Suggestions/10th-Mar-2006

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  1. These suggestions are now closed. No more voting or editing is to be done to them.
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Untroubled Sleep v2

Author-retracted, forgot a detail. Sorry to those who just voted. My bad. --John Ember 01:41, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

Untroubled Sleep v2.1

Timestamp: 01:19, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
Type: Civilian Skill
Scope: Survivors
Description: Summary: Survivors with the skill "Untroubled Sleep" may regain AP beyond the 50 AP limit if resting in certain buildings which are 1) powered by a generator, 2) barricaded to Very Strong or less, 3) free of zombies and 4) only moderately populated (20 survivors or less).

Background: Engineers trapped in Malton have begun repairing the city's climate control systems. As long as there is a generator to power them, certain buildings' HVAC mechanisms can provide a relatively comfortable environment. Barricading a building too heavily obstructs the ventilation systems, as does overcrowding. Thus, only the bravest of hardened survivors will feel comfortable enough to rest up inside such attractive targets.

Sleepable Buildings: Arms, Cinema, Club, Factory, Hotel, Junkyard, Library, Museum, School, Warehouse. Other buildings are too large to climate-control with a generator.

Mechanics: AP regenerates at the normal rate. If the building conditions are met -- right building type, running generator, barricades no stronger than Very Strong, 20 survivors or less inside -- a survivor with Untroubled Sleep can regain up to 55 AP maximum. However, as soon as the generator is destroyed/runs out of fuel, the barricades are strengthened beyond Very Strong, zombies enter the building, the total population rises above 20, or the player leaves the building, the bonus AP regain ceases. If the survivor has more than 50 AP at that point, he will not regain any further AP until his AP drops below 50 or he re-enters the requisite Untroubled Sleep conditions.

Awareness: Players with Untroubled Sleep will see messages regarding a building's suitability for rest upon entering the building or logging in. Unsupported buildings will provide no message at all. Likewise there will be no message if zombies are present.

If all requisite conditions are met: "This looks like a comfortable place to rest."

If there are too many survivors: "This would be a comfortable place to rest, if it weren't so crowded."

If the barricades are too strong: "This would be a comfortable place to rest, if the debris could be cleared away from the air vents."

If there is no running generator: "This would be a comfortable place to rest, if the climate control system could be turned on."

Questions and Answers
Q: "Why offer this?"
A: Untroubled Sleep allows survivors to gain AP beyond 50 while encouraging them to stay in targets attractive to zombies. It will encourage more reasonable barricading and population distribution.

Q: "Won't survivors just sleep in a Very Strong building to build up 55 AP, and then retreat one block away to an Extremely Heavily Barricaded building?"
A: I'm sure they will, but at least for a few hours they will have put themselves in a more vulnerable position. And moving into another safehouse will of course cost some of the gained AP.

Q: "Should this be a high-level skill?"
A: I tend to think it should be available to anyone, to ensure that both Hunters and less-experienced humans will be found in "sleepable" buildings. Players who are concerned about the reduced safety of sleeping in a VSB building need only skip the skill, or buy it but take no advantage of it.

Q: "This raises the survivor AP limit higher than that for zombies."
A: I'm absolutely open to well-balanced ideas which bump the AP limit for zombies, but I think the mechanics should be different enough on that to require a separate suggestion. Also, consider the AP zombies will save if barricades are kept at lower levels throughout the city.

Votes

  1. Keep - Author vote. I'm a level 37 zombie, and I approve giving humans incentives to keep barricades at a moderate level. --John Ember 01:26, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  2. Keep - I like this idea, but get rid of junkyards. They're out in the open, so they won't have a ventilation system; and I don't think a junkyard would be a great place to sleep.Dickus Maximus 06:43, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
    • Re - Please sign your vote. That's a good point; I was under the impression there was a sort of shed sitting in the junkyard, but maybe it's just the perimeter fence that gets barricaded. --John Ember 02:12, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  3. Kill - Why do people always choose to ignore the Suggestion Dos and Do Nots? Let's see...ah, there it is. LEAVE YOUR OWN AP ALONE. --Matsu Chan 02:06, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
    • Re - As a zombie player, I did leave my AP alone. --John Ember 02:09, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  4. Kill - It's a great idea, but just leave the ap at were it is!--DicktheTech 02:57, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  5. Kill - Not a good idea. The poor zombies will have to deal with a room full of people who get an extra kit. And why don't zombies get more when they are in a cemetery? They feel comfortable there. This ranks amoung the 'Memories of Ciager' suggestion. 343 03:04, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  6. Keep - Normally, I don't like skills that increase max AP, but this one seems to be well-thought out and not too powerful. --John Rove 03:17, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  7. Keep - 1. The suggestion guidelines are only guidelines 2. This idea is +5 AP capacity that's been castrated as much as it's possible... You need a skill, a specific type of building,which can't be too populated, too barricaded, or disturbed by Zs, then you need a generator, fuel... and to wait till you have 55 AP (which IMO can be stupid as a survivor). Please, this is really not likely to break anything! --McArrowni 03:31, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  8. Keep - I like the incentive to keep the building at Very Strong. It makes the survivors better targets, good tradeoff. -- Cinnibar 03:48, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  9. Kill - I would just stand in a EH till at 50, then use on AP to move to the 'restful' building for the last 5. If I could be bothered. And being in a VS for 2 1/2 hours... next to no risk. --Private Chineselegolas RAF 04:22, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  10. Kill - I liked the idea a fair bit, but... Chineselegolas has a very good point -Torfin 04:30, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  11. Kill i didnt think I would say this but unfair for the zombies. --Deathnut RAF 04:40, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  12. Keep - I agree with McArrowni, the limitations on this bonus (skill reqd., building type, two items, and undisturbed rest) are signifigant enough that these AP aren't freebies. Kramer 04:47, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  13. Kill - It just doesn't suit me much. Generally, leave AP alone. It's in the guidelines and whatnot. Bentley Foss 05:14, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  14. Kill - Question about the mechanics. If I am a survivor with this skill, and I log off in a suitable building with 19 other occupants (thus 20 occupants total) what happens if person 21 enters searches a bit and then leaves the building? Would the server just check if the space conditions are correct when it increments the AP or would it try to keep track of the conditions constantly?--Jim Stevens 05:23, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  15. Kill - It seems a little complicated, and a bit of an uncessary edge in the AP department for Survivors. Also, I can most certainly say that I would be fairly troubled sleeping in small groups in poorly secured buildings. Brownie points for an inventive concept, though. --Voyager I 06:33, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  16. Keep - Balanced suggestion. I like how it incites people to sleep in less fortified places. To Bentley: Okay, say this with me. "They. Are. GUIDElines." Guidelines means they are not rules, and may be gone against if done so in a reasonable manner, which I think this suggestion does. --Pinpoint 06:48, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  17. Keep - I like it. Best AP changing suggestion I've seen. --Guardian of Nekops 06:49, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  18. Kill - I have to agree with Bentley Foss, generally messing with AP is incredibly difficult. In order to change to max. AP and recharge rates successfully, a suggestion would have to be very carefully worded. You've come very close with this one. Sadly I think that a well thought out AP suggestion would have to be so complex, that the complexity alone would doom it. Also the possiblility of abuse will always be there as well. --CPQD 07:07, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  19. Kill - your trying and i love you for that. you've come closer to finding a way to raise the ap cap then ever before. you are the yuri gagarin of suggestions. sorry for no caps. i'm typing one handed... cause i'm on the phone... shut up. -Banana Bear4 07:28, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  20. Keep - that is good --revoso 11:44, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  21. Kill - Humans already have a huge AP efficiency advantage, and this boosts it by 10% for lazy survivors who dont log in for a little extra time each day. --Grim s 14:30, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  22. Keep - First off, this doesnt unballance the AP its 5 ap, what can you do for 5 ap? Nothing much maybe do 5 more searche before leaving... AP isnt survivor favorable, please explain to me how it is? Survivors have to spend a a 3rd of their ap searching and finding nothing if not more, they have to spend 10 AP a day roaming around for a place that isnt HB. Zeds just have to go somewhere and stand there for 5 months on end, with no fear of death. stop argueing that 1 side is more or less ballanced. its equaly dangerous for both sides. --Kirk Howell 14:46, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  23. Kill - Small groups of zombies don't often attack Heavily barricaded buildings, as you know. So you want zombies to break into their preferred target (VSB buildings) and find themselves faced with a bunch of survivors with an extra 10% life? No. --WibbleBRAINS 15:19, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  24. Keep - I agree wiht mcarrowni, i dont think this give the survivors enough of an advantage to be called unfair. --Innervision
  25. Keep - This is a good idea. It gives a small benefit, but only for players that have already saved up the full AP anyway, and stay for hours in a less-defended building. I think the small AP boost is balanced by the increased vulnerability to wandering Zombie hordes. BTW, I think those of you who did the usuall knee-jerk "Oh No! AP!! Evil!!!" response need to rethink your answers, or just stop posting - you're not helping anyone. --Norcross 17:09, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  26. Keep - Screw you killvoters, I liked it. Two thumbs up, way up! --Matson Jade 17:56, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  27. Keep - I liked "Travels Light" a little more, but whatMcArrowni said. This is a more nurfed version of "Rest In Peace", but for survivors - which I see some of you voting Keep on that Killed this because it's too powerful?? --Blahblahblah 21:00, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  28. Keep- It's good, and it still keps things balanced. --Ju Ju Master 22:16, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  29. Keep - The fact that this would encourage people to populate today' empty buildings encourage me to vote keep on this. As a zombie i am tired of breacking cades to find no one inside, as a human i am sick of watching 500+ humans inside a single building and nothing happening at all. --hagnat talk 00:45, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  30. Keep - Hell. This will benefit the zombies at LEAST as much as it will the survivors. Generators are already beacons for rotters. You know how PDs are a guaranteed restaurant? How people will, absolutely, positively, always hide in PDs despite all contrary logic? Well, this is a PD with VS barricades and a neon sign out front. All we need now is a similar skill for zombies...graveyards perhaps... --Snikers 06:25, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  31. Kill - So a zombie gets headshot, thereby giving him a maximum of 44 AP when he stands up, at which point he finds out that the building he just spent the other AP to bust into has survivors with a higher maximum AP than he could ever hope for? No. — g026r 06:35, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
    • Re - Do you realize how much less AP it takes to crack open a VSB building than an XHB? It's much more than 5, or even 10. It's probably about 20 AP less of work. If survivors seeking Untroubled Sleep arrange to keep more buildings at VSB, then I'm all for giving them a few more AP -- they'd be saving me some too. --John Ember 00:43, 12 March 2006 (GMT)
  32. Kill Survivors already have the AP advantage. Not that I'm complaining about that, because zombies have their good points, but there's no reason to widen that gap--Mookiemookie 07:07, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  33. Keep - Sounds usefull --Lord Evans W! 07:09, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  34. Kill - My currently only character is a survivor and would benifit from this. However, AP should be left alone (otherwise a month down the line we'll have Zombie players complaing 'Hey! How come they get 55AP'.) Ontop of that I can see it being open for abuse - people sleeping in EHB, logging in during the morning to move to a VS building and then at lunchtime to play. There are also a lot of people that I see every day sleeping in VS buildings anyway (especially new players in rescource buildings becuase they don't have free-run). --Tethran 19:21, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
    • Tally - 18 Keep, 16 Kill, 0 Spam --06:21, 27 March 2006 (BST)

Hit List/Safe List

This suggestion has been Duped. Contact Categories--Deathnut RAF 18:36, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

Masquarade

Timestamp: 08:20, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
Type: Skill
Scope: Zombies (high-level loners in particular)
Description: I'm a bit new to this game, I'll admit, but I'm eager and full to bursting of ideas I'd like to contribute (and not afraid to get shot down in flames, perhaps just as importantly). This is a little idea for a zombie skill that might make the lives of lone wolf zombies more interesting, and maybe add a little flavor to life in the "safe" neighborhoods. This would be a later teir Zombie skill, requiring Memories of Life and Lurching Gait (or only the latter, if skill trees cannot be combined). Zombies with this skill have learned (or remembered) how to immitate the walk of the living. Although the performance isn't quite flawless, it's done well enough to be convincing from a distance. When a survivor (but not another zombie) sees a zombie with this skill in adjacent squares on the area map, the zombie appears as a survivor, using it's survivor name. If they occupy the same square, the zombie will appear as normal. In order to prevent horrible abuse of this skill, I'd say that zombies traveling in groups of more than 10 (or another number, if so desired) appear as normal zombies (regardless of whether or not their companions have the skill). Flavor wise, their immitation isn't polished enough to disguise an entire shambling horde. Practically, it's to prevent the skill from being horribly abused and having huge mobs of "survivors" getting a little too much leeway, and keep it oriented towards lone zombies presenting an insiduous menace in otherwise clean streets. Survivors could, of course, add known Masquaraders to their contact lists, which can be explained as easily as the locals learning to recognize individual zombies despite their ploys. Theoretically, survivors could also simply check the profile of survivors in question to see if they had the Masquarade skill, but they still wouldn't know if they were genuinely alive, and anyone high enough level to be taking this skill probably has just about everything. Besides, it's not much more of an advantage than Zombies being able to supernaturally identify Zombie Hunters. At any rate, that sums up my suggestion. I turn it over to ye masses now. Criticize, suggest, lynch, it's all in your hands now. At the very worst, it will be a learning experience.

Votes

  1. Keep - I'm the Author, so naturally, I like it. --Voyager I 08:20, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  2. Kill - Hey, its good your here with new ideas, you might want to check out the talk page for help polishing these, rather than just tossing ideas out, you can get your ideas in a really nice format, all clear and such. I don't know if there's a way to make this idea work, but the talk page is where to go for it. -Banana Bear4 08:27, 10 March 2006 (GMT) edit I realized whats wrong! anonymity for zombies is key. this would circumvent that I believe. and I think haviing the limit of fake harmanz is no good. If I saw three hunnie survivors in front of caiger, thats clue enough.
      • Re - It's not really meant to be used in places where survivors obviously shouldn't be, such as anywhere near Caiger Mall. Rather, it's for use in places where Zombies might not be expected. In such a case, it just seemed appropriate to put some form of limitation on it, to prevent entire hordes from rampaging through soft neighborhoods. I doubt it would really come up that much, and I'd also imagine people would learn pretty quickly not to trust groups of 50+ "survivors" all standing around outside the Police Station, so maybe you're right on that count. My apolagies for the rough grammer, by the way. It's kinda late where I am. In my defense, you should have seen what it looked like before I proofread it...Thanks for the feedback.--Voyager I 09:28, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  3. Keep - For some reason, I rather like this idea. Agree with Bear that the presentation isn't the best, but then, this isn't Composition 101, I'm not handing out grades. Well, other than this Pass/Fail vote. --Reverend Loki 08:41, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  4. Keep - All those pesky scientists who keep reviving my zombie character might actually let him play as a zombie for a while being able to see his name. Also would mean you wouldn't be sure of that person in the corner. --Private Chineselegolas RAF 08:48, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  5. Kill - Not bad, though it could stand abit of polish, maby some alterations. Maby zombies below a certain health cant be disguised (due to gaping holes in their chest/multiple bullet holes), a lower limit in the number of zombies who can be disguised (five sits better with me), or there could be a zombie hunter skill that sees through it. If this dies, I would like to see a V2 --Zeek 09:45, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
      • Re - I agree again with the Polish, but it's too late to change now. I thought about a Zombie Hunter skill to overcome it, but seeing as how everyone and their little brother has Zombie Hunter skills, it seemed like it would pretty much make Masquarade useless. I'd also disagree with wounds, since Zombies have the same hp as survivors. Again, feedback is appreciated.
  6. Keep - 'He's coming to get you, Barbara!' -Oppenharpo 10:42, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  7. Kill - I vote kill because it needs more limitations, but it is not all bad. --Cinnibar 12:38, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  8. Kill Violates Zombie anonymity. Each survivor name is a link to the zombies profile. If the ruse is going to work it needs to link to the profile, and if it does that its a kick in the balls for zombies. Also: "OOH look, that rotting bag of flesh with its skin falling off is walking like one of us, i now magically know its name and everything about it, including the fact its a zombie but at the same time i am stupid, so i will believe it is human, despite the fact it is threatening to harm my "manbags" and "ram" my "arz" with its "B!G banana"." --Grim s 14:24, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  9. Kill - I admit it isnt all bad. it just seems lame, i think id be able to see if it was a zombie. and the minute i walk up to him i would know its a zed. The idea of zeds pretending to be humans has been done , but in the context of the game it doesnt work, nor would i want it to work for that matter --Kirk Howell 14:34, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  10. Kill - I love the idea, but it doesn't work in UD (at least as written). Grim summed it up perfectly... names link to profile which point to "this guy is a zombie". As written this violates zombie anonimity too much, but if there were no links to profile in this game, I woudn't mind. --McArrowni 16:24, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  11. Kill - Not bad. Needs some polish in the ways mentioned previously, but a later vbersion will get a Keep vote from me --Jak Rhee 17:25, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  12. Kill very well thought out for a noob but just not for this game.--Deathnut RAF 18:19, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  13. Kill - Interesting idea, but not for this game. -- - Unsigned vote. Remove the strike when you sign it. Velkrin 01:25, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  14. Keep - great idea for zeds with brain-rot --revoso 21:23, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  15. Kill - I would suggest making it only in buildings or when alone outside of a building above VS. I would also suggest that you have it so that the profile is changed to look likea survivor if there is less then 5 other people in the room. More then 5 and it looks like a zombie profile. It should also look like a zombie if it attacks someone. --ramby T--W! - SGP 22:30, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  16. Kill - I'll vote kill until further clarification. What do other zombies see when the masquerader walks by? Do they see the harman, or the zombie? As a zombie, I'll rush to jump on any tasty harmanz I see walking by. I'd be very disappointed to find that I left my barricade bashing to chase after another zed.--Jim Stevens 22:37, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  17. Kill - See arguments above. Velkrin 01:25, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  18. Kill - Don't make it excessively difficult for survivors to find zombies. Part of being a zombie is the fact that you're going to look/smell/etc. like a zombie, no matter what. Bentley Foss 06:50, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
    • Tally - 5 Keep, 12 Kill, 0 Spam --06:19, 27 March 2006 (BST)

Street Cars (revised with extended Q&A)

Timestamp: 13:14, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
Type: Item/improvement
Scope: Survivors, street squares
Description: OK, I know I said adios yesterday, but I think a lot of people voted kill for the wrong reasons. If you didn't read this suggestion yesterday, please read the first section (it's more or less the same). If you did read it yesterday and voted kill, please scroll down to the Q&A section, where your problem may well be addressed. Also please read the Final Summary, which outlines why this suggestion is not unbalancing but could add fun to the game while staying in the spirit of zombie flicks. If you still think the game is better with most survivors free running everywhere and never setting foot outside, then that's your call, but I must respectfully disagree.

This suggestion follows from these two observations: 1. Many people want vehicles (though, admittedly, some are dead-set against).

2. Street squares are currently the red-headed stepchild of squares, although in many zombie movies they are the setting for much of the most tense action.

Consequently, I humbly make my own addition to the much-reviled canon of vehicle suggestions.

1. Streetcars are only available on street squares. The search chance is 20% (set deliberately high, otherwise they're just not worth the trouble), representing the player trying many vehicles do find one that runs. A fuel can must then be used to initiate streetcar movement.

2. Streetcars allow movement for no AP cost in street squares only. In any other square, movement cost is a normal 1 AP. Players in a car can only move or leave the car.

3. Streetcars can move through empty squares or ones containing survivors only, but immediately crash on entering a square with even a single zombie. Yes, this is not totally realistic, but makes a lot of sense from a play mechanic point of view. Crashing costs 15 damage (same as flare) to both the top zombie in the stack and to the player and gives no experience to either'.

4. Cars immediately cease to exist the moment the player crashes or leaves the car. This represents zombie damage, other players stealing, whatever. When you leave it, it's gone.

5. Players in a car are still visible, and can be attacked by Pkers on the same square. If a zombie moves into a square, the car is destroyed automatically, but no crash damage results. Again, not totally realistic, but the best compromise from a play mechanic perspective. (The alternative, that a zombie destroys the car with its first attack, and the car can move out of the square before this, is an option but a little more difficult to code and confusing).


Q. This is unfair to zombies who can't move as far

A. Say this one with me people: a zombie does not care how far his target can move, only how far away it is right now. That is, a zombie hunting for a harman has to move the same distance to his next target irrespective of its speed; the only thing that matters is the dispersal of his targets. It's true that a survivor driving a car could hunt for 60 or 70 spaces, as opposed to a Z hunting for 50 spaces, but really, if you can't find a zombie after 50 moves a few extra isn't going to help. After searching for the car, the survivor will not have any extra APs to attack with unless the zombie he finds is really far away. Also bear in mind that that survivor with a few extra moves to find a target has already spent far more AP to get a fuel can, and will spend more healing himself if he chooses to crash. Furthermore, cars might encourage people to roam further, improving their dispersal and thus reducing the distance to the next target for a hunting zombie. The fact that a survivor can move a few more squares (not make more attacks, just move further) after already spending APs on fuels cans and searches does not disadvantage a zombie. The only case where it would would be one where a survivor has decided to target a specific zombie at a known location 50 squares away, and already has a fuel can; in this case he might get a couple extra APs to attack, but I seriously doubt this has ever happened in the history of the game. Summary: a zombie only cares how far it is to his next meal, and cars will not affect this distance one bit.

Q. A weapon with 100% hit rate for 15 damage? WTF?

A. 15 damage to both zombie and survivor, after using a fuel can, and searching for a car. If I had spent days accumulating an unlimited supply of fuel cans and FAKs, I could do the following damage (assuming 5 APs average search time, 1AP to move into the zombie):

(50/6)*15 = 125 damage in a day, not including time spend to heal thyself after crashes.

By contrast, loaded shotguns would do:

At 65% hit: 10 * .65 * 50 = 325 damage At 40% hit: 10 * .40 * 50 = 200 damage At 15% hit: 10 * 15 * 50 = 75 damage

Loaded pistols:

At 65% hit: 5 * .65 * 50 = 162.5 damage At 40% hit: 5 * .40 * 50 = 100 damage At 15% hit: 5 * .40 * 50 = 37.5 damage

Axe would do (3 * .4 * 50) = 60 damage every day; that's half the damage, without spending weeks getting an inventory full of fuel cans and FAKs (to heal the ram damage). And remember, no XP for this damage. Thus no sane person would consider this an effective weapon; while you could do serious damage, you can do damage far more efficiently with even the humble axe. The only reason you would do it is for roleplay purposes: destruction derby!

Summary: The shotgun, axe, and pistol are all more efficient ways of doing damage, and will also give you XP. The final nail in the coffin to this argument: revive syringe.

Q. You get infinite free movement!

A. No. Street squares are only a small fraction of the game squares; even if you stuck to them where possible, and were untroubled by zombies along the route, you would only every be able to move around 70-80 squares, not including the AP cost to search for car and fuel can. The car is only AP-efficient if you are travelling a very, very long way, and even then will only gain you around 10-20 squares or so. Since it already only takes 2 days to cross the map, this really isn't significant.

Q. Just walk.

A. By walk you almost certainly mean "Free Run". This is boring, hinders zombies, and is not in keeping with the flavour of the game: how many zombie flicks choose walk over drive?

Q. It will mean people spend more time off the streets, not on them

A. Put down the crack pipe, hippie. Thanks to the random search effect, this ability will not help people get back their safe house; if you've spent 30 APs hunting and killing, would you search for car to get you home? No, you'd walk. It lets people roam further, but that won't get them off the streets faster unless they are going to a specific location within the (relatively small) margin where a car would help. It is more likely that people will hop in a car to go to somewhere new, thus increasing survivor dispersal and helping zombies. In summary, while in very specific circumstances it might get a survivor off the streets faster, it is more likely to increase dispersal and (most importantly) break the free-run-all-the-time habit that most survivors use to get to new areas. So no, you are not only wrong, your conclusion is the exact opposite of the logical one.

Q. What about driving into survivors, a Driving skill, etc.

A. These are all fine extensions, but would complicate an already complex suggestion. In the extremely unlikely event that this passes, please suggest after the fact.

Final Summary: The car in this suggestion is not a useful weapon, and makes very little difference to survivor movement except over the longest distances. The following are the only reasons I can think of to use the car suggested here:

1.If you want to move a really long way and not do anything along the way. If a survivor is going on a long journey, that is really no skin of the noses of local zombies; 50 squares is vastly too far to follow, so 70 squares makes no difference. Long journeys into unknown territory are a staple of zombie flicks, and do not hinder zombies at all; they help by increasing survivor dispersal. 2.If you want to run destruction derby guilds. The car is not an effective weapon, but it could be a fun one. Aren't games about fun? Or are they about free running across an entire city and not exposing yourself to a single zombie? 3.As an extension to point 1: point-to-point racing. See how many APs it takes to get from one place to another, but watch out for zombies on the way!

If anything, this suggestion helps zombies more than hinders them, as it gets survivors out of the free-run-everywhere mentality, encourages them to make riskier journeys, increases survivor dispersal (reducing the distance between harman targets), and adds another layer to strategy with the zombie street blockade.

Votes

  1. Keep - Author vote. Does not give infinite moves, is not a useful weapon, but is featured in almost all zombie movies, is fun, and helps free people from the shackles of Free Running. -Oppenharpo 13:14, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  2. Kill - That's stupid anyway. There is always road near any building, so why you can move for free only in street squares? --EnForcer32 14:20, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
    • Re - Nothing in this game is perfectly realistic. It's called game balance. -Oppenharpo 16:20, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  3. Keep -- It costs AP on any building square to ballance the suggestion, dont you read. think of it as.. there are baricade pieces torn around the building or piles of dead corpses cloging the ally, whatever lets you sleep at night. gee. Ok now for my Real coment. This is great. It will do for me what you intend. Get me out of my safe zone, i'm more likely to go farther if i know it will only take me a day to get there and not 2 or 3. --Kirk Howell 14:25, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  4. Spam - Vehicles. --Grim s 14:27, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
    • Re - vehicles are not spam unless you can prove they are rule-breaking. Thimgs that have a similar name to other things are not spam unless the content is the same. Things you don't like are not spam. They are kill. -Oppenharpo 16:20, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
    • comment - i have to agree this is not spam but not for this game.--Deathnut RAF 18:22, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  5. Kill - Your Q&A answers are just more justifications, not really satisfactory answers. After 5 AP finding a car, a survivor could still go right across the city, WHAP into a zed for 15 guaranteed damage, finish him off with shotguns, find another car for 5AP and drive home in time for tea with AP to spare. And even if you didn't kill the zombie, you've nerfed his Scent Trail skill by disappearing over the horizon. --WibbleBRAINS 15:31, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
    • Re - 5AP to find a car if you have a fuel can. A whole bunch of APs to cross a city (unless you are playing on some special map the rest of us don't have). Drive into Z, you have now spent around 30 APs and lost 15 health. After spending another 5-10 to kill Z, are you really going to spend another risky 5 APs to search for a vehicle (if you have a second fuel can), drive off, find a VS building and Free run from their to your safe house? No. Hit-and-run is not AP efficient due to the cost of search, fuel can, and heal. -Oppenharpo 16:20, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  6. Kill -- Oppenharpo, please don't tell voters whether or not they should be voting Spam. If in that persons mnind vehicles can NEVER be modified enough to be Keep-able for him, then he can by all means vote Spam on vehicle suggestions. Anyway, I vote kill because I just dont like this. Especially the using a car do do damage. The arguement on its effectiveness not withstanding - I personally see it more on the unbalanced side than you do - I just don't like anythign with 100% accuracy. PERHAPS, I'd consider it more if the weapon companent was removed entirely, btu evben then it gives survivors a huge movement advantage over zombies who already are slow movers until they get Lurching Gait. --Jak Rhee 17:32, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  7. Kill - Actually I think that Kevan at least designed the map with cars in mind, the car shops and auto repairs are abundant, I've looked at the map, and most of the time if you only can drive about a suburb or three before being closed in. a lot of the times a carpark or an auto repair would open up some more movement choices, with wasteland also taken into account you could go everywhere I think. All this is just for information. Now for your suggestion. Unlimited movement is very bad, besides the fact that we'd have players driving around in circles for hours making an ass out of themselves, fast strike teams in cars would be very destabalizing. The weapon aspect is also troubling me. I always liked the idea of being able to go to one place in the map to another fast, but free form traveling would be too hard for the zombies to deal with, unlike a set point to point travel. This just isn't a workable suggestion as it stands. Next to suggestions changing AP changing movement probably are the hardest to do right. I don't think anybody ever truly succeeded.--Vista 18:04, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  8. Kill not for UD.--Deathnut RAF 18:22, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
    • Re could you justify that a bit please?
      • Cars are a good idea but I just dont think that they are a good addition to UD. of corse IO have seen keven add things that were rejected so in the end it's up to him.--Deathnut RAF 21:19, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  9. Keep - For the reasons I stated in previous "Keep" Vote, the fun and variation, (I play both Zombies and Survivors - like many people). I for one would use them - with varied characters for differing reasons above. I like both the flavour and the game play KyleTravis 19:20, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  10. Keep - I love this. Good for flavor. --Hook hand 20:13, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  11. Keep - For pete's sake people. He's nerfed it to the point of uselessness. it's essentially a flavor addition at this point. Quit holding on to preconceptions about cars in UD and actually look at the suggestion. it's excellent. he's put a lot of work into it, and it works.--'STER-Talk-Mod 20:52, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  12. Keep - As voted in the previous suggestion. If a Harman wants to waste his AP on this kind of game flavor, let'em. It seems that a percentage of player do want a vehicle of some sort and this is the best I've seen. I also like some of the fun activities that could be planned with this kind of suggestion (car rallies, destructo derbies, drag races, etc.)--Jim Stevens 22:55, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  13. Kill - Still don't like the free move, even if it's streets only. Velkrin 01:27, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  14. Kill - Is this really changed from last time at all? I don't like free movement really.. even limited.. though this is better than most car suggestions. -Banana Bear4 03:09, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  15. Kill - I'm not a fan of players being able to get something for free, with the exception of dropping inventory items. As this stands, someone with a paid account could spend all day driving around street squares and never run out of AP. Bentley Foss 06:55, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  16. Keep - Sounds fun --Lord Evans W! 07:21, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  17. Kill - There needs to be some kind of limit on this, even if it's not one AP per block. I'd suggest a "gas meter" that kicks in once you've fueled and entered the car. Once you've driven, say, 15 spaces in the car, it's out of gas and has to be refueled or abandoned. That would allow the car to provide the longer trip you're looking for without providing players with unlimited, free movement around the city. --John Ember 01:25, 12 March 2006 (GMT)
    • Tally - 7 Keep, 9 Kill, 1 Spam --06:18, 27 March 2006 (BST)

Memories of Life Improvement

Timestamp: 14:17, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
Type: Skill
Scope: Zombies
Description: I've been doing some thinking, mostly about Memories of Life. An entire skill that lets you open doors? To me, its always felt quite worthless.... sort of. See, there's no reason for individual zombies to get it- in a Horde, there only needs to be one Zombie to get through the closed door, then everyone hops inside and grabs munchies. Granted, for the soloist its damn near essential, but how many solo zombies are there anymore? My 'give it about thirty minutes of thinking' fix is that a zombie with memories of life can still use his melee weapons with some percentage of his melee weapon skill as a survivor. For example, if you have Axe Proficiency and Hand to Hand Combat, you have something like 40% to hit with your fireaxe. We'll pretend and set the percentage as "One half of your chance to hit if you were a survivor, minimum of 10%" because, lets face it, there is no movie I've seen yet where a Zombie is a blademaster and can flit about like mad... which gives you 20% chance to hit... which is right where I want it to be interestingly.

This seems like a fairly stupid suggestion at first (believe me, I was saying "Man thats dumb, why would a zombie get this? Death grip and Tangling Grasp alone are better and do just as much damage, man, Gorth, you should shut the hell up and choke"), but... it serves as a good standby until you can grab your zombie skills for those people who were unlucky enough to switch sides.

Alternatively, this could just be an entirely new skill. My humorous suggestion is "Suck Less With Sticks", but if a serious one is warranted, "Bludgeonify" is my current favorite. Clarification: Zombies with Memories of Life could still open doors. I meant that just opening doors was a sucky ability, and not worth 100 XP for just that ability. Its nice, yes, but not comparable to other skills. Sorry for the mixup.

Votes

  1. Keep - Author vote. --Gorthaur 14:17, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  2. Kill - I understand opening doors is a stupid skill,and equaly stupid is thinking a closed door will do anything, it mearly exists in the event that a low level survivor can hide inside a building and be prtected against a low level zed. But Suggesting sombies use weapons, is just not right. --Kirk Howell 14:29, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
    • Re - Melee weapons. I don't think zombies should use guns. Well, except for pistolwhipping. Everyone loves pistolwhipping. Seriously though, its a zombie coming at you with an axe... at less than half the accuracy of his hand attacks.... I dunno. Doesn't inspire fear in me. However, it does make me feel nice knowing that if my firefighter alt dies, his proficiencies aren't totally wasted, and will help him get XP until he is revived or he buys up Vigour Mortis and his combat abilities. --Gorthaur 14:41, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
      • Re-- Haha good point if my character dies I run for a revive point. Its a nice idea, just now you have to change the whole inventory system. Isnt it enough that only zeds can make use of the flak jacket? Its giving them things things that are useless to survivors but now useful to zeds. its a little too much :P i'm sick of my survivor skills being used only by zombies. and combat doesnt need to be improved for zeds any more ,what with the new grip skill zeds are already deadly in a pack plus there isnt much point to it. if it passes its not bad just to me it sounds dumb.--Kirk Howell 14:54, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  3. Killl There are times when as a solo zombie I've broken down barricades but been trapped outside and forced to wait for some other zombie to open the doors. Every zombie should want that skill. --Jon Pyre 14:55, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  4. Keep It's only narrowly useful, and only to powerful classes, but it's better than nothing. I HATE the fact that zombies need a skill for something so minor as oppening a door. --McArrowni 16:42, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  5. Kill - I don't think it's especially bad, but with the recently improved hit ratios for the newly dead, the usefulness of this skill is marginal, and I'd rather stick with the purity of no-weapon zombies unless a really pressing reason is given. -Oppenharpo 17:15, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  6. Kill - Memories of life is a left over of the early days before barricading was implemented when a closed door was all that seperated the tasty survivors from the hungry hunter. So the skill was needed to balance the sides. With barricades and all the other changes it becomes more and more of an obsolete skill that mainly serves as a XP drain for beginning zombies, removing/changing it is a very good idea. Changing it to make zombies resemble survivors more isn't. Already both sides tend to look quite similar. I suggest we all go find a different purpose/Add-on for memories of life that makes it an addition for zombies once a again in terms of game mechanics. - Jon pyre? how about it?- (about your -rhetoric- question How many solo zombies are there anymore? About 10.000. there are +13000 zombies standing 4000 non reviving corpses, and about 2500 members of zombies groups listed. So even with Mrh? cows and unnamed followers taken into account the fast mayority of zombies are still Feral.)--Vista 17:19, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
    • Re - Hilariously, I intended that bit as sarcasm. Even for the loner zombie, it isn't a tremendous issue, since if the place isn't barricaded, its likely the door is open anyway. What if the skill also gave zombies the bonus to using crowbars, as if they were survivors? That would retain the ability (without demanding a vast compensation for those who've invested in it), fix some of the problems with barricading (admittedly, you have to actually have a crowbar)... I dunno. Again, this was my thirty-minutes-of-thought fix, and mostly because my firefighter just died and I am sad that though he knows how to swing an axe like a true man, once zombified, he's worthless. Insert sad face here. --Gorthaur 18:00, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
    • I did acknowledge rhetoric bit, didn't I? (Insert smiling face here) But I do think that It's a bigger deal for Ferals then you think (certainly low level ones) now with feeding groan the protection it gave is essentially gone. So all it does is limit zombies without any benefit for survivors. I thought of your suggestion as well, Giving zombies a better change against barricades would be popular with them and hugely onpopular with survivors, and taking into acount that removing the need to open the door would already weaken their defences, a bit hard to get in to peer reviewed barricades are vey hard to get right mechanically speaking. And considering the skill tree it should be a more humanizing trait as the abilaty to rattle comes next... (I'm off to think some more... No reason I suggest so little, I kill my own proposals before I even submit them)--Vista 18:25, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  7. kill I have two ferrals and there are many more than you think. this skill is very important. even in a horde the one with MOL may run out of AP leaving you stuck out with a closed door. think about this. --Deathnut RAF 18:31, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
    • Re - I... wasn't saying it should no longer let you open doors. *edits main suggestion to clarify* It would provide this ability in addition to the power to Bludgeonify survivors with crowbars/lead pipes/baseball bats/axes. --Gorthaur 19:18, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  8. Kill - If you die as a survivor (even with maxed out melee skills), your starting zombie hand attacks are better (going off the 1/2% to hit). Plus, I like zombies using hands and teeth, not wielding weapons... Just become a PKer if you want to kill survivors with weapons. Also, ditto Deathnut, a lot of us still run ferals. --Blahblahblah 19:26, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  9. Keep - I would like to axe those firefighters back. And, hey, the velociraptors in Jurassik Park bought Memories of Life and i dont see them complaining about how useless this skill is. Grant, in the other hand... --hagnat talk 00:52, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  10. Kill - I say opening doors is more than worth 100xp. Although in Zombi 3, there is a totally sweet scene with a machete wielding zombie that uses one hand to hold up his pants or something. -Banana Bear4 03:13, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  11. Kill - Remember, it's not just the destination, its the journey as well! Yes it sucks when you start, but then once you have mastered all or most of the skill tree and you take pride in your accomplishment.--Jim Stevens 04:54, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  12. Kill - As above. Plus, zombies fighting with weapons is just bleh, to me. Bentley Foss 06:57, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
    • Tally - 3 Keep, 9 Kill, 0 Spam --06:17, 27 March 2006 (BST)

Drag Corpse

Dupe - Peer_Rejected_Suggestions#Drag, Peer_Rejected_Suggestions#Drag_Survivor and Peer_Rejected_Suggestions#Drag_Corpse.

With 8 votes out of 14 that call it a dupe, it's time to remove it.--Vista 00:04, 13 March 2006 (GMT) }}

Group buildings

Timestamp: 21:28, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
Type: Add on
Scope: All groups of 10 or more
Description: Always wanted an HQ but spray cans leave you wanting more? Well here is the add-on for you! When 10 or more survivors of the same group assemble in a single building they can change the name of the building to a set list of 3 names
  • The _____ HQ
  • Home of the _____
  • The____ building

Also as soon as they change the name they would be able to edit the inside description as well these changes would stay in effect until another group out numbers the first group in the building so if there were 10 People from one group and 11 from another in the same building the building would revert back to its old name until the group with 11 claimed it. If there are more zombies in the HQ than group members than the HQ also reverts back to its normal type. The building being an HQ has no effect on search rates Note All curse words would be blocked. and only warehouses junkyards and other non frequently searched buildings could be used as HQs meaning NO you cant use the PD as a base sorry but to much abuse there as newbie’s wouldn’t know if it was a PD or not. also only one HQ at a time per group is allowed. Malls cannot be used as HQs.

This idea makes the game more fun. HQs can be spray painted normally and give 2XP with tagging if it’s not your own HQ. At least 10 members of the group must be present to make an HQ. for groups with insanely long names The building would on the out side read 'A HQ building'

Votes

  1. Keep-author vote I think this is a good idea how about you guys?-Deadeye207 21:28, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  2. Spam - Renaming buildings is confusing for navagation purposes. Also, even if swears aren't aloud, I still do not want to see The OMGLOLURMOM Building on my map. --TheTeeHeeMonster 21:35, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
    Re if you can find 10 people to be in the "OMGLOLERMOM" group or make 10 chars and move them all to the same spot Note the sarcasm you deserve to have your own building.
    • I will also note the inability to use wiki listing format, the lack of capitalization, and the misquoting. Someone could quite easily zerg those characters, or find 10 idiots. It's a big internet, and as you have just demonstrated, some of its users aren't too bright. --TheTeeHeeMonster 22:50, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  3. Kill Its not an awful idea, but renaming buildings is a big no. Instead add a line in the description that says "The ___ are currently headquartering here". --Zaruthustra-Mod 22:09, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  4. Spam - I also do not wish to see the "OMFGLOLURMOM!!111!!!" building on my map. I also dislike the breaking of the suggestions page. Next time try to come up with something that is less open to abuse and something taht will not break the suggestions page ok? - --ramby T--W! - SGP 22:14, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  5. Kill - As others have said: renaming buildings is just confusing, and a bad idea. — g026r 23:52, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  6. Kill - What Zaru said --McArrowni 23:58, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  7. Kill - See: Confusing arugment, add in the fact I'd rather not see something along the lines of Home of the Crotch of Doom. Velkrin 01:31, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  8. Kill As Teehee said, when the only thing the map consists of is names if they changed it'd be hard to find your way around. A better solution is for survivors to just spraypaint "The Malton Ninjas HQ" on the side of the building. --Jon Pyre 01:41, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  9. Kill - As above. Bentley Foss 07:01, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
    • Tally - 1 Keep, 6 Kill, 2 Spam --06:16, 27 March 2006 (BST)

Bounty Hunter

Timestamp: 22:37, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
Type: Skill
Scope: Survivors
Description: The new skill will be called Bounty Tracking. This new skill can be purchased under the Military catagory. When you buy this skill you can track a PKer. This is how it will work: If someone harms or kills you, you can track them, and if someone kills another person in the room, you can track them. The tracking will be similar to Scent Trail and it will show the current position of the PKer.

Votes

  1. Keep - Author vote --TheBigT 22:37, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  2. Kill - Too open to abuse. Does nto fit in the game taht well. - - --ramby T--W! - SGP 22:56, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  3. Kill - You've been killed, have spent the past several hours lying around as a corpse, and suddenly you know where the person is? (Even scent trail "loses" all the scents when you die.) Or someone harms you, or harms or kills someone else, and you suddenly know where they are, despite the fact that you don't have tracking devices, incredible scent detection abilities, or spent any AP following them? Yes, I know, don't vote entirely based on flavour, but I just can't figure out the story explanation that would make this fit in-game. — g026r 23:48, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
  4. Kill - Better tracking for humans than zombies? Magically finding the trail after dying? --McArrowni 00:01, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  5. Kill - first add 3 things 1.the person has to be under 25 hp 2.the person must be on your contacts list 3.the person has to be no more than 5 blocks away --revoso 01:37, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  6. Kill - I would love a skill that would let me find the necrotech clown who stuck a rev syringe into me as well. That would make it easier to put an axe in his back...--Jim Stevens 05:05, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  7. Kill - Too open to abuse. Being able to track someone after they've shot you in the face and you've wandered around eating brains and eventually gotten revived...well...that just doesn't seem right. Bentley Foss 07:03, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
  8. Kill - You are not psychic. --John Ember 01:16, 12 March 2006 (GMT)
  9. Kill - I would love this idea, but it's just too open to abuse.--The General 20:31, 12 March 2006 (GMT)
    • Tally - 8 Kill, one author keep.--The General 20:31, 12 March 2006 (GMT)
  10. Kill -Not a good idea. Pk'ing might be an annoyance, but when ten people can track the same person (who might be a legitimate bounty hunter, or simply a Pk'ed person who got his revenge) things always go amiss --Vista W! 00:56, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
    • Tally - 1 Keep, 9 Kill, 0 Spam --06:16, 27 March 2006 (BST)
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