Developing Suggestions

Developing Suggestions

This section is for presenting and reviewing suggestions which have not yet been submitted and are still being worked on.

Nothing on this page will be archived.

Further Discussion

• Discussion concerning this page takes place here.
• Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general, including policies about it, takes place here.

Please Read Before Posting

• Be sure to check The Frequently Suggested List and the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots before you post your idea. You can read about many ideas that have been suggested already, which users should be aware of before posting what could be a dupe: a duplicate of an existing suggestion. These include Machine Guns and Sniper Rifles.
• Users should be aware that page is discussion oriented. Other users are free to express their own point of view and are not required to be neutral.
• If you decide not to take your suggestion to voting, please remove it from this page to avoid clutter.
• It is recommended that users spend some time familiarizing themselves with this page before posting their own suggestions.
• After new game updates, users are requested to allow time for the game and community to adjust to these changes before suggesting alterations.

How To Make a Suggestion

Adding a New Suggestion

• Copy the code in the box below.
• Click here to begin editing. This is the same as clicking the [edit] link to the right of the Suggestions header.

• Paste the copied text above the other suggestions, right under the heading.
• Substitute the text in RED CAPITALS with the details of your suggestion.

{{subst:DevelopingSuggestion
|time=~~~~
|name=SUGGESTION NAME
|type=TYPE HERE
|scope=SCOPE HERE
|description=DESCRIPTION HERE
}}

• Name - Give the suggestion a short but descriptive name.
• Type is the nature of the suggestion, such as a new class, skill change, balance change, etc. Basically: What is it? and Is it new, or a change?
• Scope is who or what the suggestion affects. Typically survivors or zombies (or both), but occasionally Malton, the game interface or something else.
• Description should be a full explanation of your suggestion. Include information like flavor text, search odds, hit percentages, etc, as appropriate. Unless you are as yet unsure of the exact details behind the suggestion, try not to leave out anything important. Check your spelling and grammar.

Cycling Suggestions

• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past two days should be given a warning notice. This can be done by adding {{SDW|date}} at the top of the discussion section, where date is the day the suggestion will be removed.
• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past week may be removed.
• If you are adding a comment to a suggestion that has the warning template please remove the {{SDW|date}} at the top of the discussion section to show that there is still ongoing discussion.

This page is prone to breaking when the page gets too long, so sometimes suggestions still under discussion will be moved to the Overflow page, so the discussion can continue.

Please add new suggestions to the top of the list

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Suggestions

Compound Bow, Quiver/Arrow Bundle

Timestamp: Lucifer210 07:11, 5 April 2010 (BST)

Type: Weapon

Scope: Survivors

Description: A new ranged weapon for survivors a bow found in schools and mall sport shops. Base 5% accuracy, with damage 4 per hit. 15 arrows a pack, 3% encumberance per bow, 2% per pack. Due to bows and arrows being quiet projectiles, people hit by arrows will not be informed who shot them, due to the lack of gun smoke and lower sound output. PS. I'm open to disregarding the added effects of fired arrows EDIT: Also thought to include skill to improve accuracy. Basic Firearms Training (Prerequisit Only) Archery Training (+10% Accuracy) Advanced Archery Training (+25% Accuracy)

Discussion (Compound Bow, Quiver/Arrow Bundle)

Base 5% accuracy...does it ever improve? What does the math look like for damage/AP? —Aichon— 09:11, 5 April 2010 (BST)

I was under the impression that weapons and new skills had to be made under seperate suggestions --Lucifer210 04:29, 6 April 2010 (BST)

Ok, time for some quick math here. Let's assume that you have one Pistol and I have one Compound Bow, and that we each are loaded up with ammo. You'll be able to make 43 Pistol shots and would have to reload 7 times with your 50 AP for the day, yielding an average of 139.75dmg against a not Rotted/Jacketed target. I, on the other hand, would be able to take 47 arrow shots and would have to reload 3 times with my 50 AP for the day, yielding an average of 183.3dmg against the same type of target. Given those numbers, you would be doing 2.795dmg/AP on average, while I would be doing 3.66dmg/AP on average.

If we were to consider searches as well, the Pistol is currently the most AP-efficient weapon in the game since it has multiple shots per clip and clips are decently easy to find, and this thing absolutely blows it away, since you need less searches, yet hit for harder and have to reload less often. But to quickly show the math, it takes an average of 8 searches right now to find one clip, so we'll assume it would have taken you 64 searches to find the clips you used earlier (there was one loaded in the gun already). Likewise, if we assume 8 searches per clip of arrows/bolts, I'd need just 32 searches. So, if we add the AP we spent before onto the AP for searches, that means that you'd actually need 114 AP on average to deal 139.75dmg, for an efficiency of 1.226dmg/AP, whereas I would need just 82 AP to reach my 183.3dmg for an efficiency of 2.234dmg/AP. Basically, the Compound Bow would be the new best weapon in the game BY FAR. I could average about two kills every day with the thing, even with searches and misses taken into account. —Aichon— 21:29, 6 April 2010 (BST)

In regards of search rates, you have to consider the places where the bow and the arrows pops up. In Mall Sports Stores one would need to go through a lot of fencing foils and other bummer weapons if the bow has an equal chance to pop up, while schools generally have low finding rates. (Not that this minor point helps the suggestion much as it is now.) --Spiderzed 13:19, 7 April 2010 (BST)

That's why I just made some generic assumptions regarding the search rates for ease of highlighting the disparity between the weapons. There are also other issues at play, such as finding pre-loaded weapons and the like. In truth, he probably needs to provide them himself in order to make the suggestion complete anyway, but for now, I just supplied some stand-in numbers of my own. —Aichon— 15:27, 7 April 2010 (BST)

(Zerging) griefers dream. Create a scout alt, get him a bow plus hundreds of arrows, find your victim and let the "fun" begin. Sure, it will prolly take some time/ap due to low accuracy but who cares? The victim has no chance of actively finding out who's targetting him so the griefer has all the time in the world.--Trevor Wrist 12:14, 5 April 2010 (BST)

It can actually be done quicker. Use a pistol to weaken the target rapidly to its last HPs, and then finish the job with the bow. My bounty-sensitive death-cultist would totally do that to ensure that he doesn't get reported. And then report the victim if it dares to retaliate without covering its tracks like me. It's similar to para-chuting and even simpler to use as it doesn't rely on being infected, so expect to see a lot of that if a ninja bow gets implemented. --Spiderzed 12:23, 5 April 2010 (BST)

"(Zerging) griefers dream." Hardly. Zergers don't care about their characters' safety: they just create more, and so have no need for the stealth the bow offers. Firefighter + axe would still be vastly more effective than scout + bow. As it currently stands it would take years with a starting character to get lucky enough to kill someone with a bow at 50AP/day (remember those things called FAKs that people grab when they get injured?), and if you are zerging for more AP then firefighters would work much better! And Spiderzed, most PKers enjoy taunting their victims and bystanders. Removing the risk removes the fun! I imagine this would mostly be used by Bounty Hunters and do-gooders who don't want to damage their good name. --Anotherpongo 14:37, 5 April 2010 (BST)

PKers might, and PKers might also want the bragging rights of having a bounty. My death-cultist won't. He's more interested into keeping a low profile RG-wise, to a.) keep being CRed and eating syringes on RPs and b.) be able to put dumbass trenchies on the RG who are stupid enough to shoot someone for GKing, para-chuting and other lesser crimes. --Spiderzed 14:49, 5 April 2010 (BST)

Is that really a problem? I think alternative playstyles should be encouraged to keep the game interesting. --Anotherpongo 15:52, 6 April 2010 (BST)

Oh, don't get me wrong, as a passionate death-cultist I'd _totally_ dig a weapon that allows me to kill anonymously and taunt the victim to lure it on the RG. It's just that I can imagine enough haters who'd outcry at the prospect of that. --Spiderzed 16:28, 6 April 2010 (BST)

I've done a bit of archery, and yes, bows are quiet. But even the compact compound bows make a noise when you let go, if not as loud as a gun, and it's easy to tell when someone is shooting at you, or anyone else. --Enigma^talk 14:17, 5 April 2010 (BST)

A bow is however certainly more stealthy than a gun, which the suggestor is trying to reflect. --Anotherpongo 14:37, 5 April 2010 (BST)

I also said I would be open to dropping the 'silent kill' part --Lucifer210 04:29, 6 April 2010 (BST)

The author hasn't mentioned whether the kill message will appear, only the hit message. I suggest adding what skills would affect it. Possibly +10% from Body Building, in addition to a new line of Archery skills? I like the idea of exchanging accuracy for stealth, but you might want to add some limitations. --Anotherpongo 14:37, 5 April 2010 (BST)

Originally, neither the hit or kill messages would show up, except for "you were shot for 4 damage" & "You are dead". Now I would disregard anything related to stealth. --Lucifer210 10:30, 7 April 2010 (BST)

I support this idea also the sond you may hear from a bow is the string so txt could be

• You hear the thump of a bowsting nearby* but instead you shoud make it with 2 damage and injure the person until a FAK or remove the arrow for -3 health (the arrow will act like an infection to the zed) this would be logical and coming back from where zeds can infect you-scvideoking 17:59, 5 April 2010 (BST)

If Thumping Bowstings is not already a band, it should be. 22:28, 5 April 2010 (BST)

This sucks. I'm tired. That is all. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 22:13, 5 April 2010 (BST)

so you're saying that (in theory) you can hold 15 arrows to attack? at 4 damage per succesful hit at 5%, a little general math tells me that it is a bit overpowered damagewise. possibly getting rid of the advanced skill for this could balance it out a bit, and possiblt lowering the quiver size too. but still, this is a great idea, and i like it. --Jack Kolt ^Talk|Chars 04:53, 6 April 2010 (BST)

How would firearms training affect bows? While it doesn't matter to me it might matter the the more anally retentive among us. And 6 damage at 65% accuracy makes this better than the pistol if searching for ammo is ignored, but 15 arrows per quiver is excessive. --Anotherpongo 15:59, 6 April 2010 (BST)

With the invisibility, this is terribly overpowered (as stated above). Without it, you've got a 5% to hit, 4 damage weapon with 15 ammo. Assuming maxed hit% of 65%, it has more ammo than a pistol, but less damage. Not enough less damage, in my opinion.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 16:56, 6 April 2010 (BST)

It actually does more damage. Notice the +2 damage for Advanced Archery Training. It'll do 6 to the Pistol's 5. —Aichon— 21:11, 6 April 2010 (BST)

Extremely stupid. Didn't notice that. It should be about 2.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 21:52, 6 April 2010 (BST)

Okay, so if I were to use the bow as my primary weapon and I had all skills I would now wield a weapon with an average damage per AP of 3.6 per shot, a clip size of 15, and 65% accuracy? Even without that damning overpower its encumbrance to ammunition ratio is way too low. Example: I carry a standard emergency supply kit that is roughly 10% of my total encumbrance, if I devote the remaining 90 percent to pistols and I do it for combat I will carry 4 pistols and 37 clips. That totals to about 246 shots. If I replace the pistols with one bow (with a clip size of 15 and a damage of six reloading isn't going to be a worry) and the clips with quivers I can now carry 44 quivers. 44*15=660 shots before I have to restock. Do you see the problem? -Devorac 23:07, 6 April 2010 (BST)

Taking this in to extended maths, this would be easier to search for as well, because you get 15 shots from one successful search.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:11, 6 April 2010 (BST)

See the math I added to my initial comment on this suggestion. This weapon is almost twice as good as the Pistol. —Aichon— 23:40, 6 April 2010 (BST)

Right, since you people apparently can't let this die I suppose I'll have to deal with it. Now, form what I can see the following jumps out at me:

• Stealth weaponry? Why don't you just call it the death cultist special and have done with it?
• Maths. Aichon has made with the numbers and it's just overpowered. It's going to fail voting for this reason.
• Location. Where do you find these things and the ammo? I feel my response to this answer is going to begin with the letters 'D', 'S' and 'R'.
• Why? What's the flavour? How common are these in genre? What is the reason to spend time programming them into the game? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 00:55, 7 April 2010 (BST)

Regarding location, the suggestion description says Mall Sports Stores and Schools, so diluted search rates won't be as bad as they typically are for these new weapons. It's one of the considerations I actually like about this suggestion. —Aichon— 05:13, 7 April 2010 (BST)

OK, after reading generally negative responses for my suggestion I have decided that 'Basic Firearms Training' would not affect the bow, and only be a prerequisit skill, and 10 arrows a quiver. Would someone kindly do the new math due to these changes. --Lucifer210 10:30, 7 April 2010 (BST)

Might want to change the suggestion to say 10 arrows per quiver. Anyway, I'll be nice and do the math for you one last time, but you have to do it from here on. Given that it only has 10 arrows per quiver and now does 4 damage per shot, you'd be able to get in 46 shots with 4 reloads, for 73.6dmg, or 1.472dmg/AP before searches are considered. With searches considered, you would need 40AP to find the quivers, for a total of 90AP, yielding 0.817dmg/AP, making it, in my opinion, a virtually worthless weapon. It doesn't have burst damage (like the Shotgun), AP efficiency (like the Pistol), or a nice balance in between. —Aichon— 11:04, 7 April 2010 (BST)

I did some archery as a youngster, and I remember having to reload my bow after every shot no matter how many arrows I had stuck in the ground (we didn't use quivers). It's not as if a quiver is like an automatic weapon's magazine where you just take one shot after another. (I accept that the 'pistols' and 'clips' of ammo in the game aren't too realistic either.) I'd also be surprised if you were to find many compound-bow style arrows in schools. (Darts, yes, but not flighted arrows.) In brief, my suggested changes would be 1) reload after every shot, 2) no arrows in schools, and 3) drop the stealth aspect - it's no fun being killed by an unknown assassin as there's no chance of getting payback (arrows are neither silent nor invisible, anyway). Encumbrance should also be more of an issue, as a full-sized compound bow and several quivers full of arrows should be no joke to tote around Malton along with your generators, fuel cans, stuffed moose heads etc.--Mallrat ^{TSI TKS CTD} 11:33, 11 April 2010 (BST)

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New Weapons

Timestamp: Attila the Hunny 21:12, 2 April 2010 (BST)

Type: machete and cast iron skillet

Scope: survivors

Description: Can a machete and a cast iron skillet be added to our weapons, please?

Discussion (New Weapons)

No. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 21:44, 2 April 2010 (BST)

And, to add to why "no", the game already has 10 weapons nobody uses, except for flavor purposes. Do we really need a full dozen?--Pesatyel 22:07, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Thats not really how developing suggestions work. You tell us the idea and then we tell you how its flawed. Whats the damage, accuracy, and weight of these weapons? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 22:16, 2 April 2010 (BST)

Yes, they can be added to the game just as soon as you describe how they work in detail (as per Ross' comment), you put it up for voting as a suggestion, it gets approved by wiki users, it gets noticed by Kevan, Kevan is feeling like adding new flavor, and he does so. Otherwise, see what Iscariot said. —Aichon— 05:33, 3 April 2010 (BST)

NONONO ahem, what I meant to say was, a machete is like a katana. trenchies like those things waay to much, and (machetes) seem to feel a bit to over-the top for a survival game. Also, is this the same skillet that you can use as a melee weapon in L4D2? --Jack Kolt ^Talk|Chars 02:55, 4 April 2010 (BST)

I never understood the whining about "trenchies". If a katana WERE to be added...who cares? Unless, of course, the weapon were overpowered, but THAT goes without saying. As for the machete, it is VERY common in zombie genre, L4D2 being irrelevant in this circumstance. Ever read the Zombie Survival Guide?--Pesatyel 22:07, 4 April 2010 (BST)

How many Englishmen do you know with machetes on hand? 22:10, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Actually, I once encountered a nifty lil' thing called a garden knife in my local Canadian Tire (I know, I'm not English)... and I know they called it that, but it was obviously a machete. Don't see why something like that couldn't be in Britain. But from a pragmatic point of view, this suggestion as it is right now is worthless. There are no details, and these are two weapons which would probably not serve a purpose even if they were put in.--Enigma^talk 14:09, 5 April 2010 (BST)

Having a small knife Garden knife such as this may be more commonplace, but I highly doubt most people will have these lying around.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 20:17, 8 April 2010 (BST)::::: that machete is a horror movie on e and i own 3--Wolfgnag Alexzander 04:57, 13 April 2010 (BST)

I'm English and while do not have an actual machette I do own 2 composite bows, several broad swords, a matched pair of ornamental polearms, several hammers and hatchets, a fire axe, a sledgehammer and a broad headed spear. I also own 2 sets of Mail armour and a set of platemail... This is very far from unusual in a country with such a fine old tradition of invading its neighbors :) --Honestmistake 14:07, 11 April 2010 (BST)

What he said. I used to know someone who ran one of the major re-enactment groups, he had more weapons in his attic than the Royal Armouries. Also, I'm sat at my computer desk and am with ten feet of seven swords and an assorted number of staves. There's a reason the last successful invasion of our island was the better part of a millennium ago, and it took two armies of Vikings to do that. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 15:15, 11 April 2010 (BST)

Exactly.... If the zombie apocalypse ever does hit Blighty it will be fought with sharp implements and regular tea breaks! --Honestmistake 11:59, 12 April 2010 (BST)

Hopefully there will also be cake.... --Honestmistake 12:00, 12 April 2010 (BST)

to answer pesatyel's question, i did read the zombie survival guide. Rule #1: Blades don't need reloading! touché, pesatyel. --Jack Kolt ^Talk|Chars 04:58, 6 April 2010 (BST)

I like Left 4 Dead 2 too, but I think machetes are just asking for bad buff suggestions. Skillets, on the other hand, I would vote for that... if they were found in hotels and stuff, and had no special powers... then again, it seems kinda pointless. BoboTalkClown 19:18, 8 April 2010 (BST)

Skillet = Uber flavor text attacks BONG --Wolfgnag Alexzander 05:00, 13 April 2010 (BST)

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Suggestions up for voting

Binocular/Ruin nerf

Has gone to voting here. --

 

 

 

 

07:33, 4 April 2010 (BST)