Developing Suggestions

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Developing Suggestions

This section is for general discussion of suggestions for the game Urban Dead.

It also includes the capacity to pitch suggestions for conversation and feedback.

Further Discussion

• Discussion concerning this page takes place here.
• Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general, including policies about it, takes place here.

Resources

• The Frequently Suggested List
• Suggestions Dos and Do Nots

How To Make a Discussion

Adding a New Discussion

To add a general discussion topic, please add a Tier 3 Header (===Example===) below, with your idea or proposal.

Adding a New Suggestion

• To add a new suggestion proposal, copy the code in the box below.
• Click here to begin editing. This is the same as clicking the [edit] link to the right of the Suggestions header.

• Paste the copied text above the other suggestions, right under the heading.
• Substitute the text in RED CAPITALS with the details of your suggestion.
• The process is illustrated in this image.

{{subst:DevelopingSuggestion
|time=~~~~
|name=SUGGESTION NAME
|type=TYPE HERE
|scope=SCOPE HERE
|description=DESCRIPTION HERE
}}

• Name - Give the suggestion a short but descriptive name.
• Type is the nature of the suggestion, such as a new class, skill change, balance change.
• Scope is who or what the suggestion affects. Typically survivors or zombies (or both), but occasionally Malton, the game interface or something else.
• Description should be a full explanation of your suggestion. Include information like flavor text, search odds, hit percentages, etc, as appropriate. Unless you are as yet unsure of the exact details behind the suggestion, try not to leave out anything important. Check your spelling and grammar.

Cycling Suggestions

• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past month may be cycled without notice.

Please add new discussions and suggestions to the top of the list

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Suggestions

Sticky Notes

Timestamp:--keepster33 21:57, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Type: New Items

Scope: Survivors

Description: I've felt that for the longest time that this particular zombie apocalypse is missing a certain human element. And for this reason I feel that we're overdue for sticky notes. The sticky notes could come in packs of 5 to 10 where upon use you see You stick a note to the wall "Pick up eggs, milk, and brains." (Uses 1 Ap of course) Upon seeing it you receive the message You see a note on the wall "Pick up eggs, milk, and brains." Any person in the building can tear one down per 1 Ap You rip a sticky note from the wall tearing it up and throwing it on the floor And only 5 notes could be up at a time (in order to reduce server stress.) You tear down the oldest note and replace it with your own stating "Already went to the store." It's similar to spray paint, but it has a different flavor. And yes they can stack on top of spray paint.

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Chainsaw

Timestamp: -Dezonus- (talk) 22:43, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Type: New Weapon

Scope: Survivors

Description: What Zombie apocalypse is complete without at least one lunatic running around with a chainsaw? Base damage per hit: 5. Base to hit %: 10% 15% (Raised due to loss of skill). Upgraded to hit %: Hand to hand combat + 15%, Body Building (Because you're stronger) +5%, new Lumberjack skill, +30%. Any other special abilities: Highly affective on Baricades. Attacking a fueled generator risks blowing it up, causing 10hp damage to yourself (May kill you). A chainsaw can be heard from a couple of blocks away. Encumbrance: 10%, making it heavier than all other weapons except toolbox and fuel can Type of ammo used and how much ammo comes per ammo item found: Fuel can, 10 encumbrance = 10 fuel = 10 ammo How does it reload and how many shots can it hold: Either: New adition to fuel can to use on generator or chainsaw, or, left clicking on chainsaw will reload/refuel it if fuel can is present in inventory. Where is it found: Mall hardware stores, Factories, Warehouses, Junkyards, occasionally parks Pros: Weapon is as effective as firearms Easy to reduce barricades if necessary Explosions will be useful for parachuters Noise could be used to lure Zombies into a trap Great for RP purposes Cons: Heavy Carrying much spare ammo is not possible, as it is 10% encumbrance per can Noise can draw unwanted attention Ammo is a bit harder to find than firearm ammo Low accuracy, being a max of 35%

Discussion (Chainsaw)

Other than this being a dupetacular dupe, the sound is text spam, it is a firearm - it needs refuelling and that's the only distinction in Urban Dead - and I'm pretty sure it would be by far the most powerful weapon when it gets to 50% to hit, deals more damage than a pistol and has far better fuel capacity.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:54, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Also I'm seriously not keen on further weapon-specific skills. Knife and axe I can forgive because they're quite simple objects and are relatively everyday in their use, picking up a degree of proficiency in them through usage is very grokkable. Suddenly becoming a lumberjack (and having buttered scones for tea) in a quarantined city makes little to no sense. 22:57, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Ditch the skill and the noise. Even if it was perfect, and had Chuck Norris and Jesus Christ come down from on high in front of all the wiki-ers to give a joint seal of awesomeness I doubt it won't be bogged down by spam by the time it gets out of suggestion.-Jon Aiken _{RSZ !} 02:20, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Revision 1: lost Skill and noise, raised base accuracy to 15%, but max is now only 25%. Please comment below this message -Dezonus- ^(talk) 12:46, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Not overpowered, good usage for fuel, etc. I like it. Personally, I think flavour weapons generally should be weaker than normal, because their main significance arsies from their presence as flavour. No one uses a cricket bat or a beer bottle except to make a point. -Jon Aiken _{RSZ !} 17:53, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, no to having it in factories and hardware stores. I don't want my chances of finding a genny diminished. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 17:55, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Warehouses and Parks would both be sensible, and also offer nothing to create the DSR issue. -- Spiderzed▋ 17:58, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

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Speakerphone

Timestamp: Pardus 14:43, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Type: Communication

Scope: Survivors, Mobile Phones

Description: Idea: A Survivor may setup up a mobile phone in his safehouse and be able to call it or any other phone setup in the same location if the local tower is active and the building is powered. You may target and break the phones to avoid spam. Workable?

Discussion (Speakerphone)

So this is like a private radio channel, right? I set up a phone in a location, and then I can send messages to that phone from one I'm carrying, and they're seen by anyone in that room? I like the idea of it, I think. I'm on the positive side of unsure. Convince me with cold hard numbers and mechanics. 14:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

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Suggestions to help encourage Survivor cooperation

Timestamp: ~ 21:53, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Type: Multiple

Scope: Survivors

Description:Since my Shout suggestion hasn't gone over very well (understandably) I'm trying to piece together some other ideas that I hope will encourage more survivor cooperation. I don't mean the kind of cooperation that broods groups of people to amass in a single location and defend that and nothing but that location. I'd like to see changes to the game that lead survivors to get out of their safehouse, do something to help contribute to their society. Shout 2.0 Upload NecroNet Scan Possibly more to come Shout 2.0 Same as Shout except that zombies can hear the shouting when at the same location. Shouts can also be heard from adjacent buildings. Upload NecroNet Scan This new skill would allow players with NecroNet Access to upload their maps to the NecroNet network. These scans would be available to other powered NecroTech buildings by other players with NecroNet Access. The uploaded scan would be available only to NT buildings within 5 blocks of the location. There would be an additional button added after NecroNet is accessed Upload NecroNet Scan. Players with NecroNet Access at other NT buildings would get a notification similar to a cell phone message: A new NecroNet scan was uploaded from the The Sugg Building (3 hours and 5 minutes ago) A new NecroNet scan was uploaded from the The Latrobe Building (1 hour and 33 minutes ago)

Discussion (Suggestions to help encourage Survivor cooperation)

I like the Necronet one. As far as the shout one, is this like survivor feeding groan and is outside only, or would it work inside as well? -MHSstaff 21:58, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

The Necronet one is a Dupe ;) --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:00, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Very funny. I actually did some research using the NecroWatch page before suggesting. Think of it as an in-game NecroWatch...sorta. ~ 22:12, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

But... Caleb Usher created Necrowatch + Caleb Usher isn't in-game == NO Necrowatch in-game. :( I am disillusioned. Honestly though, how many NTs are in a five block radius of each other (excluding the freak three in Rhodenbank)?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 15:50, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Glancing at the map, groups of 2+ (within 5 blocks) are pretty common. Truly isolated NTs are somewhat rare. -MHSstaff 15:55, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

The DSS Map is a great way of seeing NT proximities. Just click on any NT building on the map and you'll likely find another one in its vicinity. ~ 21:03, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

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Finally, a simple headshot nerf that benefits everyone who's dead

Timestamp: 21:13, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Type: Change to headshot functionality

Scope: All zombies

Description: Basically, Headshot would work as normal initially - adding 5 AP to the stand up cost. However, with each AP tick that the affected zombie gains, this 5 AP penalty is reduced by 1, so that in one hour, the additional cost it 3 AP, and by two-and-a-half hours, it's negated entirely. What would this do? It'd mean that casual players who log in once or twice a day will be much less likely to waste 5 AP just to be able to play for the day. It'd also mean that in sieges, ?rise is still taking the same penalty to work as it does now. In a nutshell, it helps slower, more casual or newer players without harming real-time combat or sieges in any real way. Still gives headshot a lot of use, as it will still slow zombies down - the 5 AP now becomes a real-time bonus, where the attacking survivor can spend 5 AP now and gain it back in those 2 1/2 hours that the zombie player must wait to ignore the headshot; and if they chose to stand earlier, they still suffer the AP penalty. The AP tick was chosen as it's regular and simple, and flavoursome - as the zombie recoups its energies, it also shakes off the pain and shock of the injury.

Discussion (Finally, a simple headshot nerf that benefits everyone who's dead)

I can't help but feel this encourages players to not play the game.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature3 21:32, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

The same way having less AP does? You're just trading time before standing for time after, really. 21:34, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

But time when you're invincible is undoubtedly better.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature3 21:36, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

The trade-off being delayed play and the inability to ?rise with it. 21:41, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Exactly, the positive encourages people to have "delayed play" - to sit there not playing the game, when we should be encouraging more people to play the game.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature3 21:42, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I fail to see how playing slightly later is any worse than not being able to play as much, though. 21:47, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Most people log on once a day, especially the "casual players" you claim to be championing. This would take a whole day out of their play cycle, by encouraging them not to log on just after you've been headshot.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature3 21:51, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

No it wouldn't. If they've taken a headshot right before logging in, it's no different to how it is now if they stand up right away. For that kind of player, it's only upside or no change. 22:04, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

You seem to have misunderstood what I'm trying to say.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature3 22:48, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Apparently so. You said it'd take a whole day out of their play cycle - but no one would ever waste 50AP to save 5AP, those people would simply just play at that time normally and take the full 5AP headshot penalty rather than not play at all for that day. 20:17, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

To get around the one-a-day casual player getting headshot right before they login, maybe have it not take affect if a headshot player's AP = 50?-MHSstaff 01:56, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

I actually like it. I might lengthen the time a bit (one off per hour), but it seems reasonable to me. —Aichon— 22:13, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Improved Relentless, I like it. User:Whitehouse 01:11, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

I don't like it, headshot is pathetic already given that it's supposedly the one way to put a zombie down for good.--Mallrat ^{TSI TKS CTD} 03:25, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

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Self Harm mk 2

Timestamp: 21:13, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Type: New skill

Scope: Mostly death cultists

Description: Text is copied from an old suggestion of mine, changes marked in red. There's been a few suggestions that would aid death culting and parachuting in general, such as self-infecting or gunshot suicides, but mostly it's an issue of power, being shot down due to the idea of easier parachuting circumventing barricades, and therefore saving huge amounts of AP. Well, in order to circumvent the AP imbalance, how about allowing a character to purchase a new Civilian skill, Self Harm, for the usual 100xp. This allows them to attack themselves with their bare hands, dealing an automatic 1 damage for 1 AP; or if armed with a knife, for 2 damage for 1 AP with a 75% success rate. That way, without an infection, a new-revived cultist with a knife can spend around 18-20 AP trying to kill themselves, or 30 AP without a knife - the former of which is, admittedly, a saving on infection - the crucial difference being that an infected parachutist can spend the AP barricading for a pinata, searching for items, or attacking characters or generators, whilst a self-harming character spends the AP with the sole aim of reducing their health. Unarmed attacks are incredibly AP-inefficient, but are also very reliable if in a tight patch. This would be a much weaker way of doing it, but is more reliable in that it can't be FAKed away. The imperfect accuracy balances out the knife's higher damage, and flavour-wise can be explained by using You attempt to slash yourself with your knife, but can't bring yourself to do it. as the miss text. Successful hit text would be You slash yourself with your knife for 2 damage. Unarmed, the automatic hit would produce Clawing at yourself in agitation, you injure yourself for 1 damage. Obviously this would give no experience to the player using it.

Discussion (Self Harm mk 2)

Would the effect stack with a standard infection? -Jon Aiken _{RSZ !} 22:50, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I see no reason why not, adding further exemptions to infection seems unintuitive to me. 20:20, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Meh, something in the flavour of "learning to hurt yourself" seems too wrong to me. I think the most logical thing is what the game implements already: jumping off windows. Of course, it helps none in parachuting... ~m ^T! 00:50, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

You could also argue that "learning to be more rotted" or "learning to get hired" also make little sense - skills seem more like the by-product of experiencing the events that gave you XP rather than consciously sitting down and teaching yourself something. 20:20, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Hasn't this like.. Been suggested several time? --Zamins 20:27, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

I do believe the "mk 2" may key you into that one. Also the direct admission that I ran a previous version through DS too. 22:33, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

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Rifle

Timestamp: Jon Aiken RSZ ! 04:28, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Type: Weapon & Skill, and Skill set

Scope: Survivors

Description: Creates a weapon "Rifle", and an ammo item "Bullet", each capable of being found in fort armouries, gun stores, and polices stations. Rifles take up 5% encumbrance. Each round takes up 1% encumbrance. Rifles are unwieldy at close ranges, and start with a base accuracy of 2.5%. Adds similar skill tree with other firearms. Basic Firearms Training adds 7.5%, Basic Rifle Training adds an additional 10%, and Advanced Rifle Training adds a further 10%. Rifles deal 5 damage (4 with flesh rot or a flak jacket), and hold up to five rounds. Rounds are found and loaded individually. If a character has basic rifle training and uses binoculars in a cardinal direction (only N, S, E, or W) in a tall building, a button appears that reads "steady rifle". When clicked, the one AP is used, the six blocks not adjacent to the character disappear, and the attack menu only lists characters outside on those three blocks (no x-ray vision). Should there be zombies on multiple blocks, they are listed as "a zombie (block name)". You cannot recognize zombie contacts. Shots have 30% to hit (45% with advanced rifle training), and deal 5 damage (4 damage with flak jacket or flesh rot). After steadying the rifle, there appears an action "pack-up rifle", which takes no AP, and returns the character to their state prior to steadying their rifle, except that the blocks visible from the binoculars are not displayed. If the character uses any action other than attacking (reload, search), the binoculars must be re-used, and the rifle re-steadied. Should there be no individuals, flavour text describes why you did not steady your rifle, and 1AP is used. If you attempt to steady your rifle while not looking in a cardinal direction, flavour text describes why you did not steady your rifle, and 1AP is used. In neither case does the binocular display of the 9 blocks disappear. Should your shot land true, their HP is not displayed. Headshot only occurs only 20% of all zombie kills. Actions: Flavour Text: Steadying your rifle: Glancing at targets below, you steady your aim and your breathing as you look through the sights. You pull the rifle to your shoulder and take aim at those who walk the streets below. Steadying your weapon on a window ledge, you lay down and sight in your rifle. Aiming your rifle at the adjacent blocks, you steady yourself in anticipation of the recoil. You steady your rifle on the edge of your sniper hide, prepared to kill those who move below. Packing up your rifle: You pick up your rifle and return back to the depths of the building. You sling your weapon over your shoulder as you walk away from your makeshift nest. You grab your rifle and leave your hide, glancing once more over the streets as you walk away. You grab your weapon and binoculars and climb back down the roof access hatch. You take the binoculars and your rifle with you as you descend the building's stairwell. Trying to Steady your rifle when no one is there: You lay down, prepared to fire, when you realize that the streets are empty. You look down the sights of the rifle, but are unable to find any targets below. Pulling the rifle to your shoulder, you notice no signs of activity on the adjacent blocks. Looking up and down the streets through the rifle's sight, you fail to see anything of worth to shoot at. As you steady your rifle on a broken window's ledge, no sounds of life or death emanate from the adjacent blocks. Trying to Steady your rifle when not facing a cardinal direction: You go to prepare your weapon, but your targets are outside of your range. Steadying your weapon, you realise you cannot hit them at this range. You spy an individual, but you can barely see them, let alone hit them from here. Despite your training, you do not feel comfortable in your skills to shoot at such a range. You lay down to take your shot, but you lose sight of your target at this range. Shooting (hit): You squeeze off a shot. Your target shudders visibly as it is struck. You exhale and pull the trigger. The target pirouettes in place from the impact. The rifle's report rings in your ears. Through your sights, you see your target's blood splatter across the pavement. The recoil kicks into your shoulder. Your target reacts visibly as your round hits home. You absorb the shock of the rifle's recoil. Your target cries out loudly as they are struck by the bullet. Shooting (miss): The rifle's recoil drills your shoulder. You hear a pinging as your round strikes near your target. You pull the trigger all the way back. The round sails harmlessly over the targets head. The weapon quivers as the bullet exits the muzzle. Your target doesn't react, a miss. You fire your weapon. The bullet whizzes harmlessly past your target. The rifle jolts backwards. The target is unaffected and uninjured by your shot. Being shot at (hit): Pain explodes throughout your body, as a report echoes from a nearby building. You have been shot by a sniper for 5 damage. Blood splatters on the pavement; it is your own. You have been shot by a sniper for 5 damage. You twitch slightly, as the bullet enters and exits your body. You have been shot by a sniper for 5 damage. Being shot at (hit, flack jacket/rotten flesh): The dampened impact of a sniper's bullet hits chest. You have been shot by a sniper for 5 damage. Your (flak jacket/rotten flesh) absorbs 1 point of damage. A bullet hits you in the middle of your torso, as a report echoes from a nearby building. You have been shot by a sniper for 5 damage. Your (flak jacket/rotten flesh) absorbs 1 point of damage. A bullet strikes you squarely in the chest with a dull thud. You have been shot by a sniper for 5 damage. Your (flak jacket/rotten flesh) absorb 1 point of damage. Being shot at (miss): A bullet whizzes by your head, striking the ground behind you. Somewhere, a sniper is gunning for you. A bullet ricochets on the ground nearby. Somewhere, a sniper is gunning for you. Reloading: You load the bullet into your weapon with a satisfying clack. The bullet slides into rifle with hardly a sound. The bullet disappears into the chamber of the weapon. The bullet slides smoothly into the rifle. The bullet enters the weapon with a small click. Searches: Search Percentages (slashes '/' denote bargain hunting rates): Rifle: Police Department: 1%; Gun Stores: 2%/3%; Fort Armouries: 5%, Rifle Bullet: Police Station: 3%; Gun Stores: 4%/6%; Fort Armouries: 7% Flavour Text: Rifle: Police Department: Searching through the station, you locate a large, unscoped rifle. As you look through the gun lockers, you find a rifle that has been left behind. You look throughout the department and manage to locate a rifle. Gun Store: You grab one of the hunting rifles left on the display counter. You retrieve one of the hunting rifles mounted on the wall of the store. Looking behind the counter, you discover a rifle hidden under the cash register. Fort Armouries: Searching through the armoury, you find a single-shot rifle. You rifle through the armoury, and find exactly that. As you search the armoury, you discover a rifle in the corner. Bullet: Police Department: Searching through the drawers of the station's desks, you discover an unused rifle bullet. As your search through the department, you notice a rifle bullet in the corner of one of the rooms. Running through the station, you step on, and nearly fall because of, an unused rifle bullet. Gun Store: Searching through the discarded rifle ammo cases, you discover one with a bullet left in it. As you search, a small glint catches your eye. An unused bullet glimmers in the light. Searching throughout the store, you find a rifle bullet behind one of the discarded ammo boxes. Fort Armouries: Among the numerous spent casings, you noticed one of them has not been used. You find an unused rifle round amongst the clutter of the armoury. Searching through the armoury, you find a bullet in one of the empty weapon lockers. I realise that numerous people have advocated for a rifle in the game, and numerous more have advocated for it's absence. I personally believe that the lack of a rifle is not for the better, there are numerous balance issues revolving around the way to handle it. The damage per AP with maximum training at close range is 1.5HP. With your target having a flak jacket, that ends up at 1.2HP per AP. When sniping and max training, the rate improves to 50% to hit, increasing damage/AP inflicted without a flak jacket to 2.5HP. Halve everything if you have to load the rounds, plus the two AP to use your binoculars and steady your rifle. So with ideal conditions and a full rifle, that ends up being about 1.79 damage per HP, AT BEST. If you have to load the rounds, 1.04dmg/AP. Ideal conditions for a fully loaded shotgun, 6.5dmg/AP, and 3.25dmg/AP if you have to load the shells, and 2.6 if a flak jacket or rotten flesh is involved. Pistols: 3.25d/AP, 2.78d/AP if you have to reload, and 2.22 with relevant protection added. So the ideal Damage per Action point for the rifle's max accuracy, with all bullets loaded, is only higher than the pistol with equivalent training, a flak jacket and having to reload it. So I hope the nerfing of the rifle is sufficient to pass community review. --Jon Aiken RSZ !

Discussion (Rifle)

• I don't see anything about zombies (or players, for that matter), being able to tell where the shot came from. This is a ranged shot, it could come from a number of directions and a number of squares away. I suggest modifying it so that the target and possibly players in neighboring squares get an idea where the shot came from, kind of as if it were a flare.

Despite it being a ranged shot, you can only attack blocks right next to your building, and as a matter of fact, not even outside your building. Plus, gun reports would probably result in more dupes than this would get anyway. -Jon Aiken _{RSZ !} 17:29, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Also, with the numerous buildings about the report would echo from everywhere, bouncing off buildings hither and thither, if any implementation it would either be in all three target squares, or merely the surrounding eight squares, maybe have a different message if you are outside on the same block as the sniper. -Jon Aiken _{RSZ !} 17:35, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

• You hear a rifle report echo throughout the streets
• You hear a rifle report from one of the top floors of the building

• It's good that you can't recognize zombie contacts, but I also find it questionable whether you should be able to identify survivor contacts, and no matter what your Diagnosis ability should be disabled... no reading HPs, spotting infections or whatever when picking targets in remote squares.

I agree, with a single coin flip scenario, what about survivors with scent fear? The asterisk just shows that they are injured, nothing more. -Jon Aiken _{RSZ !} 17:29, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Also, I think survivor contacts should be recognisable, as you can see their name from the map, and from using your binoculars, and a well dressed person stands out more than if they were one of the many shambling rotting corpses. What you don't know who they are? Well, You can't see their description, but if you were able to go 'the one with the top hat, or the one with the overcoat' in real life, shouldn't you be able to choose who you shoot? -Jon Aiken _{RSZ !} 18:10, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Those are just a couple of issues I see with this so far. I didn't bother reading it closely enough to see how dangerous this weapon is yet, maybe I will later, but not if it gets shot down first. Too tired. Crashing. G'night. --Necrofeelinya 06:55, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback! -Jon Aiken _{RSZ !} 17:29, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Why would you want to shoot zombies outside? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 09:36, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I can guarantee that there will be people, plus some people may use this to slowly gain XP. -Jon Aiken _{RSZ !} 17:29, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I meant from a tactical sense. Its self defeating to kill zombies outside. Plus it adds confusion. How do you know that the zombie you're aiming at isn't at a Revive Point? What's to stop people killing me at a revive point safe in the knowledge I can't identify them? Also in terms of levelling no one would use this to level. Basic accuracy of 2.5%? Its useless without basic firearms training, at which point its much easier to level with pistol training.--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 17:15, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

1) Tactical sense? First off if a zed busts down your 'cades with half its HP, that's better than a healthy (?) corpse. A couple of shots can allow you to put the hurt on an individual from relative safety. Just like in war, they must asses where snipers are, and act accordingly. Good for PKers, or your pro-survivors. As an actual technique to fight against the undead, it holds a small niche there, as well. The major way for survivors to win against the zed is to do one thing: make them want to move. You can't make them move, or move them yourself, but rather put them in a circumstance where they are unwilling to stay. After they chew up a town, they move on. If they're overwhelmed, they move on. If they aren't having fun, they move on. If you got a few ferals constantly being sniped, they may find it annoying and not fun, and move on. Survivors win.

2) How do you know the zombie you aim at isn't in a rev point? Use the wiki. And if long-range cow tipping is that bad of a problem, move to a different RP. Forcing you to move in just that demonstrates the tactical sense a sniper can have. Snipers can only attack squares directly adjacent to their building and only from tall ones at that; just don't stand in an RP next to a tall building.

3) Leveling up? No one uses pistols w/o basic firearms training. If you complain that it's too little, I'd like to think I could hit a zombie that's just standing there with a pistol and no firearms training, but I can't. I said I'd be willing tweak the numbers if needed, so what do you suggest? And as for sniping, the action doesn't become available until you purchase 'Basic Rifle Training', child skill of basic firearms. It's pretty much supposed to be weaker than a shotgun or pistol, in damage and reloading respectively, but gain that advantage of being able to attack one square adjacent, if (and only if) you have basic/adv. rifle training, a pair of binocs, and are in a tall building.

Conclusion) The idea is that it doesn't fit the niche as a pistol or shotgun clone, and gives an ability that neither firearms possess. With some values tweaking it can be analogous in certain ways, but not identical. It can serve a purpose as an instrument of opportunity, or XP gathering. It is on par with other firearms, and can create a psychological impact, potentially to where zeds are ware of standing near tall buildings. It behaves believably, is not overpowered (zed's can just stand up/the accuracy and damage), requires AP (binocs and rifle steadying), helps PKers as well, is not a stopgap, and adds something that people may be looking for. Just saying. I just don't know how to pitch this without getting spammed/duped for having the word 'rifle' in it. --Jon Aiken _{RSZ !} 06:10, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the replies. Firstly, if i'ma hostile zombie being sniped from a building next door, my natural reaction would be to move to that building. Not really the kind of option you'd want if you're trying to stop zombies. Secondly, its a lot better to spend your AP on cades then to allow half injured zombies inside. These skills would only reinforce that shooting zombies outside is a good thing. (Which it really isn't comparing ap usage and remembering digestion) Thirdly "Use the wiki" and "Don't stand there" aren't sensible justifications for the griefing of revive points. Fourthly, my levelling explanation meant that you wouldn't try levelling using the rifle tree, it would me much more efficient to use the pistol skill tree. Also, you haven't explained what you see if there is a survivor at their block, or how you would get around yons ammo dilution question directly below. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 14:59, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Your welcome, as I wish to get an opinion that I could make someone agreeable, especially someone who knows the community, and potentially the rest follows, as well. Firstly, granted that if your next to a lone tall building. But say you're at club peerless in Spicer Hills. Four tall buildings surround that one location, and you'd have to clear out all of them to be sure. Secondly, in terms of killing/injuring zombies, digestion is granted, but wouldn't most be scraps? In that vein, attacking cades is pointless: 5 ap to tear down, 1 o 2 to build. Plus you can snipe people too, who digest things a little less easily. Thirdly, point capitulated. You were shot by a sniper for 5 damage. Your rotten flesh absorbs 1 damage But only if they hit you. Fourthly, possibly not first, but like I said: tweak the values and make it analoguous to the other firearms. Also, you see their name as a normal survivor. Yon's note cannot be avoided, unfortunately the buffing and/or nerfing of the weapon cannot be in the search percentages, but rather in the weapon itself. If the buff of the weapon as is was multiplied by a billion, zeds would still just stand up, or move away from/move to the tall buildings. If the nerf is multiplied by a billion, I'd gather it'd be -2 AP for survivors using current firearms, otherwise you have all the huge XP people buying it anyways. Only the newbs would be affected, as yon said. However, up until the point of specialisation (Basic {insert gun} training), have the percentages be equal. Tweak the reload and the damage to make it somewhere between a pistol and a shotgun. Whatever you do the game would be affected. But whenever you throw a turtle into a forest it's going to affect the entire environment in some way eventually. It's inevitable, but what has been mentioned even in macro-macroscopic scale, seems not to have too much of an impact on balance, or life/death strength to completely break the scales. -Jon Aiken _{RSZ !} 16:09, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Read this.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature3 10:11, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Duly noted Yon, I didn't want this to start this with too much accuracy/damage or have ammo in magazines, and have people bitch about how it's too strong, but if you tweak the firearm percentages to match the base (no skill) and tier 1 (basic firearms) it would just be similar to other firearms. There are a few things I'd be willing to toy with: if you upgrade the damage to 10 it'd just be essentially a five-round shotgun with separate ammo (why bother except for the sniping ability?), play with the percentages as before (though a rifle inside a building with no/little training is unwieldy to use compared to a pistol/shotgun), perhaps have sniping rounds do half the damage (unrealistic, but then again, so are zombies), add a magazine to make it like a sniping pistol (again, why bother except for the sniping ability?) or any myriad of ideas you come up with. It just seems strange to me that there are absolutely no rifles in the city. -Jon Aiken _{RSZ !} 17:29, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

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Dr Strangesuggestion, or, how I learnt to love the headshot

Timestamp: User:Yonnua Koponen/signature3 23:18, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Type: Headshot nerf

Scope: Brain rot, Headshot

Description: There once was a man with Brain Rot, Who suffered a terrible head shot, It hurt twice as much, The man was a putz, But the relief on newbies was a lot. Basically, Headshot would deal 3AP as standard, and 5AP if the target had brainrot. Flavour: Less structure in the head: More damage Benefits: Newbies take less AP damage, older players unaffected. Tactical: Zombies need to pick if they want guns or needles to be a more effective means of killing them. Discuss.

Discussion (Dr Strangesuggestion, or, how I learnt to love the headshot)

I like it, especially since it benefits newbies. User:Whitehouse 23:29, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
As Whitehouse. -Jon Aiken _{RSZ !} 04:28, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Most zombies don't even buy brain rot... I know I don't on my zombie alt. Incase I wanna death cultist and stuff. Change it to ankle grab and add a little more AP on it and I like it. --Zamins 06:53, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Approximately 9% of players have brain rot. Ankle grab would make no sense tactically.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature3 10:09, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

So 91% gets a boost regardless whether they are level 1 or level 41? No. Why on earth discourage brainrot like this? --Thadeous Oakley 10:19, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Brainrot stays exactly as it is now. It's just that newbies get a boost, as they should.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature3 10:52, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

From what I can tell, based on the stats page, approximately (and this is just a rough approximation) 34% of max level players have Brain Rot. More if we count those zombies that stop at level 21 or 22 and go no further with their levels. And that includes survivor characters as well, so you can roughly double that to get an idea of how many max level zombies have Brain Rot. Anyway, you shouldn't retroactively punish players (and it would be a punishment, since they would be unable to take the other choice) for a decision they made previously which they are unable to reverse now. Simple as that. That said, if there were a new city, I think that this might be a great idea. It'd certainly make sieges much more interesting, I should think.—Aichon— 16:12, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Uh, don't you need the brain rot skill to be the max level? And it wouldn't make sieges more interesting, it would just speed up what would normally happen. Zombies eventually win, survivors eventually come back after a few days. No strategy invovled. --Zamins 16:54, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I considered max level to be people that stop at levels 43, 44, or 45. 43 is the max level for anyone that doesn't grab Brain Rot. For anyone that grabs Brain Rot, then either 44 or 45 is their max level. I took all of that into consideration with my calculations. As for sieges, I didn't say that it would switch the way things are now in terms of who wins. I said it would make them more interesting. To me, making survivors more capable of ousting zombies with syringes without the need for a lit NT is more interesting. And as the recent Blackmore Battle showed, there is strategy involved, and it would've made a difference there. —Aichon— 22:08, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Aichon. That said, couldn't you just scale headshot so that it does 1AP for a Level 1 zombie, 2AP for Level 2... and so on up to 5AP for Level 5+, and get a similar effect for new zombies? -MHSstaff 18:50, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Sure, that would work.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature3 18:56, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

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Lighthouse

Timestamp: Necrofeelinya 06:10, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Type: New Building

Scope: Everybody, the map

Description: I'm putting forward this suggestion for a couple of reasons. First, the hardcore city design I've been rarely working on as a hobby is scheduled for completion some time around February of 2073. I thought certain features of it might be worth introducing in case other, speedier individuals wanted to make use of them in their own map designs, if such designs exist, and to give people an opportunity to encourage Kevan to use it in any future city plans he may have if such plans come about before the next 60+ years have passed. I happen to like this idea, and would like to see it included in a future city if any plans happen to be in the works for another "hardcore" map. Second, though clearly the basic idea is pretty well hacked out here, I figured I could use some slight assistance tweaking it in terms of external messages, suggestions about the range at which such messages are visible, whether it's even possible to install two gennies in a building and if not what sort of substitute might be made, and what items should be available in a lighthouse, as well as suggestions of % chance of finding each of them. As with my previous suggestion, buffnerfbuffnerfbuffnerfbuffnerfbuffnerf, and references to ritual animal slaughter are also welcome. Lighthouse Lighthouse [0,0] beach field field beach style="width:100px; height:80px; Template:Lighthouse"|Lighthouse road beach field field Basic Info: Template:Info Lighthouse A Lighthouse is tall structure with a powerful light at the top, designed to warn ships at sea of coastal dangers. It has little value as a Tactical Resource Point, but is unique in another fashion. When a player installs a generator in a lighthouse, it functions as normal... the building becomes lit, but the signal light does not turn on. Players have the option of installing a second generator to turn on the signal light, in which case the signal light becomes visible to all players on the map, and gives a vague indication of distance and a precise direction to the lighthouse. A lighthouse has no specific interior description, other than to say "You are standing in a lighthouse", but is subject to Ruin and Decay, along with the accompanying interior and exterior descriptions. When the main light is powered by a second generator the following descriptions are added to all players' screens, depending upon distance from the lighthouse and with (direction) being the most direct route to the lighthouse out of a choice of the 8 possible movement directions on the mini-map: 1-10 squares away: "Nearby to the (direction) you see the bright beacon of a lighthouse" 11-25 squares away: "To the (direction) you can make out a lighthouse signal" 26-50 squares away: "A light appears off in the distance to the (direction)" 51-75 squares away: "Far to the (direction) you can see a light shining" 76-99 squares away: "To the (direction) you can barely detect a light flickering very far away" If fog is implemented in-game again, the lighthouse will still be visible when powered, but only to a limited degree. Then the following messages will be seen by players: 1-5 squares away: "To the (direction) a bright light cuts through the fog" 6-15 squares away: "A light can be seen signaling through the fog to the (direction)" From 16 or more squares away the lighthouse cannot be seen through fog, and the light does not allow players to better see their surroundings, it only indicates the direction of the lighthouse. Both generators must be fueled for the signal light to work, if either one runs out of fuel, the signal light goes out. Items found in lighthouses are: newspaper flare gun radio

Discussion (Lighthouse)

Question: Where would this lighthouse be?--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature3 11:44, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

I love it! Malton basing it is a problem. But its still a fantastic idea. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:07, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

I like it a lot as well. You could do something similar with stadiums and stadium lights to make the general concept a little more Malton-friendly. Lighted stadiums are easy to see from a distance. -MHSstaff 16:47, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

The idea isn't meant to be implemented in any current map, it's for any future city Kevan may be considering if he plans to ever create another. Being a lighthouse, it would require coastal areas, and no current city has those. For Malton, a similar idea with lighted stadiums isn't a bad concept, but since I don't play Malton I don't really think about Malton mods much. It's also in case anyone else is designing a map proposal, just as I very, very slowly am, and might want to incorporate it. Apart from that, I was just hoping for a few refinement suggestions. If this suggestion went to Peer Review, it would just basically be saying "Hey Kevan, we like this idea and would like to see it in some form, somehow". He could figure out what he wanted to do with it, if anything, himself.--Necrofeelinya 08:18, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Can I at least get an answer as to whether it's possible to install 2 gennies in a building at the same time? Anyone?--Necrofeelinya 06:10, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

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Suggestions up for voting

XP for Feeding

Moved to Suggestion talk:20101105 All Zombies Feed on Corpses; Feeding Grants 1 XP --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 18:15, 5 November 2010 (UTC)