Talk:Suggestions/28th-Dec-2006
Expedient Shotgun, v.2
Timestamp: | Asheets 19:28, 28 December 2006 (UTC) |
Type: | New weapon type |
Scope: | humans |
Description: | (This is a revision of my original proposal. It was requested that it be pulled and moved to discussion for cleanup before resubmitting for final voting. This was placed into the discussion area on 12/28/06, and should be moved to either voting or discussion archive on 1/3/07.)
I was thumbing through my old military manuals, and stumbled across an old US Army guide on how to make a field-expedient shotgun out of a shell and length of pipe. Given the number of military-playing characters in the game, this might make sense. The requirements would be To make this an advantageous weapon to have, the inventory cost of the pipe should be reduced to .5 per pipe. This, combined with the fact that pipes are easier to find should make the expedient shotgun a popular weapon. Since pipes can be found at locations other than PDs and malls, the importance of those locations is reduced (although finding shells at those locations is still required).
Damage: 10 points (8 against a flak jacket.) Capacity: 1 Shotgun Shell 65% chance of hitting something (64% chance of hitting desired target) Average Damage Per 2 Shells: 13 To Kill 50HP Enemy: 9 Attacks (15 AP) 1% chance of blowing up, inflicting 10 points (8 against user wearing a flak jacket.) 1% chance of hitting something other than the target, inflicting 10 points (8 against a flak jacket.)
INITIAL DISCUSSION:
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Discussion
Well you didn't counter any of my arguements in my vote. Why would this thing have ANYWHERE near the accuracy of an ACTUAL shotgun? Are you adding on sights and a grip/handle? No, this is, basically speaking, just a pipe with a shotgun shell rammed in the end. (And, no the piddly 1% chance of exploding is NOT a counter). This seems like the kind of thing for an emergency. "Oh shit, zombies are busting in! I've got that pipe I never use and some shotgun shells but no shotgun! Lets see what I can McGyver up..." Here is how I'd consider doing it:
- Damage: 12/10 (yes, higher)
- Requirements: Construction, a pipe and a shotgun shell.
- Accuracy: Base 5%. Basic Firearms Training applies (+25%) for a max of 30% to hit.
- 5% chance of blowing up doing damage half damage (6/5) to the firer.
As I said, I see this as more of an "emergency" weapon or something more for a newbie.--Pesatyel 06:34, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
- re Well, see... I disagree. If we were talking about an expedient rifle or pistol, then I'd see accuracy coming WAY down. Having once been stupid enough to have built one of these things IRL, I personally didn't notice much accuracy dropoff from a real chokeless or sawed-off shotgun -- which is what I envision being used in Malton. Plus, the Army manual where I got the idea from recommends test firing (from a distance) the thing 10 times, then inspecting for damage on every use thereafter. Can't do that in-game, so I'm guessing a 1% failure rate on every use then disposal thereafter. In addition, the distribution section of my manual recommends that the reader have a certain high level of advanced infantry and POW training -- which is why I believe that newbies should not have this weapon, and that it should only be available to those with advanced shotgun training. Asheets 17:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
- So, on that one you built, was it just a pipe and a shell and a trigger of some sort? Or did you add sights and grips and such? And you describe the weapons as a ONE SHOT item. Meaning the computer rolls to hit, factoring in the chance of it exploding. So that 1% failure rate you mention means nothing. I see NO benefit to using this weapon, especially given the chance of taking damage yourself. Why wouldn't you just search for a shotgun? That's why I suggested the higher damage and the more "newbie friendly" version. Bare in mind too that realism isn't mandatory (why are we using these double-barrel shotguns in the first place? And what pistol only holds 6 rounds?). Seriously though, compare the two:
- re Well, see... I disagree. If we were talking about an expedient rifle or pistol, then I'd see accuracy coming WAY down. Having once been stupid enough to have built one of these things IRL, I personally didn't notice much accuracy dropoff from a real chokeless or sawed-off shotgun -- which is what I envision being used in Malton. Plus, the Army manual where I got the idea from recommends test firing (from a distance) the thing 10 times, then inspecting for damage on every use thereafter. Can't do that in-game, so I'm guessing a 1% failure rate on every use then disposal thereafter. In addition, the distribution section of my manual recommends that the reader have a certain high level of advanced infantry and POW training -- which is why I believe that newbies should not have this weapon, and that it should only be available to those with advanced shotgun training. Asheets 17:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
- shotgun: 2 spaces, holds 2 shells, 65% to hit (maxed), 10 damage
- this suggestion: 2 spaces, holds 1 shell, 64% to hit (maxed), 10 damage, 1% chance of exploding.
Except for pistol ammo in a clip, you can't have fractional "weight" for inventory purposes. A pipe would have to be a minimum of 1, shell a minimum of 1 and this weapon a minimum of 2.--Pesatyel 20:51, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
- I know of no documented reason, offhand, why there can't be fractional inventory items. If there is, and you can link to it, then the whole suggestion goes out the window (and I'll accept that). If there isn't any reason, though, then the advantage of this weapon over the shotgun is that you can carry and fire a lot more ammo (34 to 24) (BTW, from what I've read, a loaded shotgun takes 3 spaces, not 2) with only a slightly lesser chance to hit.Asheets 04:07, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
- How about the radio? It takes FIVE spaces. Not because it is big, but because it HAS to. Don't you think something like THAT would use "fractional" space if it could? Or what about syringes and shotgun shells themselves? Or how about the portable generator? Logically it would take a LOT of space on its own, wouldn't it? The system just doesn't appear to be DESIGNED for fractional counting (not to mention the balance factor) and if it did, I can think of MUCH better things to use it on then this (no offense). And wouldn't you always have to have TWO of these things so as to not waste the space?--Pesatyel 06:09, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
- I know of no documented reason, offhand, why there can't be fractional inventory items. If there is, and you can link to it, then the whole suggestion goes out the window (and I'll accept that). If there isn't any reason, though, then the advantage of this weapon over the shotgun is that you can carry and fire a lot more ammo (34 to 24) (BTW, from what I've read, a loaded shotgun takes 3 spaces, not 2) with only a slightly lesser chance to hit.Asheets 04:07, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
I would consider adjusting the accuracy level down a bit, but I'd need some help adjusting some of the other numbers (search rates, locations, weights) so that this suggestion would still be a viable choice. Asheets 17:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)