Developing Suggestions

Developing Suggestions

This page is for presenting and discussing suggestions which have not yet been submitted and are still being worked on.

Further Discussion

Discussion concerning this page takes place here. Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general (including policies about it) takes place here.

Nothing on this page will be archived.

Please Read Before Posting

• Be sure to check The Frequently Suggested List and the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots before you post your idea. There you can read about many idea's that have been suggested already, which users should be aware of before posting what could be a dupe, or a duplicate of an existing suggestion. These include Machine Guns and Sniper Rifles. There users can also get a handle of what an appropriate suggestion looks like.
• Users should be aware that this is a talk page, where other users are free to use their own point of view, and are not required to be neutral. While voting is based off of the merit of the suggestion, opinions are freely allowed here.
• It is recommended that users spend some time familiarizing themselves with this page before posting their own suggestions.
• With the advent of new game updates, users are requested to allow some time for the game and community to adjust to these changes before suggesting alterations.

How To Make a Suggestion

Format for Suggestions under development

Please use this template for discussion. Copy all the code in the box below, click [edit] to the right of the header "Suggestions", paste the copied text above the other suggestions, and replace the text shown here in red with the details of your suggestion.

===Suggestion===
{{suggestionNew
|suggest_time=~~~~
|suggest_type=Skill, balance change, improvement, etc.
|suggest_scope=Who or what it applies to.
|suggest_description=Full description. Check spelling and be descriptive.
|discussion=|}}
====Discussion (Suggestion Name)====
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Cycling Suggestions

Developing suggestions that appear to have been abandoned (i.e. two days or longer without any new edits) will be given a warning for deletion. If there are no new edits it will be deleted seven days following the last edit.

This page is prone to breaking when there are too many templates or the page is too long, so sometimes a suggestion still under strong discussion will be moved to the Overflow-page, where the discussion can continue between interested parties.

The following suggestions are currently on the Overflow page: No suggestions are currently in overflow.

If you are adding a comment to a suggestion that has the deletion warning template please remove the {{SNRV|X}} at the top of the discussion section. This will show that there is active conversation again.

Please add new suggestions to the top of the list.

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Suggestions

No Syringe Manufacture in Ruined NTs

Timestamp:	Kolechovski 21:56, 19 May 2009 (BST)
Type:	balance change
Scope:	ruined NTs
Description:	I noticed something from the suggestion NT Ruins Ruin Rotter Revives (try saying that 10 times fast), found here, http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Suggestion:20090409_NT_Ruins_Ruin_Rotter_Revives, that would support this mechanic. The CRing makes sense, because you are connecting to an outside source for the ability (NecroNet). But with Syringe Manufacture, that should require the ability of the lab equipment to do, so having ruined equipment should make it impossible to manufacture syringes. A few supporting mechanics… Zombies sweep lab equipment onto the floor. Afterward, you go inside…You are inside a ruined NT Building. The NecroTech logo is set in the wall behind the front desk, and doors open onto powered-down computer rooms and laboratories. The laboratories have been ruined, with broken equipment smashed to the floor.

Discussion (No Syringe Manufacture in Ruined NTs)

Your probably going to get the same "against" arguments that one did as well. People don't really make syringes, not when finding them is much more efficient.--Pesatyel 02:43, 20 May 2009 (BST)

Not in a ruined NT. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 05:20, 20 May 2009 (BST)

Sure, but it doesn't really take THAT much to do repairs, especially since NTs are so hotly contested, I don't think they stay ruined for very long. Besides, as Honestmistake said, this more fixes a seeming loophole then a nerf. I was just pointing out that people will bitch and whine.--Pesatyel 02:55, 21 May 2009 (BST)

To the contrary, the more contested a ruined NT is, the harder it is going to be to do repairs. Keep in mind to make syringes more efficient to search for rather than manufacture, you'd need to repair the NT (for whatever AP cost), barricade it, gen and fuel it. That could take 3 people to do that and not have any AP left over, and that's not counting the clearing of the zombies that might be inside. And to think that after all that, the players won't have the AP left over to search for the syringes, so then the 24 hour wait begins before they can give that a go. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 05:04, 21 May 2009 (BST)

It never even occurred to me that you could manufacture inside ruined NT's, I would think this to be a pretty obvious modification to remove a loophole rather than a survivor de-buff. --Honestmistake 08:16, 20 May 2009 (BST)

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Military Frequency List

Timestamp:	RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 19:56, 19 May 2009 (BST)
Type:	Flavour improvement
Scope:	Anyone
Description:	Ramping up those other military frequencies, for more spam free broadcasts. 25.90 Fort Overview. Broadcast once daily, alternating daily between each fort, just like a suburb report, but fort only. 25.91 Consumer Watch, random daily update on the state of a mall. 25.92 Devastation Report- Random daily report on building/s with over 100ap repair cost 25.93 Zombie Tracking. Hourly report on location of block with most standing zombies in malton. 25.94 Phone mast report. Daily report on the staus of 5 mobile phone mast buildings. 25.95 Malton Overview. Daily broadcast, highlighting any change in the zombie survivor ratio, plus random information on a non mall multiblock structure

Discussion (Military Frequence Use)

I'm now waiting for those dupe to roll in.--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 19:56, 19 May 2009 (BST)

Even if there is a dupe, I dig the idea. Problem I see is [an odd one] giving the location of the block with most zombies in it. An odd problem, but the only thing I really see wrong. Seems a bit unnecessary. -- T^HEL^ORDG^UNS^LINGER 02:23, 20 May 2009 (BST)

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Military Frequency Use

Timestamp:	A Big F'ing Dog 02:32, 19 May 2009 (BST)
Type:	Flavor/Improvement
Scope:	Forts
Description:	There are a few external military frequencies that players are unable to broadcast over. Since the military rebuilt the forts for survivor use, perhaps they also left them with equipment to broadcast on some restricted frequencies. I suggest allowing transmitters inside of fort buildings to be set to broadcast on channels from 25.90-25.95. People would be able to listen in from anywhere of course. This would not affect the channel broadcasting npc military reports, which is 25.96. People would still not be able to transmit over that frequency. And should Kevan ever want to add more npc military channels for some reason, there's still 25.97 and higher. What this would do is provide channels for intra and inter fort communication that have vastly reduced spam. Since only people within the forts can transmit over those channels there would be a much smaller number of people able to spam those channels at any given point. This would make 25.90-95 very useful for coordinating military operations among the forts' inhabitants and local patrols. I think anything that makes forts more about tactical operations and less about waiting in one place for a big mob of zombies to kick you out is a good thing.

Discussion (Military Frequency Use)

Or maybe the radio spammers who just sit still all day spamming radios would just go to the forts? --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:06, 19 May 2009 (BST)

and good riddance to em! --Honestmistake 19:19, 19 May 2009 (BST)

Am I the only one that's read the fucking archives even though it says to at the top of the freakin' page? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 02:18, 20 May 2009 (BST)

What's your point? That suggestion was 3 years old. You mean to tell me that NOTHING has or can change in 3 years to making bring up old ideas totally unviable? The question here is whether or not this old idea would be good, now as it wasn't then.--Pesatyel 02:49, 20 May 2009 (BST)

Change is irrelevant. This goes to voting, I notice it, put the link up, put out a call on IRC, five minutes later it's cycled. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 04:15, 20 May 2009 (BST)

Once again I have to disagree with your dupe link. The other suggestion is for coded radio channels with a variable range, it requires a new skill to use (and understand) and can be used anywhere. This only requires a radio and a very specific location, it also has the same range as normal radios. Those are pretty significant changes to the mechanic.... especially considering that the variable range bit was what got most kills in the old suggestion. --Honestmistake 08:22, 20 May 2009 (BST)

Yes, but this suggesstion would change nothing. It would just add more frequencies, that people either wouldn't listen to, or only a select group of people who stay in the forts would use. It wouldn't make them more strategic, people just wouldn't use this method unless they were already there. --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 15:44, 20 May 2009 (BST)

that might constitute a good reason to kill this but doesn't make it SPAM. --Honestmistake 18:49, 20 May 2009 (BST)

I never said anything about SPAM, you Donkey. --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 11:14, 21 May 2009 (BST)

So lets shut down the suggestion page then?--Pesatyel 02:56, 21 May 2009 (BST)

No, you're overreacting. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 03:22, 21 May 2009 (BST)

Not really, Iscariot calls dupe on pretty much everything. This one is very unlike his link but look below where he Dupes something because the game already has monuments as locations and something else because a script exists??? Now the script one actually is a dupe, just not for the reasons he gives. Its insane how often he comes up with the most tenuous of reasons for something being a dupe and if he ever gets away with enforcing his opinion on dupes then the page really will be redundant! --Honestmistake 08:23, 21 May 2009 (BST)

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Reorder items/pick gun to fire

Timestamp:	Excaliburp 19 May 2009
Type:	Improvement
Scope:	Survivors
Description:	Allow items to be reordered, so that there won't be situations where a survivor reloads the empty guns in front, but has half-empty ones left lower down the list that will never get fired unless he runs through all the freshly-reloaded ones in front. Either that, or allow a choice of exactly which weapon to fire, which solves that problem in a different way, but is probably a lot more troublesome to implement.

Discussion (Reorder items/pick gun to fire)

I support this dupe! The good news is that there are scripts to do this.... if you play from somewhere that means you can use em. --Honestmistake 19:27, 18 May 2009 (BST)

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Megaphone

Timestamp:	The Master Scout 12:36, 17 May 2009
Type:	Item
Scope:	Survivors
Description:	Simple: a megaphone that allow survivors to launch vocal messages in the streets, and that works in a way similar to Graffiti and Feeding Groans. The player wrote the message in a text box, and everybody within a certain range (3,4 or so...)) will display it, maybe through something like "You heard a megaphone shouting "TEXT" from *DIRECTION*". ...to make things better, it's use can be limited in certain building. In any dark builings (no windows) it could be impossibile. While, in Tall Buildings and Towers, survivors may be supposed to use it on the roof, hence, it range can be wider. Just like Spray Cans, it's use can be limited to certain times before discard. After all, megaphones use batteries. It can be found, says, in Police Depts, Fire Stations, Hardware Store and the like. I think it can be an interesting variant to Radio Messages and Mobile Phones.

Discussion (Megaphone)

Seems a bit dupish...if that's even a word. I don't know, this isn't really necessary, and people will spam with this.--Thadeous Oakley 12:44, 17 May 2009 (BST)

It is a dupe, from 2005 IIRC. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 13:08, 17 May 2009 (BST)

Dupe-o-rific. But I'm lazy-o-rific. --WanYao 20:15, 17 May 2009 (BST)

Someone already suggest it? No surprise, i guess it's a pretty predictable idea, after all. Yes, probably people will spam with it...but i guess again that meta-gaming communication outside of the game is already overused, to make in-game communication really meaningful. By this point of view, an item like that will surely be useless.--The Master Scout 13:38, 18 May 2009 (BST)

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Sculptures In Parks

Timestamp:	A Big F'ing Dog 20:48, 15 May 2009 (BST)
Type:	Flavour
Scope:	Park squares
Description:	Why should only the indoors be decorated? I suggest allowing people to place sculptures (and maybe other weather-proof decorative items) in parks as they can in buildings. Zombies would be able to attack these outdoors sculptures and destroy them one at a time with an accurate hit, but since they're out in the open and easy to attack there would be no xp gain for doing so.

Discussion (Sculptures In Parks)

Question - What's the point, really, if most survivors visit parks for a minute or so, looking for an EP? --Haliman - Talk 20:52, 15 May 2009 (BST)

Usually I am all open for more atmosphere in urbandead, but this seems just useless. I mean, when I am moving outside through open blocks its just click-click for me.--Thadeous Oakley 22:47, 15 May 2009 (BST)

Many parks are used as revive points. This would give the waiting mrh cows, visiting scientists, and scan blocking brainrotters a more interesting view. --A Big F'ing Dog 22:52, 15 May 2009 (BST)

Dupe of in-game. Monuments are sculptures in the open. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 00:02, 16 May 2009 (BST)

Can you attack monuments?

No

Can you choose where to place them?

No

Is this suggestion a dupe?

No

Is this suggestion worth implementing?

Also No.--Honestmistake 14:47, 16 May 2009 (BST)

Nope. As Iscariot and Honest M. I'd like to be able to target statues and monuments for grafitti/vandalism, though, that might be fun. --WanYao 20:17, 17 May 2009 (BST)

You already can, according to the wiki. In fact you get 2 XP for it.--Pesatyel 20:59, 17 May 2009 (BST)

Although if you mean the option to vandalise art insalations then that might be fun.... pointless but still fun. "Someone has set up a bust of long dead soldier... someone else has painted a mustache on it!" ;) --Honestmistake 19:29, 18 May 2009 (BST)

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Extra first aid kits display as if they where ammunition

Timestamp:	Turtleboy412 Talk! In game 02:34, 14 May 2009 (BST)
Type:	A bit of a change to equipment.
Scope:	People who carry a fair ammount of first aid kits.
Description:	My suggestion is simple. If you find a first aid kit you see "Searching through the hospital, you find some first aid supplies and add them to your first aid kit" or somthing along those lines. Instead of seeing First aid kit, First aid kit, First aid kit, First aid kit, First aid kit, First aid kit, First aid kit, First aid kit, First aid kit, First aid kit you would see First aid kit (11). Nothing would change except having multiple first aid kits would be displayed as having plenty of supplies for one kit. It also seems a bit more realistic as people will not be able to carry 30 first aid kits and be able to jump through the windows of buildings like freaking spider man.

Discussion (Extra first aid kits display as if they where ammunition)

This is a good idea and I like it. It makes sense. Sorakairi 02:48, 14 May 2009 (BST)

So your just suggesting changing the flavor text for when you find a FAK.--Pesatyel 04:59, 14 May 2009 (BST)

I like it as long as it doesn't change encumbrance. Just consolidate the individual items into a number.--Necrofeelinya 06:56, 14 May 2009 (BST)

Inventory/UI mod, such as UDtool. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 08:44, 14 May 2009 (BST)

Oh, and it's a dupe. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 08:54, 14 May 2009 (BST)

In game changes to act like current add-ons and mods are dupes. Get Firefox and download them or live with it. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 08:58, 14 May 2009 (BST)

No they are not. A dupe is a suggestion that has been suggested before in either the same or a very similar format. An existing add-on is often a good sign that something should be in game but isn't (possibly because of the very existence of that add on) This particular suggestion is still a Dupe though.

One last thing, a great many people play this game from work and do not have the option of using mods and add-ons. Killing good ideas just because you do not need it in game is not a reasonable option. --Honestmistake 09:28, 14 May 2009 (BST)

They are dupes because they've been put through the system before for the same reason as the current suggester wants them. Kevan hasn't implemented them. End of debate. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 09:30, 14 May 2009 (BST)

This is a dupe. A really old dupe. Discussion? Over. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 20:10, 14 May 2009 (BST)

Yep, this is done to death. And solved with inv sorting apps. Your interpretation of the interface is wrong anyway: all clips show individually. Next, please. --20:20, 17 May 2009 (BST)

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Fire Through and Reach Through Barricades

Timestamp:	Sorakairi 02:50, 14 May 2009 (BST)
Type:	Skills
Scope:	Zombies and Humans
Description:	This was posted here earlier, but now I'm redoing it. Fire Through 'Cades. A Military Skill, this skill can only be bought when you have all gun skills. It allows you to point your gun through the 'cades to the outside, and fire. You cannot fire through anything above Lightly Barricaded, because of everything in the way. You cannot specifically target, and your accuracy is decreased from 65% to 45% to deal with the objects in your way. You can shoot through, even if no one is there Reach Through 'Cades A MoL or Combat skill, either way it could be bought whenever. It allows you to reach through and claw. You cannot reach through anything above Lightly Barricaded. You can't target specific people, just Harman or Zombah. This time, though, your accuracy is decreased by 15%, due to the fact that you could buy it at anytime, and Zombies are usually shown as reaching through Barricades in most movies. You won't attack if no one is there. Recap of FTC: All gun skills before accessible. Fire though LiB or lower. No Specific Targeting Accuracy Decrease of 20% Fire Through even if no one there. Recap of RTC: Accessible after MoL or Vigour Mortis. Allows to reach through and claw. Reach through LiB or lower. Targeting Human or Zombie. Accuracy Decrease of 15%. Won't attack if no ones there.

Discussion (Fire and Reach Through Barricades)

I have rewritten this, as 2 separate skills. Hope you like it. Sorakairi 02:50, 14 May 2009 (BST)

I can see, maybe, how someone MIGHT use it.

• Zombies: Zombie attacks are dropped to 10/20/35. Debarricading at the same levels would be 12/17/25, so a zombie would have a SLIGHTLY higher chance to hit then to debarricade.
• Survivors: Survivor attacks are dropped to 5/30/40. They can also barricade as normal.

But you still have the x-ray vision problem.--Pesatyel 05:27, 14 May 2009 (BST)

I feel this suggestion still falls under the categories of "encouraging the wrong things" and "just not smart." --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 08:45, 14 May 2009 (BST)

Just so you know, this is just taking up space on this page. No matter what changes you make, the ability to look outside your current building without exposing yourself to attack is X-Ray Vision and will be spammed in less than 24 hours. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 09:00, 14 May 2009 (BST)

Two ways this might work for zombies:

• Restrict it to working only against folk the zombie knows are inside because they have followed their scent trail.
• The attack option is always open even if no one is inside. The only way the zombie gets to know for certain is if it hits something, with the attack chances as they are they could easily give up due to bad luck.

For survivors i think its pretty fair to say they can only shoot at a zed who has recently reached through the barricade, ie their last action was to try this and the cade level has not changed.--Honestmistake 09:36, 14 May 2009 (BST)

Or they could get lucky and have a low-chance (but still possible) means of X-Ray vision. Spend a few AP, find buildings with people in them. As for "can only shoot out if a zombie's last action was to reach in," that's just all kinds of crap. It takes 1 AP then to make it impossible for a survivor to shoot back. But then, this suggestion smells overall. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 20:13, 14 May 2009 (BST)

Survivor steps outside to shoot zombies then spends 1AP to move away making it impossible for the zombie to fight back... how exactly is that any different to allowing a zombie to move away from limited shooting range? --Honestmistake 14:51, 16 May 2009 (BST)

Bugger off already. --WanYao 20:21, 17 May 2009 (BST)

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Suicide With A Vengeance

I was bored, so I put it up for a vote. It wasn't getting much discussion here anyway. If people can't even bother to troll it, maybe it's a good idea. Or not... guess we'll find out.--Necrofeelinya 18:58, 13 May 2009 (BST)

We ignored it because there was nothing constructive to add to such a bad idea. And criticising a bad suggestion is not trolling. Grow up. --WanYao 20:24, 17 May 2009 (BST)

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Suicide Improvement

Timestamp:	--Kamikazie-Bunny 22:47, 8 May 2009 (BST)
Type:	Improvement
Scope:	Jumpers
Description:	Any dedicated zombie knows that combat revives can be a pain but are easily negated by suicide. Whilst it may appear to be an easy choice with a low AP cost suicide should never be taken lightly. The blunt trauma inflicted across the entire body can quite easily exceed the effects of a well aimed cricket bat to the head. With that in mind I present the following: 1) When a player commits suicide by jumping from a tall building they must spend an extra 5AP to stand up. 2) Any player inside/outside a building a player jumps from receives the message "Player jumped out a window".

Discussion (Suicide Improvement)

Part two is a dupe, as below. As for part one, I don't think brain-rot zed players should be punished for getting combat revived. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 23:00, 8 May 2009 (BST)

Part two was pretty much inspired by that minus the radius but it's only flavour and entirely optional. The penalty is not intended to punish Zombies, it is intended to add a bit more realism and balance. Yes CR's are annoying but they cost the user and Rot also helps counter, the ability to (literally) jump to zeds and stand up for as little as 2AP and with full health is a bit unfair, my alternative idea would be standing up at 1/2 health (similar to being revived) but I fear there may be more opposition. --Kamikazie-Bunny 00:03, 9 May 2009 (BST)

I loathe this suggestion (the AP loss part of it anyway), but there is a change to suicide that I would support... letting people use suicide as a targeted attack against anyone in the immediate space outside the building. Lots o' damage, not a great chance to hit, but it would be oh-so worth it to try. Also, I don't think I've ever seen a suicide from outside a building, or if so I haven't noticed. Is it accompanied by a descriptive message? It should be. Especially if they land on you. What a great way to encourage people to jump off of tall buildings.--Necrofeelinya 00:41, 9 May 2009 (BST)

Oh, and to juice it more, give it a 10% chance that when you jump off a building and successfully land on someone, you don't die right away, instead losing 4/5ths of your Max HP immediately and get a condition called Grievous Injury, which has basically the same effect as infectious bite, but stops costing HP after the first 20... that way you can stay alive (barely) even if it's just by drinking tons of beer, but if you don't do anything to heal pretty quickly you'll croak.--Necrofeelinya 01:08, 9 May 2009 (BST)

You want to give all buildings free headshot? Fuck you!

Let's look at Newbie Zombie A. Newbie Zombie A has only Vigour Mortis, but he wants to play in character so he spends a day attacking a building. With his last AP he enters the building as any good zombie should. Unfortunately NZA doesn't know that this building is a NT because he doesn't metagame in anyway, even to the point of never looking at the wiki. He's the 10 minutes a day casual player this game is supposed to be for, not us hours a day way to serious pseudo tacticians. He can't even tell which buildings are NTs even when he grows up as there's no skill to tell him and he refuses to buy harman skills. Now, back to his break in. So, when he's asleep and swaying, one of you mighty mathematical warriors saunter over to him and sticks a needle in the back of his head, first time, every time, putting him down in a single shot. Now hypocrites that you are you don't seem to think it odd that you can walk up to a sleeping zombie, place a pistol to its head and still miss 35% of the time but anything other than a 100% hit ratio for delicate and precise medical procedures is a game breaking nerf that will cause the extinction of all survivor kind, but I digress.

When NZA wakes up in the morning with his daily AP he has to stand up, this costs him 10AP because he does not have Ankle Grab, this is more than a fifth of his daily AP, a very damaging loss to him. Now his problems aren't over, he wishes to play in character and not buy any harman skills or spend time breathing so he has to die to play in character. Now he can't immediately jump out the window because the maths warriors have dumped his body and caded past VSB. He could wait for a passing zombie to kill him, but he wants to have his turn today and he can only play for 10 minutes a day, so he goes looking to die. So he must find a tall building with cades at VSB or less, he doesn't have free running remember, enter and jump. I'll be exceedingly generous and say this process takes 5AP, something I consider a smaller amount than it would actually take him. Now NZA jumps and he must stand up, this now costs him 15AP due to your dumb 'buildings have headshot' suggestion. Finally though, he can play as the in-genre character he's chosen to.

Since all you number crunchers love the equations, let's do the maths. 10AP to stand from the needle + 5AP to search and enter and jump + 15AP to stand from suicide due to the street having headshot = 30AP to play as the in-genre character type. That's 62.5% of his daily AP to play as a zombie in a zombie apocalypse game! And because he doesn't have the XP yet to buy Brain Rot, there's nothing to stop you doing that to him again tomorrow, or the next day, or every day until he decides that he doesn't want to play a game where someone can spend 14AP to remove 30 of his, and with his remaining 28AP he can at most move 14 squares and then do nothing, or attack where he stands 28 times at 35% and hope he can get lucky, remove the cades and get in some valuable XP earning shots on a harman.

Fuck you on behalf of every casual zombie player who takes the time to log in every day even though cunts like you would piss and cry if your 100% hit ratio was taken away for the same balance your try and claim when you go out of your way to fuck the casual player this game was designed for and the zombie players who make this game what it is. Retards like you make them leave this game, and we take one step closer to Urban PKer being the next update to the game's name. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 05:22, 9 May 2009 (BST)

Agreed entirely. Also, Dupe. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 06:27, 9 May 2009 (BST)

I didn't think that would count as a dupe because it was removed from voting for "revisioning".

As for Iscariots emo-esque rant...

Paragraph 1 (I'm ignoring that first sentance) - Congratulations for NZA getting into a NT which is most probably EHB (from your description either the suburb is full of survivors or be attacked by a strike team who are prioritising NTs). I agree that syringes should not be 100% accurate, so don't start bitching to me cause its not like I see you doing anything about it.

Paragraph 2 - So NZA has the normal stand up cost (which is another thing I feel needs changing), gets up and out right decides that he wants nothing to do with the survivor side... Ok, I'll accept that this player has a zombie fetish/hates humanity/odd (if he hated humanity he'd probably turn G/R/PKiller when alive. He then decides he wants to commit suicide (I'm assuming that he has been playing long enough to have broke into a few tall buildings and find out what suicide is and simultaneously not figured out how to spend XP/spent it on the scent tree as opposed to something obviously more beneficial).

Once again you've outlined the ideal situation for your argument and probably not considered the other end of the spectrum where experienced player use this mechanic to abuse the system. I'm not going to bother arguing about it with you, in fact I thank you for actually putting some effort into your response as opposed to just doing your traditional 'dupe without a link', even though you did result to the 'play as a zombie, you've never played as a zombie, if you had played as a zombie you would feel the way I do' whining that you do so well, but then again without that and your angst it wouldn't have your trade mark internet tough guy mark. I must admit your last paragraph was a little weaker than the rest of it though, the whole "fuck you on behalf of" was done not to long ago and to much greater effect. I'm not sure how you figured it was zombies who make this game what it is, true it would be fairly boring without them, but it would probably be even more boring without survivors (zombies DO have less things to entertain themselves with), the game is about both sides. As for your final thought, If I could make players who only played one side of the game leave I would, granted that would probably include you but telling you to fuck of is a bit pointless and we both know it, if more people played dual nature it would be better in my opinion. I know this may be difficult for you to fathom but one of my characters is a lvl 2 zed with shopping, the rot and excess XP and it's the only player I'm not playing dual nature with, considering how I spend most of my time as a zombie because I don't actively use a cemetery to get revived I probably know just as much as you (if not more) about playing as a zombie without LG&AG as you do. Either way if other people agree this version sucks I'll put the alternate version up for discussion anyway. --Kamikazie-Bunny 14:45, 9 May 2009 (BST)

A free headshot in every tall building =/= good idea. Why the fuck screw over zombie players like this?? Why not, as Iscariot rightly points out, nerf our 100% to hit, 100% effective anti-zombie attack? Sure, you don't like CRs? Get rot! But... wait... your suggestion screws me for getting rot!!! Great. Fucking. Idea.

And, if being a better writer and having more acute critical thinking skills than you makes Iscariot "emo"... Then I'm off to buy my tortiseshell glasses right now!! --WanYao 15:12, 9 May 2009 (BST)

Don't forget your little sisters makeup and jeans! D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 15:25, 9 May 2009 (BST)

But seriously, listen to Iscariot. Or Wan, who can sum it up in much smaller rant. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 15:27, 9 May 2009 (BST)

I'm not sure how this screws over rotters? Could you clarify that a bit please. The whole point of this suggestion is to make suicide less appealing, it doesn't stop you doing it but it makes you think that little bit more about before you do it. If your concerned about making every AP count then attack the barricades and wait outside for the hoard to retake you or play as a survivor until your inevitable demise. The emo comment, well that's just a different interpretation, I was referring to the attitude he used (AII) not the content which is pretty solid but biased. I have actually read Iscs comment numerous times, it's not exactly easy reading though. To summarise how I read it, "this screws over newbies who commit suicide every time they're revived". --Kamikazie-Bunny 16:07, 9 May 2009 (BST)

Do you actually play a dedicated zombie, KB? One usually buys rot to play a dedicated zombie. If a rotter is CRed in an NT and choses to jump -- which is what dedicated rotters do -- he now pays an extra 5 ap for it. Shafted. Wait, let the other zombies eat me? Did you know that's a big waste of AP which could be better spent on barricades or on eating survivors? This suggestion sucks because it screws over people who play a totally legitimate style. And, your emo comments just paint you as an in-the-closet jocko homo, and are lame. Like this suggestion. --WanYao 19:29, 9 May 2009 (BST)

As I mentioned earlier my dedicated zombie has the rot and nothing else, my others are dual natured. I wouldn't say this screws over a legitimate way of playing, it just means that every time you commit suicide there's a penalty. And now we come back to the age old argument that there's only 1% of the map where rotters can't be revived, if they hate being revived don't go to those places. As it stands enough people don't appear to want it so feel free to let it die unless the mood switches. --Kamikazie-Bunny 21:15, 9 May 2009 (BST)

Wow. I'm glad this is going to be left to die, because no matter how many times we say it, and how many different ways we word it, you're totally missing the point. Even though you just agreed with me, you still don't get it... And, playing a level 2 feral does NOT count as playing a dedicated zombie, sorry. And FTR no one is whining about rotters getting CRed in NTs, as you seem to be implying. Dedicated rotters accept that they may be CRed in NTs. But then after you misapprehend (and misrepresent) that rotters are whining, you tell them to stay away from the most strategically important buildings in the game??? If that weren't so contemptable, it'd be laughable. If you comprehended zombie play better, none of this would even be an argument. And, finally, "the mood won't change": this is a bad idea and it will remain a bad idea. Period. Now go back to calling people "emo" and pretending you're butch... --WanYao 21:56, 9 May 2009 (BST)

"... there's only 1% of the map where rotters can't be revived, if they hate being revived don't go to those places." You sure don't sound any kind of experienced to me. Please try again. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 22:03, 9 May 2009 (BST)

I accepted that as a typo and let it go. Even that latitude, however, doesn't change the fact that basically everything KB has argued in favour of this bad idea is totally fallacious. It's shit like this which is why some of us become "trollish" on Talk:Suggestions... the constant stream of newbie suggestions from people who can't be arsed to read the Freq Suggested page, interspersed with people who think they know shit and arrogantly ignore and dismiss what everyone else says as "just some passing emo mood swing"... And when it rains, it pours... --WanYao 01:35, 10 May 2009 (BST)

Iscariot expressed everything I was thinking while reading this suggestion. Think about the effects this will have on both sides of the game before suggesting something. --Pestolence^(talk) 16:02, 9 May 2009 (BST)

Combat Reviving isn't used for the AP drain on the zombie - just getting the zombie out as fast and reliably as possible. The extra 5AP to stand up from a fall just seems randomly punishing. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 16:29, 9 May 2009 (BST)

I might have supported this if it weren't for the fact that we need those die-hard zombies to have a 30-40% zombie population. This should technically encourage dual nature, but then you need to encourage survivors to play dual nature too, not just the zombies. - User:Whitehouse 17:08, 9 May 2009 (BST)

first of all, it's my first time posting... so be gentle with me please... *makes 'oowww' noise* I guess this suggestion does make a nice way of viewing the game... but as people know, being a SURVIVOR means you want to... well... surprise... SURVIVE. even if you were a undead, now you feel alive, or you wouldn't have the "adrenaline rush"... so... the chance on hitting someone outside wouldn't count as much as the chance to TAKE THE GUTS to jump from a REALLY DARN TALL BUILDING. let's face it, it's not like it's going to happen so often... tall buildings aren't that rare, are they? they are? oh christ... anyways... i don't know by you guys, but the chance of hitting someone while falling must be quite impossible, (as MythBusters told me so, lol). then you should redo it a little bit... like a little chance to take the guts to jump off the building and a even smaller chance to hit somebody... unless you're a total psyco who simply wants to kamikaze (erm... sorry... haven't seen your nickname untill now...). rotten brains really aren't that easy to get the shock from the falling... i mean... no neural system and all... so same amount of AP to stand up, i guess... no headshot for those. if the building is so tall it can kill somebody when u fall, it should kill you, even tho you use somebody as a "soft bed"... if you can survive from the falling, the person you fall over really should survive also... physics, sorry, bro. 4/5 of the HP seems too much for me... i mean... YOU @!@#!# FELT FROM A BUILDING!!! COM'ON!!!! that means if i'm a regular full-lifed person (like, let's say, an macdonald's eater...) i would get to 10HP... looks simple to me... let's grab a FAK and jump! if i got bodybuilding... well, u do the math, i'm simply not in the mood... feels like i would get it a little down a bit... with the same wounds effect... but... only SURGERY would fix me! com'on! IM BLEEDING! and i can't perform surgery while i'm BLEEDING AND DYING AND COFFING AND SO! zombies could easily access me while i'm on the floor also... and because i'm bleeding and my skin is like... ruined (plastical surgery?) i would be easier to be taken HP from (feeding). if i think in any more suggestions for your suggestion... well... i'll post it here. even tho the details are like... well... the general idea sounds fair. --HentaiX 06:11, 10 May 2009 (BST)

now THAT was emo --WanYao 06:20, 10 May 2009 (BST)

Yeah, I don't know, but there's been a surge of people around here with the SELECTIVE CAPS so that they can EMPHASIZE certain things and make themselves look silly. Now we've got tons of ellipses and more AOLspeak, too! --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 06:45, 10 May 2009 (BST)

I don't know what "AOLspeak" means. --WanYao 10:23, 10 May 2009 (BST)

I think the widespread acknowledgement of this idea being more retarded than a sysop justifies what I wrote and makes KB look like a brat. The only thing I will comment on is "probably not considered the other end of the spectrum where experienced player use this mechanic to abuse the system" - What? As opposed to survivor players who get PKed, stand up for one AP and stand up for another one AP after being revived? Odd how zombies standing after returning to their play style for 2AP is 'abusing the system' but a survivor doing it is all fine and dandy.... I think we have a positive trenchie diagnosis. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 07:18, 10 May 2009 (BST)

Well, let's look at Newbie Survivor A. Newbie Survivor A has only Free Running, but he wants to play in character so he spends the day scouting the area, and uses his last AP to get to a safehouse as any good survivor should. Unfortunately NSA doesn't know that this building is an NT because he doesn't metagame in any way, to the point of never looking at the wiki. Blah di blah di blah, zombies come in and kill him.

When NSA wakes up in the morning with his daily AP he has to stand up, this costs him 10AP because he doesn't have Ankle Grab, this is more than a fifth of his daily AP, a very damaging loss to him. Now his problems aren't over, he wishes to play in character and not buy any zombie skills or spend time smelling funny so he has to become revived to play in character. Now he can't revive himself, so he needs to find a revive point. Since he doesn't metagame, the only way to tell where the RP's are is by graffiti - first he has to find graffiti, then he has to get to the actual RP. I'll be exceedingly generous and say this process takes 10AP, something I consider a smaller amount than it would actually take him. Now NSA has to wait for a revive, which is even more AP gone to waste. A survivor then has to spend 10AP on reviving him, and NSA is forced to spend another 10AP getting up. Finally though, he can play as the in-genre character he chose to.

Since all you number crunchers love the equations, let's do the maths. 10AP to stand from death + 10AP to search an RP + 10AP to stand from the needle = 30AP to play as the in-genre character type. That's 62.5% of his daily AP to play as a survivor in a zombie apocalypse game! And because he doesn't want to buy the zombie skill Ankle Grab, there's nothing to stop you doing that to him again tomorrow, or the next day, or every day until he decides that he doesn't want to play a game where someone can spend 16AP to remove 30 of his (upon getting revived, he'll have 25HP), and with his remaining 28AP he can at most move 14 squares and then do nothing, or attack where he stands 28 times at 10% and hope he can get lucky, do some 1-damage punches and gain at least a little XP.

I say, zombies killing people will only discourage newbies from playing the game at all! Let's make a policy where zombies don't get to make survivors dead anymore. I hope you realise now how silly it is to complain about combat revives? --LaosOman 08:31, 12 May 2009 (BST)

Combat revives are still silly. And, I think it should more expensive for survivors to get revived - it's as you said, a zombie apocalypse game, not "let's have a party in Malton!" or "PKer Apocalypse." --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 18:10, 12 May 2009 (BST)

Look at your math from the newbie zombie point of view. No ankle grab + headshot = 15AP stand-up and happens almost everyday in many/most burbs. That leaves only 35AP and bugger all chance to do anything but scratch ineffectually at the barricades, without a stroke of luck they are probably not going to earn more than 10XP a day until they have at least 1 or 2 more skills. Your level one scout on the other hand will probably only make the "OOOPS, I camped in an NT" mistake once before working out where he is and thus will almost always be somewhere none descript and strongly (or better) caded for the rest of his UD life. A smart (and lucky) survivor can go months without ever dying or even seeing a zombie, while a zed will be lucky to make it over a weekend unless he is in the middle of a dead burb or huge horde--Honestmistake 19:34, 12 May 2009 (BST)

Not if the zombies break into his well-caded, non-descript safehouse. Besides, it's easy to avoid death as a zombie. Don't end your turn inside. Survivors will have no incentive to attack you, and you get to hear feeding groans. Honestly, why would you even want to spend time indoors? --LaosOman 17:50, 13 May 2009 (BST)

Ending turns inside as a zed is done for very good reasons.... here's 2: Holding the doors for more zeds to arrive. Ransacking and ruining buildings is more effective if you block attempts at repairing --Honestmistake 09:53, 14 May 2009 (BST)

Those aren't good reasons. Newbie Zombie A can't ransack anyway, and he wouldn't want to help other zombies at his own expense. The things you listed only matter to zombies in a group. --LaosOman 19:05, 14 May 2009 (BST)

Please play the game for another month or maybe more and come back when you have a little more experience. "Easy to avoid death as a zed" and "don't end your turn inside." Pfft. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 00:36, 14 May 2009 (BST)

Hey, I'm the one who's right here. If you don't want to die, don't end your turn in buildings. It's a policy I've applied for months (well, in the zombie periods anyway) and my zombie seems to be doing quite well because of it. You see, ferals have more use for feeding groans than for headshots. So please play the game for another month or maybe more and come back when you have a little more experience. --LaosOman 19:05, 14 May 2009 (BST)

Do you really want to get into a pissing contest over who's played the game longer? You're wrong. Completely fucking wrong. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 19:16, 14 May 2009 (BST)

Zombies don't care if they die or not. They're zombies. The only ones who "worry" are new players, and I think it's safe to assume that Gait/Grab get picked up by babah zambahs really quickly. Anyway, the AP cost of killing a zombie still usually outweighs their standing cost. The way survivors drain zombie AP is through cades, and the way zombies drain survivor AP is through cades, searching, and being killed. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 20:25, 14 May 2009 (BST)

If you're going to respond to what I said, at least make it relevant, you idiot. --LaosOman 12:13, 17 May 2009 (BST)

I did respond to what you said. I pointed out that you were completely fucking wrong. Anything else you say is flawed because the basis of your argument is faulty. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 13:10, 17 May 2009 (BST)

I would respond to Laos' points, but apparently some people don't think I can defend my own points, so I'll let them do it. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 10:16, 14 May 2009 (BST)

But I love laughing at the morons of the wiki! --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 20:25, 14 May 2009 (BST)

The difference is I'd have shut him down in two paragraphs. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 20:33, 14 May 2009 (BST)

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GPS Use - Display Suburb

Timestamp:	A Big F'ing Dog 18:28, 4 May 2009 (BST)
Type:	Improvement
Scope:	GPS Device
Description:	I suggest allowing people to use GPS units to inform others of their general area. Clicking a GPS unit would cost 1AP and turn on this feature. Clicking it again would turn it off. If you have a GPS unit your contact list would display the current suburb of any contact with an activated GPS unit in their inventory. Your own GPS need not be activated. This makes GPS units useful but risky to use, as they can attract both friends and enemies. However only providing the suburb, not the precise location, prevents them from being overpowered or overly dangerous. Zombies would be able to use this as well, but they'd have to acquire their GPS units and turn them on or off while living. They'd also be able to drop their GPS units to hide.

Discussion (GPS Use - Display Suburb)

Certainly allows for a lot of harassment. I'd say you should only be able to access it if yours is on as well. No free rides (positions). Then again, I'm not a fan of the idea in general. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 18:38, 4 May 2009 (BST)

I thought about that, but someone could just turn it on, check their contact list for someone's positions, and then turn it off again. Making it work for mutual contacts only is one option, but people use their contact list for enemies as much as allies. A complicated system to only allow certain color contacts would work, but I decided to follow K.I.S.S. Also to make it less "free" this could be dependent on both parties having a powered phone mast in their suburb.--A Big F'ing Dog 19:13, 4 May 2009 (BST)

"Last known location" could be one way to discourage people just flipping it on for a second. You ping, you're visible. Like active sonar in a submarine! --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 19:15, 4 May 2009 (BST)

True, but since the odds of the person staying in the same location the entire time your using your AP for te day is pretty high, that wouldn't matter so much.--Pesatyel 06:11, 5 May 2009 (BST)

Pinging isn't a bad idea, but can't be the only method or zombies wouldn't be able to use GPS units they carry. How about if your GPS unit is on it displays your current suburb in normal text, if it is off it just displays the last suburb it was on within in faint gray text. Dropping all GPS units would make it blank.--A Big F'ing Dog 15:02, 5 May 2009 (BST)

nothing against your general ideia... but for me zombies can't check a GPS once or awhile. in "realistic mode" they're kinda dumb... (unless they buy the skill memories of life...? or something...?) in UD mode (im not saying it isn't realistic... dont glare at me like that!), they can't see what they're carrying.--HentaiX 06:48, 10 May 2009 (BST)

Yeah, but they can still understand English and read, and even listen to radios. --A Big F'ing Dog 20:51, 15 May 2009 (BST)

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