UDWiki:Open Discussion/Does Griefing Exist?
Does Griefing exist?
Some people don't think there really is such a thing as griefing. It is all part of how someone plays the game. This page is merely an explanation of the "griefer" viewpoint regarding the in-game role-playing aspects.
GKers
A person or group like the degenerates smash generators over and over. They gain no benefit from this but they do make life harder for everyone else until a new one is set up.
Teksura:"In my experience with people who smash generators, they mostly seem to be fanatical people who simply wish to turn off that big flashing neon sigh that says 'Food inside' that is a generator. Some believe that the zombies will not come if there was no generator. In the minds of these people, they are saving peoples lives." --TeksuraTalk 08:44, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Jonathan:"This is a very poor excuse. Generator is needed for many in-game life-saving options, the main one being providing a network of communication to warn other outposts of break-ins. They are also destroying other people lives. This excuse is so blatantly forged that pretending it to be valid is already griefing." --Jonathan 16:40, 16 December 2006 (BST)
Simon Hollows Also, it's quite common that in a large area, messengers will go around, tagging buildings with whether they should have generators up or not, so that "decoy" buildings can be activated. Destroying generators only harms survivors, unless they are using the decoy strategy.
Headshot
Headshot has its reasons as well. That 5 AP you take from that zombie is 5 AP that the zombie will not be able to use against another person or maybe even you!
Teia:"I have been headshot many times, I can not count how many harmans escaped my wrath because I was a few AP short of finishing the job. The only thing that truly ends a horde attack is when the horde is out of AP. Because a Harman headshot, I ran out sooner." --Teksura 04:32, 17 May 2006 (BST)
Jonathan:"This is a game-play complain with no role-play reason. Moreover, you are considering griefing something which is a part of the basic concept of the game: this game is about human versus zombies - the Headshot skill is merely part of the arsenal conceived by the author which is available to survivors to stop or slow down zombies. According to your flawed logic, the implementation of weapons or other ways to attack zombies should be considered griefing as well - after all when you are dead you need to waste 10/1 AP in order to keep playing." --Jonathan 16:40, 16 December 2006 (BST)
PKers
Even the PKing Griefers have a reason for PKing the same person over and over.
Dreak:"A PKer could be nothing more then someone who is frantic and sees others as a threat for no good reason. A PKer who sees the same person over and over may become paranoid that this person is following them and lash out at the "stalker" for fear that the person may attack them. Remember, crazy people will do things that we don't understand because it makes sense to them." --Teksura 04:32, 17 May 2006 (BST)
Simon Hollows: However, this is mostly not the case. I have never died by zombie attack-always by a PK'er, while resting in a safehouse, usually alone. PK'ing is done simply for fun most of the time, or to clear out the humans in an area so that zombies can break inside without worrying about re-barricades. If not for those two reasons, then simply for EXP, which could be attained in other ways. Case in point-The Maine Building, an NT building near Fort Creedy was plagued by a PK'er who only did so for 'fun', or so he claimed, and also attacked generators, to prevent revive syringe manufacture.
Billy Club Thorton: There are many reasons to PK, beyond simple entertainment or gathering exp. For example, some characters choose to be PKers because of an perceived imbalance between survivors and zombies. Others consider it as part of the Roleplaying they engage in. Still others will only PK players whom they perceive as incompetent, such as survivors sleeping outside. Many PKers do it simply for fun, or as an alternative to the zombie/survivor classes. Regardless of the reasons, PKing is not griefing because although the action hurts other players, it benefits the PKer because of they gain experience and fulfill whatever role they see themselves playing in Malton.
--Rbrx 22:10, 13 January 2008 (UTC) in my experience, pking is evolving, from painful to annoying. it started off that pkers would come into buildings, do as much damage as they could, then run away into the anonimus crowds. now however, my message screen is filled with reports of being shot repeatedly, then being brought back to full hp, over and over again.
Olikunmissile1: I used to PK, the reason why? I was bored, making peoples lives a living hell is so very satisfying, and i used to hunt 2 people, Notpidgeon and Shredder Rhodes, want to know why again? Notpidgeon reported me to Rogues Gallery and i wanted him to pay for squealing on me. Sherdder Rhodes for shooting back at me... out of the countless hundreds i killed he was the only one to shoot back, so i made him hurt for it. pkers do what they do out of bordom or being assholes, or maybe both.
Nemesis645: I remember I was with a group of survivors. We were planning to join a group, but before I could do so, a guy popped up out of nowhere, shot me to death, dumped me outside and caused me to die about 2 more times before somebody came and revived me! Also, if it were not for PKers, it is likely that Forts and Malls would last longer or possibly stop sieges altogether! 12:35, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
Steve Kornet: In my opinion, PKers Are all either amazing roleplayers or complete jerks. After all, you can't expect everyone to keep a level head during a zombie apocalypse. Now, if some PKs for "fun", they suck. If they PK for roleplaying purposes, they win a cookie.--Steve Kornet 03:10, 13 July 2009 (BST)
Dr. Eirin Yagokoro: It's a terrible misconception that PKers are jerks who grew bored of shooting zombies. And those who've spoken out on this page haven't done anything to change that image. I'll say this right now: it's a political agenda. We're at war. People die in wars. This whole conflict isn't about humans vs. zombies. It's the brave few enlightened against the long-standing tyranny of the machine. Call us what you will: rebels, rogues, terrorists, murderers. But we aren't dicks with nothing better to do with our time. We're here to stand up to oppression. Sometimes, it's easier to stand when your enemies are lying face down. RinKou 02:13, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
John Ibans Speaking in-character, I kill as a means of educating the ignorant of Malton. I kill people who steal art from museums, deface libraries, or are otherwise ignorant. Speaking out-of-character, I PK because it is a different way to play Urban Dead. If I want to play a human killing a zombie, I would log into an alt currently residing in the Fort, or if I want to play my zombie character, I will log into my member of the MOB. I play all three "roles" in each session, a human hunting zombies, a human educating other humans, and a zombie hunting humans. It is important to note that in-character, I am not just a rouge gun shooting everyone, only ignorants. 02:23, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
De-caders
Those who smash barricades have an explainable in-game excuse as well.
Teksura:"I woke up not long ago and was shocked to find that someone was taking a crowbar to the barricades of my safehouse. I asked him what he was doing and he panicked. He tried to get away but I cornered him and made him talk while my shotgun was pointed at his head. He stated that he was trying to get the zombies to attack this safehouse. When I asked him why he said it was to make where he was staying a less attractive target to them. He then welcomed me to join him in his safehouse if I helped lower the barricades in this one. Apparently, this man was trying to sacrifice others to save his own hide. He knew the zombies had to eat someone, so why not make them eat someone else?" --Teksura 04:32, 17 May 2006 (BST)
It is also possible that a user inside a barricaded building may think that they are trapped inside and smash the barricades, and with no other option that to lower the barricades to a managable level. - Waluigi Freak 99
Simon Hollows However, in most cases I have seen, the De-cading is done by someone with free running, who will simply de-cade the building, then run to the next safe house, doing the same to it. This defies Teksura's logic, in that the person had no permanent safe house (I chased him through several buildings) but was simply doing this to 'help the zeds out' or so he claimed.
It is also probable that a person you find de-cading a building is in reality a very sensible player who is tring to undo the work of insensitive, higher-level players who just love to barricade all buildings to EHB. The only times I have attacked barricades is to bring them down to their designated (but usually not followed) barricade level of VSB++, to allow newer players without free running to enter. If you find someone doing that to a police station or a hospital that is not under direct attack from a big mob of zeds, don't get mad at them; they're simply following the designated barricade plan and making gaining xp possible for newer players. --ScaredPlayer 20:15, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Revive point hunters
People who hunt at marked revive points also can have a reason for doing that.
Dreak:"I was doing some revives at a marked revive point a few days ago. This guy came up and started shooting every zombie he could. I told him to stop and that this was a revive point but he wouldn't quit. I had to follow him back to his safehouse to ask why he did that. He told me that reviving zombies was hopeless. They would stand up with a human body, but their soul would still be gone and they would be an even greater danger to us all. This person believed that you could revive the body but the mind would stay that of a zombie, they believed that there was no hope for the undead because the spirit was already gone and in God's hands. To this person, someone who was revived is nothing more then a zombie pretending to still be alive." --Teksura 04:32, 17 May 2006 (BST)
Tuck23: "Occasionally revive point griefing will be due to a vendetta; perhaps the person being attacked or killed was in response to a combat revive, pk, or previous griefing. Griefers oftentimes end up back at the revive points, so they are naturally good and solid hunting grounds for revenge." --Tuck23 02:08, 15 December 2006 (MST)
Simon Hollows However, In my personal experience, most revive point hunting is done due to need for either EXP, or the fact that the zombies there usually do not fight back. The people being revived line up at revive points, simply because they do not want to be zombies any longer. And this contradicts Teksura's example, for someone who deliberately tries to cure themself of undeath implies that they have a soul, simply by doing that.
RinKou: I'll say this right now. Revive points are terrible role playing. RPs are terrible RP. Catchy, isn't it? In no zombie genre-tale do the zombies line up and docilely stand around while they wait for their friends to stick a needle in their neck. Revive points then, are only used by people who ignore all logic of how the game should work. Anything that makes "playing" the "game" harder or less rewarding for them is really the only reason I'm still here. RinKou 02:20, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
ZKers
A ZKer is not really hurting anyone unless they do it at a revive point. Even then this is explainable. A ZKer is nothing more then a very confused zombie. Even worse then ZKing at a revive point would be simply wounding the first one until they have 3 HP, then you need only wait for someone with headshot to come along and finish the job; still explainable as the zombie being confused, however they figured out that they were munching on something that was already dead.
Teia:"I was a zombie outside a mall. One zombie seemed a little strange, he didn't seem to be able to tell the difference between a harman and a fellow zombie. He started biting me thinking I was a harman. Soon I was unable to stand and fell dead, however this was a good thing for me because it meant I would not get headshot." --Teksura 04:32, 17 May 2006 (BST)
Jonathan:"Also it's not strange for zombies to behave in unpredictable, irrational ways - after all their brain has been damaged, isn't it? What is strange, is that zombies behave in organized, military-like coordinated actions which exploit game rules to their best. But I guess there is nothing to do about this, being human players after all... don't really think I can force them to behave stupidly ^^ --Jonathan 16:40, 16 December 2006 (BST)
dtbr:"This could be explained by zombies retaining scraps of residual memory: Military personnel are highly trained, and this knowledge may reach the level of instinct, depending on experience. Long-time civilian survivors may also experience this. Maybe for those for whom survival is a way of life, it remains so even in death. --dtbr 20:07, 14 March 2007 (BST)
Roger Thirnell Memories of Life gives a role-playing reason to Zk. Indeed, all zombies with memories of life and appropriately adapted digestive systems should Zk! --Roger Thirnell 07:53, 5 August 2007 (BST)
--Pharo2i2 22:25, 4 November 2007 (UTC) Technically, zombies aprrove of this because:
- It can restore HP
and * It means they canavoid a headshotter by lying down, while regaining AP by waiting. Also many "Hive Mind" zombies let "Younger" Zombies gain XP this way to gain skills usefull in eating harmanz.
--Sterling Bershadsky 21:25, 12 November 2007 (UTC) Of course, if you're a newb zombie who doesn't have Ankle Grab yet, you're going to be pissed off if you get killed because you're going to lose a full 10 AP!
--Nimbalo 21:14, 13 December 2007 (UTC) I would have to say I would disagree with the statement that zombies are "stupid." In order to be stupid, one must be able to think. Zombies do not think, at least, not in my books. They congregate in hordes, implying that they are some kind of autonomous collective. They do not think, therefore they cannot be intelligent or stupid. Furthermore, stating that survivors, after death, retain "scraps of residual memory" is flawed. When was the last time you saw a zombified military man in a zombie flick march? Salute? Refuse to much on his CO? I know I haven't. Personally, I believe the "Memories of Life" skill was just a way to allow zombies into buildings, forgoing the more logical explanation of bashing down doors. ZKing does not fir in with any zombie lore. Zombies act as one being, so infighting would be impossible. PKing is logical in this context, as people are individuals, and are free to do what they will. I also cannot comprehend what Roger Thirnell is stating. Why should zombies with Memories of Life ZK? Memories of life is a skill to allow zombies to eat all the cowardly harmanz hiding behind their strangely invincible doors.
--Few 12:41, 16 February 2008 (EST) As a low-level character (10AP to stand), waiting 60 hours on the revive list, while in a cemetary & official RP, it's very frustrating to have a level 41 ZK character come and wipe out everyone! If that's not griefing... Proof: undead assalter7 - Level 41 Zombie ZK'er
--Doctorgun 04:56, 24 August 2008 (BST) As an alt my zombie is a rampant ZKer. Why? because I was a level 1 zed in an area that had fallen into zed hands and it was the easiest thing to do. I do NOT, however, attack RP because of the the sacred ground policy. I am now level 8 and have all the skills needed to make life hell for harmans. so I moved and while I still ZK it is only because of slim pickings. nothing else. most zeds ZK because of the easy XP and the rarity of said XP in the lower levels.
RinKou: As I mentioned above, I ZK a lot with my alts when there's no human targets around (when they're zombified, at least), but only at RPs. Anything that makes the game harder for people who won't play it the way it should be done in-character deserve the minor inconvenience. RinKou 02:23, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
Over-caders
An over-cader is someone who constantly barricades buildings to the highest level (EHB) regardless of local barricade plans and spray-painted messages indicating that the said building be kept at a certain lower level. This could be considered a form of griefing as constantly barricading police departments, fire stations, auto shops and hospitals to the highest levels deprives most new players from a) a safe place to sleep at night and b) gaining experience (as you usually need guns/ammunition and FAKs to gain xp). In some suburbs almost all TRPs are overcaded even when there is no immediate threat, often with a significant number of human survivors stranded outside. If there is a certain person who constantly over-cades without any sensible reason (or simply for their own xp-gain), they could be considered a griefer.--ScaredPlayer 20:19, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Maybe the over-cader you are stating does not know that over-cading will cause any harm.Maybe he/she thinks what he/she is doing is correct.And over-cading isnt really a bad thing.Think about it,a new player finds some ammo in a police station,he stys there overnight.A mob of zombies go in and murder him.If the police station was over-caded,the new player cannot possibly enter there.Over-cading also adds to the realism,in a real quarantined vity full of zombies exist,do you possibly think there's a human baricading just enough for a zombie to break in?Of course not!He/she will probably build the strongest barricade he/she can build as to keep the zombies out.--Ratyoupop3:46,17 May 2009(UTC)
In all honesty,I was an over-cader I did not know Overcading was a problem because i had been so used to having free running until 2 instances occurred with my other characters, I first made a lvl 1 person all over again without free running and used a hospital as my safehouse until it became EHB. not knowing what to do I looked all over town and then ran out of ap, dying shortly after. (this again happened to my free runner when my old entry point at one end of town became EHB). Around the same time my Zombie had recently broke into Kersley Mansion, and after ransacking most of the building, but without decading, someone revived me, caded the entrance i used and left me in there. as a first time human my character had no weapons, nor free running and was stuck until another zed finally broke in and killed me. so thats what taught me about how cades can be for greivance too! KFrosty
