Penny Heights/Archive

Queries concerning the Optimal Defense Plan

I noticed that Pyncombes Auto Repair has been at VSB lately, yet the barricade plan shows it as an EHB building... Considering that the Junkyard RP serves as an EP and Roberson Library next door is listed as an EP, I doubt that the auto repair is a required EP. Either we make it EHB in accordance with the plan, or we make Roberson Library EHB and the auto repair stays at VSB for low-level players, although I doubt there'd be many players without free running who are interested in obtaining fuel cans... Now I know Jed has more he wanted to add in relation to the current barricade plan so I'll leave this discussion open to anything relating to the barricade plan, not just the auto repair.--Nick 06:08, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I did? Well i'll look into that later. Although yeah just cade the auto repair.--xoxo 06:28, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Well yeah I would but someone's graffitied it saying it's a entry point. I prolly shoulda mentioned that.--Nick 06:46, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Rothwell Building NT

Survivors are urged NOT to attack and kill zombies standing outside the NT, or for that matter any buildings at all, unless you need the XP. Killing zeds outside is pointless. The majority of zombies have Ankle Grab, even the very low level ones, meaning it takes just 1 AP (at the most 6) for them to stand back up again. It takes survivors a lot more to put them down again. It's AP inefficient. Instead, concentrate on barricading, healing and reviving. The more survivors we have, the better chance we stand against zombies who, lets face it, can basically kick our arse, unless we do some serious organising.

We need to meat-cade our resource buildings and be vigilant. The number of fallen zombies outside Rothwell is indicative of two things, either far too much outside zombie killing is going on, or that the zombies may be preparing for a Mass-Ressurection and attack the building as one.

This is all pretty basic stuff, but stuff that the survivors of Penny Heights seem to have forgotten. --Scurley7 02:08, 25 April 2008 (BST)

Hey! Chetos 13:53, 25 April 2008 (BST)

Hey! to you too. It's still true.--Scurley7 10:02, 26 April 2008 (BST)

Update Zombie Group Listing

Has anyone actually seen any members of either of the groups listed anywhere around Penny Heights. The Undeadite group page itself states they are in Buttonville and the UnMod group page explains a group hiatus. Should these groups be removed from the suburb page? I am unsure of the proper procedure. --Scurley7 10:19, 27 April 2008 (BST)\

Same applies to the Hostile groups section.--Scurley7 10:24, 27 April 2008 (BST)

post a notice on their talk pages saying your intention, if they respond saying they are local leave them. If they haven't in 48 hours clear 'em.--xoxo 10:28, 27 April 2008 (BST)

Penny Heights Fall back point

Well given that almost half of Malton is a Red zone, I was thinking about what will happen once we get completely overrun? This got me thinking of a fall back point. And be it a Mall I believe that Lumber Mall is a good fall back point for the suburb. It's a TRP, only has 2 blocks and has an RP close by. It has fuel close too. Seem to me like the perfect fall back point. However I'd actually suggest some more survivors start making there way over (not so much so that it thins out the rest of the suburb, but enough) to keep it active. Essentially it is one of the best places in the game as a TRP given its size and place in the map of Malton, but I don't think this is exploited enough. If all these survivors (as the radio is suggesting) 'join together', then Lumber Mall would be a good point of call. It's size has made it a target in the past, and at times it has seen better days, but if we can get in here early then I think this will be an invaluable asset when the zombeis come to town. If anyone is interested in collaborating with the group which looks after the mall please have a look at their wiki here and contact them from the links provided. Still, I'm interested to know what the rest of the suburb thinks about this? Oh and with both Odo and Josephine general nearby, there is the added bonus of good heals if the mall isn't available. Acoustic Pie 20:01, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I totally agree. With the local hospitals, the 1 block away RP, and the fact that more people can be placed in a smaller mall, Lumber seems like a great option for a fall back point. The only problem I see is numbers. How many can we get inside the mall? I think it is time for the members of fallen suburbs to realize that the only way for us to put up any sort of fight is to collaborate together. This is not about groups so much any more, but more about being pro-survivors. One thing we need to make sure of, though, is that at least one of these hospitals remains powered etc. Collaboration between groups is needed, but in a more private setting, I believe. Any suggestions for a medium that is well protected enough for the Penny residents to discuss this in more detail?--MichaelRead 03:33, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Well there's the Penny Heights forums and also the Unified Human Resistance (which doesn't have a wiki page yet...) is putting together some kind of forum I believe. We'll find out as things progress I guess. Maybe start spreading the word about Penny Heights' value to other groups/suburbs through radio and the wiki. I super pumped for humanity's last great stand though tbH!--Nick 03:48, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I think you're right there. The only way we can actively sort out a good defence is if people come together and come to Lumber Mall, there can be an unlimited number of people so long as there are enough to defend it. To be frank, groups who are pro-survivor aren't being too pro-survivor if they don't come into the mall, otherwise everyone will die. Some may live in sporadic buildings, but I'm betting that they won't last long. Also, there will always be forum spies, so nothing is really safe. I see us having one goal basically, so come together in one place and just live it out. Simple as. As remember, Joachim is a mall, but it's 4 blocks, that's effectively cutting all the survivors into quaters. With Lumber you only cut it into half. Hence we need more people. The sooner this is realised the better. Acoustic Pie 13:11, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Saying that survivors should all go to the malls is a bit too much though. We need to think on the larger scale. We need revivers, we need scouters, we need people to defend the NT. The NT is more important than the mall will ever be. Yes the mall is very important to us, and no doubt should it be high on the priority list, but I think we are forgetting the importance of revivification. I would personally love to give myself over to revives in this seige and just be a defender of the NTs in the area. If we can split up in to a few major groups, we can do this. One to defend Lumber, one to defend NTs and other resource buildings, and another group to go the suburbs that the zombies have left behind and rebuild them. If the horde is pre-occupied with killing Penny, then they wont have much time to go out west and destroy everything again. If we can keep a few suburbs in the west at green while they attack Penny, then we just might split them up a little. They are trying to take over the game, and at the moment we as survivors are letting them by only worrying about our own backyard.--MichaelRead 09:14, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh and I am not talking about just Penny Heights, I mean three groups comprising of every human in Malton who still cares enough to defend our city.--MichaelRead 09:16, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I think you're very right there. The NT buildings are very important and should be well defended. I'm not sure to the Craddy Building, but last time I looked there were some in the other one. Still, I'm betting they'll be the first to go, so please, stock up early! Acoustic Pie 19:30, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Revive Point Tags

I think someone or some group is trying to cause dissention among the PH survivors. I have noticed that War Crescent RP tags are getting tagged over with tags for the Junkyard RP. I seriously doubt it is the BBK doing this, so if you see anyone doing this please shot them once then ask them nicely to stop it. Ignatz 21:21, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I'll speak to the other BBKs but I can assure you that it wasn't us. I would guess it would be a random survivor newcomer who doesn't know any better. BBKs wouldn't waste spraycans vandalising your turf.--Nick 21:50, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Murderous Predators

Ah'm curious as to whethuh you Beatbox Kids are keepin' an eye out for murderous predators and the like. Ah ask this because Ah'm lookin' to see what kind of useful information we should be exchangin' between us. Ah'm eaguh to see what you can bring to the suburb, and whethuh or not the Lumbuhjacks can be of any assistance. -- ColonelBooterCooter23:52, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

not so much with the murderous predators, although we have been a bit perturbed by the whole dragonhead vs bigger mortice war. should they be revived? if so which group. Whats the lumberjacking view? Both groups have been nothing but pleasant to us.--xoxo 08:16, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Bigguh Mortice has actively PKed us in the past, whereas Dragonhead has only killed Bigguh Mortice membuhs. We're not officially allied with Dragonhead, but considerin' the circumstances, we lean towards supportin' them in their vendetta inasmuch as we don't particuluhleh enjoy dyin'. -- ColonelBooterCooter 15:23, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

LMS has kinda asked BM to move on out of the mall as well as dragonhead members. To avoid any stances we don't actively kill any of them but ask them to move out of the mall if we ever see any inside. Currently though it seems as though it is small time Pkers that are trying to get somewhere. I have a feeling that given the survivor/zombie ratio and the fact the south is relatively dry, then we may be seeing some Pkers coming in to try and cause some havok. That said what's the Pking status within Joachim Mall at the moment? Acoustic Pie 21:27, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

My personal revive policy in the junkyard in relation to Dragonhead and Bigger Mortice is to revive members of both groups. I don't wanna take sides as I don't know enough about the conflict so it seems like the best approach from my perspective. In response to the OP, we do kill PKers given the chance, but it's usually only once they've PKed a BBK in particular. This is basically because I can't trust the Rogues Gallery all too much. It's just too unreliable. But yes if one of the other pro survivor groups in Penny Heights reports a PKer we'll be on the lookout. So far we're looking for Captain Frye of Red Rum, who we've witnessed murdering LMS members and, more recently, BBK members. We're also currently trying to negotiate a peaceful resolution to some recent conflict between Re Sic Mortem and BBKs, although he has yet to reply and so the KOS we have on him remains. You're now up to date with the BBKs PKer records.--Nick 21:48, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

For future reference, messages like this should be posted on the BBK Talk Page, as it's more of a direct question to us as opposed to a whole suburb inquiry.--MichaelRead 06:31, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

It was actualleh originalleh posted in response to your announcement that you were movin' into the neighborhood, and someone ported it ovuh heyah aftuh that announcement was relegated to the archives. -- ColonelBooterCooter 16:01, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Fair call, to be honest.--MichaelRead 13:54, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

A message to all Pro-Survivors

If you know of anybody in any other groups who would like to come and help us out, let them know. We need all the help we can. Broadcast on some different frequencies, hit up some wiki pages, anything. We need to get as many survivors as we can into Lumber Mall so that we can at least have some time to think of what we can do next.--MichaelRead 08:19, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

The Possible Invasion of Penny Heights

Well, I'm sure you may know, but this latest EMRP in Vinetown states 200 zombies in the suburb, and given its proximity to the suburb this is quite possibly an invasion waiting to happen. From a quick scout some of the TRPs are defended, but for maximum chance of survival I suggest that there are to be more people in the NTs. Entry points are not generally a problem. However given the performance the suburb had with The Dead I think we should figure out something to do to keep the suburb alive. From what I've seen in the two malls there are people inside, however they are not evenly spread out. It doesn't matter if there are 100 people in a single corner, to survive you need them evenly spread out! As stated in the past Lumber Mall is one of the easiest malls (even structures) in the whole of Malton to defend, so long as there are the people in there to keep it safe. Currently there are people but they need to spread out more in the mall and in both malls to ensure that we as a suburb survive the possible enslaught. I don't mean to be pre-emtive here, but given that the last attack on Lumber Mall proved that people needed to spread out and the zombies knew we couldn't defend from an en masse attack they struck where the building was weakest. Anyway for provisions I suggest we stock up on syringes, ammo and FAKs. Carry a fire axe too and keep buildings where one can get fuel from safe. What does the rest of PH think? Acoustic Pie 18:52, 15 April 2008 (BST)

You're right saying most buildings don't have enough people however that is because Penny seems to be a fairly unpopulated suburb, certainly compared to most other suburbs with malls i've been to. I'd say in the face of a large horde the suburb would fall, particularly since there is no dominating group in Penny and thus its difficult to co-ordinate survivors. If we could somehow get everyone to do what we wanted IMO we'd be best off cramming everyone into Lumber and letting the rest of the burb ruin, then if people need supplies they could go if in groups of 4 or 5, clear repair and cade a building, get what they need then return to the mall.--xoxo 02:34, 16 April 2008 (BST)

- Why wait until the whole suburb is in ruins before sending out small groups? Survivors should be doing trips to clear, repair, and barricade resource buildings right now while making use of the malls as a fall-back position. Survivors should be doing everything they can to slow down the mob of zombies by making the undead retake resource buildings they had just ransacked. If the zombies have to turn around to resack a resource building, they won't be busy tearing down the barricades of the malls. And if the malls do happen to fall, isn't it convenient that there are these resource buildings that had been secured for survivors as headquarters for retaking the mall? Survivors should be running guerrila tactics against the besieging army of undead. --The Masked Lurker 04:47, 16 April 2008 (BST)

The reason i suggested waiting until the buildings are ruined is because most zombies having ruined a building will move on to another target, this leaves buildings empty around the burb while zombies focus on taking lumber mall that is when people can go and take buildings to get supplies (syringes/fuel), zombies will then be forced to leave the mall seige to hold the TRPs. Of course i don't mean everyone should just abandon the whole suburb but theres not a lot of point clearing and repairing buildings that haven't been taken by the zeds yet...--xoxo 04:56, 16 April 2008 (BST)

- I'm not sure why you think I was advocating the repair of resource buildings that haven't been ransacked by zombies yet. You seem to be stuck on the idea that I am against everything you just said that you're unable to see the illogic of what you are saying. You can't repair buildings that are not in ruins, so how can I advocate that act? What I was suggesting was the retaking of the various resource buildings in Penny Heights and nearby suburbs that have already been ransacked then retreating to the malls. Like you said. However, what I differed in opinion was when to do so. I suggested doing it now, while you said waiting until most of the suburb is sacked. We already have buildings in ruins, and so do the neighboring suburbs. Best to fight while the damage is still not that much. --The Masked Lurker 17:26, 16 April 2008 (BST)

eh, whatever. The problem is you end up with people hanging out in resource buildings dying which means more ap needs to be spent reviving and we have less people meatshielding the mall. Of course what i propose is totally impossible due to the massive co-ordination it would require.--xoxo 01:47, 17 April 2008 (BST)

- Sigh. Please reread what I wrote. All of what I wrote. I said make the trips then return to the malls. And RETURN to the malls. Just like what you suggested. Each person in the small group expends a portion of their AP to do their part then use the rest to get back to the safety of the malls. If enough people do this in a group, safehouses get retaken easily enough. Only difference in what I said and what you said was to do it while only a little bit of the suburb was ransacked instead of waiting until most of the suburb was in ruins. --The Masked Lurker 09:15, 17 April 2008 (BST)

Both your points have merit, however I see more value in the idea of letting the zombies ransack certain areas. The current hordes are stupid, they have a few smart brains among them, a lot of newbs and well, most of them have a few characters at a time. This is how they attack so effectively. If you are to meatshield Lumber Mall, there is more of a chance of holding the horde off, as it is a more confined space. Penny Heights does not have the numbers or co-ordination to effectively pull off big plans like the one Masked Lurker suggested. While this would work in theory, we have to be realistic in understanding that our suburb is not inhabited by many individuals who are willing to co-operate with each other on a more than casual basis. With J3Ds idea, we can pack possibly 200-300 people into a confined space, make the zombies jobs a lot harder, give the newbs some xp. There is an RP next to Lumber in the Junkyard that the BBK and LMS monitor regularly, sometimes getting up to 20- 25 revives in times of hardship. Now, if we keep the individual players revivified regularly, they make more work for the zombies to chew through (as well as giving us a higher percentage at having more players active simultaneously). I'm sure the BBK will volunteer to (and are more than capable of) maintaining Revives exclusively, while other groups can co-ordinate together to go out in to the areas that zombies have left behind and rebuilding them. Eventually, the zeds will move back to these lit buildings in search of easy prey, and to stroke their egos, while in the mean time, survivors can revive by the masses.

Basically, if we meatshield the Mall, effectively revive and heal, we stay alive. If we are alive, we can rebuild resource buildings and collect what we need using small groups in one days ap. Way more effective than spreading out and becoming vulnerable. --CyberRead240 17:55, 18 April 2008 (BST)

- Big plans? Huh? My big plans? My agreement with someone else's suggestion about players hiding in the malls making short trips to ransacked buildings to clear, repair, and/or barricade them and then to return to the malls is now an elaborate scheme concocted by me? The heck? --The Masked Lurker 02:31, 19 April 2008 (BST)

- I should reiterate why I thought the short trips were a good idea. We get 48 AP every 24 hours. Why not have survivors spend some of it making more work for the zombies? Hacking zombies with axes, repairing ransacked buildings, and barricading doorways only use up AP. If the army of the dead is busy retaking empty safehouses, they are not busy killing survivors at the malls. And when the malls fall, there are these convenient safehouses to make use of in retaking the malls. Not once did I say that people should stay in those resource buildings they reclaimed if the mall is still standing. The resource buildings are supposed to be zombie bait and future fallback points. How many times do I have to write this before you guys understand what I'm saying? --The Masked Lurker 02:31, 19 April 2008 (BST)

I get what you're saying. I didn't bother responding because there was nothing more to say. I think what you said was just as valid as what i said, both would work well. You were more or less nitpicking over a tiny technicality which was why i was initially blahh about what you were saying but its essentially the same. I think prior to the next invasion of Penny we should try and get people to only sleep in say Rothwell, Crady or Lumber.--xoxo 10:39, 19 April 2008 (BST)

- My "suggestion" and your idea are "just as valid" and is "essentially the same" because they are. I was basically seconding your suggestion. The only thing I differed in opinion on was when to start. However, the following dialogue or the "nitpicking" that followed had nothing to do with the initial idea. It was me trying to tell you I was agreeing with most of what you said and you repeating the ideas I agreed with. Anyways, as for the using of NT Buildings and Malls as safehouses, I think that'll only happen during a siege. Way too many independents and newbies in the suburb. --The Masked Lurker 10:46, 20 April 2008 (BST)

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't even notice Acoustic Pie had written anything, I overlooked it and thought it was just masked lurker and jed talking. That being said, chill out mate. No need to get so defensive, yeah? Maybe "suggested" wasn't the way to word it, but whatevs anyway. Ignore that and carry on.--CyberRead240 11:06, 19 April 2008 (BST)

- "Defensive?" Don't you mean frustration at why people can't understand I'm agreeing with them? When I'm being told by two people that my agreement with the suggestion of one of those two people was a total disavowal of the idea, how can I not get confused and angry by the behavior? I say "I agree with you for the most part"; I get retold the reasons I agree with and that what I said was the opposite of the idea. What am I supposed to think? At least you apologized and explained your mistake at lumping my words with the word of Acoustic Pie. --The Masked Lurker 10:46, 20 April 2008 (BST)

Ok, this isn't getting anywhere. We're all friends, no one's said anything new in about 5 posts so lets just give this a big 'whatever' and put it behind us. I'm not posting here anymore, i would encourage you both to do the same but of course you are more than welcome to continue.--xoxo 13:50, 20 April 2008 (BST)

Penny Heights Revive Points

Hey locals,

I've been thinking about the current arrangement in relation to revivification points in the suburb and I think things could be made a lot easier with a revamp of the locations of the RPs. At the moment we have 3 outdoor RPs (Carpark 94,71, Churchous Avenue [91, 75], and War Crescent [96,79]). The concept of the indoor revive point has been taken up with great success in other suburbs around Malton, two prime examples being St. Emelia's Church in Santlerville - the Fastest Revive Point in Malton^TM, and St. Swithun's Church in Yagoton. One can run revives without ever having to set foot outside, as long as the building is not ruined (see: RESCUE).

Now, while these RPs are fantastic, they fail to fully embrace the true potential of the indoor revive point - that of the Junkyard.

Junkyards cannot be ruined, therefore can always be free run into. They also, like churches, have no doors. This means that, with a bit of time and spreading of the word, and as long as the residents of Penny Heights keep their eyes on the junkyard, it can remain unbarricaded so as to allow both zombie and survivor access from street level and from an adjacent block via free running. This is perfect for a revive point.

There are 6 junkyards in Penny Heights, 2 of them being in what I see as prime locations for revive points. Refer to this amazing map I drew up:

Circled in green are the current revive points serving Penny Heights. Circled in yellow are my proposed locations for possible revive points. The red lines indicate nearby resource buildings which would benefit from the proposed revive points.

I propose an indoor junkyard revive point at 98,76 for casualties of Lumber Mall, the two Hospitals 2 blocks west, and Pyncombes Auto Repair. This would be especially useful during mall siege situations, as revivers could go straight from the mall into the junkyard, revive, and then get straight back into the mall to meatcade. This is also useful for revivees, who can rise and head straight into the mall or Josephine General Hospital to heal themselves up or wait for someone to do it for them. All this at 1 ap's distance.

The second RP I propose is at junkyard 95,74 - 1 block south of the Rothwell NT Building. Same case here in sieges: revives at 1 block free run away. This RP would also benefit Milard Auto Repair, the phone mast at the Tomkyns Building, and the factory at 94,73. The Craddy NT Building could also provide revives at this RP with a 3ap cost to reach the RP.

On top of these indoor RPs, I suggest there be an active revive point for Joachim Mall as close as possible in the event of a siege, as to maximise AP efficiency. After a quick check of the surrounding burbs I found nothing of the sort at a reasonable distance, so I believe an RP at wasteland 91,78 would be of great benefit to not only the mall, but also to Deacon Alley Police Dept, the Craddy Building, and Neave Auto Repair. Revivers and revivees could use the UD Fark HQ at the Orome Arms as an entry point after revivification.

Now, naturally, there would be a transition period, and local groups and individuals would have to help spread the word about the new arrangement, but this was achieved in a matter of days in Santlerville's case with St. Emelia's Church, and in time for the Battle of SantLUEville.

Please discuss here and let's see what we can come up with.--Nick 06:15, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree with this idea. I'm a member of the BBK and was a main player in getting St Emelia's in Santlerville running. However i think 3 RP's would be of more use to the suburb as they would be serviced more regularly. I propose junkyard 98,76 (as per Nick's suggestion) and junkyard 93,75. Also i think the optimal defence plan should be redone to reduce the ammount of VSB buildings in the suburb to 2 fire stations, 1 hospital and 1 PD.--xoxo 06:44, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I love J3Ds two locations. Thankyou for putting this project forward Nick.--MichaelRead 09:05, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Hahaha I wonder where you got this idea from aye?? You did go to all the effort though so good work. Just letting you know that you missed one already established indoor RP, Dunlap Bank, though it does not appear to be too well known. I think moving this RP to the junkyard directly below would be quite easy, just a few spray changes, etc. I think all three RP's should be created, as each provides definite advantages. If any were to be established it would have to the Junkyard (95,74) as it is in the centre of the suburb and right next to a NT building. The only problem with maintaining all three RP's would be numbers ie dedicated revivers. I'm taking up this roll within Dunlap Bank and will switch to the Junkyard if made official. Perhaps co-ordination between groups could lead to specific groups all monitering seperate RPs. This would make organisation much simpler, and maximise AP efficiency, and revive speed. Cheers --Scurley7 12:10, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I like the suggested revive points. Especially the ones near the malls. In my oppinion those would be more helpful to us then the current revive points. I'm for all three RPs. I can also be counted as a dedicated reviver, I usually have a good stockpile of syringes on me at all times, and all three locations are within 3ap of my 'base of operations' so it would be relativally easy to raise a survivor back from the dead. I'm 100% for this idea. --Max Briggs 13:33, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

OK I'm just waiting on UD Fark and LMS to comment (I contacted them on their forums). I think the junkyard near Lumber Mall would be especially useful in a mall siege. I was just thinking about how Lumber Mall has the advantage over other malls because of it's small size and therefore higher concentration of survivors (although I guess zombies too), which also means you only have to power two corners etc. It really should be easier to defend than any other mall. There was a conversation on this topic here and I really like the idea of Lumber Mall becoming a primary survivor stronghold if this zombie dominance continues to spread south.--Nick 04:30, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

(From the UD Fark forums) "I like the way you think. The only issue I could see would be the possibilty of rampant over-cading, so I would suggest we still maintain outdoor revive points as well. If you would like to temporarily HQ in Orome Arms with the Farkers or the Arms next door to us, we could try and implement an experiment at the junkyard to see how the residents take to it. We would still be servicing Churchous Ave as a backup of course." -ninjaforhire

OK, yeah we could gradually introduce them one at a time, so which one would you want to open first? I vote the one at 95,74. I don't know about having one at 93,75 coz it's just a little far from Joachim. It's more ap efficient to have an outdoor one 1ap from both Joachim and an entry point. The thing about over-cading isn't as big a problem as it looks. As long as graffiti is maintained inside and out, and, as you said, if there's at least one alternative RP (especially if it's one of the other junkyard RPs, although Churchous is fine for now at least) then everything's ok. --Nick 04:45, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

EDIT: And I just realised that the Orome Arms isn't actually an entry point. Sorry Farkers. Neave Auto Repair would be the entry point for revived survivors at the wasteland RP for Joachim Mall.--Nick 05:56, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Overcading is the biggest issue with this and indoor RPs only work well when they are used by several groups and are checked contsantly (see Santlerville and Yagoton) which is why i think the less RP's the better.--xoxo 07:29, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion, one revive point now, closer to whatever mall is more active. (I would guess Joachim). Once this RP is up and running and fairly well known, we will have many independent players stopping there to help with revives as well. After that we can open another on the other side of the suburb. I think only two is needed, as well as an emergency outdoor RP if absolutely needed.--MichaelRead 09:24, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

OK I've changed my mind. The problem with opening one for Joachim is that the closest Junkyard is 4ap away. It's just too far from the mall to get a lot of attention from independent players right now. Obviously later on the one under Rothwell would be great, but probably not as the opener, because of lack of mall traffic - as you said, MichaelRead. And Joachim Mall can get the wasteland one later (or sooner) if that idea's popular with the other groups. But if we're going to open only one junkyard RP at this time, I think it should be the one right on Lumber Mall. It has the potential to get a lot of mall/Rothwell traffic in a short amount of time. I can sit in Lumber and monitor the cades and graffiti in there for the first week or so to see how things go. Also can I get approval from majority to set up the Joachim Mall wasteland RP on the wiki, tag it in game, and shut down the carpark 94,71 and War Crescent RPs? This would leave us with:

• Churchous Avenue (as per ninjaforhire's request) for the transition period
• my proposed wasteland 91,78 RP for Joachim
• and whichever junkyard we decide to open first (I'd go with the Lumber Mall one).

I can write up a news report on the suburb page on any changes we make. Is this OK with everyone?

After some time I guess we'd shut down Churchous and open the Rothwell junkyard, leaving us with three spaced out RPs - two indoor, one outdoor.--Nick 11:18, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Sounds perfect.--MichaelRead 11:23, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Good day! I'm here from Lumber Mall Security. First of all, I agree with everything, it would be great if the junkyard near the mall was turned into an RP point, it's near the mall for casualties, doesn't block up the others and can be supervised by us and whoever else is willing to look after it! So all in all I agree, it is a great place due to it not being able to be ruined, it's near hospitals and obviously the mall!

As to the discussion on the mall defensive properties, this is something LMS have realised, however due to the naivity of some survivors, who assume that because it's small it doesn't necessarily need more survivors, it frequently falls. So to combat this in the future, if anything does turn the other way for survivors I do suggest that (including those in Penny Heights) come to Lumber, it has a fuel source nearby and is obviously excellent for getting supplies. But in essence we (the group) could do with more members to help hold it, all be it we have been round for just over a month, we have already been taken over by Pkers and had about 4 full on zombie seiges courtesy of Feral undead. So yes, all be it small, it still requires a helluva lot more effort because zombies are so much more concentrated! Acoustic Pie 13:45, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I have, err, removed the genny and radio transmitter out of junkyard 98,76 in preparation of its opening as Penny Height's first indoor RP! Could BBK and other interested locals please join in the effort by tagging the new location, removing the barricades and monitoring the location for zombies in need of life.--xoxo 08:00, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Updated the page and it's talk page. Check it out.--Nick 08:16, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

The Lumberjacks want to keep War Crescent but they haven't said anything here. I've asked them to contribute to this discussion here and not purely on their forums. I'm not gonna say this again, SPEAK UP, PEOPLE!!!--Nick 08:44, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah. There isn't much point stating your case for your revive point on your own forums. Put it here, where everyone can view it, its a community thing.--MichaelRead 09:46, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

No, no one actually 'asked' us anything. You read a post on our message boards (a three month old message) and assumed. I accidentally deleted the post, so allow me to repost it here. "Could you please state your intention to keep War Crescent running on the Penny Heights talk page. I contacted you on this issue on your talk page (http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Talk:The_Lumberjacks) but never got a reply. I think the best thing for this suburb is to relocate it's badly placed RPs. Make a comment on the talk page, not here, to limit confusion. Thanks guys, Nick." I truly did not mean to delete it. Now allow me to respond: We started the War Crescent RP when there was almost no organized survivor resistance here in Penny Heights. It was a really backwater, albeit safe suburb. The Lumberjacks primary mission is to protect the two hospitals for the benefit of all the survivors of Malton. In order to do this we need an efficient RP. War Crescent is 1 AP away from Odo Hospital, our primary base of operations. Seriously, when we got here there was almost no organization here. We try to help. On a daily basis there are at least 8-10 revives at War Crescent. That is 8-10 survivors returned to life and I see no reason to stop this. Look, plans come and plans go. Everybody has a 'plan'. Our plan for the revvie point at War Crescent works. Ithas a proven track record of working. If something isn't broken, don't 'fix' it. Open up whatever RPs you'd like. Just don't plan on the Lumberjacks closing the War Crescent RP down. I'll try to wiki this, but I don't wiki much, to be honest. We are now DEM allied so I have to say this with a grain of salt. This looks like a good idea but suffers from the flaw of many similar DEM plans: It works, but you stomp all over the groups, like the Lumberjacks, which have been working viciously to make life livable in Penny Heights. WOAH!! Also, Josephine Hospital is barricaded to EHB. Odo Hosp. is VS++, if you switch these that is just another confusion added to the pile, and you'll really be f'n with the Lumberjacks day-to-day operations in a BIG way. Ignatz 13:45, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

To sum up what mah esteemed team leaduh has said heyuh, the Lumbuhjacks intend to continue the maintenance of our War Crescent revahve point, and will likewise continue operatin' from Odo General Hospital, maintainin' it as a VSB++ entreh point. We support the effuhts of newer survivuh groups in Penneh Heights, but unduhstand that we are extremeleh unlikeleh to abandon our currentleh successful mode of operations. So long as you don't intend to interfere with those two processes -- Odo as an entreh point, War Crescent as a revahve point, both operated by the Lumbuhjacks -- then I do not foresee any issues with our august fraternal orduh. --ColonelBooterCooter 17:31, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

A big hello all from the PHPD. Anyway onto the point the PHPD are planning to continue providing revives at Churchous Avenue. It is one block from the NT itself and then only one block to an entry point (The Fire station SW), So AP effectiveness wise it seems the best choice for my group seen as that is around the area we help to maintain. --C girl 21:38, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

This "plan" is very logical; but fails to address the real nature of a MMORPG - multiple players in multiple roles with multiple goals. Therefore, your centralized design and plan fails to include the goals and roles of the players already actively maintaining an orderly suburb. If you wish to effectively "redesign" all the RPs in Penny Heights, you will be required to either operate all the new RPs yourself or negotiate our acceptance of your modified RP plan. From posts by both The Lumberjacks and PHPD, it appears your negotiation attempts by fiat declaration are lacking. If you wish to operate these other RPs, we will not dissuade you. But, we will not abandon our currently published and active RPs. --Piker Pete 03:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

These sorts of things work best with full suburb cooperation, but if you guys don't agree thats fine. We've opened up 98,76 and will operate that. If it works well and other groups want to get involved we will consider expanding across the burb. if it doesn't work, we'll look at closing down 98,76. Anyway thanks for your input.--xoxo 05:31, 4 March 2008

To be honest though, there is no need to get so snakey about it. We were just thinking of the success we had in other suburbs running indoor RPs, and were wondering if Penny Heights was interesting in trying it out. We weren't trying to 'fix' anything, just add a little bit of our expertise in this area. We are all working towards common goals here as Pro-Survivor groups. If your RP is getting 8-10 a day, then wonderful, obviously we don't need to change it. Heck we didn't even know half you groups were that serious about this. See how well the wiki works for group communications? Use it! We will open up the junkyard, we will see how it goes. It might just work. But, if this conversation is any indication of the population of Penny Heights, they might just be too stubborn to try new things and it might fail. Then we can close it. Simple. Lets just support each other guys, we were only doing this to service our survivor brethren. Thanks for you input though, it'd be nice to see more of it. --MichaelRead 07:11, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Ah think the largest problem at this point is that the conversation is bein' carried out in a somewhat patronizin' and condescendin' mannuh. Ah do not believe this was your intent, folks, but you're essentialeh goin' to established Penneh Heights groups and informin' them that their current revahve point strategies are inefficient, and you want to change them. Your goals are noble, but you appeuh to be beratin' folks for actualleh doin' a good job shorin' up their territoreh, and that puts folks on the defensive. You're gettin' on the Lumbuhjacks for not involvin' ourselves in the conversation outside of our forums, but it's not as if we're used to workin' with other Penneh Heights groups -- few enough have existed in our historeh, so forgive our shortsightedness when it comes to recognizing you. Harpin' on the subject, howevuh, doesn't exactly endear you to the constituency that you are courtin'. Ah'm not even entirely certain who you are, other than someone with an apparentleh earnest desire to help. If people seem somewhat hostile about your plan, try viewin' it from the local standpoint: "Hi, we're anonymous outsiduhs, and we noticed your revahve points are poorly located. We're suggestin' that you move them ovuh heyuh instead, because indoor revahve points are more efficient. What do you think? Please comment fastuh, as you are not filin' in and takin' part in our discussion fast enough for our likin'. Also, you are bein' pahticuluhly stubborn on some points, and we can't unduhstand why you don't want to help us fix somethin' that's not necessarileh broken." While you folks seem to mean well, I don't anticipate much success with that particuluh tactic. --ColonelBooterCooter 17:50, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

How long does it take you to write like that And yeah fair enough with all the points, but we got sick of waiting around for someone to have an opinion and just went about putting our plan into place with the manpower we have.--xoxo 00:49, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

If [b]four fucking days [/b]was too long to wait, then there is no way any argument would have dissuaded you. Have fun in the junkyards. We'll try to help you as we can, but maintaining War Crescent comes first to us. Ignatz 00:56, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Well sorry, Colonel, but we did not know that you guys were a serious and active group, considering that there is not much representation of you on this wiki. We also did not know that any of the revive points in place were effective. The ideas were all a proposal, and when we did not get the reply we just kept on assuming that you were all not too serious about this game. If you read what Nick has said, you see that he has given reasons why he thinks his proposal would be more effective and then how he plans to initiate and complete it. In no way is it saying that your revive points are bad. 8-10 is respectable. We just believe that these new points would increase the productivity, based on our experience in a definately more advanced suburb. So we placed it on this community wiki page so that everyone could view it and have their say. In the US (which I am not from, btw), if you do not vote, you have no right to complain about the election of a certain candidate. This rule applies almost everywhere on this wiki and it is proved very effective. I don't think that we have said anything out of order, we have simply made a proposal. We are just used to suburbs that run a very efficient community on the wiki, rather than individual groups that play pretty much for themselves, allowing the odd revive in their established revive point that only happens because nobody else takes initiative to create better revive points. If you cannot handle someone coming in with new ideas, just say so. It is your "this town ain't big enough for the two of us" mentality that has lead to this place being fairly dead and sub-standard. We were just trying to make it fun, bit of a revamp, bit of colour. Penny=Bail.--MichaelRead 11:48, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

That's not precisely what I said, suh -- in fact, it's a bit far off the point. Without puttin' too fine a point on it, the summation of what I was sayin' was this: you are dealin' with laid-back but dedicated natives who just sort of do things their own way, and you're kind of bein' a bit of a patronizin' sonofabitch about it. I get that you're used to workin' unduh more intense circumstances, and I can respect that; Ah've been to more heavily traumatized suburbs and seen the worst, and Ah've been to more organized suburbs and seen efficienceh in action. No one's tellin' you that there's no room in town for you -- the problem is that no one really cares enough where that'd actualleh be an opinion held in this part of town. You're not goin' to find heavily organized groups in Penneh Heights because it's just nevuh historically been that kind of suburb. While I can certainleh see the merit of your plan, it requires a lot of change (somethin' that folks around here aren't quick to adopt, sensible or not) and the abandonment of current functionin' systems (which I conjuh was not somethin' you were aware of, and I don't hold it against you). As for not seein' a lot of us around the Wiki, I expect that has a lot to do with our lackadasical attitude toward gettin' anything of import done. We never claimed to be major playuhs, just old school survivuhs, and we're not partial to takin' an active hand in plottin' out the bigguh picture. That shouldn't stop anyone else from doin' so -- Lord forbid everyone were as small-time -- but it does mean we're really only goin' to contribute to such an effort if it matches up to our mandate, which this does not. We wish you well of it, that's for certain, but we'll keep our revive point beacon lit and just keep goin' on as we have, if it's all the same to you. --ColonelBooterCooter18:06, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

sounds fair enough. See you guys around Lumber and if you wouldn't mind droppin' in at the junky to poke a stray zed we'd be much obliged. *dips hat and rides off into the sunset*--xoxo 07:15, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Nice. Yeah OK I think we're seeing from each other's perspectives here. The current arrangement (junkyard, Churchous and War Crescent) should work out. We'll see how this junkyard goes and maybe we can organise with UD Fark to open up a junkyard near Churchous... Although I have one major beef with you Colonel - there ain't nearly enough hoedowns around these parts. I know GomerPyle41's a fiddler ;)--Nick 08:47, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

a kiddie fiddler!!! LOLOLOLOLOL.--xoxo 08:58, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually I was hinting at "wanker" but pedophile works too. You filthy pedo, Tim.--Nick 10:06, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunateleh, you misguess mah personaliteh. Ah'm not really the hoedown type; while I hate to put upon mahself any airs of pretention, Ah was raised a gentleman, and will ever comport mahself in a dignified and refahned mannuh. While I do not begrudge the common man his unadorned revelreh, mah own experience lies heavily in formal occasions with an air of courtleh pageantreh. --ColonelBooterCooter17:15, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

u r gai.--MichaelRead 06:28, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

If Ah am, at least Ah have that to fall back upon when detailin' any lack of faciliteh with women. You, on the other hand, have only your winnin' personaliteh to blame. Ah believe that in that instance, Ah would rathuh be me than you. --ColonelBooterCooter 07:23, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh wow....haha. If you took offense to "u r gai" then my work here is done. You already look stupid enough..--MichaelRead 12:59, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Not offense, suh, only sadness. The preponderance of that particulah utterance only brings me sadness, as I find it a weak and lifeless statement. Ah'm not even pahticulahleh certain why you resorted to it, as Ah don't see the need. Also, you may want to pay closuh attention to how these posts are arranged, with the colons (that'd be the two dots) before each post; it's what keeps them tiered as they are, and you keep neglectin' to place yours, leavin' me to do so aftuhward. It's a fairly simple wiki mechanic, which I'm certain even you can mastuh without much effort.--ColonelBooterCooter 03:26, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I do know how to use the colons. I have been on this wiki for a long time. I also know that you eventually run out of room, so by starting a new set, you are actually making the posts more tidy. On to the other point, it wasn't needed. Thats why I said it. The conversation died, it became no fun. So I wrote in internet word speak to see if you would take the bait. You did, and now this is fun again. If I actually wanted to accuse you of being gay, I would have typed it in plain english.--MichaelRead 09:15, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

And Ah am slightleh confused as to why you would even bothuh, as there are many avenues of convuhsation you could pursue that would be both more interestin' and more entertainin' than this one. I wasn't offended by your statement, but rathuh confused by it, as it was both weakly done and arbitrareh. As you state you meant it simpleh as bait to goad me into a more liveleh convuhsation, Ah suppose it did its job. Howevuh, Ah believe mah part in this dialogue is done -- I'm quite frankleh not amusin' enough to keep you occupied, so Ah will not attempt that specific Sisyphean task. You may feel free to have the last word on this subject; mahself, Ah'll be goin' back to my regularleh-scheduled revahvin'. --ColonelBooterCooter 16:45, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Thats good coz u r gai.--MichaelRead 09:53, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Revive point stuff moved from the News

March 3^rd

Junkyard 98,76 is in the process of opening as Penny Height's newest Revive Point. This new RP will be useful in providing essential revivification services to residents of Lumber Mall while being within striking distance of The Rothwell Building. The Beatbox Kids would be grateful if any available local residents could help spread the word about Junkyard 98,76 around the area using mediums such as graffiti, speech, radio and metagaming. Also those with the required skills could please help with keeping the junkyard barricade free and keeping the revive queue short. Thanks!--xoxo 08:13, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

March 2^nd

Everyone interested is asked to read and comment on the possible relocation of Penny Heights' revive points here. Also, locals are reminded to keep all radios in Penny Heights and both malls at 27.11 MHz.--Nick 09:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Hiccup in Sidebar

In the right-hand standardized sidebar, the small graphic showing "Penny Heights location in Malton" has a horizontal yellow bar, but no vertical yellow bar - thus no green "intersection" point is visible, and PH only appears to lie somewhere along that horizontal bar.

Not hard for vet's to figure out, but for a newb it's pretty useless. Don't have time to fix it myself, but someone should.--Swingin' Sam 04:14, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Fixed. I used the Houldenbank suburb page and compared them to find out the problem.--Nick 04:49, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh Nicholas. You're so smart. ilyxoxox--MichaelRead 00:22, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

The Beatbox Kids open letter to the residents of Penny Heights

Greetings, from the BBK. As of this week, the Beatbox Kids have reunited, and decided to settle in your suburb to start our new crusade against the Un-Dead. Our lists of achievements and experiences include:

• Defending of the highly populated and traffic filled Santlerville for close to a year, as well as being the second largest group in the area for quite a while. (Largest group being The Dribbling Beavers.
• Frequent Wiki use, as well as the maintaining of news, barricade and revive details on Santlervilles wiki page.
• High Levels of experience, all current members are level 41 and once everybody makes the trip, there should be ten to fifteen of us.
• Experience in defending neighbouring suburbs of Pashenton, Huntley Heights and even trips as far as Galbraith Hills to help defend against zombie sieges.
• Have worked in large numbers, at one point having close to 40 members of our own, as well as working closely with other groups from Santlerville in numbers of high proportions.

We hope to come in to your suburb and provide a little direction and protection against any attacks for the future.

We hope you accept us in to your suburb and join us in the fight against the un-dead.

The Beatbox Kids.--MichaelRead 09:34, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Ah'm curious as to whethuh you Beatbox Kids are keepin' an eye out for murderous predators and the like. Ah ask this because Ah'm lookin' to see what kind of useful information we should be exchangin' between us. Ah'm eaguh to see what you can bring to the suburb, and whethuh or not the Lumbuhjacks can be of any assistance. -- ColonelBooterCooter23:52, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

not so much with the murderous predators, although we have been a bit perturbed by the whole dragonhead vs bigger mortice war. should they be revived? if so which group. Whats the lumberjacking view? Both groups have been nothing but pleasant to us.--xoxo 08:16, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Bigguh Mortice has actively PKed us in the past, whereas Dragonhead has only killed Bigguh Mortice membuhs. We're not officially allied with Dragonhead, but considerin' the circumstances, we lean towards supportin' them in their vendetta inasmuch as we don't particuluhleh enjoy dyin'. -- ColonelBooterCooter 15:23, 11 March 2008 (UTC)