Talk:5th of November/2012

Dangermap Gallery

I don't know what Johnny's initial plan was for the gallery, but I think it would be better to have a separate image for each update so that we can see how the suburb changed over the course of this 5th of November event. --Klexur 02:21, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

So... what, just save as a different file name? -Charles Whipplebotum 02:58, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately I couldn't find an easy way to link to previous versions of image files through the wiki. I went ahead and reverted the image and re-uploaded your newer one. --Klexur 03:31, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Klexur is right, that was my plan indeed :) PB&J 09:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Consider uploading them at higher resolutions so you will have more options down the road (like if you want to make a movie for example.) -MHSstaff 17:00, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I know what you are thinking Johnny Twotoes

You are thinking about staying at that old Blackmore place and reviving your friends. I came here to talk ya out of it. What you are thinking of doing, Johnny, it has been done before. Old man V tried it in 2006. And in 2007. And in 2008. And in 2009. And in 2010. He tried to bring ’em all back. But sometimes Johnny, what you revive ain’t what comes back. It might look like a real-life thinkin’ person but it’s not Johnny. It’s a Level 43 survivor. Sometimes Johnny, undead is better. Undead is better. -MHSstaff 17:00, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, you're scaring me :P Anyway, this wasn't really my idea but I like where it is heading, and as an Assistant Instructor at the Academy, it's a great way for our cadets to meet new people ;) PB&J 18:46, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

PS: nice reference, took me a while to recognize it (and I didn't want to look up the link you provided, felt like cheating)

I was hoping you would catch the reference! -MHSstaff 19:44, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Hey Rookie…

Yeah, you wearing the Creedy tags. Come over here.

Feeling a little nervous? I know man, I know. I know exactly what is going through your mind. You are thinking “Man, if we don’t take this suburb, humanity is totally f*cking screwed.”

Don’t worry man. We’ve all been there. That’s why before these big “Final Penultimate Survivor Victory” events, I like to use something to take the edge off, to give me that extra boost I need to power through to victory.

Synthetic human growth hormone.

I’m talking a 30% increase in fast-twitch muscle response. I’m talking unparalleled muscle growth. I’m talking like 0 to EHB in two seconds. How does that sound Rook?

I thought you’d like that. Just imagine, when those zeds come through, lighting up your Windows 7 Box like a Christmas tree, you’ll be ready, mashing that barricade and attack buttons until there is nothing left but a bunch of dumped corpses and some stunned onlookers thinking “Man, I didn’t know you could do that on a browser-based MMO game.”

That’s right Rook. You’ll save your group. You’ll save humanity. And you’ll get the girl.

Drug tests? What if you get caught using PEDs?

Man, don’t worry about it. I got you covered. This shit is totally undetectable by Kevan’s mandatory, post-event drug tests. It’ll just be our little secret. So, Rook? How about it? Think about it, and when you are ready to take your game to the next level, we'll talk. -MHSstaff 19:42, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm here now

The place looks ridiculously repaired. --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 20:43, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Why would it be repaired? I mean, this doesn't start until the 5th right? Right? -MHSstaff 20:52, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I just wanted to eat someone. --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 21:34, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I know! I just got headshot by a brainrotted survivor. Why? Why do they hate us? We are soft and cuddly and non-violent and stuff!-MHSstaff 21:39, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I can't even open doors. The beastly harmans! --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 21:43, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Part of me is actually considering coming outside for a big group hug... PB&J 21:44, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Whatever hater. Do you remember how we welcomed you into our suburb, and then you locked us out of our homes and said we couldn't come in and murder you? I thought you cared about us. And you want to throw it all that away? Just because you want to go on breathing? Meanie. -MHSstaff 21:55, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I know why you're here, MHS. I know what you've been doing... why you hardly sleep, why you live alone, and why night after night, you sit by the ruins. You're looking for it. I know because I was once looking for the same thing. And when I found it, it told me I wasn't really looking for it. I was looking for an answer. It's the question that drives us, MHS. It's the question that brought you here. You know the question, just as I did. PB&J 21:58, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Its alright. I got inside. Tried to give Jonny a hug, but these claws are next to useless. --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 21:59, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

So that was you? Too kind, too kind ;) PB&J 22:01, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

All about the personal service. --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 22:16, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

God, I've got to say. I'm a level one zombie. I've been inside 4 times in the last day, and I've been headshot 4 times. In this time I haven't seen a single combat revive. What the deuce? --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 15:07, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Don't look at me, I go with the old traditions whenever I can ;) PB&J 17:08, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Finally been scanned. THANK YOU. Now what you should be doing is sorting out a specific time in IRC to drop a genny and do a mass combat revive. Or stand around and get eaten. --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 00:42, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Do trenchies even carry generators and fuel? It takes up precious Shotgun encumberance. I'm suprised they have DNA Extractors.--Akbar 04:03, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Trigger Happy

A little trigger happy are we? Contrary to Roddy's assertation, I am not "here to PK". In fact I had spent half a dozen AP just an hour previous on cades. I have prayed feverently to Rando, her will is clear. I shall defend Blackmore until my dying breath. And in death, I will follow my instincts. On which side will you have me standing, defenders of Blackmore? James Slimm 22:21, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Pray for a stab, and it may be a good idea to mention you're not here to kill. Some people tend to get overzealous when they see a bounty on someone's head... ;) PB&J 22:24, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I hear you man. They pulled something similar on us. At first they were like "Hey, we are like having this totally awesome party on the 5th and you should totally come by." And we were like "No way! We'll be there and we'll bring chips!" And they were like "Awesome! Bring Doritos!" And then they shot us and threw us out into the streets just because we wanted to eradicate their entire species. I mean, what the hell? -MHSstaff 22:29, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Should've brought dip. PB&J 22:31, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Aye, I had logged in to do just that but found myself quite dead. The message above should have been delivered in person. I did manage to get back inside but my friendly mrh? fell on deaf ears. Perhaps my next steps inside will earn me a stab, as you put it. For now, enjoy some Jimmy gore on your fresh cades. James Slimm 22:52, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough, I hope to stab you the moment you're inside ;) PB&J 22:54, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Ridleybank has already been repaired...

Ridleybank is repaired and you still want me to bring revive syringes and generators? F*ck that. I am bringing my shotgun. I'm the sexiest thing ever to happen to UrbanDead. I bet I can clean up this whole city with just twenty shells and my rock hard abs. And even if I can't, it doesn't really matter. Because I'm going to look great doing it.

God damn. Did you see how I blew that head off that one zed? It exploded like a f*cking watermelon. Yeah that safehouse just got overrun but who cares. I just crushed two zombies with my bulging pecs. Damn. I am sexy. I bet you want me. I bet you want me right now.

Shit. Did zombies just drag Susan screaming out into the street? Don't worry Susan. Those aren't screams of pain. Those are screams of desire. God she looks great. I bet she is watching me right now dive off this skyscraper into that horde below. Oh man. Did you see how I blew up those six zeds with a flare gun? God I am one sexy beast.

Damn. They killed Susan. Well, that's ok. You can't save everyone when you are trying to look good. Look, this isn't a war. This is about the future of humanity. Revive queues? Lame. Metastrategy? Lamer. Safehouses? What is this, My Little Zombie Pony? Look, Malton isn't going to save itself. It needs people like me. People who are sexy enough to grab a shotgun and look great shooting it. Your safehouse got overrun? Yeah, well, deal with it and be glad that you were lucky enough to watch me in action. I am liquid sex.

Look, I don't care about your plan. If it doesn't involve looking good on top of a pile of shotgun-blasted corpses, I don't want to hear it. I am not doing this for you. I am doing this for me, and for all the little kids who are tired of dealing with lame-ass groups who don't know the first thing about shotguns and looking good while shooting shotguns. I'll be over by the Rodgers Building. Let me know when you are serious about making a difference. -MHSstaff 21:03, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Not that I don't appreciate a good reference left and right, but please don't clutter the talk page with it ;) Thank you. PB&J 21:05, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

:(-MHSstaff 21:08, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Try them ingame? Pretty sure those speeches would look nice in the middle of a cade breach ;) PB&J 21:09, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

:( :( :( :(. Have fun with your event! It looks awesome! -MHSstaff 21:11, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Why all the sad faces? Just join us, breathing or undead, all are welcome :P PB&J 21:15, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

This is as much our event as it is yours, and you're in our home (which you'd do well to remember), so we'll comment creatively here as much as we like, thank you very much. --TWO HEADED SEX BEAST 21:19, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Seeing as it was a tough decision to choose between my survivor and my RRF alt for this event, yeah, I'll try and keep that in mind... PB&J 21:24, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Have fun with it then, enjoy it whilst it lasts. I know I did when I sieged Blackmore as a survivor in 2010 (whilst also a member of the RRF). But we didn't tell have the gall to the RRF not to post on a talk page, or not contribute their thoughts and opinions or writing, because... we're all part of the same event, just on different sides, and this creative back and forth is what helps make the siege more fun than if it was just some dour game mechanics based grind-fest. And I frankly love MHSstaff's writing). --TWO HEADED SEX BEAST 21:36, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Pretty sure I was polite and didn't really obstruct the creative back and forth here? I thought MHS and me were on the same page here, not sure if that's the case, but if not: I apologize. :) As I said, I love that stuff as much as the next guy, but it's something best savored in limited quantitites at a time, to make them more memorable. Considering "having the gall to tell the RRF not to post on a talk page", that just never happened... PB&J 21:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Winka Memorial Page

Since you guys took Blackmore in memory of Winka, might be worthwhile to save screenshots of that, especially if you did a dedication in game to her memory for Marcel's page. -MHSstaff 21:28, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Not a bad idea, I'll see what I can get my hands on ;) PB&J 21:34, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Definitely do if you can, especially if it is written well and in a format that her family could appreciate. -MHSstaff 21:36, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Of course :) PB&J 21:41, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Survivors, did you know ...

that Ridleybank is a community built upon the foundations of peace and understanding, one that looks to foster meaningful interactions between zombies and humans? While we are excited that you have chosen Ridleybank as your new home, we ask that you leave behind your biases and prejudices and work with us to establish a bold new community, one that inspires a new spirit of zombie-human cooperation. Leave behind your hatred, for everyone in Ridleybank ---zombies and humans alike--- are treated as equals; there is nothing we can't accomplish if we work together. Most importantly, leave behind your weapons as they tend to jam our industrial-sized meat grinders. -MHSstaff 20:35, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Peace! Not war! But peace! I mean, you guys aren't like against peace and stuff, right? -MHSstaff 20:41, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

yo, mhs, why the spam? A ZOMBIE ANT 09:15, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Spam? I am just greeting and welcoming our new harman friends to the neighborhood. Someone has to! Also I just saw you in-game! Killing a zombie! It was awesome! -MHSstaff 18:02, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Awesome seeing you in-game that is and not the killing a zombie part. That was terrible. That zombie had a family. And you just killed them. Murderer. -MHSstaff 18:10, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Parity

Just for the record the current tally in blackmore is 51 survivors, 51 zombies. --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 09:59, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm surprised there are survivors left. I was hoping for a better plan than just log in whenever and shoot. Alas survivors, you have disappointed me again. -- _{Org XIII} ^Alts 11:57, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I was scratching my head too but it seems like its more of a 'martyr' act connected with holding the building as long as humanly possible- at least for the 24 hour period of the 5th, which they've managed to do (congrats guys) although at this point one could claim that the zombies technically hold it as they outnumber survivors now. A ZOMBIE ANT 12:38, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to write up my own thoughts at some point. It's been a very strange event. --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 12:50, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

IMO, once the cades were down and it was obvious there was no plan to get them up, it was over. Anything after that is just waiting on zombies to have AP to finish it. Plus, WTF is with the headshots? This is why I always end up killing survivors when I try to play nice. Also, I'm working on this, not an assessment of what happened but I was thinking "why the hell aren't they..." -- _{Org XIII} ^Alts 12:59, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

ooh, sexy. Good start, mine was looking more at objectives, public statements, and the various forum stuff. --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 13:06, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

My take (and Team Survivor can correct this) was that Team Survivor wanted to get a lot of groups together, have a stand-up, knock'em out gorefest, and kick it back casually while holding the building for the 5th. Which they did! -MHSstaff 18:34, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, that seems to be the message. Ive started collecting a few quotes on my talk page. I was expecting a siege, I got a meatshield buffet. --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 18:40, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I hate to say it, but I can't help but agree with Ross right now :( I'm pretty sure it's partially thanks to the no-Combat Revive policy many groups have, which they forgot to mention shouldn't apply here... PB&J 19:50, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I need to work out the sums on how efficient revives would have to be for this to work. Do some groups still have a no revive policy? I'd love a list. I'd like to convince them otherwise. --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 20:04, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

You're joking right? You actually have to calculate this? This is hardly the cutting edge of strategy anymore. This is a Necrotech. 1 person drops genny, fuels it, then camps the Repair button. At present, you'd need 11 people with 5 needles, in IRC, in a coordinated strike to clear Blackmore, 1-2 more to cade, and 0 to clear because that's unnecessary. Getting at the very most 15 people into an IRC channel with 5 needles each when you have 70+ organized survivors should, and cannot be, any harder than simply "Asking them to get on IRC".

However, I (and basically everyone else who's watching from next door, waiting to kill off the wounded) have absolutely zero confidence that the assembled leadership of the current Pro-Survivor groups can achieve such a thing. They have never proven themselves in sieges, show absolutely no interest in strategy, tactics, or playing intelligently. With the possible (and currently very disappointing) exception of the The Fortress, there is not one group involved in this whom I would trust to keep a piece of candy out of the grasp of a newborn, much less Blackmore free of zombies.

This "Oh, we only meant to hold until the 5th, now we have won" is highly entertaining, even if it began as tongue-in-cheek. It's such a blatant attempt to save face by moving the goal-posts that I feel genuinely sorry for the people who came to Blackmore with the expectation of a prolonged Siege, and are prepared to die in the Meatshield for it. This is compounded by the fact that almost every single survivor leader involved in this can now be found in the buildings outside Blackmore, apparently under the impression that they came to Ridleybank to avoid dying.

Of course, this behavior isn't surprising, coming from the brilliant minds of those who "planned" this event a month in advance but never thought to suggest an all Needle-FAK-Generator inventory to their horde of followers. Had they done so, with say 20ish needles, mostly FAKs, and a generator each+fuel, they would almost certainly have held Blackmore from the RRF. For how long? Well, I can't really say, but they would have repelled with ease the incursion which has kept Blackmore with its door wide open since the 4rth, and would have continued repelling incursions of up to around 50, as the RRF has been unable to eat everyone inside with those numbers.

In short, this has been one of the most miserably executed assaults on Blackmore to date, particularly given the scale and diversity of participation. It's obvious that no thought was put into taking the building beyond bumrushing it, without any alteration to the survivors' inventories. I hope you all die screaming to the zombies and painfully to my colleagues. You, your ignorance, and your apparently limitless incompetence have earned it.

Thank you for reading this edition of a DT Textwall, and Praise Knowledge. --DT^PK 20:33, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Roughly speaking, it costs 19AP to search for a needle, use it, and dump the body, and that's assuming you're in a perma-lit NT. It costs about 2.5x that amount to search for ammo, load your firearm, and kill a zombies over the long-term. The costs for a zombie to recover from CRing or getting headshot are roughly equal (unless they have to travel far to jump). That said, since every zombie you clear will need to break through the cades and step inside again, CRing's ability to clear 2.5x as many zombies with the same AP means that it's significantly more efficient. I.e. While the cost to each zombie is similar, you can simply clear more zombies, which costs their side more AP overall. And since barricades are a survivor's greatest weapon, pushing more zombies outside is always the best option for maintaining a successful siege. Of course, failing to maintain the 'cades will neutralize that advantage, though the quickest way to recover it is to clear all the zombies, and the best way to do that is still to use CRing since it clears zombies faster. —Aichon— 20:51, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

You've missed my point, The scenario I was trying to calculate was In a building where cade blocking meant that barricading was impossible how efficient would the survivors have to be at reviving themselves in order to make sure the building could never be ruined. --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 21:04, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Also I agree with pretty much everything stated by DT and Aichon. --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 21:05, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, fully-skilled zombies take an average of 35AP to make a kill against a 60HP survivor. Since Trangling Grasp is a pain to calculate accurately, let's just say it takes about 18AP to kill a survivor at 30HP. 18AP is, coincidentally, the exact same amount it takes to search for and use a syringe on average. Of course, you'll lose 2AP for having to stand twice (once as a zombie and again as a survivor), plus waste some more AP either searching in your likely-to-be-unlit NT or else travel to a lit one, plus even more on AP that goes to waste while waiting for a revive, so that pushes things to be even more of a zombie advantage, meaning that you'll need more survivors than zombies in order to break even (we'd have to make some assumptions about probabilities in order to get what the right number is). That said, while the amortized rate is in the zombie's favor, needles tend to get used in bursts, so survivors can carve out a little breathing room for themselves in the short-term if they engage in a coordinated revive. They'll still be behind overall unless they have more numbers, but it'll keep them going for another day or two.

Speaking of strategies, I seem to recall the RRF pinataing all the buildings around Blackmore during Blackmore 4(04), which made re-entering Blackmore a pain in the ass, since all of our entry points were overcaded (it also significantly hampered resupply efforts). It seems to me that it might actually make sense to designate a building next door to the siege as an indoor RP, then keep the place ruined, that way there's always a guaranteed EP. Just sayin' for future reference. —Aichon— 21:47, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

want to write a Ridley playbook with me? --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 21:59, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Getting people in IRC is nigh impossible for some odd reason (although Rennis set one up etc.), which I think is just miserable since I know how efficient they can be (since my time on the undead side of things)... To be really honest for the "planning a month in advance", the only real planning I could see was people trying to cram in as many people as possible, pretty sure that orders were only given on squad level (if at all). PB&J 22:22, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

That's what made Blackmore 4(04) so much fun. We had about 20 people active in IRC 24/7, more during peak hours, so we were able to be relatively effective. It's also what made Blackmore 4(04) so exhausting. There was a big sigh of relief from all of the survivors involved in IRC when it ended, since it was extremely draining to sustain that level of activity. None of us were exactly eager to repeat it again anytime soon. —Aichon— 22:36, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I might be up for something like that, though I wouldn't mind making it more general than Ridleybank. And there are definitely a few others we should grab as well (one of whom commented here already). It'd be great if we could get a complete account of what went down at this event (i.e. all of the reported actions from beginning to end), since that would help a lot with a few different types of calculations (e.g. whether a flak jacket is a good use of inventory space or not is dependent on the ratio of PKer:zombie kills). —Aichon— 22:36, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Ross, I'd be interested in comparing notes as I'm working on a fuck-everything-but-the-NT strategy. As for the month of planning, I have to believe Johnny, since 5 minutes of planning would have yielded better results. Note to survivors: this is why you fail, because you are stupid. Probably not individually, but as a group. I came for a siege not a buffet, but if buffet is all you got, I'm going eat. BARHAH! -- _{Org XIII} ^Alts 22:41, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Fucking get rid of Cade blocking Kevan, you dick. That is all. A ZOMBIE ANT 00:45, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Nah, it needs to exist otherwise it eliminates a big chunk of organization and strategy for zombies. It just needs to be tuned to scale differently. Right now it seems to scale linearly at an extremely fast rate based on the number of zombies. I think I'd prefer to see it scale based on the ratio of zombies:survivors instead, or perhaps scale based on a ratio instead of purely zombie numbers once survivors reach certain threshold values (i.e. <10 survivors behave like it is now, 10-50 get less interference, 50-100 get even less, 100+ get even less, and so on, that way it gets a bit more interesting and more of a tug of war back, without utterly nerfing strike teams, which should still be awesome). —Aichon— 03:59, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

6 survivors left. Can we run a raffle? --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 00:47, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

http://iamscott.net/1352249676367.html dammit missed it-- _{Org XIII} ^Alts 00:55, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Fucking cameron. --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 01:21, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I like how all of the PKers are critics all of a sudden. Thanks for nothing.Roddy Winters 02:04, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

To be fair, we didn't know you were *this* bad at being survivors until yesterday.--RadicalWhig 05:30, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

All of a sudden? The Philosophe Knights are founded upon the model of being critics of Pro-Survivors. The Flowers of Decay as well. Nothing has changed, except that you have become exceptionally bad at your chosen profession, and we are telling you the truth.

Had you come to us and asked our advice before you blundered in without a plan, we would have schooled you in strategy. You did not so much as approach any of us for the 5th. Don't blame us for your hideous failings.

Think next time you speak, and especially the next time you go toe-to-toe with the RRF, and Praise Knowledge. --DT^PK 05:58, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Pretty much what DT said. You could stand to take some advice from us, but your arrogance far overpowers your desire to learn. Maybe one day it will change and you will be able to actually fight organized zombies.--RadicalWhig 06:29, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Wow, talk about arrogance. So this is about you not getting invited to join in? You guys are like a nerdy kid kicking a guy that's already been knocked down, and then hiding behind the big boys again. Go ahead and talk yourselves up all you want, but that's what it boils down to. This entire section, and the Sith thing says quite a bit about who and what you guys are about.Roddy Winters 08:01, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid you're slightly incorrect. We were critical of this operation from the start. Contrary to what you might believe, we do not kill indiscriminately. Each bullet we fire is a purposeful statement of criticism. The fact that we had a presence there to "educate" you was evidence of the fact that we were critical of your operation. And not only are the Philosophe Knights founded on the idea of taking a critical stance towards typical pro-survivor "strategy", they also actively work on coming up with new, intelligent, viable strategies for survivors, and occasionally make use of daughter group(s) to test and execute those ideas. The Knights have a years-long history of not just being critics, but of also offering sound suggestions when their advice is solicited. More than that, we are liberal in sharing our counsel with others, since our goal is to encourage the pursuit of knowledge that comes from and results in intelligent behavior. That's the whole reason we "educate" people in the first place: to let them know that they're doing something stupid and could be doing it better. You lot of people were too foolish to even recognize the hot lead of criticism, let alone to realize that sound counsel was within your grasp. IV ^PK 07:18, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Wow, so much of what both sides are complaining about on this talk page is just that asinine. And that's coming from awful survivor # 509 DDR. A ZOMBIE ANT 08:27, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

I apologise for seeming abrasive but I don't see the point in such squabbling- especially from the PK, who at a quick glance seem more interested in telling survivors who are roleplaying at being dumb that they are dumb- then getting more frustrated when they are ignored (as if you wouldn't be, cause well, duh, they are being stupid for a piss-take, go figure, as if they care when someone role-playing an intellect makes note of it). I know people are going to say that they aren't roleplaying and are just being stupid but honestly, cmon. They stood there laughing as they got killed. Yeah, some were dumb for real but really these players were just taking the piss for a bit of fun at a yearly event (that to my understanding has always been about taking the piss. I could be wrong but jesus, drop everything and run into zombie heartland for a suicide repair? cmon).

I'm not trying to tell anyone they are wrong and I am enjoying the Sith of November build-up but in a game so starved of fun and events that every decent-sized one gets rampaged by every single entity in the game trying to jump in and 'leave their mark', I don't think PK or any other group are doing themselves any favours by trying to dissuade large-scale events happening regardless of intent or outcome. As shallow as this sounds, like Roddy Winters, yes it sounds like everyone is pissed off that people came expecting a big event and are just butthurt that they didn't get it because once the survivors reached their goal they gave it in with a laugh. Yeah, I turned up cause I heard about it on the day and was a 10AP walk to the event (stanbury rat ftw). When the day passed and everyone sat there I was pretty disappointing but what's the point in bitching and moaning, seriously. I'd suggest just killing em all (I can't wait, even if I'm on the menu!) in a big, fun, epic event and just be done with it. tldr, even the roleplaying seems like projecting at this point. toning it down will probably increase the fun for all sides involved. Hell, I'm keen for what's to come, but the serious business here is quickly sapping that enthusiasm. A ZOMBIE ANT 10:22, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

So, tell me DDR: Are you guys still roleplaying Dumb People, or have you finished? From the things you and Roddy are saying, I cannot be sure. Please respond ASAP. --DT^PK 15:53, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

• Yawn*, pretty sure I'd agree with some of your, and pretty sure I'd agree with others, but no use in flaming this page even more like we're Xbox and Playstation fanboys... We probably could have achieved something, held out longer, etc. but it wasn't meant to be. The mistakes have been exhaustively pointed out and I'm tired of checking this. I'll be finishing the page somewhere today or tomorrow and that'll be the end of it. I'll also try and stay out of the Order 66 guys hands as long as possible, although I hope they'll give me the chance for some last words before they end it :P PB&J 10:35, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Sigh

I knew this would be a flop, hence why I was nowhere near this. I guess this article about predicting the future does hold some truths, after all. But that's not the point. Anyways...Here's an interesting tidbit of information. I popped into the RRF's IRC channel for a few minutes in an attempt to get them behind this crazy experiment I thought up. You survivors should consider yourselves lucky the RRF didn't support my proposed experiment. Otherwise you survivors really would have been much more ignorant and arrogant than you already are. But you'll get a taste of the experiment soon enough in the future...It's definitely gonna come. ;) --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 04:53, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

generalising 50% of the population of malton as arrogant and ignorant. ironic A ZOMBIE ANT 04:59, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

That has delicious and sexy propagandistic implications. -MHSstaff 05:02, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm just saying they should consider themselves lucky the RRF didn't support my experiment. I mean, would you like to know how much badly they'd act if the RRF did support it, and they found out about it after this event was over? It's fun to play psychological games with people...Especially if science is behind it. Sort of. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 05:05, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

404 have been doing this for years Axe. --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 05:09, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

November 5th, 2012: The RRF deliberately fail to take Blackmore. For years later, survivors are puzzled as the great strategy that conquered the RRF fails them on every single other occasion. Finally, on April 1st, 2015, UrZombie, Papa of the RRF, explains to them the joke. By April 7th, 2015, a third of Malton's survivor population has hurled itself off of tall buildings, and do not get up, throwing the living/undead balance to a slim Zombie majority for the first time in years.

This preview brought to you by ALTERNATE REALITY FUTURES™, a window to a different world. --DT^PK 05:14, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I did take part. I feel like I was tricked like the Escape survivors. -- _{Org XIII} ^Alts 05:17, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Don't look at me. I did try to get you to work with the RRF (even though Irishmen told me he doesn't like commanding non-RRF folks). This is on you. The rest of Organization XIII stayed behind in Gat, mate. *rolls eyes* --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 05:24, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Ah shit. Did I miss the 5th of November Zambah Buffet and Grill already? The survivors worked so hard to feed them, it's a pity it's over already.--RadicalWhig 06:04, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Some numbers

The 'siege' lasted roughly 72 hours (from approximately 1AM GMT on Sunday until approximately 1AM GMT on Wednesday). The doors to the Blackmore Building were wide open for the vast majority of the latter 48 hours.

After tallying up character numbers seen in or around Blackmore from the start of the 'siege' until several hours after it had ended, there were 166 unique pro-survivors involved. 90-95% of these characters had been seen inside Blackmore itself at some point, with the remainder spotted within a couple of blocks of the NT, although the survivors never got close to having 100 inside at any one time. Player killers, death cultists and the odd character who initially played survivor only to realise what a farce it all was and end up killing someone else are not included in these figures, which were painstakingly researched from a variety of sources.

It's numbers like this help convey just how much of an absolute calamity this 'siege' actually was. You're welcome. --TWO HEADED SEX BEAST 22:48, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

For the record: the siege actually started on saturday. Not that I'm claiming this was anything else than a train wreck, but you know, just getting the facts right :) PB&J 22:49, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Go on then, enlighten me, what time on Saturday? Perhaps it was still Saturday in your part of the world, perhaps it was Saturday in GMT too, but if you know a more accurate time, let's get the facts out there. --TWO HEADED SEX BEAST 22:52, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

No problem, let me check the reports. PB&J 22:54, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Another number for you; 26. The number of standing zombies outside when zombies breached the building and were no longer repelled. 26 zombies, against 77 survivors.

Don't have to tell me that one, I saw it myself and was as disappointed as you are. First conquering of the Blackmore by a small DEM unit was Oct. 25, around noon GMT, but they were evicted by the locals quite soon (although that was the start of actual conflict). MCDU then started cading and repairing surrounding buildings (to distract non-present zombie hordes...), but it seems you were right on the time of the actual siege. Must've been tired back then, my bad :) PB&J 23:03, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Ah, so people had come into reset repair costs first? That makes sense. --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 23:07, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

The official reason being they wanted to "distract attention from the Blackmore". I admit I kept my cadets out of the line of fire by having them secure RPs and some safehouses, but that was mainly that a streak of bad luck in there could very well kill their enthusiasm and I like to keep as many players, living or undead, in UD as possible. Distracting attention from Blackmore is impossible, due to its prominent function and the fact that it was the 5th... PB&J 23:13, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Did you try Moggridge? Always a good distraction in my book. --Ross Less Ness ^{Enter Stranger...} 23:21, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

If I'm not mistaken, they did. But no sense in distracting zed if you can get overwhelmed by a force 1/3 of your own strength... PB&J 23:38, 7 November 2012 (UTC)