Suggestion talk:20080120 A Little Red Wagon

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A Little Red Wagon

Timestamp:	Ms.Panes 23:05, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Type:	Item allowing people to move each other around.
Scope:	Everyone.
Description:	I decided I liked my wagon idea enough to put it up as a suggesstion. I think some tweaks might be needed before I put it to voting. Little red wagons would be found in junkyards. There would be a limited number in each junkyard that would ever be found. Would 15 per junkyard be good? I don't know how many junkyards are in the game. It would have 0.5% search rate until that junkyard runs out of them, and they wouldn't make it harder to find other items. When found it would say, "You found a little red wagon. You can pull it around or get in it if you want." Wagons would be a limited item, would not disappear from the game, and could not be put in your inventory, but you can pull one around. You would see how many wagons are on a square. To take hold of a wagon would cost 1 AP, but no AP to let go of. If you die you let go of the wagon. It would cost one AP to get in, and one AP to get out. Only one person could be in it at a time. If you die you fall out of the wagon. Both zombies and survivors can pull the wagon and get in/out of the wagon. To pull an empty wagon would take 2AP, with or without lurching gait. To pull a wagon with someone in it would cost 3 AP, again regardless of whether you have lurching gait. If it's empty, you can pull the wagon anywhere you can go normally. If someone is in it, you can't take it inside unless the barricades are gone (possibly loose?). The wagon takes up no inventory spaces, but you can only pull one behind you at a time. You cannot take someone else's wagon unless you kill them or they let go. If no one is in the wagon you can get in, regardless of whether someone is holding the handle. The person pulling the wagon can knock the person in it out of it. (1AP) What's the point, you ask? Allows infected survivors to get in and hope someone will pull them to safety. Allows slow zeds to pull other slow zeds around at a net savings of 1 AP/square between the two. If one or both zeds has lurching gait, there would be no AP savings. and by then they would have played long enough to learn not to waste AP anyway. Allows a zed to bring a friend or feral with them, increasing teamwork. Allows moving people around, but only if they're willing to be moved. Adds an interesting element of tug of war to gameplay. It's FUN!

Discussion (A Little Red Wagon)

Dude, this idea is awesome!!!! but can people shoot while in the wagon?--GunFox13 00:19, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I hadn't thought of that. Seems like the reasonable thing would be that attacking, syringing, DNA scanning, FAKing others, and the like would cause you to get out of the wagon, while speaking, gesturing, first aiding yourself, and the like wouldn't. I know realistically you could shoot someone without getting out, but to be fair to other attack forms I think it should cause you to exit the wagon, too. --Ms.Panes 18:29, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Well thought out, and reasonable mechanics-wise, but isn't it a little, y'know... Silly? --TriPolarClicky! 04:35, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

When I first read this, I thought of a grungy, legless, one armed hobo in one of those wagons.  Nalikill  ^{TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI}  06:14, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't weaken infection, don't make pied piper skills(even voluntary ones), and don't allow users to save AP by forcing other users to waste AP.--Karek^maps?! 06:36, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

AgreedStudoku 19:08, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Are there any changes you'd suggest, or specific parts that might need tweaking? Just saying "no" doesn't really help me. --Ms.Panes 19:40, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Most people will just say no to this. Allowing people to directly spend AP to save others AP is an invitation to zergers.Studoku 15:46, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

The only thing I can think of to fix that completely is to make it so the wagons are just a flavor item, ie you drag them, they cost no extra AP, and no one can get in. But that would defeat the purpose of the suggestion.

Something that might work is to have it so that if someone is zerging, they drop the wagon handle and can't pull it/be pulled anymore. But that would tell people when the zerg detectors are being set off, and I think that information is supposed to be secret. Or just lower the zergs hit/search percentages just like they'd been attacking the same guy with two people to make the zerging useless. Yeah, I think the normal zerg countermeasures would work to get rid of any benefit gained by being pulled around. Maybe even up the hit percentages for people trying to kill the zerg, or better yet the game could send in an autobot to headshot/kill the zerger, with the zerger not knowing it wasn't another player. --Ms.Panes 00:48, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Both out of genre AND zergeable. YOu use it to drag my full AP character around with a group of "one offs". Also, you SERIOUSLY see people carrying each other around in wagons in a zombie apolypse? Has that EVER happened in zombie media?--Pesatyel 09:45, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

DAWN OF THE DEAD!!!!! After Roger gets bitten, and they make a run for the cars to block all the entrances, hes pushed around in a cart that they had used when they first entered the mall. Surely theres nothing more "Zombie Media" than DotD?--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:16, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Also thinking about it DAWN OF THE DEAD (REMAKE) When the other survivors turn up in the van, the fat bitten lady is on a wagon of some sorts, they wheel her out on.--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:24, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

And I think one of the people in Mistakes were made had a wagon? In red?--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:24, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

It was Bob Barns of course :)--James beckerson 09:11, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I was wrong. Thanks for the clarification. But that doesn't counter the rest of what I said now, does it.--Pesatyel 01:30, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

It doesnt. But I wanted to show off my zombie/cart related knowledge.--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:16, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Everything in this game is zergable. The question isn't, "Can this be abused?", but "How badly?", "How easily?", and "Are there reasonable measures that could be taken to prevent this?" I don't really see this as opening up potential for massive abuse, and surely creating multiple level ones and coordinating them to drag one person around would set off the zerg detector?

And as far as where I've seen little red wagons in zombie media... ;) --Ms.Panes 18:29, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Dude's gotta point.--GunFox13 21:33, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Eh? Out of genre... BoboTalkClown 22:41, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Add: Anyone that drinks beer or wine falls "off the wagon" (rimshot)--Actingupagain 15:29, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

MWM! 4AP seems to make sense for pulling someone around. To move two people once would cost 2 AP, plus another two to make it really inefficient for zergers. It would take a lot of zergs to really get somewhere, considering 50 AP max, you could get 13 moves carrying a person in a wagon, in total getting on would be 12+50 moves for the main character makes 62 ap in total. In other words, you get a bonus 12AP, minus one if you intend to get in a building, and your zerg is left in the cold, with -2 AP. Of course, you could go through the trouble of expending a bunch of zergs, and donate to UD several times, but that would be a lot of trouble for a damn game. -- Quizzical  Quiz  Speak  16:21, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

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