Suggestion talk:20080407 The Old One-Two
Original talk:suggestions text
Hitting Punch up a Notch
| Timestamp: | Tselita 20:27, 4 April 2008 (BST) |
| Type: | Skill |
| Scope: | Humans |
| Description: | Okay, quick and simple suggestion idea, since my HUGE one on Shotgun Shells (which I started writing 3 hours ago and just found that wiki restarted on me for no reason) just went poof for no reason and I need to take time to rewrite it.
I want punching to be less pathetic. Not too much less pathetic, but a little less pathetic. Introduce a new skill that can be bought in the Hand to Hand section called Boxing (or Karate... or Martial Arts Training... I don't care) Not for zombies because I do not want to see Kung Fu zombies. I will have to go on a bloody rampage and find the ones who suggest it if I see that. The effect is that if you buy this, it adds +10% to hit. There. Simple suggestion. Doesn't require a lot of fancy stuff on my behalf which will take me 3 hours to write up, find it got deleted from my computer, rewrite it, submit it, etc.... Benefit: If you don't have any weapon, it works. Plus if you forget to change to a weapon, at least it doesn't feel like you did something AS stupid. Reason: Why not? It'd be fun. Discuss! |
Discussion (Hitting Punch up a Notch)
Been done a thousand times and failed. Also you can't call it Karate and have headshot effects, the only decent forms of Karate don't strike to the head in sparring. -- 
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. <== DDR Approved Editor 21:08, 4 April 2008 (BST)
- Can you point out a past dupe for it? I'm just curious to see because I searched for boxing, punch and karate and it didn't show any dupes for a +10% to punch. The punch would still be only 1 damage. And ok, not calling it Karate. Boxing Training sounds better anyway.--Tselita 21:29, 4 April 2008 (BST)
- This is just one of many, this one does damage and hit ratio. The problem with this is the removal on in game limitations. Guns are limited by ammo, melee weapons by find percentages, hand to hand is unrestricted and should not be buffed. --
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. <== DDR Approved Editor 21:34, 4 April 2008 (BST)
- Hrm, after reading the suggestion you linked to, I need to point out that the mechanics and result are different. That one gives +1 to the damage (for a total of 2) and +5% accuracy. That makes punch a bit too powerful since it would be like a bat. +10% accuracy and 1 damage would be more realistic. As for melee weapons being limited by find percentages, that isn't exactly a major limitation. It's not like melee weapons will ever go away. Once you have one, it's permanent. At least with the punch thing, you'd need to still make 200 XP before you can get the skill (since it would be in the Hand To Hand branch of the tree, you'd need Hand to Hand and Boxing. The result would be 35% instead of 25%. All in all not a huge thing, but it could help for the times where you get someone down to 1 hp and have no bullets left and want to just try to punch to finish em off. But I see your point, at least somewhat. Are there any other suggestions though which do not have a bonus to damage along those same lines? Thanks Iscariot. --Tselita 23:26, 4 April 2008 (BST)
- No damage, but more %. Ditto. Ditto. Ditto. Ditto. Everyone was Kung Fool Fighting!
- Well the first three are totally different than mine, and the last one is stupid because it wants a whole new tree, but #4 is almost identical, so I guess i won't be putting this in suggestion, since it would indeed be a dupe. Thanks for doing those searches for me. I appreciate it.--Tselita 05:35, 5 April 2008 (BST)
- No probs, I was bored and had the spare time. It's also the reason this page exists. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 12:36, 5 April 2008 (BST)
- No probs, I was bored and had the spare time. It's also the reason this page exists. --
- Well the first three are totally different than mine, and the last one is stupid because it wants a whole new tree, but #4 is almost identical, so I guess i won't be putting this in suggestion, since it would indeed be a dupe. Thanks for doing those searches for me. I appreciate it.--Tselita 05:35, 5 April 2008 (BST)
- No damage, but more %. Ditto. Ditto. Ditto. Ditto. Everyone was Kung Fool Fighting!
- Hrm, after reading the suggestion you linked to, I need to point out that the mechanics and result are different. That one gives +1 to the damage (for a total of 2) and +5% accuracy. That makes punch a bit too powerful since it would be like a bat. +10% accuracy and 1 damage would be more realistic. As for melee weapons being limited by find percentages, that isn't exactly a major limitation. It's not like melee weapons will ever go away. Once you have one, it's permanent. At least with the punch thing, you'd need to still make 200 XP before you can get the skill (since it would be in the Hand To Hand branch of the tree, you'd need Hand to Hand and Boxing. The result would be 35% instead of 25%. All in all not a huge thing, but it could help for the times where you get someone down to 1 hp and have no bullets left and want to just try to punch to finish em off. But I see your point, at least somewhat. Are there any other suggestions though which do not have a bonus to damage along those same lines? Thanks Iscariot. --Tselita 23:26, 4 April 2008 (BST)
- This is just one of many, this one does damage and hit ratio. The problem with this is the removal on in game limitations. Guns are limited by ammo, melee weapons by find percentages, hand to hand is unrestricted and should not be buffed. --
- And that what I could find from a quick skim over Peer Rejected.... -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 00:32, 5 April 2008 (BST)
- And that what I could find from a quick skim over Peer Rejected.... --
Can someone please put this in the archives or something - it's been inactive for 5 days and I'm not going to bring it to Voting because The Old One-Two is a better idea, and not a dupe. Thank you. --Tselita 17:19, 9 April 2008 (BST)
The Old One-Two
| Timestamp: | Gene Splicer 00:20, 5 April 2008 (BST) |
| Type: | Skill/Change |
| Scope: | Survivors |
| Description: | That Hand to Hand Combat be renamed "Melee Combat", and that a new skill entitled Hand to Hand Combat be implemented. A Survivor with the new skill would attack twice when attacking with fists, with a seperate roll for each fist, for 1 AP. Average damage: 0.5. Chance to hit: 7/16 (0.4375). This would not crossover, Zombies are not agile enough for these shenanigans.
This would not trigger against barricades or other inanimate objects. |
Discussion (The Old One-Two)
I can't see anything overpowered about it, but alas, when not overpowered suggestions generally fall in the "useless" category. A survivor with hand-to-hand combat (or melee combat, whichever) would tend to not be too much of a noob, in which case they would have already looted a fire axe, which bests the ol' one-two.--Nathan Blackwell 13:54, 5 April 2008 (BST)
Pow pow! Knockout! A tremendous knockout by Mr. Survivor! That zombie never knew what hit him!
As you can probably tell, I like this suggestion. :D --Hhal 19:17, 5 April 2008 (BST)
Let me get this right? You want a skill that will give you a free action? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 19:34, 5 April 2008 (BST)
- Get over your self, it's just one damage, fire axes are already better....--/~Rakuen~\Talk
I Still Love Grim 20:15, 5 April 2008 (BST)
- Is it, or is it not, a free action? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 21:08, 5 April 2008 (BST)
- Just ignore Iscariot. He's a bit special. --Gene Splicer 22:13, 5 April 2008 (BST)
- In the same way logging on is a free action, yes. But this is too weak to be a skill. Make it happen after H2Hcombat. --BoboTalkClown 00:05, 6 April 2008 (BST)
- It's not a free action- it's an attack upgrade.--Studoku W! 01:47, 6 April 2008 (BST)
- "A Survivor with the new skill would attack twice when attacking with fists, with a seperate roll for each fist, for 1 AP." - Spending 1AP for something that would normally cost 2AP. Free action by any definition. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 10:40, 6 April 2008 (BST)
- No, it's not free. You have to spend 1 AP every time. You get two punches for the price of one. That's not free. Free would be doing something for 0 AP. And it's just a more flavorful way of increasing the damage of punching. --PdeqTalk* 11:11, 6 April 2008 (BST)
- Jesus Christ, do I need to draw you people a diagram? Punching someone is an action within the game with a defined cost. This skill grants an additional action for zero cost. Yes the first punch is paid for as normal, however the second one (clearly defined in the suggestion as a separate action) is free because of the skill. The skill grants an additional action for no cost, this is the very definition of free action. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 19:58, 6 April 2008 (BST)
- It isn't free, it's a bonus. It's like saying a two-for-one sale is "free". It's actually a WASTE of AP, compared to other weapons. It may, by itself be "free", but it REQUIRES the use of 1 AP, just like opening a cell phone. That's free, but for it to affect the game, 1 AP, must be spent. Also, you have to look at why "free actions" are considered bad by most. It's so you can't repeat an action over and over a million times. With this, you can't, so your point is moot. --BoboTalkClown 20:40, 6 April 2008 (BST)
- Jesus Christ, do I need to draw you people a diagram? Punching someone is an action within the game with a defined cost. This skill grants an additional action for zero cost. Yes the first punch is paid for as normal, however the second one (clearly defined in the suggestion as a separate action) is free because of the skill. The skill grants an additional action for no cost, this is the very definition of free action. --
- No, it's not free. You have to spend 1 AP every time. You get two punches for the price of one. That's not free. Free would be doing something for 0 AP. And it's just a more flavorful way of increasing the damage of punching. --PdeqTalk* 11:11, 6 April 2008 (BST)
- "A Survivor with the new skill would attack twice when attacking with fists, with a seperate roll for each fist, for 1 AP." - Spending 1AP for something that would normally cost 2AP. Free action by any definition. --
- It's not a free action- it's an attack upgrade.--Studoku W! 01:47, 6 April 2008 (BST)
- In the same way logging on is a free action, yes. But this is too weak to be a skill. Make it happen after H2Hcombat. --BoboTalkClown 00:05, 6 April 2008 (BST)
- Is it, or is it not, a free action? --
- OK, how about this; the chance to land a normal punch is p%. This skill makes it so a punch hits for 2 damage p2%, 1 damage 2p-2p2%, and misses 1-2p-p2% of the time. That's EXACTLY the same effect as getting 2 punches for 1AP, but it isn't a free action, is it? Nope, its a damage boost, just like Rend Flesh. Got it? I could draw a diagram, if you like...
Swiers 01:23, 7 April 2008 (BST)
- OK, how about this; the chance to land a normal punch is p%. This skill makes it so a punch hits for 2 damage p2%, 1 damage 2p-2p2%, and misses 1-2p-p2% of the time. That's EXACTLY the same effect as getting 2 punches for 1AP, but it isn't a free action, is it? Nope, its a damage boost, just like Rend Flesh. Got it? I could draw a diagram, if you like...
- Sorry mate, but I don't think you're following, a skill that boosts damage would require the success of your initial attack first. This skill does not. For 1AP, the cost of a single attack, this skill launches two for a single cost. The second attack is not dependent on the first hitting, if it was it could be classed as a potential bonus. This skill launches two individual attacks for a single cost; these attacks have separate and individual hit percentages and damage values. There is no 'bonus' about it, it's simply multiple attacks for no additional cost. Bonus would require something in the first place, the fact that this suggestion does not require the first attack to be successful moves it from bonus, into the realm of free action. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 01:50, 7 April 2008 (BST)
- Your not following my math. Its possible to make an attack that sometimes does 2 damage, someteimes does 1, when it hits, right? And if you set those chances of 2 vs 1 (vs complete misses) right, its still just one attack, but the effect is exactly like 2 attacks that each do one damage if they hit. That's all I did. Basic probability makes the two equivalent. Swiers 02:25, 7 April 2008 (BST)
- Swiers is correct. The flavor is that you make two attacks, but in fact it works effectively like a damage boost, in the way that Swiers described. --PdeqTalk* 02:29, 7 April 2008 (BST)
- Iscariot, do you consider "freerunning" to be a free action? It lets you move to a space and then lets you go inside for 0 cost so I was just wondering.--Honestmistake 17:26, 7 April 2008 (BST)
- Ok, now you're just trolling, buddy. It's less of a free action than barricade block, so it's not out of bounds. It's just two chances for the price of 1. Here's some math for you- 2/1 ≠ 1/0. 1/0 equals infinity, 2/1 equals two, where the numerator is number of actions, and the denominator is the AP cost. The difference between a free action and a two-for-one is that you can do a free action as many times as you want, but two-for-ones are limited by AP. Are we on the same page? --BoboTalkClown 19:07, 7 April 2008 (BST)
- Your not following my math. Its possible to make an attack that sometimes does 2 damage, someteimes does 1, when it hits, right? And if you set those chances of 2 vs 1 (vs complete misses) right, its still just one attack, but the effect is exactly like 2 attacks that each do one damage if they hit. That's all I did. Basic probability makes the two equivalent.
- Sorry mate, but I don't think you're following, a skill that boosts damage would require the success of your initial attack first. This skill does not. For 1AP, the cost of a single attack, this skill launches two for a single cost. The second attack is not dependent on the first hitting, if it was it could be classed as a potential bonus. This skill launches two individual attacks for a single cost; these attacks have separate and individual hit percentages and damage values. There is no 'bonus' about it, it's simply multiple attacks for no additional cost. Bonus would require something in the first place, the fact that this suggestion does not require the first attack to be successful moves it from bonus, into the realm of free action. --
- The maths may allow this to be interpreted as a damage increase, however the fact remains that the game engine is making two separate attacks for one AP. One of these is paid for as any other player would and the skill is giving another attack for no cost, this is free. Whether both hit, one hit or none hit, there is still an attack being made that the character did not pay for. A pure damage increase would work by adding direct damage (as with the zombie skill) or giving an additional 'roll' to increase the damage with a certain success percentage. This suggestion clearly does not. - . . <== DDR Approved Editor 19:36, 7 April 2008 (BST)
- The maths may allow this to be interpreted as a damage increase, however the fact remains that the game engine is making two separate attacks for one AP. One of these is paid for as any other player would and the skill is giving another attack for no cost, this is free. Whether both hit, one hit or none hit, there is still an attack being made that the character did not pay for. A pure damage increase would work by adding direct damage (as with the zombie skill) or giving an additional 'roll' to increase the damage with a certain success percentage. This suggestion clearly does not. -
- It does not matter how the game engine calculates this. This suggestion doesn't even specify that. Kevan could code it as only one single attack, and then have flavor text that makes you think it was actually two separate ones. You need to consider what the actual effect of a suggestion is, not what label from "Suggestions Dos and Do Nots" you can try to (poorly) apply to it. --PdeqTalk* 23:22, 7 April 2008 (BST)
Great way to finish somebody off, though, not totally useless, but more like flavor attacks, like, you know...flareguns.--Rofl. 14:15, 6 April 2008 (BST)
- I find it really wierd if a zombie player would call this a free action, but not refer to Rend Flesh or the blocking barracading efforts as a free action. Seems a bit hypocritical to me. Just my two cents.--Tselita 18:22, 7 April 2008 (BST)
- Um... I'm -supporting- this idea. I don't think it IS A free action. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of people who are saying it is.--Tselita 19:11, 7 April 2008 (BST)
- I find it really wierd if a zombie player would call this a free action, but not refer to Rend Flesh or the blocking barracading efforts as a free action. Seems a bit hypocritical to me. Just my two cents.--Tselita 18:22, 7 April 2008 (BST)
Better idea than mine below because it's not a dupe. I'd vote for it :) --Tselita 16:54, 6 April 2008 (BST)
Ok, since everyone who matters likes it, I'm throwing it up --Gene Splicer 23:13, 7 April 2008 (BST)
