UDWiki talk:Administration/Arbitration/Cyberbob240 vs 2 Cool

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Cyberbob240 vs. 2 Cool

This circlejerk association group have plastered their template on a number of pages which, although they have been created or worked on by 2 Cool members, are in the public namespace and/or cover topics which are group-neutral. For them to leave their (completely ugly no less) template on these pages is borderline spam, and completely inappropriate.

The page list:

The goal of this case? To have the template removed from the above pages and to have the group barred from placing it in inappropriate places in future. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 06:29, 11 October 2008 (BST)

How can you circlejerk with only two people?--xoxo 06:30, 11 October 2008 (BST)
By being very, very good at it. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 06:32, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Oh I think he's including our fanclub.--Nallan (Talk) 06:35, 11 October 2008 (BST)

I just hit save page on my post about this. Damn, you guys are quick.--– Nubis NWO 06:32, 11 October 2008 (BST)

FYI - this is very close to the DMZ case and they lost. Just something to think about.--– Nubis NWO 06:32, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Can you link to that case? --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 06:37, 11 October 2008 (BST)
It wasn't so much an arbies case but an [SA vs DHPD flame war] on the DH talk page. A few sysops stepped in and did agree that the DMZ category on every thing was excessive.* It's hard (but amusing) to get to the meat of the issue through the bitching, but TL;DR version is that DHPD had the DMZ tag on things not in DH, the sysops said that wasn't "fair" and that no other group was allowed to do that (the Dead had members banned when they made the City of the Dead category), the tags were removed and I think a page about the DMZ was added under DH space and brief mentions of it were allowed on certain pages. I really do try to "move on" from SA vs DH drama. --– Nubis NWO 06:50, 11 October 2008 (BST)
This is the original DMZ concern] brought up by AHLG.--– Nubis NWO 06:56, 11 October 2008 (BST)

Despite the recent attack of the oh-so-clevers by 2 Cool this case is pressing ahead regardless. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 06:50, 11 October 2008 (BST)

I'm sorry but i don't understand what you want. Not only do those pages directly relate to alim (they were created as offshoots of it) but they are now housed as subpages. What is your concern? --xoxo 06:55, 11 October 2008 (BST)
The fact that I'm almost certain that you're lying about more than one of those pages having been created as part of ALiM. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 06:58, 11 October 2008 (BST)
You started an arbies case because your "almost certain" about something? Wow. No all of these were created by Jed and nick to enhance ALiM, I'm ACTUALLY certain about that.--CyberRead240 07:00, 11 October 2008 (BST)
No, my being "almost certain" was irrelevant until the pages were moved to the ALiM namespace. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 07:01, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Well that's fucking A bob, but they were all created by Nick and I. I'll do a timeline for you. August 07 - 2 Cool created, October 07 - ALiM created, the months between then and now - all those small side projects created. Comprendé? Some of them have been edited by mulitple people, some by just Nick and/or I. The point is all the basic ideas for the pages come from 2 Cool and the team over at ALiM, and further almost all those pages are integrally related to ALiM and a number of it's locations. Hence the navbar and hence they are now subpages there. Stop saying random shit you are almost certain of (and entirely wrong about) and tell me what the fuck you want from this arby case now the situation has changed.--xoxo 07:07, 11 October 2008 (BST)
There is no fucking way the Great Fire page (at least) has been around for such a short period of time. GTFO. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 07:08, 11 October 2008 (BST)

I have no clue where to respond to any of this, but since my concern is trying to head off arbies (until we can get it fixed) then I will reply here. When I suggested moving the pages to subpages I meant future ones. The problem now is that ALiM effectively "owns" these "historical " pages. I swear the Great Fire one has been around for a while... Bob, what do you want as an outcome for this? I don't quite see where you are going with this. Help me out.--– Nubis NWO 07:04, 11 October 2008 (BST)

The ones they actually created can stay where they are. The ones they didn't (Great Fire probably being the only one in this category actually) need to be moved back where they belong. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 07:07, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Nubis, I can assure you, these were all created by Nick and Jed. I don't know if they were intended to tie them in with ALiM at the time of their creation, but eventually they all did, and they all flourished from there.--CyberRead240 07:05, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Great Fire has been around for awhile, my guess would be janurary or so. But it is certified 2 Cool created, i guarantee it.--xoxo 07:08, 11 October 2008 (BST)
I made the Great Fire pages. There was a deletions case over it.--Nallan (Talk) 07:09, 11 October 2008 (BST)
I'm looking through the Deletions archive and I'm not seeing it. Mind pointing me in the right direction? --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 07:16, 11 October 2008 (BST)
here It was about the category, doesn't prove anything, but it shows the whole "wiki vs 2cool" thing.--CyberRead240 07:17, 11 October 2008 (BST)
That has absolutely nothing to do with anything we're talking about whatsoever. I'm laughing at you for thinking it does, as the words "2 Cool" are not mentioned anywhere. Not once. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 07:20, 11 October 2008 (BST)
It's your word against that of people who have no real emotional involvement in this case (I actually don't, believe it or not; as far as my personal emotions go I couldn't care less about the outcome of this case) without any hard proof either way. If you can't produce any of said proof I suggest you cram it and nominate acceptable arbitrators. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 07:12, 11 October 2008 (BST)
I did find the deletions case here. From April at least. Can we do this: can we move back the great fire one (since it seems to honestly be the oldest and most linked) and come up with a smaller more focused nav template for it? Then in future you can make the other pages in your space and have whatever template you want.
The main reason I ask for this considerable compromise from the ALiM guys on the Great Fire is because it is a great portal into ALiM since almost any page in Malton can link to the Great Fire. If you compromise and put that one back with a more "neutral" template/links you may get more vistors to your project because of it.--– Nubis NWO 07:19, 11 October 2008 (BST)
I... suppose I would be willing to compromise on that front as long as the new template was strictly neutral. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 07:21, 11 October 2008 (BST)
We're discussing... And just for the record, I have people who can (hopefully) back me up as creator of that page, for instance Ros or User:Saromu. They'd remember posting on the talk page at the time.--Nallan (Talk) 07:23, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Personally, I hope that 2cool don't "compromise". They created the page for their own lulz and fostered it into its current existance. They shouldn't have to compromise with anyone.--CyberRead240 07:26, 11 October 2008 (BST)
They've already been more or less forced to move pages into their namespace. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 07:27, 11 October 2008 (BST)
It's simple - if they didn't move the pages to their name space then they were spamming the ALiM stuff (see DMZ). By moving the pages they can have whatever they want on it, however, if they start spamming links to the pages elsewhere then we will have an issue. --– Nubis NWO 07:34, 11 October 2008 (BST)
No, they wanted to have it in the ALiM name space from day one, they regretted that they didn't. But you can feel big for just one moment bob, congrats on your win ;)--CyberRead240 07:29, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Uh... what? They can't have regretted it all that much; it isn't like they haven't had nearly a year to fix it. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 07:34, 11 October 2008 (BST)
I wouldn't say regret, but i've always felt they would be better of as ALiM subpages, i just never cared that much and neither did anyone else - until now.--xoxo 07:38, 11 October 2008 (BST)
I'm not even sure how it go to this but it is totally irrelevant at any rate. We moved those pages to subpages of ALiM because bob was concerned that we were spamming the alim template on non alim stuff. By moving them there and then explaining the number of ways the pages were related to alim this should no longer be an issue. While no one can definatively prove who created the great fire page (sigh, thanks kev) i suggest you ask wan, boxy, karek etc who have all been involved with 2 Cool stuff and might remember it. I'm not sure who you think i would lie about this...--xoxo 07:24, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Great, before you were willing to compromise but now you magically aren't? Yippee. Nubis' suggestion has nothing to do with who made the page, you'll note. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 07:26, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Talk:Amusing Locations in Malton/Great Fire of 1912 - that is direct copy pasted from the old talk, check the histories there if you don't beleive it. It clear shows Nallan as the first editor of that page and also other users referring to us when editing the page. While i can't prove we created the page i can show you that we were seen even back in Feb and Apr as the operators of the page. My compromise extends as far as making the template substantially less intrusive and moving the pages to be alim subpages, i'm halfway through achieving these goals.--xoxo 07:28, 11 October 2008 (BST)
We aren't arguing ownership, we are asking for compromise on the template and asking that the most known page be put back (which would be in your best interest anyway like I said above) --– Nubis NWO 07:30, 11 October 2008 (BST)
They've already been more or less forced to move pages into their namespace. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 07:27, 11 October 2008 (BST)

Sorry, "we"? Thats wonderful that you have outlined what you want, but they created the page, if they want to do it, they can, if they don't, case closed and move on.--CyberRead240 07:32, 11 October 2008 (BST)

Yes, "we", Nubis and I are arguing more or less the same thing. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 07:34, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Actually bob is arguing that that page has been around for longer, which is offensive and undermines our argument that these pages are largely run by us and associated with ALiM, hence determining that is important. The old pages are now redirects which should have no influence on through traffic.--xoxo 07:34, 11 October 2008 (BST)
The age of the page and the length of time it spent not under the auspices of ALiM have not embedded it in people's minds as something that should be group-oriented. By leaving it out of your namespace and putting a more unobtrusive and neutral template on it you will attract far less ire. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 07:39, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Ok, try and comprehend this, extra chromosome or not, just try and comprehend this. Every page on that Navbar, was created by Nick and Jed, as part of the ALiM Wikiproject. So it has ALWAYS been part of ALiM.--CyberRead240 07:43, 11 October 2008 (BST)
har har har aneuploidy joke har har har --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 07:46, 11 October 2008 (BST)
so you understand then, good. I'm glad.--CyberRead240 07:48, 11 October 2008 (BST)
I don't know what ire is, and i'm not too sure i care about how much i attract. Neither am i all that concerned with whether or not people feel it is group orientated, the navbar has been there long enough and during that time the page has more of less function as an ALiM subpage. Not to mention that almost all the redirects come from ALiM locations that ALiM editors have added in. Thus traffic to the page comes mainly through ALiM stuff, and the cycle of life continues.--xoxo 07:41, 11 October 2008 (BST)

Current Situation

You moved a page from the main space via a redirect to your space. It wasn't a group page, but rather an article. That could be seen as vandalism. The core issue is this: if a page is in the main space but a part of the ALiM it can't be spammed with that large template. Period. Since we can't prove exact ownership of the page and the fact that it was in the main space for so long it's very questionable that you choose now to move it. This will all go away by putting the Great Fire back with a more neutral template. Not saying you need to get rid of the template completely or move the others back, but that is the one page causing most of the problems. It's because it seems to be the oldest and most known. The main issue has only been over the size and placement of the nav template. (that's what caught my attention before all of this started, by the way) --– Nubis NWO 07:58, 11 October 2008 (BST)

Thank you. That was all getting rather confusing. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 07:59, 11 October 2008 (BST)
The nav template will change, see my talk page. Also, please wait for people who were around at the early days of the Great Fire and can testify that it was 2 Cool created. We have already said we created it, and quite frankly considering we have been fully honest regarding this entire case, you should have no reason to doubt that. Putting the great fire back would be splitting up the various ALiM related fictional story pages when clearly they should all be grouped together.--xoxo 08:01, 11 October 2008 (BST)
I think if we can provide witnesses this should be open/shut. Can you wait that long?--Nallan (Talk) 08:03, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Have you taken him home to meet mum yet, bob?
Nubis, you can't prove ownership. You are right, but mostly all the signs point towards Jed and Nick creating this page. There is more evidence pointing to that than anything else. Either, you leave it alone and let Jed and Nick do whatever they want with their page, or you ask them nicely to try out your method of spicing up the page. You tell them you like their literary talents, and you find the page very convincing, you compliment them on their job well done, and you try your best to change their opinion on what they should do. It is their page, you should be asking them nicely, not telling them what to do.--CyberRead240 08:08, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Where am I telling them what to do? I've been asking for a compromise all along. I've told them what the situation looks like from the outside. And I did tell them the page is rather well known and would be a great portal/ad for their project. But thank you for your timely advice, Mike.
(edit conflicted from before) Thank you for seeing to the nav concerns. I understand your side in regards to keeping your ALiM stories together, but let's be honest. This is a wiki. It's a matter of a link on a page.
About witnesses, if you can find actual links in their contribs or something that substantial that would be great, otherwise it is just one person's word against anothers, you know? I would hope that you would be flattered that this particular article would be so well known! I hope this is worked out for both sides.--– Nubis NWO 08:11, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Its Michael, thanks, Nub.--CyberRead240 08:14, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Oh of course, we're very flattered, but also at the same time insulted that anyone could doubt we created it. I'll get to work on those contribs.--Nallan (Talk) 08:17, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Have you not been paying attention whatsoever? Nobody is currently doubting that you created the page; all Nubis and I are doing is making a suggestion that would harmonise the Great Fire page's image and its format. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 08:20, 11 October 2008 (BST)
I call Bullshit! You threatened arbies over it, unless you don't think we created the page on what grounds would you attempt to convince an impartial adjudicator that we must relocate the page?--xoxo 08:25, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Hence the word currently, dipshit. lrn2read --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 08:26, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Well if you don't want an arbitration case please keep your pathetic begging off this page.--xoxo 08:27, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Your consistent misunderstanding of where I'm now coming from is hilariously sad. My argument is that with the image most people have in their minds of the Great Fire page it would be prudent of you to move it back to the public namespace and put a more low-key template on it. I'm not disputing who owns it - and haven't been for some time, you pathetic excuse for intelligence. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 08:31, 11 October 2008 (BST)
wat....so this is your story until it is proved wrong, then once that happens, you will change it and litter your comments with insults? Excellent.--CyberRead240 08:35, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Mate i can take all the insults you can hurl at me, keep em coming, but get them off this page. Because no matter what you think would be prudent of me to do, it has nothing to do with arbitration. Unless you are suggestion we get an impartial adjudicator to also make suggestions of what i might perhaps be interested in doing? To me that just seems silly. --xoxo 08:38, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Okay, so would you be happy if the great fire page was moved back to Great Fire of 1912, however remained with the ALiM template in it's new slimline format (anyone with coding skills interested in helping out that'd be appreciated) and apart from the fact that the page is not in the ALiM namespace would be identical in it's format to the other ALiM subpages and would continue to largely fall under the jurisdiction of the ALiM team? And while yes, i am proud (and somewhat taken a back) that you feel the Great Fire page is as ancient as the wiki, i'm more concerned that you seem unwilling to accept that we did indeed make it and that we feel the ALiM navbar is an integral part of the page.--xoxo 08:17, 11 October 2008 (BST)
I'd be cool with that. (for the record, I do believe you guys - or someone with you - made it, but I can't just go OK. I sort of should at least ask for proof, ya know?) ALso, I posted a potential idea for a nav template on your page.--– Nubis NWO 08:25, 11 October 2008 (BST)
And just for the record, you are clear on what I mean about spamming pages with the nav. temp. and why I stepped in? Just make any future pages in your space and we'll probably never have this issue again. --– Nubis NWO 08:29, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Funny that you should be trying to pull that insult, Michael. You've been arguing 2 Cool's point for them everywhere the argument has even looked like it's taking place - in many cases more strenuously than they have. I suggest you retract that line of attack before you make yourself look like even more silly. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 08:20, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Not arguing for them, arguing against you. But lolk ill stay out of stuff if its giving you difficulty :)--CyberRead240 08:22, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Sorry, but that's one of the shittiest attempts to twist out of an accusation I've ever seen. Not going to fly, sorry. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 08:25, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Oh your a talented wordsmith if I ever did see one.--CyberRead240 08:26, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Such a shame you aren't. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 08:34, 11 October 2008 (BST)
No u--CyberRead240 08:49, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Hey look it's Bob. And he still remembers how to troll people. What a shocker.--Kristi of the Dead 08:45, 11 October 2008 (BST)
barely, our epic victory over him has caused my respect for him to plummet.--xoxo 08:50, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Right, because I'm so interested in how much some tard on the Internet respects me. Yeah, you just hit that nail right on the head with that one. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 09:07, 11 October 2008 (BST)

I'll arbitrate. Looks interesting. DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 08:30, 11 October 2008 (BST)

Uhhh, I think I already did... :) --– Nubis NWO 08:32, 11 October 2008 (BST)

Inexpert Great Fire Testimony

The great fire stuff (Created by J3D and Nick) Was created before february. IT was referred to a lot around the arkham sisters debate. The causes section of the article was created by me, much later. Before that it was just a line about a big fire, and the section referring to amusing locations being targetted. thanks --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 10:41, 11 October 2008 (BST)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they did create the page to fit in with their Arkham Sisters nonsense. Does that mean they own it? No. If you create community pages, you give them to the community to share and interlace with the whole Urban Dead, community created, backstory. Trying to make it an ALiM subpage is ridiculous -- boxy talk • i 10:55 11 October 2008 (BST)
Wat? Great Fire was way before Arkham Sisters. It should be an ALiM subpage, or directly related somehow, as they compliment each other perfectly.--CyberRead240 11:04, 11 October 2008 (BST)
If Jed, Ros, and I are the only ones to have edited the page, surely we have the right to pull it from the mainspace and put it under ALiM. If none of the editors object then what's the problem?--Nallan (Talk) 11:12, 11 October 2008 (BST)
That's not really a trend we want to start or condone. I hope you can understand why. Also, in this case, the time lapse from creation to relocation is problematic. I would hate it if author's moved all of the pages they wrote under their own space. It wouldn't be a wiki so much as like personal blogs. --– Nubis NWO 11:28, 11 October 2008 (BST)
They moved it because they were not allowed to keep their template.--CyberRead240 11:32, 11 October 2008 (BST)
As read said, we only wanted to move the page because the way we had had the page for some months suddenly became an issue (brought up by a certain user with an axe to grind, but that's another story). It just makes sense now to leave all that stuff in the ALiM namespace, grouped together. I assure you the template will be less intrusive (btw Nubis i was thinking we'd go for a complete redesign, although i plan on wikiing as minimally as possible in the coming month) however it will not be group neutral for reasons outlined above, and on my talk page.--xoxo 11:45, 11 October 2008 (BST)
No axe to grind J3D, I happened to notice the template on one of the pages (I forget which) and didn't think it appropriate. Get over yourself. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 11:48, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Not to mention that you seek out bob's attentions. I reckon it's because drama creation is good for advertising too -- boxy talk • i 11:53 11 October 2008 (BST)
Can you not see what a mess this would make of the wiki if everyone who created backstory and guide pages started putting their own advertising templates on them, and claiming them as their own? And anyway, you guys are always trying to claim that ALiM itself is a "community project", rather than your own group page that you can do what you like with. I remember the whining that I didn't join in on the "community voting" on it's talk page, when I arced up about that edible locations in malton stuff. Make up your minds, do you want a group page, or a community page. If they're community pages, to be interlaced with locations, suburb and backstory pages, then stop with all the cross-promotional advertising bullshit... if they're your own group pages, then keep them off the community areas of the wiki -- boxy talk • i 11:45 11 October 2008 (BST)
This is a good example. This was created by Nick (in the last 2 months) under community space, but clearly on something ALiM related. So, now are you guys going to pull this to your space (please don't), why wasn't it made in your space originally? Why doesn't this have the template? Pages like this do make your case for keeping The Great Fire and the other ALiM pages in your space a bit weak. I don't really care what the final outcome is, I just want some consistency. Either all pages are under your space or they are public. (oh and I want categories on these pages, but that's just me).--– Nubis NWO 13:00, 11 October 2008 (BST)


Jed and I have discussed and we have decided that we will allow for the Great Fire page to be moved into the mainspace, BUT it must keep the template on it, which we will be working on to make less intrusive - but it will retain links to the other projects - bar the featured locations, which will be removed - and also retaining the link to the 2 Cool group page, thereby crediting us with the concept. We feel this is fair, as it has always been on the page, we created the page, and because it links with the other projects.--Nallan (Talk) 12:40, 11 October 2008 (BST)


I'm not going to bother reading everything before it because tl;dr. There are community pages but there are also group pages. If someone came and fucked with DORIS' New Baghdad page I'd flip a shit. If someone fucked with Red Rum's Siege of Jerusalem page they'd be pissed. If someone messed with the DHPD's DMZ page they'd be pissed. My point? The Great Fire is a group sponsored page. --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 22:43, 11 October 2008 (BST)

Those are radically different situations. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 22:52, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Ok. The RRF history pages for the 4 central suburbs. If anyone changed those dramatically the RRF (lolwut) would be mad. --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 22:54, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Still a different situation. The Great Fire page spent a long time not obviously (to the uninformed observer) part of ALiM. This would be a complete non-issue had 2 Cool pulled their fingers out and moved it before, but as it stands the page shouldn't be in their actual groupspace. By all means link to their space, however. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 23:07, 11 October 2008 (BST)
I think the giant, ugly navbar that's been at the top of the page since before I can remember sort of gives away the fact that it's part of ALiM.--Nallan (Talk) 23:39, 11 October 2008 (BST)
It gives away the fact that ALiM claims ownership of it. It does not give away the fact that ALiM created it. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 23:46, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Well you did say, "part of ALiM", (not that I would nit pick) ;)--Nallan (Talk) 23:56, 11 October 2008 (BST)
Also bob you've said already that you accept we did create it. Look we've offered to restore it to the community namespace however it will keep a modified navbar (that will hopefully be more attractive if we can find people with the required skills) that links to the other projects. Agreed/not agreed? --xoxo 00:38, 12 October 2008 (BST)
Agreed. Kind of sad that it took you so long - and so much stress - to come to an agreement, but I suppose that's what I get for dealing with fleas. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 00:41, 12 October 2008 (BST)
Nick offered the same thing last night and you chose not to respond to it so meh, you can deal with the amount of time. The pages are moved and the template has been shrunk slightly pending total redesign in the near future.--xoxo 00:48, 12 October 2008 (BST)
Now let's all go get wasted!--Nallan (Talk) 00:54, 12 October 2008 (BST)
This is a lame precedent to set. Alright, the fire page could come under your wiki-group set-up, but things like Guide:Colloquialisms (which has since been moved into the ALiM space), at least, should be things you do as part of the wider wiki community, not claimed for yourself, for self promotion, and interwoven into a separate, loosely relevant subsection of the wiki, controlled only by those who agree with you, and the way you do things. Even wanting to keeping the great fire page as obvious ALiM property is one of those little things that I think makes you, J3D, unsuitable for a sysop position. You put your own group and individual ego before the good of the community instead of donating the pages to the community. Having your advertising spam (nav bar) plastered over the top of it makes it unsuitable for other wiki editor to reference from non-ALiM pages. Why do you need to have it there? Self promotion is the only reason I can see -- boxy talk • i 02:33 12 October 2008 (BST)
They have every right to self advertise on the projects they have made. 2 Cool is a wiki group as well as and in game group. All the pages are donated to the community, anyone can edit them. Hell, some random user came along and made an Amusing Locations in Monroeville as a result of ALiM. He had never edited ALiM before. Boxy, your short sightedness and inability too look past personal grudges is what I think makes you unsuitable for 'crat, and without your prior experience, you would probably get zero votes this time around too.--CyberRead240 02:41, 12 October 2008 (BST)
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