Developing Suggestions

Developing Suggestions

This section is for presenting and reviewing suggestions which have not yet been submitted and are still being worked on.

Nothing on this page will be archived.

Further Discussion

• Discussion concerning this page takes place here.
• Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general, including policies about it, takes place here.

Please Read Before Posting

• Be sure to check The Frequently Suggested List and the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots before you post your idea. You can read about many ideas that have been suggested already, which users should be aware of before posting what could be a dupe: a duplicate of an existing suggestion. These include Machine Guns and Sniper Rifles.
• Users should be aware that page is discussion oriented. Other users are free to express their own point of view and are not required to be neutral.
• If you decide not to take your suggestion to voting, please remove it from this page to avoid clutter.
• It is recommended that users spend some time familiarizing themselves with this page before posting their own suggestions.
• After new game updates, users are requested to allow time for the game and community to adjust to these changes before suggesting alterations.

How To Make a Suggestion

Adding a New Suggestion

• Copy the code in the box below.
• Click here to begin editing. This is the same as clicking the [edit] link to the right of the Suggestions header.

• Paste the copied text above the other suggestions, right under the heading.
• Substitute the text in RED CAPITALS with the details of your suggestion.

{{subst:DevelopingSuggestion
|time=~~~~
|name=SUGGESTION NAME
|type=TYPE HERE
|scope=SCOPE HERE
|description=DESCRIPTION HERE
}}

• Name - Give the suggestion a short but descriptive name.
• Type is the nature of the suggestion, such as a new class, skill change, balance change, etc. Basically: What is it? and Is it new, or a change?
• Scope is who or what the suggestion affects. Typically survivors or zombies (or both), but occasionally Malton, the game interface or something else.
• Description should be a full explanation of your suggestion. Include information like flavor text, search odds, hit percentages, etc, as appropriate. Unless you are as yet unsure of the exact details behind the suggestion, try not to leave out anything important. Check your spelling and grammar.

Cycling Suggestions

• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past two days should be given a warning notice. This can be done by adding {{SDW|date}} at the top of the discussion section, where date is the day the suggestion will be removed.
• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past week may be removed.
• If you are adding a comment to a suggestion that has the warning template please remove the {{SDW|date}} at the top of the discussion section to show that there is still ongoing discussion.

This page is prone to breaking when the page gets too long, so sometimes suggestions still under discussion will be moved to the Overflow page, so the discussion can continue.

Please add new suggestions to the top of the list

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Suggestions

Zombies gain bonuses during full moon

Timestamp: Cynarion 12:06, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Type: Balance change

Scope: Zombies

Description: If you've played Dead Rising you've seen the zombies in that game gaining bonuses at night. Obviously, zombies in Urban Dead gaining bonuses at night would be difficult to implement, not least of all because defining 'night' is all-but impossible in a game where players are from different timezones. So what about a globally applicable time period--such as the full moon? Please note I have no technical understanding about how this game is coded and so this suggestion might be completely out of line with the game's technical capabilities, but I thought I'd put it out there anyway. How would I implement such a suggestion? Well, maybe zombies could inflict bonus damage on designated days. Maybe they could be tougher on designated days. Maybe they could move faster on designated days. Why am I making this suggestion? It seems zombies are not the favoured playable option and--having been playing around in the UD universe for a few days, that survivors don't actually have all that difficult a time of it unless they choose to wander into the middle of a zombie infestation. I figure this might make zombies a little more unpredictable. What could the potential problems be with this suggestion? Well, we might end up with zombies and zombie groups only bothering to attack on a given day or days, and find ourselves in a cycle where survivors gear up for three weeks and then spend the week of the full moon defending their hard-won safehouses. Having said that, such a situation would result in an interesting new metagame, where zombie groups would be expected to attack during the full moon, but if they didn't they might get the drop on poorly-prepared survivors. All right, that will do to begin with. Any thoughts?

Discussion (Zombies gain bonuses during full moon)

This is probably a stupid question but is it full moon at the same time in all parts of the world? Obviously i mean date rather than time but you get my drift... --Honestmistake 12:18, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Yep, it's the same time worldwide--or rather, close enough that it doesn't matter. In fact, Kevan could even just create Malton's own lunar cycle that's a perfect 28 days rather than Earth's actual lunar cycle that's 29.5something days. Matching Earth's lunar cycle isn't particularly important compared to the goal of the suggestion itself. --Cynarion 12:26, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

29.5 is better that merely 28 i think. Around the globe we half different phases up to half-day difference. I feel like any cycle in Malton should be N+half days. And full moonlight would benefit harmans, making it easier to aim the shotgun at bright nights :-) Shambler for Shambala 20:34, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

They ain't vampires Francis, they're ZOMBIES! --Enigma^talk 14:24, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Just....no. Don't tie in bonuses based on time or day of the month. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 15:41, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Though short lived bonus's linked to unpredictable Eclipse's, Solar Flare's and/or Comets might prove very entertaining? --Honestmistake 17:53, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Oooh! dragon pocker!!! would be nice to play :-) Or would it be like in Heroes of Might and Magic? This week is beneficient for zombies, they increase their population +10. :-DDD Shambler for Shambala 20:36, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Lycanthropic zombies? WTF Centaurs?-Devorac 18:06, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

This is great, I could use these sort of changes to write fiction that promotes domestic abuse and make money from it:

"He gestured at himself, and then to her in quick succession as he spoke the words she'd daydreamed about whilst wasting time in class 'GANNA AZZ GANGBANG, GRAB MAH BANANA', gazing at the shimmer on his skin, KristiOTD responded 'Oh, Jorm, you sparkle!'"

It'll be awesome. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 20:35, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

No. It would be like in Heroes of Might and Magic? This week is beneficient for zombies, they increase their population +10. Shambler for Shambala 21:10, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

You're an idiot. No-one explain the joke. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 20:46, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Expected be the only one joking here? 'kay, i'd move my joke aside.Shambler for Shambala 20:54, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Move the joke back. You can't change edits once they have been replied to.--Thadeous Oakley 20:59, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Strange rule. It is not removed in deceiption, the opponent in real-time sees it removed and can just remove his one if chooses so. That would just clean page of meaningless garbage. Up to you, have it back. May try to find the explanation or plea for explanatin there.Shambler for Shambala 21:10, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

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IP Text Spam

Timestamp: Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 23:51, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Type: Minor technical change

Scope: IP limit reachers

Description: Right so, with the current system, when you have 10 or less hits remaining, you get the message: "You have XXX IP hits remaining. This could be because..... we recommend....." on your page with every action. (Or something similar). The point is, it takes up half a page of text. My proposal would be to only show the explanation and recommendations on the first appearance (10 hits left). That way, everyone who needed the message would still get it, but people who don't need it don't need to put up with it every time they perform an action. Thoughts?

Discussion (IP Text Spam)

Note: This would not change the system in any way, and the "You have XXX hits remaining line would still appear each time.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:52, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

I'd say make it an option, to let you turn it off, or truncate it - one that can be turned on or off on the options page. 23:53, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

I personally agree, but people don't tend to be fond of adding things to the already cluttered settings page. Another opinion, anyone?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:59, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

It's great for those of us who play from home, but the big warning is needed every time on shared IPs. Imagine if you just skimmed the notifications and stepped outside only to run out of IP hits because someone else was on your network. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 23:58, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Good point. What would you say to Mis' toggle option then?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:59, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

A waste of coding really dude, the option is only going to remove it from 9 screens at most per day. I play to the IP limit myself and I don't really see the need, or have any want, for this. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 00:07, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Alright then. I simply thought of it while ranting about having to scroll down a page to click the "attack barricades" button ten times. :P

Rescinded, unless anyone shows extreme interest in this.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 00:09, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad idea, but if Kevan's going to spend 10 minutes coding I'd rather have him work on something else. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 00:32, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

You could amend it to just relocate the second through tenth instances of it under the relevant game-y bits instead of above them. 00:38, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, that wasn't the real issue. As Iscariot said, it's not really a worthy use of coding time. I'd much rather he implemented pumpkin count or something. :P --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 12:00, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

That can be easily remedied by rearrangiing the page and making that warning be red letters below the mini-map instead of empty backgroun as of nowShambler for Shambala 01:30, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

An interesting idea but I don't have any strong opinions on it. If it went up for a vote I'd go with my mood.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 09:32, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

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Fences are not solid walls, game mechanics there is to be different from buildings

Timestamp: Shambler for Shambala 07:11, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Type: Change of isolation street/internals in some specific locations.

Scope: Both zombies and surviviors in soem specific locations with specific objects (like zoo cages) instead of buildings.

Description: Zoo enclosure, surrounded by wire fencing, is not solid building surround with concrete wall. Imagine a Lin cage surrounded by something like http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Chain_Link_Fence_Black.jpg and keeping it in mind rethink of all the isolatin buildings' walls impose. It is not realistic. Lion cage was made to aow every visitor from street to see, hear and smell the Lion, not to walk around blind. Even for buildings, something is seen "through broken windows". I think that: 1) it should be visible who is inside even when you are outside. It was Zoo's goal that animals behind fences be visible. So now there are survivors(usually) inside and zombies(usually) on the street. They should see each other just like animals and visitors saw before. 2) Just like the fencing alows to see through, it does not isolate sound as well. What insider say may be heard by outsiders and vice versa. For counting 50 listeners among the mob, then people at another side of fence should be considered far-standers. Say, if inside there are 60 men and outside 30 zombies, the speech of man would only be heard by some 50 of men, and the speech of zombie would be heard by all 29 zombies and some 21 men. 3) BTW, if it is wire fence like photo above, then it probably disallows any melee weapons - knifes, axes, sticks, zombie hands and teeth... - just like the concrete wall does. Afterall it was designed to keep animal and visitors safe of each another. But spaces between the wires (remember photo above?) are to allow pistols and shotguns bursts. Consider this an optional addition to sight and sound corrections above. It is realistic but it (even if only locally) changes weapons balance and might be taboo for some just to think of. I do not want 1 and 2 sunk only because no one likes 3. However i'd still describe effect of wire fencing on the firearms. Shooting through the wires is possible. AP penalty probably would be added then - you need to aim carefully, to shoot between wires of fencing. Or the penalty to hit chance might be appied - you do not aim carefully, but chance is for bullet to be deflected by the fencing especially when target is not still. How this probably would change game mechanics around zoo and other similar locations, if any? Zombies would better saw which of cages (lion enclosure, bear pit, maybe to some extent girafe and eephant houses) is full of healthy protectors or is a weak stronghold, that would allow for better planning of attack (timing and location aim). Zombies would be allowed to groan from street (they do see survivors from street), hence easier gather together to attack. Surviviors would easier see how large is the sieging horde and if they better flee or repell. If shooting through wire fencing would be allowed, then surviviours would have better chance to protect the place, compensating bonuses for zombie organization there. Combined together, that would make new unusual chalenges there for both zombies and surviviors. That would probably also make easy to survivors to reclaim cages back from zombies, provoking them to flee instead of protecting the place. However since there can be offline players they would still have the reason to fight. Alas that might allow to PKers to shoot and run, at least when the daylight shines (no electric light expected in animal cage in daytime zoo). How this probably would change game mechanics Malton-wise? In large scale - no change. Those who don't like it just don't go there. Just like forts, mansions - special place, that you can easily avoid. And just like them - it would add to variety colour of Malton for those who want to look close and intentionally go there. There is a team that strives to make Zoo special, safe recreational park for anyone. I visited zoo to see that "special", beeing little bored of random street fights. And succumbed to that wiki pages about cultural place. My zombie tourist walked in naively - and instantly got shot and then revived. It appeared to be just yet again formless random fighting there (despite i really saw some persons trying to role-play there, but their efforts could not overcome other guys' "shoot 1st" attitude, fear and lust for XP. Just like in any other location in Malton, that i left behind. Same gray colour. Zoo was great idea, and it should be something special and unusual, for those who wants some new joy or sme new challenge. We have a lot of streets with no real difference between them. Zoo is to be special. And Malton would only benefit from added variety. Also little discussion was at http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Talk:The_Lion_Enclosure PS: To some extent this might also be true for wastelands or garbage dumps junkyards (i can't remember exact description of those locations, but i remember barricading was displayed to be patching holes in fencing, so i think it is surrounded by fences too, so same idea applies for them) PPS: i also think the graffiti is to be disallowed inside cages or to be rephrased. Thee is no walls, so there is nothing that can be "painted ... on the wall" - it might be on the floor, on some box, on some plackard hanging on the fence... Maybe even some solid door be there - though such doors are not typical for zoo. But not on the wall - no walls.

Discussion (Fences are not solid walls, game mechanics there is to be different from buildings)

1 could be workable, I don't know what people who are regularly in the zoos would say, 2 I personally don't like, 3 is x-ray vision and shouldn't really be allowed.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 10:00, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

No. Just no. X-Ray vision is bad. Also, just because some of the 'building' has a wire fence through which the main entrance is, doesn't preclude walls or outbuildings for players to be in and spraypaint on. Also there's the problem of applying this same logic to other buildings, shops and malls have lots of glass and window displays, should I get to see how many people are in a mall from the outside? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 16:53, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Mall is not enclosure. It consists of many different rooms, some are observable, some are not. One can easily find a place not observable through windows. Also, malls from z-movies are usually multi-floors and protection is going for higher floors, giving up ground floor to zombies (too many glass windows to effectively protect it - malls are designed for easy entrance). And standing on the ground you cannot look into higher floors window, if you are nor girafe zombie. Enclosure is another case. It was intentionally designed to be easily observable. Calling it zoo enclosure yet making impossible to look into is non-sense.Shambler for Shambala 01:23, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Zoo displays often have little cubby-things for the animals, like a hollowed out cave tree thing in the tiger exhibit, or little treehouses in the chimp exhibit. If I were in any former animal exhibit, I would probably choose one of those to sleep in. And to spraypaint on, if needed. So that covers the Lion Enclosure and the Bear Pit. For the "houses" and the Aquarium, these are all (I assume) pavilions. These will often either have a big window showing the inside cage or a partway-indoor partway-outdoor animal enclosure, so people can see the animals from inside and outside, with information on the animal within. However, these aren't all-glass buildings, meaning one could easily find a place within either of the "houses" well away from the windows, and you wouldn't be able to hear them through the concrete without sonic ears. And as for the Aquarium, that is a completely normal building. The rest of the blocks in the Zoo are simply empty. *oh dear forgot to sign* --Enigma^talk 10:58, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

For the "houses" and the Aquarium, these are all (I assume) pavilions - agree on that. Aquariums i saw are usually several glass aquariums encased into internal walls of single usual building with concrete walls. With some controversy in Girafe House description in game, other houses and Aquarium is surely out of scope of this suggestion. G.H. most probably is too (mere description-wise. It casts doubts but not enough to change) but if wished could be adjusted as well (to seek variety in gameplay we might prefer those doubts forementioned) Shambler for Shambala 08:02, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

And to spraypaint on, if needed:: no problem. just don't call it "walls". Re-phrase it to be believable. Shambler for Shambala 08:34, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

cubby-things for the animals, like a hollowed out cave tree thing in the tiger exhibit Now try to imagine 65 humans inside the tree, beeing firting, joking, passing teacups one to another, etc. :-) Clearly, that is not THAT kind of internal container. Also think how you would barricade it from zombies. Either you would try to keep them outside fencing (then all my original arguing applies anyway), or you would surrender inside-fencing area to zeds and only barricade and protect the 'cubby-thing', which renders textual description of the place totally inadequate. And i think those cubbies are not strong enough to work against sieges, it should have been barricaded 360 degrees around.Shambler for Shambala 08:34, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Alright then. They sleep in the pavilions. Problem solved. And I can't imagine a couple 1000 people chilling in a quarter of a mall either... --Enigma^talk 00:30, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

If I were in any former animal exhibit, I would probably choose one of those to sleep in. - Truly so. Reasons would be: psychological comfort of little enclosed space rather than open-air; hiding yourself from random eye-sight of random passing rogue/zombie; protection from weather and warm air of your own breathing. But you would not expect it to be stronghold of 60+ surviviours, would you ? If you were leading few dozens mates across such former exhibit, would you still want them to hide separately in cubbies or stick together in some larger thingie? Aso to speak of nights, it depends upon ambient light. Is it fool moon? Are nearby buildings litten? In megapolises we'd forgotten what the night is. In the vilage it woud be pitch-black, when you would not be able to see your own fingers, so it might still be invisible at night. Not because of fencing, but just because of pitch-black in ruined city. However that still leaves the sounds audible thrugh the fencing. Shambler for Shambala 08:34, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

I actually think this would be a good add-on and a nice challenge. I would like there being a variety of buildings in the city, and having a change of scenery would make for a more interesting game. I understand the objection against x-ray vision, but challenge a person in real life to stare at me through a fence and not be able to see me. For the fact that it would be new and exciting(!), I would vouch for. John Ibans 15:22, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Wouldn't this also affect junkyards? Verance 00:25, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

There was a suggestion on that earlier, it was proven via pictographic evidence that the flavor reasoning (Junkyards are chain link fenced) was shit. I think that if junkyards were brought into this discussion it would be promptly and heavily face smashed. -Devorac 05:01, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Link? Date ? interesting. I looked for fencing in prev. suggestions, but they were about *making* cut-wires in doorways, not about how already existing fencing affects gameplay. Shambler for Shambala 08:15, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

That is the word! thanks. i edited PS:section. That depends on how to imagine them. Something like http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Greener_Pastures_Disposal_Site ? However it is a separate question from the zoo. The zoo is compact location of multiple fenced containers, the junkyards are single locations spread-out over the whole Malton. The effect on gameplay would surely be different and is to be thought off on it's own merits. As for me, the junkyard should be something special, not just same again buildings just painted in brown on map. I am for more variety in Malton. But that is a sugegstion to examine separately, connected to this question but not part of it. Shambler for Shambala 06:56, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Let me save you the time you are wasting. This is going to fail. This is always going to fail. You fail to address x-ray concerns, because you can't and any form of x-ray is bad and depending on how you're thinking this will integrate to the minimap means it'll probably screw with newbie zombies. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 08:52, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Every game is a waste of time, including Urban Dead. Even for Kevan, unless he is earning on the adverts and made UD advert of his programming services. So what? While it is fun waste of time and efforts no one objects. What about new zeds, you say basically that transparent net, through which they cannot see, does not confuse them, and transparent net, through which they would see will confuse them. Remains to be seen. You need not change minimap: it is quite reasonable that to look into bear pit you have to come close to the net fencing, stil staying n the street, you would not look into it while standing dozen metres away in adjacent block. And in the same block you usually pay more attention to full-text description rather than laconic minimap hints. Zoo is good that it gives you chance to compactly, locally check 'x-ray' (though there is nothing of x-ray to lok through the net) in a compact location that anyone unhappy can easily avoid. It is not global change in game but a very local one. Knowing the tase, and later you can decide to stick to it, or to change enclosures/pits to solid-wall houses and remove ambiguity altogether with through-fencing visibiity.Shambler for Shambala 20:14, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

You're misunderstanding me. The game isn't a waste of time, it provides enjoyment to many and is a good entry on Kevan's CV. The waste of time is this idea. Not only do you fail to understand the basic concept of rare doesn't equal balanced, but you're making broad assumptions about how other people play the game with no basis. This will never pass voting. This is a fact. Try and prove me wrong by putting it to voting. Watch me be amused when I'm yet again proven right. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 20:40, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

The discussion of game change is not entertaining you ? then what does keep you on this page ? why not switchign to something you enjoy ? This concept not applied here. You can not predict and avoid rare artefact. You can avoid walking into Zoo. What does voting prove ? How much share of gamers ever cared to visit this page, not to say would care to vote just this certain day ? How representative that share is ? Elitist, like PKnights' pages sound, wants to prove truth by voting??? this page alone enjoys me and is worth the "wasted" time ;-P Shambler for Shambala 20:50, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

This page solely exists to refine suggestions before they are put up for voting. Are you saying you have no intention of ever putting your suggestion up for voting? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 21:29, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

That would depend on discussion. Maybe my reasoning would be mind-changing for my opponents. May be vise versa. Maybe the suggestion would change very much. But since i do enjoy taking part in the discussion on this suggestion, in none of those cases this time would be wasted for me, nor i hope it will be wasted for all the opponents arguing with me.Shambler for Shambala 21:42, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

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Change Freerunning to Misc. skills

Timestamp: Enigmatalk 04:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Type: Skill change

Scope: Survivors

Description: Makes things a tad easier for scientists, and I never really associated vaults, long-jumps and wall-running etc. with soldiers, but with bored teenagers who like running and jumping over stuff.

Discussion (Change Freerunning to Misc. skills)

I could support this. - User:Whitehouse 11:37, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Yep --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:49, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Would be a nerf to Military survivors, as free-running is the only really vital skill that is on the Military list. Scientists have at the same time another vital skill with Diagnosis, and IMHO overall the more useful skills. (Healing and reviving are more important in the big picture, and CRing can substitute killing zombies to a good amount. Combat skills are only really useful against rotters, death-cultists, other survivors and other instances where CRing isn't a (sensible) option.) --Spiderzed 12:48, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

The trade off between military and science skills in combat is just that though. With the science skills, you can combat revive (safely) for 11 AP, at the risk of awakening a death cultist which could potentially do more damage then any zombie, or you could spend some more AP on killing the zed instead, or if it has rot (which I've noticed many zombies have in danger-zones), killing it at all. Also, keep in mind that once that death cultist wakes up, you can't combat revive it back to being a zombie, you have to pull out your trusty shotgun to put it back down. The military skills are far from vital, they are required against a good amount of rotters out there, and pretty important against the other death cultists who really really don't like being alive. And it's hardly a nerf, 25 XP isn't all that much, and imagine how doctors and NecroTech interns feel? --Enigma^talk 15:22, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

I started as a doctor. Diagnosis is only important skill, when you have steady income of FAKs. And that just requires freerunning, to few hospitals that are strong enought to be always VSB. Effectively i was turned a zombie and gained XP as zombie unti i could afford NecroLab skill + freerunning for income of syringes. Of course Necro starter woudl have XP flow from DNA extracting, for him it is not that hurting to ay more for Freerunning. OTOH i might say that the feeling of being weak and hepless helps to the mood of the game. It quickly cures your urge to be Quake-like superwarrior. And it might add to role-paying of long-term gamers, so they would wish to find and aid/protect newcomers. Those who cannot bear it from the beginning are probably not those players, who would enjoy Malton mood anyway. Whie i remember how hepless you feel w/o freerunning, i still think this skill should be hard to gain, to teach newbye a feeling himself easily becoming a prey not a hunter. OTOH i really am not sure if solidier physical training is making enough difference for two-times value difference. Maybe freerunning should be 150xp for everyone ? Shambler for Shambala 09:26, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Uh, then scouts gain a massive boon, because they will start with a 150 xp skill, like the medic, except their one doesn't do anything to hamper xp (First aid halving your xp gains from healing). I don't think it should be THAT hard to get for everyone. --Enigma^talk 10:17, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

First aid halving your xp gains from healing only wound-wise. But not AP-wise nor encumberment-wise. Personally i do not feel wounded survivors as XP-cows, hence i like this skill and do not agree it halves my XP. Looking back, hardness to get FR gave me experience of homeless miserable life, and each time i spent XP on some cheaper skills instead, did prolonged my suffering, cleaning me of trenchcoat attitude towards zombies :-) I agree that 75xp-150xp difference looks like just simple mathematics and not realistically imagining settings. Personally i'd pro equal difficulty to get FR for all classes and against making it easy to get. I'd prefer it been availabe at same cost but after gaining high level, splitting gameplay into two vastly different parts: before FR and after FR. That IMHO would enrich the gameplay.Shambler for Shambala 20:28, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't think there should be a separate skills category just for freerunning because it is "too easy" to get for military. 75-150 xp is a short distance away for firefighters, slightly longer for privates, doctors, cops and NecroTechs, and a very very long distance away for medics and consumers. It's hard as hell to find yourself a hospital/PD aside from the one you spawned in front of that's VSB or lower while still not being ruined or something, that's why the firefighter is so good. --Enigma^talk 00:39, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Not keen. To me, free-running has always been poorly named - I've seen it more as representing urban warfare tactics like mouse-holing and the like, rather than parkour. If anything, I'd like to see it renamed. Though I do agree that perhaps all the classes should have a greater balance to begin, I don't think this is quite the way to do it. 14:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

So, Nerf to military is 25xp. Boost to science class is 50xp. Civilians and revived zombies would be unaffected. So overall its a bonus. Surely? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 15:29, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Why, oh why, oh why, do survivors need anything making easier in this game? A retarded six year old with a crack habit could level a survivor easily enough. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 16:49, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm willing to pay for that study. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 16:53, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

I uh... I may live near a school and have some spare time. 00:18, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Crack habits are easy, getting a retarded six year old is the hard thing. Ring Angelina, she knows where to get kids from cheap. While you're on the phone, ask her why she isn't returning my calls. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 00:34, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

I can answer your second question Iscariot. It's because she's at Rosslessness' house, taking his money for her crack. Cookies and Cream 12:09, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

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Memories of Life - Necrotech recognition

Timestamp:  Adward  22:12, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Type: Skill Tweak

Scope: Zombies with Memories of Life.

Description: When a zombie purchases Memories of Life, they will gain the ability to tell Necrotech buildings from ordinary buildings, as if they had purchased the Necrotech Employment skill. However, if revived, they still cannot use scanners, syringes, or any other Necrotech equipment until they have purchased the Scientist skills. Basically, zombies can now tell NT buildings from the street, but nothing else.-- Adward  22:12, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Discussion (Memories of Life - Necrotech recognition)

I tried to get this through with the scent tree once. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 22:18, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

The difference, from what I can see of the spam votes, is that it's not an entirely new skill.-- Adward  22:20, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Interesting idea, though flavor-wise, it doesn't make sense, since it would imply that every zombie used to be able to identify NT buildings (i.e. they were all Scientists). If we dismiss the flavor concerns though, I tentatively like the idea. I believe in having the skill trees being largely self-contained, and this is one example where they're not. This suggestion would help that. —Aichon— 23:30, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Flavour could be something such as your zombie gaining knowledge of certain buildings, such as in Iscariots suggestion.-- Adward  22:26, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

That doesn't work though, since MoL's flavor is that the zombie is remembering things from when they were human, not learning new things. That was my concern about flavor. —Aichon— 22:46, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm with Aichon on this one, the flavor is messed up all to hell. (Why should reactivating a dead region of the Hippocampus give you access to memories you never had???) That aside I kind of like the idea... I just have this nagging feeling that there is a better way. -Devorac 23:41, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Maybe just make it a new skill off the MoL tree. As for flavor, you mean to tell me that, eventually, NecroTech is going to "higher/employ" everyone in the city?--Pesatyel 19:18, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

That would make it a dupe, and a skill that only gives the ability to see NT's is retarded.-- Adward  22:26, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Tie it to Memories by making it a vague description, not the precise marking of NT Employment. Something like "You are standing outside the Building Building. A chemical smell hangs in the air", or "You are standing outside the Building Building. A strange logo hangs over its doors". That way, the intelligence idea is preserved, but the concerns for flavour are addressed. The description, whatever is chosen for it, would only be added to NT buildings, so it does add a modicum of acumen to the zombie with Memories, but not as much as NT Employment would (the 3x3 map wouldn't be affected, for example). Kosher for everyone? 22:34, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

This idea works (especially the "chemical smell", I think). It's a bit worse than the human skill, but gives the zombies a new, relatively low-value, aspect to MoL while preserving flavor. I'd get behind this idea. —Aichon— 22:46, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

The chemical smell ties into the flavor perfectly, with that change this a definite keeper for me. -Devorac 01:13, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Just one quick thing, the door one wouldn't work out because from a flavour point of view, any survivor would notice that too, with or without being employed.

I'd keep with "Chemical smell" (seems quite plausible). But if that's the case, then this wouldn't go under Memories of Life. --Acidifiers 06:24, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

The flavour would be the newfound recognition of a smell that's always been there, perhaps. 17:50, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

We're now going over the same ground I did when I put this up. The argument boils down to:

• Those who want it to be in the Scent tree or the Memories tree
• Those that want to to be a free upgrade to an existing skill or an entirely new one
• Those who point out the flavour reasoning against either major standpoints

-- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 13:27, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Oxford union style?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 11:52, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

I've always thought a zombie shouldn't have "access" to the "living skills" (like NecroTech Employment) until they have MoL. But in this suggestion, we are boiling it down to making a zombie version of NecroTech Employment. If THAT is a bad idea, then the rest, and the flavor, is moot. If it IS a good idea, what sounds the most reasonable?--Pesatyel 05:46, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Does this really change anything ? Zombie player can always open wiki-page and just read which buildings are NT. I do not say about possible Mozilla extension to do it.Shambler for Shambala 06:01, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Some people don't meta-game.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 10:01, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

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Consistent Nonsense

Timestamp: RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 11:34, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Type: skill tweak

Scope: Anyone with ears.

Description: If I'm standing outside a building and someone inside emits a feeding groan, I receive a message "You hear a groaning from somewhere nearby." If I'm inside a building and a zombie also inside groans I get a message that says "You hear a groaning from somewhere nearby". If I'm standing outside a building and a zombie that is also outside groans I get the message "You hear a groaning from somewhere nearby". Simply put. If I'm standing Inside a building and someone feeding groans directly outside I want to receive a message that says "You hear a groaning from somewhere nearby. --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 11:34, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Discussion (Consistent Nonsense)

Errm... is this really an issue? --Honestmistake 23:32, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Not hugely game breaking, but simply a tweak. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 08:41, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I know its a simple tweak but is it really a worthwhile tweak? How often does someone groan outside while you are inside.... Don't get me wrong, I would probably vote keep but as is I just can't see it getting any actual usage. --Honestmistake 13:52, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, it's just for consistency I think. I mean, how often would a zombie scream street treats instead of eating it itself before it got away? And if you're both inside, then uh... thanks captain obvious. The only one of the three examples that probably could be useful would be hearing one inside from out. Enigma^talk 14:11, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I get the consistency argument, but I think this is a matter of it being unnecessary. If you're in a siege and zombies are dragging folks outside, you hearing the groans of the zombies outside is entirely unnecessary and completely distracting (especially in malls). Same goes for street treats: groaning for them is counter-productive to the zombie cause, since you'd be pulling zombies away from actual targets. I think it's a simple matter of practicality that we don't hear them already. —Aichon— 17:41, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

True, but say Im inside a dark building and someone drags another survivor outside, they can groan to let me finish the job for them. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:40, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I'd see a situation like that and would identify it as the prime example of why this suggestion is unnecessary. At least with the MOB, when we drag a survivor outside, we generally don't finish them since it's a waste of AP for us to do so. Ferals or zealots (members of MOB not in strike teams) will finish them off in a matter of minutes anyway. If they groan, that's just irresponsible of them, since groaning is supposed to lead to a source of food, and a single, almost-dead survivor is not a good source of food for a group of zombies. —Aichon— 18:49, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

No. But to a level one zombie a survivor on 12hp is XP gold. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 19:17, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Very true, but I just don't think it matters. Let's go through the scenarios.

• If a zombie is in a strike team, either they're not a lowbie or they're gonna get fed by the team (most hordes have this policy). Getting fed is better XP than an injured street treat (sustained 100+XP/day at times).
• If they're feral, then they're probably not inside the building anyway, but are instead following groans, so they'll kill the street treat on the way in.
• If we assume they are in the building already, then they have no way to tell the indoor groans from the outdoor, since the message you propose is the same as what's used for indoors currently.
  • Also, even if they did, they'd have no way of knowing if the street treat is still alive, since zombie anonymity would keep them from being able to tell if the zombie that dragged is back indoors.
  • Complicating matters further, due to zombie anonymity, the other zombies outside wouldn't know if there was a lowbie inside anyway, so they'd have no reason to groan in the first place.

I just don't see a scenario where a zombie would need it. All it would do is cause screen spam. Older zombies have no need for the XP, ferals kill these targets in mere minutes anyway, and lowbies can't be identified unless they're on your contacts list (i.e. in your group, basically), in which case they're already being tended to. —Aichon— 19:48, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Why the hell not? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:41, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't see why not... Enigma^talk 10:27, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm not actually following your suggestion, I'm guessing you were tired when you wrote it. Why don't we just have it as "Groaning nearby" is the location you are in when you receive the message and add a new qualifier to messages in the same block but elsewhere as regards the doors, "You hear a low groaning outside/inside"? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 18:43, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Fair. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 19:17, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

That would allow building protecters to jump out on the street and help someone newb who got in trouble (if zombie calls for dinner - he probably is in trouble :-) ). Without need to spend APs and patrol around just for case.Shambler for Shambala 06:06, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Well all the survivor would do is shoot the zombie, out on the street, thus causing the zombie to stand back up and kill the survivor. There's no way anyone can really "save" another player.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 10:03, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

He can heal him. He can C.R.A.P. zombie. He can, in rare chance they're doing it same second, can deflect zombie onto attacking himself. He even can revive just-killed newb or whisper his corpse where to go for revive point. To be true, though, if zombie groans, he does not hope to finish prey alone and short of AP. Hence one would protect against the possible coming number of zeds. But sometimes you need not help for long, but only until newb reloads page, screems and flees from zombies. And if another zeds won't come, then headshot upon groaning and short of AP zed would be help.Shambler for Shambala 21:05, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

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Crack Heads

Timestamp: Cookies and Cream 12:11, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Type: Skill

Scope: Zombies

Description: Skill gives Zombies 40% chance to do extra 1 damage while biting by cracking open the skull. Also heals 1HP if successful. Any bite attampt after this has a 10% higher chance of gaining the head bite. As usual, can be fixed with FAK, like everything else.

Discussion (Crack Heads)

Are you saying that a player with a cracked skull suffers 5hp damage from all bite attacks? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 20:45, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

No, I'm saying that, once cracked, a Zombie has a 50% chance of doing 5HP damage from connecting bite attacks. Cookies and Cream 22:16, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Kind of like a specialized tangling grasp for bite? --Honestmistake 23:28, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Possibly. It sounds like once a zombie bites, subsequent bites have a chance of doing +1 damage.--Pesatyel 04:48, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

What I had intended was that, firstly, the zombie has to get a successful bite attack. Then, they have a 40% chance to crack the skull. If the skull is cracked, the zombie does 1 extra damage, gets 1HP, and raises the chance of cracking the skull to 50%. Then the cycle repeats, except subsequent bites don't raise the crack chance. Cookies and Cream 06:32, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm having a real hard time understanding it. Can you give me an example. My Zombie ALAN managers to enter a autor repair shop and sees NEWB1 standing there. I click bite. What happens Next? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 09:41, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

And I'm having real hard time trying to find an explanation!

• Alan's first bite is rolled at 40% chance and succeeds, initiating a secondary roll which also has a 40% chance of hitting.

• The secondary roll fails, Alan does 4 damage.

• No changes occur, next bite is rolled just as the first one.

• The secondary roll succeeds, Alan does 5 damage and inflicts "cracked head" upon Newb1.

• Subsequent attacks against Newb1 have their secondary roll at 50% chance due to Newb1 suffering from "cracked head".

I hope that helped, I don't know why but I found that really difficult to explain. - User:Whitehouse 12:04, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Ok. Does tangling grasp alter this in any way.?

is cracked head a condition, like being infected?

If another zombie bites NEWB1 between my attacks do I lose the bonus. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 13:40, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's like infection, because he said it could be fixed with a good FAKing. Enigma^talk 13:57, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Assuming this (or something easier to understand but similar in effect) was implemented it would have to cause 4+1 damage rather than a straight 5 or flak would just make it pointless! --Honestmistake 13:36, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for the confusion. What Whitehouse has said is correct. That is the way I wanted it to be like. Probably should have provided an example. Cookies and Cream 13:53, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Exactly what Honestmistake said. XP is based on damage actually caused, therefore the only people that are going to suffer the extra damage are non-rotten zombies and newbies who haven't found a flak yet. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 06:51, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Simplify it down to just being a child skill of tangling grasp that means all successful bites while grasping cause an additional 1 point of damage. I've not done the maths but I would not be surprised if maxed claws were still better in the long run but still. Remember though, to make it meaningful it must be an extra point rather than a flat 5.--Honestmistake 12:12, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm. I don't know, flavor-wise it seems like a cracked skull would be a pretty serious problem, more serious than 1HP. But the HP system isn't exactly realistic to begin with. Either way it might be worth it to change the name of the suggestion if it went up for a vote. Something like, "gripping bite". And perhaps polish the explanation a little better.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 09:06, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

How about "Messy Eater: While grasping a foe the zombie uses its jaws to greater effect. All bites while grasping a target will cause an additional 1 point of damage" Leaves a lot of room for individuals to imagine their own flavour but still gives an explanaition for the extra effect. --Honestmistake 09:14, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Sorry about the delayed reaction. Thanks for all the feedback, and especial thanks to Whitehouse. I'll suggest your idea Whitehouse, with credit to you for the betterness. Cookies and Cream 11:59, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

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Suggestions up for voting

Flares or Flare Guns?