Suggestion:20071004 Suicide Causes Headshot

	Removed
	This suggestion has been removed from voting by author for revisioning.

20071004 Suicide Causes Headshot

Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 17:43, 4 October 2007 (BST)

Suggestion type
Game mechanic change

Suggestion scope
Players who commit suicides

Suggestion description
You're wandering on the streets of Malton and happen on a NecroTech building with it's barricades down but doors closed. You enter hoping for a juicy meal, but find it empty. You decide that unlife sucks and jump from a window.

Jump from a window
Are you sure you want to jump out of a window? This will kill you.
Really jump from a window
You fall heavily onto the pavement, a few storeys below.

And nothing happens. You look at yourself wondering how is this possible.

My suggestion is simple; jumping from tall buildings would cause death and a Headshot (meaning an extra 5AP when you stand up). This would happen to both zombies and survivors.

Arguments and counterarguments
The suggestion itself is simple, but it's effects have raised some controversy.

Suggestions Dos and Do Nots: Don't suggest skills that cut massive amounts of AP off an opponent. Remember, that character is run by another player. Unless you are willing to have one single AP point every 24 hours, don't assume that someone else is!

This isn't some skill that would allow you to remove AP from another player. I don't think 5AP is massive and it's already a part of the game mechanics.

Zombies can use this for healing!

Yes, they can. At a maximum efficency of 7,375HP per AP spent. That doesn't include the time used to find a tall building and getting the 'cades down. The figure also presumes the zombie has only 1HP and the Body Building skill. If the zombies was at, say, 25HP and didn't have BB, the efficency would be 3,125HP per AP spent. That's less than a survivor without any healing skills.

Zombies can also heal the same amount just by standing outside and waiting. They might even get killed without getting a Headshot (like by other zombies) and heal 59HP for 1AP.

Zombies can create ninja ambushes with this!

Yes, they can. At a limited amount of (outside) locations, and they all have to spend 6AP when standing up.

A much better way is for the zombies to just kill each other, so they can ambush at any location (even inside) and they only have to spend 1AP to stand up.

Look at the stats page! Zombies are losing 39% to 61%!

Yes, sadly they are. But there's no telling what the ratio will be after the two weeks this will be in voting. If my memory serves me right, when I made a suggestion about two weeks ago, zombies were winning. Now that its voting-time is up, survivors are winning. The situation changes fast.

Also, I presume that Kevan is smart enough not to implement suggestions which hurt zombies when they're on the losing side (and the same for survivors).

For posteriority, I will record the zombie/survivor ratio here when this finishes voting.

If I'm combat or random revived, I'd have to spend an additional 5AP to get back to being a zombie!

Yes, you would.

But instead of killing yourself, you could also feed yourself to low-level zombies, who would be delighted to get some XP, or you could go and say hello to the person who CR'ed you. With a shotgun.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Keep - Author vote. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 17:43, 4 October 2007 (BST)
2. Keep - discourages windowledging to avoid death from other players. --Pavluk ^{A! E!} 18:07, 4 October 2007 (BST)
3. Keep - It never quite made sense to me how zombies could be immune to falling damage yet not be immune to other blunt-force trauma injuries (ie, any blunt weapon). Falling to your death tends to involve crippling injuries, organ trauma, and brain damage. The brain damage part would mean that a headshot penalty would become perfectly reasonable. The fact that a survivor can commit suicide simply by standing outside means that there is almost no reason (barring flavor, which in this game usually means wasting AP, inventory space, etc) for survivors to jump off a building except to deny zombies XP. But now they would have a choice: save a little AP or deny the zombies some XP.--Reaper with no name ^TJ! 20:45, 4 October 2007 (BST)
4. Keep - I love how the "headshot" part of this is getting eaten up with the "Zombies are dead" argument. Apparently, zombies in the movies never lost limbs, broke bones, or crawled without legs. If you jump from a window, high enough to cause death when you are living, almost guaranteed it's going to break something in your body. I think this suggestion is logical from that standpoint - it's not a "headshot" per se, it's just using that mechanic as a way of describing the outcome of what would be a brutal impact. --Ryiis 20:47, 4 October 2007 (BST)
5. Keep -just change the 'applies to zombies' part- make it so it applies to survivors committing suicide only, and you'll get more votes.  Nalikill  ^{TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI}  21:01, 4 October 2007 (BST)
6. Keep - Figured that anyone that falls out the top floor of a tall building should receive some sort of damage upon impact, zombie or not.--Private Mark 22:04, 4 October 2007 (BST)
7. Keep - I love the sickening splat of a person jumping out of a window. One less person to heal...doc crook 23:04, 4 October 2007 (BST)

Kill Votes

1. Kill - I don't see why building-jumping should be considered more hazardous to integrity of the body (what would count as "zombie health") than being mauled by another zombie. Not convinced that this change is worthwhile, and it makes brain damage less special, reducing flavour. --Pgunn 18:11, 4 October 2007 (BST)

   It's a tall building. I don't think the exact height is said anywhere, but it has to be pretty high to kill anyone with one hit. This means it's more than 10 times as powerful than any zombie attack. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 20:53, 4 October 2007 (BST)

2. weak kill - If it went hand in hand with "defenestration" then I would probably go with keep but what this mostly seems to do is deprive others of XP! --Honestmistake 19:19, 4 October 2007 (BST)
3. Kill - Jumping from a building needs to be cheap and easy, because if it were not, people would suicide by annoying other survivors. --Toejam 19:52, 4 October 2007 (BST)
4. Kill - Zombies are dead. Dead... Jumping from a building doesn't change that status. Headshot causes a penalty because the canonical zombie mythos says a shot to the brain "kills" the undead permanently. No other forms of damage cause this penalty for that reason. Also, zombies don't need to "heal" with suicide. Because HP are almost irrelevant in practice -- or much less of an issue than with survivors. At least those who can find even a small group to stick with... Mainly because of zombie anonymity. You can be at 1 HP and avoid death almost indefinately by means of "safety in numbers". And zombies have Digestion to gain hit points already, in any event. By nerfing suicide you make the zombie-survivor AP imbalance even worse than it already is. And offering yourself to the horde is actually a HUGE waste of zombie AP that could be spent on smashing barricades... Just a bad idea all round... --WanYao 20:20, 4 October 2007 (BST)

   And jumping from a tall building causes you no bodily harm just because you're a zombie? Ahuge waste you say? Offering yourself to low-level zombies gives them valuable XP, which they can use to buy combat skills and then they cause more damage per AP on average. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 20:59, 4 October 2007 (BST)

   Read what I wrote, sheesh. Headshot causes a penalty because it is a shot to the brain... capiche? Jumping off a building is no different than getting mauled by a zombie, or taking a non-headshot kill from a survivor. Unless, perhaps, you land exactly in your head... wanna introduce a new skill, High Diving, to allow that?? Well, anyway... As for the waste of AP... it costs a few AP to suicide... it costs most of a day's worth of zombie AP to kill a single harman -- for an EXPERIENCED zombie... Inside resource buildings there are usually several harmanz to barg... opening up resource buildings allows Feeding Drag... etc. etc. Okay, I concede that it all depends on the specific situation and the chance of actually getting inside, it's a risk to attack 'cades as opposed to the sure thing of a proffered human... But, still, do the math... I'm not out to lunch... Anyway, I'm sorry you don't like the fact that I don't like your suggestion, but, well, I don't like it. I think it's a bad idea. For a lot of reasons. --WanYao 05:38, 5 October 2007 (BST)

5. Kill - it's enough for me to vote kill because that you refer to current stats --~~~~ [talk] 20:41, 4 October 2007 (BST)
6. Kill - They're zombies. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 20:44, 4 October 2007 (BST)

   So? You shoot a zombie in the head, it gets headshot. A zombie jumps from a tall building, it gets headshot. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 20:59, 4 October 2007 (BST)

   What happens if they don't land on their head?--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 21:09, 4 October 2007 (BST)

   See talk page-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 21:11, 4 October 2007 (BST)

7. Change - Getting a head shot every time you jump out of building may be little to much. It might be better if there was just a 10% or 20% chance of it happening. --Sonofagun18 05:50, 5 October 2007 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Nerfs suicide for humans and zombies. If you stand outside, you can get killed for 0 AP and not get Headshotted (so you only spend 1 AP to stand up). At least with Jumping Out of Buildings you get to continue playing rather than log off and come back in 30 minutes to get murdered. If you make it so you pay MORE AP to jump out of buildings, then no one will jump out of windows and just jump outside of a building into a zombie horde and say "EAT ME".--ShadowScope 18:04, 4 October 2007 (BST)

   It's a choice of whether you want to use time or AP. For example if you've already got the full 50AP, any further waiting would just burn the APs anyway, then there'd be no reason not to use them. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 20:49, 4 October 2007 (BST)

2. Inaccuracy If a zombie jumps from a building I don't think it kills them. They just end up outside, still standing. Am I wrong on this? --Jon Pyre 18:12, 4 October 2007 (BST)

   Nope, you're right. What this suggestion does is allow for zombies to jump out of buildings to kill themselves, with the penatly of taking away all the beniefts of jumping out of the window (letting them be headshot).--ShadowScope 18:18, 4 October 2007 (BST) Non-author RE struck --Ryiis 20:40, 4 October 2007 (BST) Reply seconded and unstruck by author. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 21:04, 4 October 2007 (BST)

3. Spam - Senseless and brainless nerf to anyone who wants to toss themselves out of a building. Falls under the heading of abysmally bad idea --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 21:18, 4 October 2007 (BST)
4. Spam - Rewards combat reviving. --The Hierophant 21:21, 4 October 2007 (BST)
5. Spam - Because I like to vote spam.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 21:28, 4 October 2007 (BST)
6. Spam As per Grim and Hierophant. Next time it comes up, it'll be a dupe. --Karlsbad 21:31, 4 October 2007 (BST)
7. Spam As above.--Wooty 00:13, 5 October 2007 (BST)
8. Spam Stop trying to screw over players who don't want to play how you want to play.--Karek^maps?! 00:22, 5 October 2007 (BST)
9. Spam - In real life there are many ways to kill yourself that do not involve head trauma. Nerfing window-diving will only have people suggesting things like a "wrist slash" option.--Jiangyingzi 02:42, 5 October 2007 (BST)
10. Spam Pointless. Sockem 03:52, 5 October 2007 (BST)
11. Spam - As Grim, Hierophant and Karek. -- John Rubin^{T! ZG} 12:59, 5 October 2007 (BST)

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