Talk:Suggestions/4th-Jan-2007

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Fortifications (Major PKing Nerf)

Timestamp: Jon Pyre 01:13, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Type: Skill to Nerf Pkers
Scope: Nerfing PKers
Description: As survivors grow more paranoid of their fellow humans they have started building fortifications within buildings, upturned tables, lines of sandbags, piled bricks, to impede other survivors or take cover behind in case of a firefight.

Players with the Construction subskill Fortification can fortify the interior of any building for 10AP. All the players currently in the building at the time of it being fortified are now past the fortifications and afforded considerable protection from survivors not behind the fortifications. People in the building who are outside the fortifications would have their attacks against those within reduced to 1/2 of their current effectiveness (65% would become 32.5%). Attacks from people behind the fortifications with you are unchanged. Other survivors may enter and free run into the building but anyone who wasn't present the last time the fortifications were built, or who left the building and then returned since they were last built is outside the fortifications. They'd still get the benefit of the barricades, but not the benefit of the fortifications. You would still be able to fortify the building even when it was currently fortified. This wouldn't make them stronger, it'd just expand the fortifications so everyone present that was not in the existing fortification would be included as well.

EDIT: This does not protect from zombies as any fortifications are destroyed when the barricades are reduced to 0, and they cannot be rebuilt while a zombie is present.

Fortifications could be attacked. It'd take around 10 attacks on average to destroy a fortification.

This essentially gives PKing a 10AP cost the Pker can choose to pay in one of three ways:

  1. Destroy the fortifications for 10AP.
  2. Rebuild the fortifications so you are both protected and unimpeded by them.
  3. Spend about another 10AP attacking a single person because of reduced accuracy.

Discussion

  • I don't plan on submitting this because I know how quickly it would get spammed but I thought I'd put it out there as a hypothetical idea. Hypothetical constructive criticism is welcome. --Jon Pyre 01:17, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I remember once coming up with something like this on Proboards. Same name, too. Hmmmmm... Anyways, i like it regardless. It's a little better than mine. However, I think hand attacks should suffer much less of a penalty than guns, because cover doesn't really protect that well from a dude with an axe or a zombie going for your throat.--Grigori 02:05, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh this wouldn't protect against zombies at all. Either that or zombies could destroy fortifications 100% of the time with a single hit. Defenses designed against bullets wouldn't help much against grasping hands. --Jon Pyre 02:22, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Absolute genius - I'd vote Keep on this in a heartbeat, and I feel sure that everyone else will, and that it'll be implemented even before voting has finished. --Funt Solo Scotland flag.JPG 17:03, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

So zeds destroy the fortifications for free but... so do survivors using an axe have to destroy the cade too or not? very arbitary 1 way and unfair the other. the only way i can think of that may be acceptable would be to make barricades upto v.strong work as normal and levels over this protect against 'newcomers' regardless of living/freerun status. this would nerf freerunning a little but might be workable! Oh and FUNT... nice sarcasm! --Honestmistake 17:40, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

This is slightly confusing when it comes to the part about who is inside and outside the fortifications. I am quite sure that this would get spaminated into oblivion on the suggestions page too. --Zombie slay3r 21:44, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I don't really see what the benefit of this is. I mean, if the PKer was there with you when the fortifications were put up then they're not affected by this, and even if they aren't all they have to do is build fortifications themselves, at which point they will be able to attack without penalty. It just seems kinda pointless to me. --Reaper with no name TJ! 21:53, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Arbitrary, unfair, and rather silly. I thought you might have learned something from that huge discussion down below, but it appears that everything said has gone in one ear and out the other without encountering a single neuron. --Grim s-Mod U! 02:30, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Please Grim, I learned not to put this on the suggestions page. Also just because I read someone's opinion doesn't mean it has to convince me. And Reaper, the benefit would be that the PKer would have to either sleep in the building waiting for someone else to fortify it, and thus make themselves a target, or spend 10AP. --Jon Pyre 06:35, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

You learn not to put it on the suggestion page, but do you know why? It's very arbitary, and all it does is increase the AP cost for someone to PK. It does not actually solve the situation. And how much does it cost to fortify? 10 AP? Okay. And, it also takes about 10 attacks, on average to kill, but you don't explain the precentages and such...and really, it does not take 10 attacks to kill a radio or a genny, you can't have that. All you can have for items is, 1 hit=destruction. Even for barricades, 1 hit=destruction of a barricade HP. It wouldn't be fair for someone to have Zombies form "Rotting Barricades", which cost trenchcoaters 10 AP to dismantle before they can attack it, and it wouldn't be fair here.

And more importantly, if you put up a suggestion that you KNOW will not get accepted by the community, what is the point? You waste your time and the time of others.--ShadowScope 19:25, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Leaving the fortification effects aside (I'm not a fan, but whatever..)- What's most glaringly lacking here is any mention of ZOMBIES. Aren't they part of the game any more? I'm wondering, what happens when zombies enter a building with fortifications? Because if fortifications work against zombies, then zombies might as well not be a part of the game. And if the fortifications do not work against zombies- well, why do they work against anybody at all, then. One solution would be for all fortifications to vanish when the barricades are torn down. --Swiers 23:01, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Swiers. What ever happened to zombies? Is this game no longer about zombies vs. survivors and now about PKers vs. other survivors? What will fortifications do to zombies who have to send all of their AP just to break down the barricades? --Wikidead 01:21, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I suspect this has been edited since it first appeared cos i am sure it mentioned zombies not being affected which made no sense, hence my earlier comment!--Honestmistake 19:10, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I didn't originally in the suggestion but I put forward some ideas in the commentary. But I never intended it to affect zombies. I changed the suggestion now to match it. --Jon Pyre 19:02, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Length of Pipe: A new use (Updated)

Timestamp: John Verdana 00:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Type: Improvement
Scope: Buildings that can be barricaded and Length of Pipe.
Description: For some time there has been no practical use for a Length of Pipe except for poor Meelee Combat.

Now, anyone remembers how in the movies movies the hero blocks a door to or trap someone inside a room?

The Length of Pipe could now be a last measure against break-ins, by allowing survivors some time for the Zeds to struggle with the blocked door. The Zombie would maul its way in for 5 AP (to break the pipe). That means that you don't need Memories of Life for entering a building that has a Pipe securing the doors.

This is a non-stackable item and can only be placed once in building that has its doors secured The pipe will be removed from your inventory. When barricaded, the pipe is removed and no longer has its effect. This could help newbies, allowing them a small taste of Construction and to escape to safer places. Internal description could be: You are inside XXXXX, the building has its doors secured with a lenght of pipe .

Discussion I suggest making it so that using up a pipe gives an unbarricaded, unransacked building "loose" barricades. Maybe include bats as well. Basically one miniscule level of cading newbies can add if they choose. --Jon Pyre 00:34, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Something similar but it isn't a proper barricade; the barricades are subject to the RNG, the pipe is not.--John Verdana 06:40, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I was gonna comment about this having been suggested before...but I don't understand WHAT is being suggested. Can you clarify?--Pesatyel 03:30, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Not bad! I kind of like it. --Uncle Bill 03:51, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Well can YOU explain it then? If it is what I think it is, that being the pipe keeps the doors from being opened, this doesn't help newbie SURVIVORS more than it hurst newbie ZOMBIES. Why bother barricading if there is no way for the zombies to get around the pipe?--Pesatyel 04:48, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
They can get around, for 5 AP they can maul their way in.--John Verdana 06:40, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Let me see if I understand. The doors are open and the zombies can just walk in. Then someone puts a pipe there to "barricade" the door and NOW it costs 5 AP for the zombies to get in? Huh? Is the pipe only holding back PART of the door? The door is either CLOSED or OPEN. The pipe, in that instance, would be irrelevant. If the door is closed, the zombie can't get in, unless they have Memories of Life. If the door is open, anyone can get in. How exactly does the pipe fit in given the way the game works? The door is closed so the the zombies can't get in...but because a pipe is what is closing the door they can? Oh, wait I think I understand, the doors are actually OPEN, but the pipe is stuck across the doorway so the zombie has to spend 5 AP to climb over or limbo under the pipe?--Pesatyel 07:54, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
No the doors are CLOSED, then you put the Lenght of Pipe to prevent any Zombie (with Memories of Life or not) from entering. --John Verdana 17:26, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Seems a bit overpowered to me. I mean, zombies already get screwed royally by barricades. Why would you want to make it worse? --Reaper with no name TJ! 18:51, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

This suggestion is confusing me due to its gramatical errors. Could you please correct the errors in order to make the suggestion clearer? --Zombie slay3r 21:48, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Edited for better understanding --John Verdana 22:45, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I think I understand now. The pipe causes the zombie to spend 5 AP to use Memories of Life to get in and destroys the pipe in the process. Sound right?--Pesatyel 02:18, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Almost, the Zombie doesn't need the skill to break it. Imagine that you ram into the door, the doors (and pipe) would open by the force.--John Verdana 03:28, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
So, your saying that it gives zombies a "free" skill? Normally, if the door is closed and I don't have MoL (Memories of Life), I CAN'T get in. But because a pipe is there...I suddenly can?--Pesatyel 04:12, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
It takes 5 AP to the poor Zed, this is a balance. Simply imagine that you have MoL for that precise moment.--John Verdana 19:21, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Try simplifying it a little bit. Length of pipe (or optionally baseball bat) allows you to barricade closed doors up to "loosly barricaded" without the construction skill. This action uses up the pipe or bat. --Uncle Bill 02:36, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't sound too bad.--Pesatyel 04:12, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Nah, Bats are made from wood and aluminium, a pipe is more durable.--John Verdana 19:21, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like a good use for a nearly useless item. Now if only you could do this with newspapers.....Cap'n Silly 19:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

An Interesting way, but some suriviors may find it better not to barricade at all. If you are in a building that is not barricaded and you camp there, zombies will just shrug and shamble to somewhere else. If, however, they see a lightly barricade buidling, they may be tempted to attack it, because...since it is barricade, there may be people over there. So, they knock down the Loosely Barricaded building and eat the newbie...when the newbie could have easily surivied had he NOT barricaded. Either do it full-hearthly...or not at all.--ShadowScope 19:19, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

That's what I was trying to point out. What idiot who happened to have a pipe but not Construction would use this? It basically allows ANY zombie inside! The guy is better of taking the chance that the zombies outside DON'T have MoL.--Pesatyel 04:45, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

The only way I can see this being used is to make it cost 4 extra AP's for zombies to crack into a barricaded building, and IMO that is a BAD thing; barricades are heavy weighted against zombies already. Also, zombies who don't have MoL do not generally bother trying to enter buildings that have secured doors, so the (with or without) MoL bit is meaningless (and confusing)- if you bother with the suggestion (please don't) just make it take an extra 4 ap (though 1 ap seems more fair) to enter the building if the door is secured with a pipe. Addtionally, it makes sense to assume that SURVIVORS use doors when coming in off the street- how else do they get into buildings? That being the case, this effect (extra ap's to enter the building when the door is secured with a pipe) should also apply, in the (rare) cases where the survivor is not using "free running" to enter from an adjacent building. --Swiers 22:50, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

An interesting point. Would this "lock the door" and force survivors to spend extra AP to "kick in the door" before they could enter from the street? --Uncle Bill 03:09, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Not really. If ALL the pipe does is cause players, be them zombie or survivor, to get in by spending a few more AP, why bother having doors it all? The point of the doors is to keep zombies without MoL from getting in. Simple as that.--Pesatyel 22:25, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
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