Talk:Suggestions/17th-Jan-2007

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See Barricades

Timestamp: 13:23, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Type: Improvement.
Scope: All player.
Description: All players, for the expenditure of 1 AP, would be able to see a vague description of the barricade strength in the eight blocks surrounding them when standing in the street. In addition to this, survivors with a pair of binoculars, inside any building, will be able to "go to the roof" or "peer out the windows" and check the strength of the barricades in the surround eight blocks for the expenditure of 2 AP. There will be an extra selection in the binocular's drop down menu allowing you to check barricades, which will bring up a 9 block map, centered on the building you are in.

The accuracy with which you can judge the strength of the barricades is of course going to be lower than checking the barricades at the block you are standing in, there would only be three categories, strong (VS and above), light (QS and below) and doors open (represented by an S, an L and an O on the corresponding map square after you "check 'cades").

Residents of large buildings can check the barricades in the other sections of their building for 1AP, but they wouldn't see any of the 'cades of adjoining buildings unless they used the 2AP, "go to the roof" option of checking the surrounding barricades (or went outside and checked).

The AP expenditure is justified by the fact that in order to check out the surrounding barricades, you need to make an effort. Outside you'd have to move around obstacles (buildings, trees, monuments, wrecked cars) to get a view of every building, and inside a building it would be double, because you'd have to climb to the roof and then walk around it, or walk around to all the windows and peer out one on each side of the building. Inside large buildings is like being outside, you'd still need to move around to get a view of the other sections, but not be able to see anywhere else without making the added effort of "going to the roof".

I believe this is a balanced suggestion, because zombies (esp. ferals who don't have access to metagaming) will be able to tell where to attack more effectively (of great use in large building sieges, where they can be stuck attacking a corner when the one next to them is wide open), and survivors will be able to keep an eye on their neighbor's 'cades. It will allow both sides to get to "where the action is at" more often.

Discussion

  1. Author Keep - Yeah, like I was going to kill -- boxy T L ZS Nuts2U DA 13:23, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
    Looks good enough. --Slice 'N' Dicin' Axe Hack 13:51, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


  1. Kill - Inverted X-Ray vision? The idea is okay, but line of sight for the 3x3 blocks is ridiculous, except for the binocs implementation. On the ground, it would be more reasonable to have to choose a cardinal direction, and only see the cade strength in a straight line.--SporeSore 13:58, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
  2. Changing my vote to kill due to Sporesore's vote. Put it as viewable only with a binocular and I'll vote Keep. --Slice 'N' Dicin' Axe Hack 14:28, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
    Re: Bloody hell, you want me to change the suggestion so that it only applies to survivors? Bugger that -- boxy T L ZS Nuts2U DA 14:40, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
    No, no, no. Leave the zombie part alone. Just have only the survivors who need the binocs. Unless you plan on adding in a skill which gives zombies excellent eye sight... --Slice 'N' Dicin' Axe Hack 14:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
  1. spam - overpowered x-ray vision and a probable dupe but I'm not checking peer rejected for this one. --Funt Solo Scotland flag.JPG 14:07, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
    Re: I don't see it as x-ray vision. Barricades are outside the doors (otherwise you wouldn't have to open the doors after knocking down the 'cades), so why can't you see the exterior of the buildings next to the block you're standing on (ya bloody spam machine, you!) -- boxy T L ZS Nuts2U DA 14:20, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Further Discussion Axe Hack, why should the zombies on the street be able to check out the surrounding barricades for 1 ap, but the survivors need to have binoculars and go to the roof, or whatever? -- boxy T L ZS Nuts2U DA 15:51, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

And Funt, what with the x-ray and overpowered? It's not overpowered, it benifits zombies as much as survivors... maybe more so -- boxy T L ZS Nuts2U DA 15:51, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's overpowered for either a zombie or a survivor to be able to see that much of their environment. There's nothing to say that barricades are either inside or outside. One would assume that they're inside (because if you were barricading a building, you wouldn't do it from the outside). The thing with the door can be explained in many ways - it could be an inner door of the building, for example, and not the main door. I mean, this is a game - in real life there is not one door and only one door to a building - unless it's an outdoor toilet. One could easily assume that the open door function is referring to the ability to open doors (plural) rather than a single uber-door. I think it's daft to assume one can tell how strongly an entrance is barricaded from outside a building. What side of the building can you see? Well, one. What side is the barricade at? In order to see all sides of a building, one would require X-Ray Vision. This ability is tempered in the game by only allowing you to see the 'cades of the building of the square you're currently in - which, for 1AP, is fine. For 9AP, you could walk around all the squares in a 9-cell neighbourhood, but you're suggesting it be allowed for 2AP. Thus, overpowered x-ray vision. QED. And, it's a dupe. Pyre threw this one about a while ago. --Funt Solo Scotland flag.JPG 16:43, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Here is why I think this suggestion will encounter opposition. X-ray vision covers anything that lets a player see through walls, either inside or outside. It is being called X-ray because for a very small amount of AP, it reveals too much information. At present it takes a considerable amount of AP to recon an area. This forces both survivors and zombies to move around. It also forces survivors to make an effort to communicate with each other ingame. This suggestion will make it much too easy for a survivor to find shelter and survivors trapped outside make good eats. I would, however, be in favour allowing survivors to determine neighbouring(3x3) cade strength and zombie numbers using binoculars from rooftops at a cost of 4-5AP --SporeSore 16:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

I'll answer you both at once, if you don't mind. OK, you do have a point about only being able to see one side of a building from an adjacent square (so you have me on realism grounds, bah to realism, 'tis a game ;)). This is similar to being able to see powered buildings from a distance, or how many zombies are standing in a block 3 squares away (with binoculars), I think. There's no way you could see every zombie that far away, even with binoculars, some would be behind buildings, trees, monuments. I don't think you can call it overpowered though when both sides get a significant advantage from it... it balances out and doesn't overpower one side against the other. I'd be totally against limiting it to survivors with binoculars though SporeSore, I really suggested it because I thought that the zombies need it, rather than survivors. Anyway, I'll think about it, see if I can make any improvements, and resubmit it later I guess. Another work in progress -- boxy T L ZS Nuts2U DA 00:57, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Whatever you decide to do, I suggest you increase the base AP cost to a higher fraction of what it would cost to get all the same information normally. I do not think yours is a bad suggestion, but I do have trouble imagining the zombie version. Even though players currently have a sort of X-ray vision in being able to see all other players in a 3x3 block, this is an accepted necessity to make the game playable, a willing suspension of disbelief. It will be a hard sell to convince voters to extend this ability to barricades.--SporeSore 13:19, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Realism-wise, you wouldn't see through the building in the block you occupy, you would walk AROUND that building, looking at nearby buildings. That seems a believable action, though maybe a bit cheap for 1 AP. OTOH, you would get MUCH more info if you spent 8 AP touring the 8 blocks surrounding yours- but this would likely require going outside. However, it just may not be an appropriate game mechanic. Limited info is a useful game feature. --Swiers 02:33, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Rifle

Thanks for everyone who contributed (your advice was appreciated) but alas the idea was doomed to failure as it was mathematically accurate and something new for survivors.--Etherdrifter 18:08, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

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