Talk:Guides:Managing Encumbrance

Toolbox

Much more useful than a flak jacket. And you've suggested possible setting preferences, in which you've discarded flareguns, but kept decorations - The perfect example of heavy, pointless items.

Oh, and recommend a DSS satellite phone instead of a mobile phone. No encumbrance, same effect. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:09, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh and don't forget the 99%, then get a genny trick to maximise carrying capacity. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:10, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I've got plans for discussing Toolbox. IMO it's not an essential item in the sense that it doesn't need to be carried at all times. It can be dropped when you don't plan on doing repairs and easily found again later. That's what this guide will focus on mainly. Don't carry stuff that you don't plan on using. "Just in case" items clog up inventory and encumbrance. I'm kind of stopped in the middle of that section last night so its not complete but I'll add info about changing settings on the fly. Toolbox is one of those that you don't want to pick up and accidentally forget to drop. So if you need one, tick the box. Once you've found it, untick the box.

As far as my screenshot, I forgot to uncheck Christmas Decorations. Flare guns are mostly useless IMO. I'm sure there is a niche for them but they are heavy and just aren't essential. You can survive just fine without them. If you like using them, then you'll need to adjust the numbers I'll be putting in this guide accordingly. ~ 18:24, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I understand the essential argument, but in all honesty, flaks are equally unimportant. How often in your life have you been pk'd? Have you ever stopped shooting someone because they've got a flak jacket on? Vinetown scout is my only (non zombie) alt with a flak jacket, and then only for manhunts. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 20:13, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Ok yeah I see what you mean. I have a Flak jacket I wear at all times but in all honesty, it only causes the occasional PKer some grief while shooting at me. I'll consider just dropping it from the guide. ~ 20:53, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Its like a toolbox. Grab it if you need it, ditch it if you don't. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 20:56, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, except its easier to say to yourself "I'm going to do some repairs. I need a toolbox" than "I'm going to be PK'd. I need a Flak Jacket" since you never really know when a PKer is going to hit you. There are cases where you'll be more prone to PKing like in manhunts and such or entering suburbs where PKing is prevalent. I guess I can work that in somehow. ~ 21:00, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Not really, unless you're tracking zombies, especially the larger hordes, you never know when you will encounter a ruin. Flaks are only worth it when you're being specifically targeted by a group or individual. They're both about predicting the future behaviour of others. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:05, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Hmm...interesting point. Usually, when I look for a toolbox its when my suburb is ruined or I enter a ruined suburb, not in any type of preparation for possible ruining. It goes back to having "Just in case" inventory. You're much better off having an inventory geared towards actions you know you will take rather than actions you think you might take. I can see Flaks fall easily into that last category. ~ 21:21, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I think it really boils down to the fact that survivor as a whole never really reflect on what they really need. I think I had flaks on all my characters for a year before I realised I never gained any benefit. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:23, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm going to eventually add a section about items typically considered an "essential" which in reality are quite non-essential. I think I'll add flaks to it. Thanks for the input on that. ~ 22:11, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Flak Jacks are hugely relevant if you have a playing style that makes you shot very often, i.e. dual nature (in their zambah time), pro-zombie (if they don't have rot), death-cultist, PKer, bounty hunter, zerg hunter. Survivors? They are not. Unless you play with a survivor group that considers aggravating PKers as an important part of their "role-playing", or are a survivor zerg in an area that gets regularly visited by zerg hunters. In which case you should probably still better ditch the group (or quit cheating), than to pick up the flak jack. -- Spiderzed▋ 00:59, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

That's why I had originally placed Flaks as essential but as this is a more survivor centric guide I've removed it. I may add a section about PKing, but it can be assumed that if that's your play style, then modify your base encumberance to account for a flak just likenyou would a radio. ~ 01:59, 6 March 2011

To go all the way back to the original comment... Although a toolbox may be more useful to a survivor surely the difference of weight between a Flak Jacket and toolbox should be considered. The Flak Jacket costs 1 FAK or other 2% item, the toolbox costs 8 FAKs or some combination of items equaling 16%. Since toolboxes don't get used up, you can't do the 100+% trick, unless you drop it and re-find it. Not saying either is essential gear (although if you plan on being near a mall you can expect to be PKed), but I've survived PK attempts because of a Flak Jacket. I've never been saved by a toolbox. --Kirsty cotton 23:02, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Of course you have! Surely your character enjoys standing in unruined building? Barricades save many more lives than flak jackets. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 23:05, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Barricades are the greatest weapon of survivors; however, I don't have to repair every building where I sleep and if I do I can go find a toolbox when I am actually online. Players are moving around 24 hours a day repairing buildings. The odds the building is repaired before I happen on it is good. The odds of someone FAKing me while I am being shot or me logging on, not so great. --Kirsty cotton 23:27, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm assuming you're talking about your non-pker alts here? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 23:34, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I am. I actually carry a toolbox and flak jacket. I just think with the small cost of the Flak Jacket versus the toolbox, it is easier to justify a flak jacket "just in case." Especially characters that are lower level and need XP, and I'm assuming that is the target audience. --Kirsty cotton 23:41, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Its an interesting debate but I'm in agreeance with Kristy's comments below about players deteriming what is essential to them. I had planned on making that more explicit but I think I can just ditch the idea that certain items are essential to certain play styles. The guide will be much more flexible if it just gives suggestions for a getting to a good starting number. ~ _{00:10, 11 March 2011}

Focus

Speaking of playing styles, unless expanded this guide should be moved to Guides:Managing Encumbrance For Survivors. My PKer and my death-cultists would never carry a DNA extractor, and my cultists would never carry an emergency FAK. That is valuable ammo space that gets wasted! Oh, and my cultists consider a knife far more important than an axe. -- Spiderzed▋ 00:59, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

It is a survivor guide but I'm not changing the title. ~ 01:44, 6 March 2011 01:44, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

You ought to. Because right now I take issue with this as what is presented as a blanket guide to inventory management. --DT^PK 06:36, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Really? Because it seems the only issue you two are taking with it so far is that I've chosen a few items that are more to the benefit of a traditional survivor. How about some constructive criticism on how to make it a more universal guide instead of just saying change the title. ~ 06:55, 8 March 2011

In the past I have covered those topics for PKers and for death-cultists. Dual Natures follow pretty much the survivor model, only that their time spent as zombies makes the flak jack more desireable. Bounty Hunters follow pretty much the PKer model but for a stronger emphasis on gennies and fuel (most PKer hide in the dark). Dedicated rotters are limited to radios and some weapons as useable items. -- Spiderzed▋ 12:02, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks man. I think I over-reacted to some of your comments before and I apologize. I get defensive of my survivor play-style some times since survivors are often viewed as weak or trenchy or we just bitch about stuff. I can see that's not what you're doing and you've given some good feedback and I'm sure DT was just reacting to my own over-reaction. I've come up with some ways to make this guide less "survivorish". Sure, it'll probably have some survivor POV in it but it'll be far from trenchy. Hopefully it will be universal enough that it can be used by any who reads it. If not, let me know and I'll work to make it a little more open ended. ~ 15:23, 8 March 2011

Starting Characters

All new characters start with a base encumbrance of 0%
Only true for corpses. All other classes have some sort of starting equipment. -- Spiderzed▋ 00:59, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Good point. I'll change it up to take that into account. ~ 01:45, 6 March 2011

You can probably lose wirecutters from your list. Both pointless and undiscoverable. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 14:36, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I swiped the list from Encumbrance which may or may not be complete. The only thing that I know for sure needs to be added is tinsel, which I will add now. ~ _{18:05, 9 March 2011}

Essential Items

I think the essential items table Guides:Managing_Encumbrance#Base_Encumbrance is somewhat misleading, since it makes some odd assumptions (like assuming the survivor favors melee weapons, only carrying one FAK, PKers with only 1 gun). Really everything is optional, and only having one needle doesn't do much toward making you a combat reviver. I know you are trying to avoid recommending useless and "just in case" equipment and keeping everything simple. But it might be better to address action based inventory (like you do later), then give a few examples of functional essentials for different goals. Start from a what type of actions you plan to do then move on to essentials based on your goal rather than starting with certain items because you are a survivor. Oddly enough the survivor is the category that suffers most since there are many ways to play a survivor. All you really need do is to steal the action based categories, which are more descriptive and use them in the table. Also, GKers use knives, trust me. :P --Kirsty cotton 22:48, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I know the guide is a little akward rght now. I rethought the scope and madensome big changes basednon discussion above but I started in the middle. I plan on going back to the top and cleaning up a bit once I have the meaty middle done. I'll keep your suggestions in mind. I'm then going to add a advanced section at the bottom where I'll discuss reloading tricks, 99% trick and dss phone. ~ _{23:31, 10 March 2011}

From Developing Guides

I am submitting my guide for comments now rather than after crunching the numbers for maximum item amounts. I don't want to have to crunch numbers twice if there is a major change. --~ _{15:33, 15 March 2011}

Comments

Maybe you should also have a small section about the items that are still useable for zombies, to cover pro-zombie rotters as well. For the most part, those are handheld radios (must be tuned while alive). Further, there are flak jackets (only relevant for non-rotters) and some of the melee weapons (more for lulz or novelty, since natural zombie weapons are always superior). Not sure about GPS Units - do they still show the coordinates in the "Drop Item" drop-down menu? Regardless, the best course of action for an efficient rotter who a.) doesn't care about novelty weapons and b.) has a GPS script is to grab 25 handheld radios and tune them all to different channels. That is enough to listen to all 19 mall/fort channels (covering the majority of all radio traffic) and still having some wiggling room for local channels. I'm certain TripleU could give more info on sensible channel choices, since he actually runs a rotter with plenty of radios. -- Spiderzed▋ 09:15, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Hmm...let me see how I can work that in. BTW the max number of handheld radios any character can carry is 16 because of the inventory slot limit. The limit is 81 and radios take 5 slots each (5 * 16 = 80). ~ _{14:09, 16 March 2011}

I've added a part about zombie inventory. ~ _{15:28, 17 March 2011}

Things you could simplify

Under "The basics:"

"Getting to know encumbrance costs" probably doesn't need its own subheading, and it would be more useful to (mostly) ignore candy for a practical discussion of encumbrance cost (since any useful item will have an encumbrance cost, and a zero cost item is therefore not relevant to folks' planning). "Small costs add up" is a common sense statement, and while it might bear repeating in this guide, probably doesn't deserve its own subheading- or even more than one sentence. It would probably be better to just remind people later in the guide, while discussing the inventory builds you put up, that small costs add up. You might also toss in a mention of where your encumbrance is listed. You could reduce those two bits to something like this, without losing any important information:

"Almost every item in Malton has an encumbrance cost associated with it. The typical cost of items ranges from 2% - 20%. Your current encumbrance is listed below the last item in your inventory, and once your character reaches 100% encumbrance, you won't be able to pick up any more items (with the exception of some decorative holiday items). Knowing the costs of items before searching can help you to plan and manage your encumbrance."

"Essential items" and "Establishing base encumbrance" are basically discussing the same thing, and could be merged. But as I look at the format, I want to make a structural criticism: you open this section with an explanation of encumbrance, and its role in the game, then begin to explain how to manage it- dividing "the basics" into basic answers for "what is encumbrance?" and "how do I manage encumbrance?"- then your next two sections, intermediate and advanced tactics, tackle further methods for managing encumbrance. I would argue that all of the strategies discussed in this guide are fairly straightforward, and it's not necessary to characterize them in terms of their difficulty from basic, to intermediate, to advanced. I think it would be more clear if "The basics" contained only a discussion of the basic role of encumbrance in the game, and the "intermediate" and "advanced" subheadings were eliminated altogether- instead using individual subheadings only to distinguish between specific strategies for managing encumbrance, e.g.:

The basics, followed by;

Search Settings, a section explaining the most basic strategy for managing inventory and encumbrance- etc.

And besides that, the content of "Action oriented inventory" and "Avoid 'Just in case' inventory" could be reduced and folded into "Calculating inventory"; "Other Notes" should either be scrapped, or have "Encumbrance saving scripts" moved into it. If "Inventory slots" is all that falls under the subheading, though, you should just use the subheading "Inventory slots." "Appendix A" is a misleading title, given that there are no other appendices. Since a list of items and their weight/encumbrance cost is already available in the main article on encumbrance, it might be better to link to that list than to include another table here. Your list is much prettier, so I replaced the one on that page with yours (with a small edit to include wirecutters, useless as they are).

I do hope you're not annoyed that I'm suggesting such substantial changes to the structure of the guide- I like the core content, I just think it could be presented more neatly.--FT 16:39, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

1256% encumberance

what's the highest recorded encumbrance witnessed on ud?   ▧  ^{: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :} 11:08, 3 November 2012 (UTC)