crazy|Wild Crazy]] ([[User talk:Wild Crazy|talk]]) 20:55, 20 September 2021 (UTC) |
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| |'''Type:''' Zombie Boost (with a touch of survivor nerfing) | | |'''Type:''' New item |
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| |'''Scope:''' Zombies and survivors | | |'''Scope:''' Survivors |
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| |'''Description:''' So, here goes. | | |'''Description:''' This will be a new item found in schools with a 2% find rate and sports stores with a 4% find rate. The low numbers are because, like a flak jacket, once you find it you have it forever. It increases you encumbrance by 30%. However, you can't use an item that is in your backpack until you remove it from the backpack. It costs one AP to add an item to your backpack and one AP to remove an item. An item affects your regular encumbrance until added to the backpack. Items such as GPS, radios, cell phones, and flak jacket do not work when in your backpack. Items in your backpack will not be shown in your inventory, but the backpack itself will be shown in your inventory. There will be a drop box next to the word backpack that shows all the items inside. When you click on an item in that drop box, it removes it from your backpack (1 AP). |
| #Zombie speech is corrected to function just as survivor speech does, but only to other zombies. No more limited alphabet. In exchange, zombie speech is limited to 20 characters per AP. Survivors still see the translated version. (I would not oppose masking survivor speech to zombies, but that may actually hurt survivors trying to coordinate.)
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| #Removing barricades works the opposite of adding them. EHB gets a +25% to hit, VHB gets a +15%, HB +5, lower barricades stay the same.
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| #Zombies can hear activity inside of buildings. A zombie standing outside a building can hear searches, speaking (but not what is said, just as mumbles), gunshots, etc. The zombie must be standing and directly outside the building. You would see "2 hours ago, you heard movement inside the building". The exception, generators block all noise but the generator running. So, a powered building would just say "you hear the hum of a generator." This should only show the most recent activity, not all activity since the previous log-in. It would not give an idea the number of survivors inside.
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| #Survivors can only repair decay up to the level of AP they currently possess. Building cost 50 AP to repair and you got 30? Prepare to wait in a slightly less ruined building.
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| #Scent Death is fixed to give actual numbers rather than the basically useless colors.
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| #Groan ranges are all increased by 1 unit/block.
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| Now some more questionable suggestions (more nerfing survivors than improving zombies):
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| #FAKs have a 50% chance of curing infection. A message is shown after using a FAK saying either "you cured the infection" or "so-n-so is still infected."
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| #If a zombie has grabbed a survivor or other zombie with tangling grasp, the victim must spend 1 AP to break the hold before taking other actions. If the grasp must still be in effect at the time of the action.
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| #Using a non-ranged (not a gun) weapon against a zombie gives a 5% chance of getting infected during each hit (if the zombie has infection). It could say something like, "You hit the zombie for 3 damage with your axe, but get too close to the zombie. As you pull back your axe, you rake across the zombies teeth. You will lose 1 HP every blah, blah."
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| #Free running with more than 60% encumbrance give a 10% chance of falling during the run. Damage is the same as free running into ruined buildings, some times it happens some times it doesn't. The chance of falling goes up 1% for each % of encumbrance over 60 (ie. 80 gives a 30%, 100 gives a 50%).
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| #Misfire, all firearms have a 2% failure rate. There is no lasting effect, just the loss of 1 AP and 1 bullet.
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| |}
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| ====Discussion (Semi-Comprehensive Zombie Balancing)====
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| Most of these I 100% endorse. Comments/questions from section A:
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| *As to #1, I wish there were a way to do this without removing the flavor of zombies' limited communication.
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| *For #4, what about buildings that are more than 50 AP ruined? would you have to spend 50 AP, wait until you regained, spend another 50 AP, etc? Or would buildings that fall beyond 50AP be lost forever?
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| From section B:
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| *For #4, 60% encumbrance seems pretty low — as a survivor, I rarely have below 50%, and often am running in the 70-80% range. Maybe 75% as the encumbrance threshold? Also, isn't there some item which you can carry to exceed 100% encumbrance by a significant margin (pumpkins?)
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| Also, have any of these been suggested before? Other than that, I'm a fan. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:38, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
| | Q: Wouldn't this buff survivors, since they can carry more bullets and kill more zombies? |
| :In order: | |
| :*It would still be there for survivors seeing it. I was hoping the character limit might result is more "cades @ 10pm" rather than "tonight my zombies brothers, we attack the barricades at 10:00 GMT." More like zombies grunt words, rather than speak them. But perhaps a better compromise might be just removing all vowels (except A), so it's easier to communicate but still not 100% clear?
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| :*They could be repaired. I picture, in my idyllic dream, it taking 3-4 coordinated survivors to retake long ruined buildings or one survivor and luck/revives. It also means that if zombies hold a building for say 1 year, it will take quite the effort/coordination to recover it (would take a single survivor about 7.5 days to repair rather than 1 second and 7.5 days of negative AP).
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| :*You are probably right. My thought was making survivors really think about what they need/want; however, it's been so long since I've worried about survivor stuff (tool boxes, generators, fuel cans), that I may be overestimating what that allows a survivor to carry.
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| :*Probably?
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| :Thanks, Bob. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub><sup>[[CLZA|<span style="color: lightgrey">CLZA</span>]]</sup> 23:18, 10 September 2015 (UTC) | | A: Since it costs an AP to add and remove an item, it wastes a lot of AP to put bullet clips in your backpack if you are planning on using them right away. |
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| '''Vouch''' This is excellent, well-planned material for Kevan to completely fail to implement. In any case, might want to clarify that Section A, #5 is more like, "survivors must undo repair incrementally, using what AP they do have, instead of going into negatives", as the wording seems more like "can only repair if you have enough AP", which is why Bob asked that question. The rest of Section A I like. Now, Section B, I'm against #1 and #5. Adding more unavoidable fail chances will take more fun out of the game. Having to burn one FAK after rising is reasonable, but having to go through 2-4 because Rando was on the rag is not. The misfire chance thing is also unfun, since it can't be mitigated in any way. #4, I second Bob in raising the threshold. 75% sounds reasonable, but make the fail chances increase by 2% with every 1% encumbrance, so 100% enc is still hit for 50% fail. #3, flavor text would make more sense if it was about being splashed with zombie blood (small nitpick, mechanics are fine). Everything else is good.. --{{User:RadicalWhig/sig}}00:26, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
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| :I did consider the blood splash for infection, but I have since decided a different path might be best to address infection. On further thought, I do agree that nerfing the FAK to infection-cure ratio is a bad idea, and my modified idea would address making infection less useless anyway. After Bob's comments, I was thinking the same thing regarding encumbrance, so I take you suggesting the same thing to mean we are both right. Thanks for the input, you radicalpenguinwhig. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub><sup>[[CLZA|<span style="color: lightgrey">CLZA</span>]]</sup> 21:52, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
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| With Section A, I like numbers 2, 4 (love it! though rework the wording as per the other comments), 5, and 6. Regarding #1, to me, the zombie language that's been created around this game is one of its defining traits, so even if it ''is'' a hindrance to the zombie cause, I'd rather keep it and work around it than lose something that's integral to what it means to be a zombie in UD. As for #3, I'm on the fence, since this feels very much so like x-ray vision. Allowing them to hear searches also seems like a bit much to me, but speaking and gunshots seem reasonable enough.
| | Q: If it wastes AP, what is the point? |
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| With Section B, maybe increase the success odds for #1 to something like 90% instead of 50%, I like #2 as it is, I'm not a fan of #3 since it means zombies are doing damage just by standing, I'm not a fan at all of #4 since I think there's a better implementation of that idea already in suggestions somewhere, and I love #5 (though they may not all be misfires...maybe "you fumble with the gun in your haste" or something). Regarding #4, rather than it being a random chance that you'll be frustrated with every free run leap you make (of which survivors make quite a few), I think it should be limited to particular leaps that players can choose to avoid if they want, such as from ruins into intact buildings, with the ruins crumbling under their feet occasionally. Doing it like that instead makes things more interesting, since it becomes a question of risk vs. reward rather than the introduction of randomized frustration, given that you can avoid it entirely, but have the option to use the ruin in an attempt to save AP at the risk you'll waste AP and take damage. It'll actually incentivize keeping more buildings at VSB, I'd imagine, which plays well with your zombie buff to barricade smashing.
| | A: It will be useful if you want to carry around an extra stash of items, such as FAKs and Revivification Syringes, or if you are going far away from any resource buildings and need some extra supplies. |
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| One thing that's missing from this comprehensive zombie balancing is some way of addressing barricade interference, which I've long contended is in need of some more advanced balancing. Right now, the odds of interfering seem to be based on the raw number of zombies in the building, which makes very little sense if the survivors have an overwhelming presence in the building and should theoretically have no problems evicting their uninvited guests. Which is to say, with any buff to barricade smashing (which I agree is needed), we also need a corresponding (slight) nerf to barricade interference. E.g. Rather than being based solely on the number of zeds, base it in some way on the ratio of zeds:survivors in the building. More or less, make it easier for zeds to get in (as you suggested), but also easier to kick them out when there are lots of survivors and few zeds inside (i.e. take away the OPness of the beachhead tactic in large-scale events). Makes for a more dynamic gameplay and a better chance of sieges making a return, without nerfing zeds in small-scale attacks in the least. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 16:42, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
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| :I do see your point on the zombie language. Perhaps a compromise might be to slightly increase the available letters to make communication easier, without making it just normal? Regarding the hearing, I can see point on the searches not making noise, but I'm afraid just making shots and talking noticeable will encourage less survivor communication. It does have the limitation is not giving a number, not telling whether there are still survivors, and since it would only show the last action, it would not give an idea as to how used the building is. I can see the x-ray argument, but I think there are enough limitations that it is not as easy to abuse (plus it actually could be used as weapon by survivors to trick zombies into attacking empty buildings).
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| :As for the FAK failure rate, I actually agree with Whig, I think instead the solution might be to make claws and teeth cause infection, meaning a zombie attacking a survivor always causes infection, which would match with the genre's general rules, plus it mean that zombies don't have to make a different attack to infect, they can just use claws if they want (although possibly claws should have a 60% or so infection rate). Additionally, if claws cause infection, I would drop the idea of passive infection, which is really skirting the line on an automatic action. I just find infection generally a waste most of the time. As for free running, I agree with Bob/Whig, that the % should be higher. I was wanting to create a bit more resource management, as opposed to just nerfing freerunning, which to be fair a survivor can completely avoid any chance of falling by limiting encumbrance to less than 75% (rather than the original 60, using 2% increases as per whig) It seems odd that a survivor can jump between buildings with 3 generator. So, it becomes: do you limit your resources or risk an untimely fall and needing to find an EP (which the zombie cade attack bonus should actually help, since anything over VSB is less effective). As for the misfire, it would make more sense and add more flavor to have a few causes, so I agree there.
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| :The siege issue I'm planning to address in my semi-comprehensive survivor balancing. Although I think for 90% of the game survivors have an advantage, once the cades drop, they are screwed. I do feel, as a side effect of some of these, that for example barricade hit bonus, might help survivors if less EHB building exist (plus the bonus would apply to survivors fixing overcaded buildings as well). The misfire and encumbrance limit would quite possibly hurt PKers more than survivors, since PKers use basically exclusively guns and tend to limit restocking. Thanks for the feedback Aichon. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub><sup>[[CLZA|<span style="color: lightgrey">CLZA</span>]]</sup> 21:52, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
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| ::Aichon, et al, so I had an idea, I suspect it will be less popular, but I'll throw it up. Would an AP penalty to freerunning (or just movement) for encumbrance be better? Say if you are over 75% encumbered, freerunning costs 2 AP. It could be applied to all movement (like for new zombies), but that might be pushing it. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub><sup>[[CLZA|<span style="color: lightgrey">CLZA</span>]]</sup> 22:23, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
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| :::Yeah, I'm definitely not a fan of anything that further reduces the amount of AP available. I do really like the fall chance much more than the increased AP cost. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 17:38, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::Agreed, not a fan of increasing AP costs for movement. Zombies lacking Lurching Gait is already bad enough as it is. But by my count, a typical survivor will be carrying in the ballpark of 30% encumbrance in non-consumable items alone (Toolbox + Flak + (Axe or Dagger and Crowbar) + 1xRadio), which doesn't leave much room for stocking up on FAKs or syringes, let alone firearms, spray cans, gennies, or similar items, before they run up against penalties. Really though, I'm pretty much always opposed to penalties on high encumbrance.
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| ::::That said, I ''am'' for making it more sane. For instance, maybe you have compartments of different sizes, rather than just a big bag with 100 slots like it is now. Maybe only one of those compartments is big enough to hold a gennie, which would limit the number of gennies a player could hold, without compromising their ability to stock up on a large quantity of small items that could easily fit in pockets or whatnot. Or maybe gennies have their encumbrance shoot up to 50%, but they also have a corresponding increase in their search rate, that way they're easier to find, but survivors have to make more trips to find them since they can't hold as many at once. Basically, don't punish players for engaging in typical gameplay. Instead, limit their options outright (e.g. compartmentalize the inventory/jack up gennie weight) or give them a risk/reward choice for engaging in atypical gameplay. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:33, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
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| Due to it's obviously needing corrected. Repairs would be incremental, that is you could only repair up to your current AP. You could continue repairing later or have someone else help. It would not create anything that could not be repaired. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub><sup>[[CLZA|<span style="color: lightgrey">CLZA</span>]]</sup> 21:52, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
| | Please give your thoughts. |
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| Section A
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| :1. '''Zombie speech is corrected to function...''' Yes, I think this is a good suggestion. It makes sense that zombies would have a better understanding of their own utterings.
| | ====Discussion (Backpack)==== |
| :2. '''Removing barricades works...''' Yes, barricades inhibit interaction between zombies and survivors too much.
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| :3. '''Zombies can hear...''' To some extent, sure, but I'm curious as to how often you think these messages should pop up.
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| :4. '''Survivors can only repair...''' Perhaps you can repair in 10AP? "chunks"?
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| :5. '''Scent Death is fixed...''' Okay sure whatever.
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| :6. '''Groan ranges are all...''' Okay sure whatever.
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| Section B
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| :1. '''FAKs have a 50%...''' Why? Is infection too weak? Are FAKs too strong?
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| :2. '''If a zombie has grabbed...''' Most zombies have tangling grasp and most use claw attacks. Clicking an extra button just to do ''anything'' would get kinda annoying, first of all. What are you trying to fix here? Zombie claws have no ammo and need no searching. This balances with the higher accuracy and damage of survivors weapons that ''do'' need ammo and searching.
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| :3. '''Using a non-ranged...''' Come on. Randomly raking your hand/arm across the zombie teeth is lame and so are free attacks just for existing. Do you think survivor attacks are too strong, and zombie attacks to weak? Axes are already weaker than zombie claws.
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| :4. '''Free running with more...''' Survivors gain an advantage by being able to use items that have better accuracy, damage, healing powers and so on than zombies, but this is balanced by having to search for them and having a carrying capacity. Are survivor items too strong? Don't you think that randomly falling off a building would be really annoying when freerunning?
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| :5. '''Misfire, all firearms...''' Survivors do have better weapons, but this is offset by having to search for ammo and only being able to carry so much at one time. And random effects like that would be annoying.
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| :--{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 23:26, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
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| ::Regarding section A3, it would only display the most recent action at the time of log-in or screen reload (like now happens against an active target).
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| ::Section B
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| :::1. Infection is too weak, however, on further thought I think tying it to claw attacks addresses the matter.
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| :::2. Actually zombie claws are better than survivor weapons, but that is ignoring the existence of barricades. It is simply nothing more a survivor AP sink, however it would seem justified by how the existing skill works.
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| :::3. I'll agree, thus claws cause infection and dropping the failure rate on FAKs. That should make it more fun for zombies without less fun for survivors.
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| :::4. I have no problem with the power of any survivor item. My problem is that the number of items carried with 0 repercussion seems rather large. Rather than limit that amount, why not just introduce a mechanic that says if you are willing to be smart with your inventory and not just sit around pre-stocked with gennies, freerunning works perfect. If you just have to carry an absurd amount of gear, you take a chance. As posed above, would a flat 2 AP cost for freerunning with over 75% encumbrance sit better with you?
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| :::5. I don't disagree with that.
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| ::--<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub><sup>[[CLZA|<span style="color: lightgrey">CLZA</span>]]</sup> 03:55, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
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| I am happy with all of these bar the loss of zamgrh, which I think should just be more officially mentioned in-game (perhaps with a link to some of the wiki pages about it when you purchase the death rattle skill). {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 17:59, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
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| Sorry, but most of this is just "cheese the players off". Removing zamgrh eviscerates this game's soul. Not being able to go into negative AP for repairs makes long-dark buildings effectively '''unrepairable'''. And adding random "You got infected", "You fell off the building because you were carrying too much", and "Your FAK didn't cure the infection"? No. Not reasonable. This stuff just makes the game painful to play. Louder groans make plenty of sense, and maybe fiddling with zombie hit rates to let them kill more survivors faster might work, but adding random failure is not going to get UD any more players. [[User:Slicer|Slicer]] ([[User talk:Slicer|talk]]) 20:20, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
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| :If they've fallen into that much decay, maybe they ''should'' be unrepairable. It shouldn't take one click to undo years of change. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 22:07, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
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| ==Suggestions up for voting==
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| The following are suggestions that were developed here but have since gone to voting. The discussions that were taking place here have been moved to the pages linked below.
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| {{Category:Current Suggestions}}
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