Talk:Gibsonton Barricade Plan

New Proposal

since the situation is stable and good, i would ask to bring St.Alcuin barricades to VSB. I think it's very important as its the central hospital for Gibsonton and for new players starting with only First Aid the suburb is not so fitting... So i'd propose this: St. Alcuin to VSB

If you think that it's underbarricaded we can move the EP for the Ducat to Smethurst hotel from Wardle Building, but i don't think it's vital now... --MatJack1 12:30, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I think could be a good idea, probably also Oram Walk PD...--Kumanosuke 10:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Oram might benefit, but myrlea is doing the VSB thing and gets cracked by Zeds every day now.--Mr. Venom 21:53, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll come up to Oram Walk now!--MatJack1 08:34, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Actual/Original Plan

Another barricading plan for Gibsonton was painstakingly drawn up by myself long before GibPro ever even existed, and has been maintained as best as could be managed by The Imperium for quite some time. The 'new' plan outlined above does not consider a number of resource buildings, does not have as many entrances, and what entrances that do exist are spaced too far apart, and do not consider that the aforementioned resource building should be, ideally, available to all players, not just those with free running. The original plan is here: [[1]]. If people could use it, it would be in the best interests for all of the groups within Gibsonton. - RosutoEnzeru 17:26, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I am not in any group so I have no authority to decide over the barricade policy. Perhaps you could contact the leaders of main Gibsonton groups to discuss the issue with them. Until then, the current plan should be followed I think --Jonathan 13:22, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I am one of the leaders of one of the main Gibsonton groups. One of the leaders of the first group to have a real presence in Gibsonton, actually. - RosutoEnzeru 16:11, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Rosuto, first of all, these days it's difficult to know who is still active -- in the game or in any given suburb -- and who is not. The plan was created by the people who stepped forward and wanted to contribute to it. I apologize if you feel you should have been consulted, but as you can see on this page and others, MatJack did solicit input after the DEM put forth a proposed plan. Second, the current plan provides for fourteen entrances, or roughly 1/3 of the buildings in the suburb, and you're going to have a hard time going more than three steps in Gibsonton without finding an entry point. Third, the contributing people did consider every resource building in Gibsonton (as well as those within easy reach in neighboring suburbs). The plan is sound, but I am sure Brickpile and MatJack would welcome your constructive suggestions for improvement. -- Atticus Rex ^{mfu pif} Δ 05:28, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm Lieutenant of MFD for Gibsonton, the actual barricade plan has corrected many imperfections of the old one, and it is made by DEM and GibPro together, that seem, at least for this month, the only active survivor groups in this suburbs. Many heads have contributed to this, and there was a long discussion on this. It's been weeks that me and many other survivors are hard workin' on cading correctly the suburb, and seems that work very well. RosutoEnzeru, if also you have your reasons to argue with this, I must tell you that is not the right way to do, from the moment that I never seen a member of your group in a month. I am sure that captain MatJack1 will resolve your problems. Kumanosuke

Ok, perhaps I should have stated, not that it doesn't consider the importance of resource buildings, but that it does not consider the importance of resource buildings to low level survivors. In the original barricading plan, all resource buildings are to be at Very Strongly Barricaded except when zombie numbers dictate otherwise. We have to look out for the low level folks, and that is my primary bone of contention. Well, that and the fact that the plan I spent several hours coming up with and color coding long before there was a template for such things was simply thrown out the window. And as far as the Imperium not being active in Gibsonton, that's a simple falsehood. Perhaps not an intentional falsehood, but it is most definitely not true. Our members are scattered throughout the suburb doing as best as they can, and any number of us can be found in or around the church, or at some point between the church and Dowdney mall in neighbouring Santlerville where we usually go to quickly restock on weaponry.

GibPro has repeatedly ignored or dismissed comments, requests, etc. from the Imperium over the last months, and I feel that the production of this barricade plan is simply another example of the same. -RosutoEnzeru 15:54, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

RosutoEnzeru, I totally agree for what concern GibPro behaviors, that was the same with us when we ask for a better plan, but fortunately all was resolved at best. So I must tell you that this new plan is because of us of the DEM, and we couldn't know your ideas if you didn't look at this page for at least a month, GibPro was always active in the discussion and so we made a new plan together. Please understand. We all think that this new plan is good and entry points are sufficient and well disposed. Now I know where your group works, fine, as you said, you stay in a small area and you must understand that my captain MatJack1, as a DEM member, has also the duty to think for the entire suburbs and the surrounding areas. Plaese consider first to study well the new plan and I'm sure that you will agree. Anyway, we're here to discuss in peace, so you have all your rights to let us know your ideas. Kumanosuke

We do concern ourselves with the entire suburb as best as we are able, but our primary concern is the maintenance of the Cathedral. I don't make a habit of popping by suburb pages at random, so I had no idea that the discussion was going on. You also insist that the new plan is somehow 'better.' The plan instituted by the Imperium seems to have all the same benefits as the 'new' plan, with the added bonus of nearly twice as many entrances. It also, as I have pointed out, stresses the importance of keeping -all- resource buildings available to players without free running in all but the most dire of circumstances, while still making entrances available when such circumstances render resource buildings unenterable. It is also worth noting that the Imperium's barricading plan was posted nearly 11 months ago, and was brought to the attention of GibPro two months before the 'new' plan was posted, which, if I am interpreting your post correctly, was about a month before work began on the 'new plan.' - RosutoEnzeru 21:25, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

RosutoEnzeru, I found 1 member of the Imperium in all west Gibsonton, and I don't know how you can say that all the resource building must keep enterable, from the moment that they are the most difficult to defend. Well, I think I have no other things to say. Let's see what MatJack1 and GibPro leaders think. Kumanosuke

Of course they're difficult to defend. They're primary targets. But when zombie numbers are low, there's no reason to keep low level players from using them. That's the whole point. And frankly, I don't care what the GibPro leaders think, they've done nothing but ignore the Imperium and anything we've done or tried to do in Gibsonton, I don't see why we shouldn't treat them the same in turn. - RosutoEnzeru 22:44, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, I agree in many things with you, I have an idea on what could be done, I'll speak with my captain. I appreciated your way of speaking. Only one last thing: I will also appreciate seeing your members around, so I'll can be sure of your presence in the suburb, I see that the cathedral is the only one place in all west Gibsonton always not well protected, it's difficult for us to notice your group presence. Obviously, nothing personal. Kumanosuke

I personally killed one zombie and nearly killed another that breached the cathedral yesterday, so I can assure you that I, at least, am around. There's a good chance that a fair number of Imperials are awaiting revives, we're plagued by Pkers that hate roleplayers for some reason, but I will encourage group membership to make their presence more noticeable. - RosutoEnzeru 16:10, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, I talk to my captain, we are takin in consideration to lower Oram Walk PD and a hospital. You must know that we wanted to keep St.Alcuin VSB, but GibPro didn't accept this. You must be patient because MatJack1 is very busy in these days, and then I don't know how GibPro will reacts to another changement. So, let's see what happens. I have no autories in this. Kumanosuke

We don't ignore you, you haven't posted to our forums (to my knowledge) in months. I can't speak for anyone in the group right now, except to say that the lunacy of keeping our hard-defended resource building at VSB was the breaking point on the DEM plan. GibPro will defend our plan and rights to the death,make no mistake. Gibsonton is no place for noobs as it is; reducing the safety of the suburb's resources is suicide for us all. Please feel free to compile and post your grievances toward GibPro on our message board here--Mr. Venom 18:51, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not about to go to your message board, we have our own, and none of you have ever visited it. And I'm not saying that resource buildings should -always- be at VSB. I never did. I said that if there's no zeds around, there's no reason to prevent people without free running from using them. The zombie population in Gibsonton isn't usually very high (which is why a fair number of Imperium members aren't around. A few have gone on pilgrimages to hunt zombies around other sacred sites), so the buildings can USUALLY be safe at VSB. If they're being attacked, by all means raise the 'cades to EHB. That was in the original plan. - RosutoEnzeru 04:50, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

While this is an excellent principle, sadly it does not work in practice. It would require several people be on watch at any given moment per building to keep a lookout for Zeds and raise barricades from VSB to EHB in no time flat. That requires manpower on staggered shifts working in a way that we simply do not have. It's not cost-effective in terms of AP nor in terms of men, so the safety of the suburb through the most practical means available. Barricading is the principle method that survivors can beat Zeds with. Why fail to use it on account of a minority of players, very few of whom will ever bother to keep the game up for longer than a week? --Mr. Venom 18:59, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

As a neutral, uninvolved former resident of Gibsonton: Any barricade plan that calls for police stations and hospitals to be EHB is just a plan asking for low level characters to die. The first place they run are Police Stations and Hospitals, when they find them EHB they get confused, panic and get eaten by zombies. There are similar plans in the southeast part of the city that just cause mass confusion when everyone goes running for the police stations, firehouses and hospitals to discover that some over-thinking beurocrat decided they should be EHB because they came up with a "barricade plan" that they think makes more sense from a tactical perspective. Most low level survivors don't know there ARE barricade plans, nevermind the specifics that dictate that THIS police station is closed while THIS pub is open, while THIS junkyard is kept as a VS entrypoint for DEM members so that they can get back and forth to their local coffee house.... Keep it simple, or newbies get lost and die. --NEPhillyGuy 24 December 2006 (What does "UTC" mean?)

Well said, NEP. - RosutoEnzeru 03:43, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Well put, but still: refer to my points regarding the relative low value of new players. --Mr. Venom 18:04, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

They are far more valuable as low level survivors than scads of low level zombies. --NEPhillyGuy 25 December 2006

That's a better point! Forgive me, but I will return with words post-xmas. --Mr. Venom 20:31, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

NEP i agree with you is because of that that i ask everybody tagging resource building thata are EHB with the nearest entry point. This should save the newbs, they have only to read something similar to: "Entry point at 2 South 1 East". I think it's not too difficult. But not only one time i found a similar overwritten with stupid tags... It's a hard work to keep a barricade plan like this, but it's far more secure than another with resource building at VSB. Zeds goes there at first sight! --MatJack1 16:02, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Anyway i insist on not overbarricade building. now in NW there are almost every building et EHB, also if the barricade plan is not saying that, so, plaease take care of opening EP. --MatJack1 15:37, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I suggest to all the active groups in Gibsonton to visit the new forum here: http://www.gagarin.asengard.net/gibsonton/ Kumanosuke

Previous Discussion on barricade plan

What does everyone think? This is just an idea. --Hempress 15:15, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Allow me to contribute as a member of Gibsonton's premier Survivor Group, Gibsonton Proeliatorate.

We're not a pure RP group, just an understaffed set of warriors in close collaboration with the Malton Science Group. We keep the Harold Square rev-point active, and attempt to hold off the undead swarms, though at them moment our membership is a little sparse.

The plan looks kosher to me, but you'll have to clear it with Brickpile Jones (our leader) or we will be forced to maintain our current plan in defiance of yours.

Yours, --Mr. Venom 18:04, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, why are all resource buildings listed as enterable?? This is a terrible idea, not to mention that once you leave a building in certian areas, you'll have to walk for blocks to get back in. I liked the GibPro plan much better, why does it need changed? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Castore (talk • contribs) at an unknown time. (13:11, November 29, 2006)

There's no resource building enterable, look at the map and the legend. Think first.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kumanosuke (talk • contribs) at an unknown time. {10:26, December 4, 2006)

Firstly, sign your posts guys. Secondly, the DEM plan has been changed to mirror our own in many respects. In the proposed version, all resource buildings were VSB and all others EHB. Which is lunacy.--Mr. Venom 18:02, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

It's only the template, the legend is the template of the map, look at the map for the right informations. --MatJack1 18:13, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I waited hoping that someone would give suggestion, but i couldn't get any feedback... now i propose my plan, i hope we can discuss on it. --MatJack1 16:43, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

"St. Alcuin's Hospital completely overrun. 3 Zeds inside, no barricades. Soadsod 03:58, 4 December 2006 (UTC)"

Do you see what happens? Alcuin's was at VSB when I last checked. I went searching around the suburb checking up on my troops. Then check the wiki later in the night, and this is what I see. Do you see what happens when it's at VSB? Zeds get in easier. AND THEY KNOW PEOPLE ARE IN IT BECAUSE IT'S A HOSPITAL, LIT, AND BARRICADED. If we keep it at EHB barricaded, and everyone knows it needs to be there, not only is it harder to get knocked down, but much easier to keep barricaded, that is because there is more to go through, and whenever survivors see it as lower than EHB, they will fix it.

This is why your plan fails. --Brickpile Jones

(please sign your post)

Yes, and you know that your plan is never attended? and that you have THREE hospitals at VSB... so i suggest to have only ONE hospital at vsb for people without freerunning. One is better to keep than three...

Having seen that your plan is completely disattended in most part of Gibsonton i'll tell my men to use the plan that EVERYBODY can work on and not a plan that only YOU of GibPro have decided (having seen that you don't apply it...)

If you don't want to collaborate with us, it's ok, just please think before saying that our plan fails, when your is much worse... --MatJack1 10:52, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Alright, this is getting no where. Let's put hostilities aside and figure this out like men. MatJack, if you agree to stall the implementation of your plans until all groups involved have come to an agreement, then I, in turn, will talk. Do you accept these grounds? We ought to work this out like intelligent folks instead of trying to out 'powerplay' one another. If you have AIM, this will make things much easier. --Brickpile Jones

ok,sure i WANT to talk, i have AIM, tell me your account i'll contact you as soon as possible. --MatJack1 15:30, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

walleye8lb --Brickpile Jones

I have done less modifications as possible: on thing that i find necessary is to have only one hospital at vsb and i think that should be the central one, it's the easier to get to.
Beacuse of this in the northern part of Gibsonton i have changed the entry points near the hospital
same thing with the eastern and central one
at south the only things changed is the hospital.
Last change is canner building that is EH because it's an NT building. --MatJack1 16:17, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

St.alcuin has to be VSB as it's near GibPro HQ, and Aldain has to be VSB since the nearby hospital in Dunningwood is EHB. --MatJack1 16:27, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I just want to make it clear that the plan that I posted above was a tentative plan, e.g. NOT set in stone. It was merely a starting point for all of us to work on. So I'm not quite sure where all of the hostility is coming from. That said, my AIM is HempressOfShish. It would be nice if we could discuss this in a chat room. --Hempress 17:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

This is the last plan done by Brickpile Jones from GibPro and DEM --MatJack1 19:01, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Actual uses

actually, residants are using three buildings as entry points which are taged EHB on the barricade plan. i think this plan should be updated.

Oram Police Department 82.23 is kept VSb to help low level players stocking up on ammo, helping de facto the area to be safe.

Saint Alcuin's Hospital 84.25 is kept VSb to help low level residants stocking up on FAKs, improving heal rate in central Gibsonton.

The Peerless Museum 89.25 is an entry point since 1W bar is used by a group.

-- Waughn 09:38, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Suggestions

If you have any suggestions please write them here!

St. Alcuin's Hospital should be VSB

We are still keeping this Hospital at VSB. Doing this has helped out tremendously in regards to low levels getting FAKs and getting their XP up. We really think that this plan should be evaluated and changed to reflect this. -- ccomeaux / Winchester Boyz

I tried to help by making the hospital match the plan, but ccomeaux said "Thanks for the effort Mike, but the inhabitants of Gibsonton have decided to keep this an entry point at VSB for noobs to get FAKs". I changed the plan. --Mike Thriller 22:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Entry point switch proposal

I propose we change the barricade status for The Wardle Building (currently an entry point) to EHB, and bring Amatt Place School (1 North, currently EHB) to VSB, for use as the entry point instead. This way, the area surrounding St. Alcuin's is a rough mirror of the area around St. John's, which also uses a school as an entry point. Knowing that both of these schools are safe and available to enter is an easily grokked idea that would help new players learn the lay of the land quicker. It also serves to spread the entry points out slightly, as there currently exist three within a 2x8 corridor (St. Alcuin's, Wardle and Noyce Plaza School). Entirely inconsequential strategically to anyone with free running, but again, having two nearby entry points share a building type is a nice learning mnemonic for newer players. Both buildings are constantly monitored for barricade status by Benzuli Expansion, so retaining any new barricade plan will be down to myself and those under my command. I'm only making more working for myself! :P 13:32, 19 September 2009 (BST)

I agree with this assessment, as I frequently patrol the routes and the locals and new players would be much less confused if the layout for that particular section of Gibsonton to be uniform and mirror the setup for St. John's since the buildings do. Furthermore, I believe that all centers of learning should be kept at VSB. The reasoning for this is that the pursuit of knowledge should be available to a player of any level. Goribus 01:08, 21 September 2009 (BST)

I also agree with the aforementioned proposals and am willing to do the upkeep in maintaining the new levels in the area._♥AU10♥Pantomime _{Mistress of Pain}┌∩┐(◕‿◕)┌∩┐03:20, 5 October 2009 (BST)