Talk:Firearms

Assault Rifles Rumour Mill . . . .

I also heard that - some guy told me he has an assault rifle that uses pistol clips - suppose there's some truth in that, the clips could be emptied in real world scenario to load a magazine - anyone heard the same - I hear they are very few & far between

Suuuuuuurrrre...Even if this random person DID have an assault rifle: a.) it would be documented here, b.) assuming it holds ~30 bullets in each "clip," then it would take five pistol clips just to reload one time (or did this person claim that he found assault rifle clips too?), c.) even if point "b" turns out to be accurate, assault rifles don't hold the same type of ammunition as revolvers, so it wouldn't work anyways, and d.) "gullible" isn't in the dictionary, did you know? Adam Readman^{t c j} 22:56, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually several handgun munitions can be used with certain rifles (or more accurately carbines), The .50 beowulf springs to mind. But that's irelevant 'cus assault rifles have less chance of appearing in game than, say, beer flavoured cheese. --Elbowhead 00:45, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Flamethrowers!

Someone told me they opened a crate and found an assault rifle AND flamethrower!!! I can't even find a crate :( Zombiek 15:07, 13 July 2006 (BST)

I have heard that the new supply crates contain a limited number of Flamethrowers (from a VERY good source!) - has anyone found them yet? I presume they will need to use a fuel can, therefore reducing the number of these to power generators, this will then have an inverse and indirect impact upon the rates of succesful searches in unpowered buildings. This seems a fair trade-off to me.

I think it is not true, they may have been speaking of another game similiar to this one.--Warlord zephyr 18:55, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

No. No flame throwers. Period. Ever.--Airborne88^T|ZC|MI|E! 01:23, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Gun sizes

Does anyone have a list of the size of each gun/item? It seems that shotguns take up more inventory space (2 slots I think) than regular items. Do other guns/items take up more space? --Pzychotix 03:17, 27 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Both pistols and shotguns, empty or full, each count as two items. All other items count as one. --dayfat 05:59, 30 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Incidentally, this is because one inventory slot is used to hold the weapon itself, and one is used to hold the ammo. --ThePastor 16:26, 21 April 2006 (BST)

Radios count as 5 inventory spaces, because, it is thought, the first is the radio itself, and the other four are the radio frequency

Flare Guns

When you use a flare gun in combat, is it visible as a 'flare' to people nearby? Does it matter if the flare hits or misses? --RodgerYoung 21:44, 21 Sep 2005 (BST)

It's never visible, no. I suppose its light is masked by the buildings if you're letting it off at ground level. --Spiro 21:47, 21 Sep 2005 (BST)

Thanks - I guess there are just that many people firing flare guns around me... that can't be a good sign. --RodgerYoung 21:54, 21 Sep 2005 (BST)

Is the "radius of visibility" of the flare gun known? --Joeyo 04:54, 30 Nov 2005 (GMT)

I've seen as far as 14 blocks away (making it have a radius of 28), but on the FAQ page, Lord Kelvin claims to have seen 18 (or 36 blocks). --dayfat 05:59, 30 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Um correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a flare 14 blocks away make the radius 14 and the diameter 28? Or is that my math? Fireswordfight 21:37, 14 Feb 2006 (GMT)

Yes. Nothing wrong with your math :D --Brizth ^W! 21:41, 14 Feb 2006 (GMT)

The flare gun has a distance of 18. It can't be considered a radius, since it's not visible in a circle, but rather, a square. 18 blocks N, S, E, W, diagonal, and anywhere in between is visible, as long as the survivor who sees it is within 18 blocks of the one who fired the gun. --Shotgun101 15:34, 14 April 2006 (BST)

Flare Gun Accuracy w/Training

Silly question as I may be misreading this: firearm training adds 25% to ALL gun usages, but in the Flare Gun section it is written that with said training, the Flare Gun accuracy is only increased to 15%. How is that math working? I can expect that advanced pistol training will not apply to the flare gun, but shouldn't the accuracy of te weapon with training be 27.5%? (Still poor, but better than 2.5% and better than the wiki's 15%) Pakopako 03:20, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

It is in actuality 15%, probably a typo on the skill description. Flares are kept low, probably because if they go much over 15% they would easily be the best weapon in the game. --Karek^maps?! 02:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Flare guns suck, even in real life.--Airborne88^{T Zom MIS} 10:40, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Maybe but, as a survivor with only the base gun skill they are the best weapon you can use, if you manage to find them in the course of normal searching they're nothing but helpful.--Karek^maps?! 13:04, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

There is a way you can make flare guns useful but you will need to get some fuel cans and a bunch of flares.Once you have enough supplies and you are at the place where your target or targets is,hit them with fuel cans until its says their clothes are fuel-soaked.Then hit the target who is fuel soaked with a flare and you will do a whopping 30 (24 if the target has a flak jacket.)With their health low you can easily finish them off.--Gamestriker4 19:12, 27 July 2008 (BST)

Unusual places to find pistols

I recently was wasting some AP and found a pistol with bullets inside outside in a memorial square. Has anyone else found these outside? Is it just memorials, or anywhere on the streets?

I believe it's anywhere on the streets. This is highly unreliable, however, and nowhere near the search percentages of finding in a dedicated place. -- Odd Starter 06:33, 21 Sep 2005 (BST)

I'm not 100% certain, but I believe you have a 2% chance to find practically anything (barring the NecroTech Building only items I believe) out on the streets. --Amazing Rando 00:42, 22 Sep 2005 (BST)

That kind of makes sense when you look at it: Many survivors are running around outside and they die, and doing so they probably drop stuff like, pistols, shotguns or even revival syringes! --Carfan7 04:05, 27 Nov 2005 (GMT)

From a role playing stance, certainly, but it a block with several bodies doesn't seem to have more or better items than an empty one.--dayfat 05:59, 30 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Based on the fact that all pistols in Malton have a 6-shot capacity, it is a safe assumption that they are revolvers. However, as semi-automatic pistols are fed by Magazines, not Clips, one could assume they are six-shot, Magazine-fed semi-automatic pistols, which do exist, AND ARE USUALLY USED AS CONCEALED CARRY GUNS!--Dean6824 00:55, 4 December 2007 (UTC). It would be highly unlikely to find such a pistol at a police station. Police generally prefer high capacity 9mm and .40 caliber pistols that normally hold more rounds. It is possible that it might be a lightweight magnum automatic, doing half the damage of the shotgun, and that most models hold 6 or 7 rounds. It is also possible that the pistol is a 38. special. This accounts for its weight and could be found in use with the Police and is a likely weapon to find in evidence rooms.

Based on the above mention, the 38 special can be found lying around plenty of urban areas. Even washed up in the gutter somewhere. Pakopako 00:09, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Just a thought, I actually know of a weapon that exactly fits the "loaded from 6 round clips" description, even though it would be a rather rare item (I actually own one by the by), its a Mauser C96 Repeating Pistol with the smaller fixed 6 round magazine loaded from stripper clips. 7.63mm Mauser ammunition if I recall correctly. Of course, some revolvers can accept full moon clips (of different number of rounds depending on the cylinder), but "6 round clips" is rather ambiguous as to whether they mean stripper clips, or full moon clips. My $0.02. -Belieth 2255, 12 Feb 2008 MST(GMT -7)

Yes, I have found a pistol clip outside in the street. Also a cell phones and a baseball bat. I suspect you can find other things too. The search rates for streets actually aren't all bad; I'd say its at least 10% of the time that you find something. Not saying its a TRP, but you do find stuff...  Swiers 22:43, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, possibility to find something outside is about 6%. Things to be found outside are: shotgun shell, crowbar, newspaper, pistol, baseball bat, mobile phone, book, spray can, length of pipe, pistol clip, flak jacket, flare gun, knife --~~~~ [talk] 09:42, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Reloading

I don't want to waste my ammo, so I'm asking this as a question rather than figuring it out for myself. When you click on a pistol clip in your inventory, will it always reload the empty (or emptiest) pistol that you have available, regardless of the order in which they appear in the inventory? --Uborkapete 17:41, 27 Sep 2005 (BST)

This is correct. A Pistol with 0 bullet will always be reloaded before one with 1. --Zark the Damned 18:06, 27 Sep 2005 (BST)

I'm pretty sure that's not the case, unless Kevan updated it and I didn't notice. CatEar Alucard 12:16, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

---

How do you find more weapon ammo? Can you find it just by searching? What are good places to search?

You can find it in Police Stations, Armouries and Malls (Gun Stores if you have the Shopping Skill)

Ditto for the weapons themselves, but you can also find Flare Guns in Fire Departments.

---

Is it accurate to call guns, shot guns and flares 'ranged weapons'? It's not like a gun can be used to shoot from windows, or into another square. It's more like weapons that require ammunition. Flares are the only weapon that have a range effect, and it's range effect is only a none battle function.

I believe it stems from a classic RPG distinction between ranged and melee weapons. I agree, for UD it's not that relevant, but it's traditional and thus people might find it easier to conceive of it this way. --Markus 00:16, 15 Sep 2005 (BST)

The fact they're ranged reflects on their higher accuracy. When you try to hit a zombie with an Axe, for example, you have to close in, dodge any eventual attack, strike, and retreat. All that in only one AP. If you're using a pistol/shotgun/flare you only have to take aim and fire. Much less work, more time to build up accuracy. It's an in-character explanation, but works to me.--Omega2 16:48, 18 Sep 2005 (BST)

Perhaps a better term for these weapons would be "Firearms", seeing as the only ranged weapons we're seeing are, in fact, guns... -- Odd Starter 02:54, 22 Sep 2005 (BST)

Changed it. --LouisB3 00:14, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

---

What is "real damage", and why is it different than any other damage stat? It might be a good idea to cut down on the number of stats on this page; they seem excessive to me. --LouisB3 02:11, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Edit: Removed real damage, since apparently no one knows. --LouisB3 14:57, 13 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Shotguns

Why is it that the comment for a shot gun is so negative? I understand that it takes a long time finding those bullets, but the description of the shot gun is so biased, it would make newbies not want to use it. Shot guns not only do a great damage, good for final blow (if not using flare gun), but it also has a lower usage of APs in reloading and firing. It also has the same hit rate as a pistol. Anyone care to tell me what is so bad about a shot gun? Fireswordfight 21:45, 14 Feb 2006 (GMT)

The description isn't that different from the Pistol. The Shotgun is described more favorably than the Flare gun, as it should be. The problem with the Shotgun is that the only way to accumulate Shotgun ammunition also concurrently loads your character up with Pistol ammunition -- about 5 to 6 times more pistol rounds than shotgun rounds. If you spend XP on Shotgun Accuracy skills before you take Pistol skills, you will cause less damage and waste more time searching for ammo, regardless of whether you are only firing your preferred weapon or unloading both weapons. Whether the shotgun is useful or not as a final blow depends on how many hit points the target has, and whether you want to overkill. Overkilling wastes your ammo when it comes to tactical advantage: a cheaper shot would still kill the target. But since the XP reward of each shot is independent of the life total of the target, overkill allows you to massage additional XP from a target-poor environment. --Tycho44 22:20, 14 Feb 2006 (GMT)

And if you don't like the description, feel free to write it in more neutral tone. This is a wiki afterall. --Brizth ^W! 23:00, 14 Feb 2006 (GMT)

Anybody ever wondered why people get mad over the 2-shell limit? The legal limit in hunting in the U.S. is also 3 shells. (Plus, the shotguns could be double-barreled, which can be fired separately, only allowing for two shots.) --Shotgun101 15:22, 14 April 2006 (BST)

Am I missing something, or is there no reason not to carry multiple shotguns, enough to hold all the shells you gather during a foraging session? (I.e., forage until you've got all your shotguns loaded, then head out to where you can find zombies to shoot.) Not only do you get to carry them for no extra space (two slots for shells, or two slots for loaded gun), but you also have your reloading AP stored up for fast use when you need it. --Dan 05:19, 10 May 2006 (BST)

Room in the game mechanics for another weapon?

I think there is. It would be a high-capacity, low-efficiency weapon. It would let you carry more stored AP from the happy searching grounds of Caiger to the embattled hinterlands, but only at the cost of taking more AP to get it there. Its damage per combat-AP would be between that of the pistol and that of the shotgun. Any opinions? --Dan 05:09, 10 May 2006 (BST)

Take it too Suggestions. However do be aware that ideas for other firearms have pretty much been done to death already, and you probably will not get a very enthusiastic response. – Nubis ^NWO 05:22, 10 May 2006 (BST)

Actually, I had already posted it there, and withdrew it after a whole lot of kill votes from people who seemed to think it was another high-power weapon, rather than reading what I wrote. I've seen a whole lot of high-power weapons in the old ideas, but no high-capacity weapons with enough drawbacks to make them balanced. And there's basically no discussion there, just knee-jerk kill votes. (Even though the rules say you're supposed to have a reason.) So I figured worth a try in firearms disussion. --Dan 02:17, 11 May 2006 (BST)

Italicized comments

The italicized flavor rationalizations/speculations that follow each description seem fairly pointless. Besides, they're absurdly lengthy compared to the actual entries on each gun. --LouisB3 03:36, 25 May 2006 (BST)

Barricades and Firearms

I've noticed that unarmed Firearms can be used against barricades, it's an interesting bug but is it worth adding that if you don't have a melee weapon that you can used an empty pistol or Shotgun to break a barricade? --Rogue 04:22, 9 June 2006 (BST)

Pistols

I think there needs to be a discussion on the italicised comments in the Pistol section - IMO, much of this information is irrelevant (survivors rushing to unload and thus wasting ammo, etc.). The only pistols I know of which have a maximum capacity of six rounds and use *clips* are revolvers. As such, I feel that it can be safely deduced that the pistols in Malton are revolvers and should be listed as such in the article so we can cut down on the confusion and the comments in italics. intooblv 20:40, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I went ahead and trimmed the excess italicized info in the Pistols section, since in two months not a single person had anything to say about it. intooblv 17:12, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I think the pistol is a Glock 36 which has a 6-round capacity so I have changed the article accordingly. Yak-38M, 14 May 2007 (GMT)

No way, Jose. The Glock 36 is a tiny slimline subcompact in .45 ACP. You won't find these in police departments, other than as officers' personal backup weapons. If there is only one pistol in the game as a common police and civilian gun, and it's six shots, it logically must be a revolver. Not a semiobscure subcompact .45 pocket gun. I somehow doubt we'd be finding tiny Glocks strewn among the rubble of a ruined city, while also using outdated double barrel shotguns. It make no sense. A plain-jane .357/.38 revolver is our ticket, and is thematically correct accompanying a double barrel shotgun. Accordionhero Sun Feb 24 16:49 Eastern USA

True, but the Glock 36 (as well as all modern autoloading firearms) use magazines, not clips. Also, some revolvers that are chambered for non-rimmed rounds (like 9mm or .45 ACP) require the use of moon clips to be loaded properly. MiskaTONIC, 28 May 2007 (GMT)

I found a revolver that could fit the bill. A Ruger SP101. According to Rugers website it fires .357 but can also hold .38 Special (Thats what the site said). It looks to be a six-gun, but I dunno if a police force would use it. Theres also the possibility of the .38 Spc. Smith & Wesson 646. Uses moon clips like the Ruger, and also seems to be a six-gun. However, it was a limited edition gun, so Im not sure. Anyways, thats my 2 cents. ~~CamDemon, August 23rd 2007

I know that Taurus, and several other gun makers provide a means of reloading rimmed or rimless cartridges with full moon clips. http://www.gunblast.com/Taurus_Tracker.htm

The term "clip" has been used interchangibly with the more correct term magazine. For example, John carries 12 clips for his AR-15. Now, we definitely know that the AR-15 is a semi-auto, magazine fed rifle, so there is no confusion about what it uses as its feeding device. But, it really doesn't matter. Seeing as this game is most likely in England, we're lucky that there's any firearms at all.Medic 812 21:35, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Hey guys, just so you know, any .357 magnum revolver can shoot .38 special interchangably. I updated the picture to a 6 shot Ruger Security Six in .357 (and thus also .38) because we're not killing zombies with museum piece .455 Webleys you can't hardly get ammo for anymore. I also changed the shotgun because an over/under "grouse gun" is ridiculous for a zombie movie. I replaced it with a side by side hammerless coach gun which are far more common. -- Accordionhero Feb 24 2008 02:50 eastern USA

Pistol Statistics

Just a quick note on statistics within UrbanDead. It is useful to keep in mind that there is a difference between median and mean. In the following discussion, let's assume a survivor with Pistol Training skill is fighting nothing but 50HP, jacketless targets. The mean is the average as understood by most of us. The simplest way to calculate this number is to take the total number of shots fired and divide by the number of targets killed, and that gives you the average or mean number of shots to kill one. However, if you look at the distribution of shots fired to kill each zombie, you will see that more often than not, it takes less than the given average of 19 shots to kill one. The median works out to be about 17 shots. The reason for this is that there is an absolute minimum number of shots to kill a 50HP target-- 10 shots. However, there is no such absolute maximum: it is theoretically possible to have a run of bad luck that makes it take far more than 19 shots to get the kill. These statistical abberations push the mean above the median. The table below gives the chance that a target will be killed after any given number of pistol shots. In the near future, I'll be adding a wiki page on Kill Probability giving similar data for all weapon types and hopefully for zombie attacks as well.

# of Shots	Basic Firearms (30% hit)				Pistol Training (55% hit)				Adv. Training (65% hit)				# of Shots
	w/o Flak		w/ Flak		w/o Flak		w/ Flak		w/o Flak		w/ Flak
	50HP	60HP	50HP	60HP	50HP	60HP	50HP	60HP	50HP	60HP	50HP	60HP
10		--	--	--	0.3	--	--	--	1.3	--	--	--	10
11		--	--	--	1.4	--	--	--	6.1	--	--	--	11
12	<<		--	--	4.2	0.1	--	--	15.1	0.6	--	--	12
13	0.1			--	9.3	0.5	<<	--	27.8	3.0	0.4	--	13
14	0.2			--	16.7	1.7	0.3	--	42.3	8.4	2.1	--	14
15	0.4				26.1	4.2	1.1	<<	56.4	17.3	6.2	0.2	15
16	0.7	<<			36.6	8.5	2.8	0.1	68.8	28.9	13.4	1.0	16
17	1.3	0.1			47.4	14.7	6.0	0.4	78.7	42.0	23.5	3.3	17
18	2.1	0.1	<<		57.8	22.6	10.8	1.2	86.1	54.9	35.5	7.8	18
19	3.3	0.3	0.1		67.1	31.7	17.3	2.8	91.3	66.6	48.1	15.0	19
20	4.8	0.5	0.1		75.1	41.4	25.2	5.5	94.7	76.2	60.1	24.5	20
21	6.8	0.9	0.2		81.6	51.2	34.1	9.6	96.9	83.8	70.6	35.7	21
22	9.2	1.4	0.4		86.7	60.4	43.5	15.2	98.2	89.3	79.2	47.4	22
23	12.0	2.1	0.7	<<	90.6	68.7	52.8	22.0	99.0	93.2	85.8	58.6	23
24	15.3	3.1	1.2	0.1	93.5	75.8	61.5	29.9	99.5	95.8	90.6	68.7	24
25	18.9	4.4	1.7	0.2	95.6	81.7	69.4	38.4	99.7	97.5	94.0	77.1	25
26	23.0	6.0	2.6	0.3	97.1	86.5	76.2	47.1	99.8	98.5	96.2	83.8	26
27	27.2	8.0	3.6	0.5	98.1	90.2	81.9	55.6	99.9	99.1	97.7	88.9	27
28	31.8	10.3	4.9	0.8	98.8	93.0	86.5	63.6	>>	99.5	98.6	92.6	28
29	36.4	12.9	6.5	1.2	99.2	95.1	90.1	70.7		99.7	99.2	95.2	29
30	41.1	15.9	8.4	1.7	99.5	96.7	92.9	76.9		99.9	99.5	97.0	30
31	45.8	19.2	10.7	2.4	99.7	97.7	94.9	82.2		99.9	99.7	98.1	31
32	50.5	22.8	13.3	3.3	99.8	98.5	96.5	86.5		>>	99.9	98.9	32
33	55.0	26.7	16.1	4.4	99.9	99.0	97.6	89.9			99.9	99.3	33
34	59.4	30.7	19.3	5.7	99.9	99.4	98.4	92.6			>>	99.6	34
35	63.5	34.8	22.7	7.3	>>	99.6	98.9	94.6				99.8	35
36	67.5	39.1	26.3	9.2		99.7	99.3	96.2				99.9	36
37	71.1	43.4	30.2	11.3		99.8	99.5	97.3				99.9	37
38	74.5	47.6	34.1	13.7		99.9	99.7	98.1				>>	38
39	77.6	51.8	38.2	16.4		99.9	99.8	98.7					39
40	80.4	55.9	42.3	19.3		>>	99.9	99.1					40
41	83.0	59.9	46.4	22.4			99.9	99.4					41
42	85.2	63.7	50.4	25.7			>>	99.6					42
43	87.3	67.3	54.4	29.2				99.8					43
44	89.1	70.6	58.3	32.8				99.8					44
45	90.7	73.8	62.0	36.5				99.9					45
46	92.1	76.7	65.5	40.3				99.9					46
47	93.3	79.4	68.9	44.1				>>					47
48	94.3	81.9	72.0	47.9									48
49	95.2	84.1	75.0	51.6									49
50	96.0	86.1	77.7	55.3									50

--Phoenixshade 12:21, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I really don't see any point about a lengthy explanation. The word pistol can apply to generally any small handheld firearm. AllStarZ 05:31, 24 August 2006 (BST)

Whoa, never saw this before, that's pretty darn cool.--Karek^maps?! 05:40, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Stop changing the weapons to unrealistic ones!

This means stop putting pictures of glock 17s where there should be a revolver, or a pistol magazine where there should be moonclips!

THIS MEANS YOU LOOSERMASS

Well the Glock 36 has a has a 6-round capacity and would be realistic to the weapon in the game. Yak-38M, 14 May 2007 (GMT)

You're forgetting a really basic piece of firearm terminology: the game refers to clips, not magazines. There *is* a difference. I don't know of any semi-automatic pistols which use clips. Besides, which makes more sense - all of the pistols in Malton are Glock 36s, or they're all revolvers? That's like claiming that all the cars in your town are Mustangs. Until the creator of the game comes out and says otherwise, we have to go with what we're presented with, and right now we have "clips" as the descriptor. Therefore, let's keep it factual. intooblv 05:09, 22 May 2007 (BST)

You yourself are forgetting slang. Clip is also a slang term for magazine, so you could be using a glock or a 9mm used by police, my suggestion is that we use a picture of 3 separate guns because I doubt every pistol in malton is the exact same. Vexrog 15:55, 9 June 2009 (BST)

The Steyr Model 1912 uses a 8 round stripper clip and some models of the Mauser C96 use 6 round stripper clips so it could still be a semi-automatic pistol. But your right we will have to wait until the creator tells us. I also think the current picture of a Glock 18 should be removed and replace with a pic of a revolver or a semi-automatic pistol with internal box magazine loaded via stripper clips. Yak-38M, 1 June 2007 (GMT)

True, I did forget about the Mauser (the obvious one). However, I can't imagine there being *that* many Broomhandles and Steyr 1894s or 1912s lying around. Perhaps we could include photo examples of both (revolvers and clip-fed semi-autos) just to cover all the bases. I'll remove the offending images (again) in the meantime. intooblv 06:19, 3 June 2007 (BST)

If anyone cares, I just added a picture of a prototype Beretta Revolver Model 1, as well as a picture of a Remington Model 332 shotgun (2x barreled, break action). -- Mordac the Refuser 16:29, 16 July 2007 (BST)

Changed the current pistol image to a webley 6, in keeping with the idea Malton is set in England. --Elbowhead 16:18, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I have changed the revolver to a .357/.38 spl Ruger Security Six, and the shotgun to a typical double barrel side by side, and the flare gun to a typical sporting goods store one. I have updated the descriptions and explanations slightly, corrected some errors and removed extraneous sentences, while adding a bit of backstory. Since I am an IRL gun collector who owns many revolvers, shotguns, and rifles, I hope I can help clear up some of the misconceptions and misinformation out there! -- accordionhero - 02:41 eastern USA, Feb 24 2008 -

Pistol clip image

I can't upload 'cause mie intarweb is teh sux, so can someone upload one of the pictures of moon clips that are here? It doesn't fit the model we have pictured but it does work because it's a revolver clip and it holds six rounds (our current image is a chamber holding seven). Plus, we could always find an image of a Smith & Wesson Model 25. The page doesn't have one of a moon clip actually holding rounds, but as far as just the clip goes, it works well. AndToGo 06:58, 19 September 2007 (BST)

Um...anyone? AndToGo 02:15, 1 October 2007 (BST)

Those pictures aren't helpful.--Karek^maps?! 02:23, 1 October 2007 (BST)

Can you give any specific reason as to why? You could at least try to refute the points I made instead of being a jackarse.AndToGo 02:15, 3 October 2007 (BST)

Can't find them empty in Malton and most people wouldn't know what they are without the bullets anyway.--Karek^maps?! 05:47, 3 October 2007 (BST)

"Can't find them empty in Malton"

You can't find 7 round revolver chambers in Malton either.

"most people wouldn't know what they are without the bullets"

And? Most people don't know what a "clip" is either. Besides, the theory behind wikis is for people to find information they don't already know, so so much to the better. We don't need to compensate for retarded kids who couldn't find out that an image right under a header is probably being titled. AndToGo 04:25, 5 October 2007 (BST)

Moon clips are familiar to most shooters but are not very good iconography because they just don't get play in Hollywood. I kind of agree with the idea that the wiki is a learning tool but if you don't know how they work already its hard to understand the principle looking at the photos you link to. They look more like trenchy throwing stars than pistol clips. Folks just wont get it and be further confused. People understand whats going on when they see the bullets. I put up a compromise photo. Enjoy it or revert it as you wish. --Max Grivas ^{JG / M.F.T.} 06:22, 5 October 2007 (BST)

Question

When you run out of ammo with a shotgun or pistol, do you still have it in your inventory, and you just can't use it, or does it get discarded? --Kaysakado 22:32, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

The gun is in your inventory, the clip/shell is gone. You only need to search for a shotgun or pistol once, although there are differing opinions on strategic searching.--Karek^maps?! 23:30, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Also, when you find a gun, is it already loaded? --Kaysakado 23:31, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

It can be, most often it is. They can be partially loaded(with pretty much any amount under the max) or fully loaded, for more information on that it would probably be best to stop by Search Odds where the data on guns is usually kept up to date, including the likeliness of finding guns partially loaded with each amount of ammo possible.--Karek^maps?! 23:44, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

The number of shells/bullets alrady loaded in gun that is find is random. It's believed, and data prove it so far, that the chances are equal for all numbers from 0 to max --~~~~ [talk] 15:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

There are some interesting variances in the data I've seen, for example it seems 4 shot pistols are more common than the other types, even if it's only by 1-2%. Then again, you did compile most of the data.--Karek^maps?! 16:11, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

The data variance 1-2% is not statistically significent. I might get to make a good cute math write-up with hypothesises and 1st and 2nd type errors, but i'm generally too lazy for this --~~~~ [talk] 16:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Normally I would agree that it isn't but, in a case where the numbers are so small and specific as that I can't. Mostly because you're taking a fraction of the fraction(as it's in comparison to other ammo find rates instead of universal) so 1-2% is somewhat significant.--Karek^maps?! 16:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd have to look at the actual numbers to see but I suspect Duke is right. You'd need a LOT of data to say with any confidence that such minor variations are significant. Also, putting such a minor variance into the code just seems like a pointless pain in the ass; its much easier just to assign a random 1-6 shots to each pistol with equal probability. Even if the data indicates its a "signifigant" deviation, such things DO happen by chance. Occam's razor indicates to me that chance would be a more likely cause than intentional coding for such variation.  Swiers 19:10, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

That might make sense if the way the data shows the percents very didn't make pretty perfect sense itself.--Karek^maps?! 03:26, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Just an FYI

I know there's been plenty of people worrying over the factual real world accuracy of the guns/cartridges/etc but, it's not important. This is an informational page on a wiki about a game, certain things matter more than certain others, specifically what matters the most here is providing easy to read information that gives you the important in game facts of the weapons. If a consensus is reached through some sort of lexicon system or whatever as to this type of thing it's all fine and good but, it's not really important to the page at all, and is actually detrimental when it's overdone. So, just for future reference, please keep that in mind, the important information should both be easiest to read and most prominent on the page/section. The out of game flavor/debates over weapons types and such probably shouldn't be larger than the in game item description(and actually probably could get delegated to another page just for that type of debate and then simply summarized here and linked).--Karek^maps?! 05:46, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

About the gun picture's descriptions...

I lol'd when the shotgun and pistol had complicated descriptions, while all the flare gun had was "A typical flare gun." Why is this? --Kaysakado 12:29, 6 May 2008 (BST)