UDWiki talk:Administration/Arbitration/Karek vs Nallan and J3D

"as he live 150km's apart its hard to co-ordinate"
I loled... you should try out this new fangled thing called the interwebs ;) -- boxy ^{talk • i} 11:23 11 February 2008 (BST)

Why can't i stop looking at this image ? --People's Commissar Hagnat ^{[cloned] [mod]} 12:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

...i have no defense to that so i'll just say SHUTUP BOXY, i hear you respond well to boldcaps. And haggy, i'm sorry to say under Karek's new regime won't be allowed on the wiki anymore...--Jed 21:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

That pictures getting a bit old, isn't it?--Seventythree^Talk 09:25, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

It's boobs. So..... no. Haha.--MichaelRead 09:27, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

getting old? i check this page every day now just to cheer me up--Scotw 18:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

"I loled... you should try out this new fangled thing called the interwebs ;)"-boxy
You should try out this new fangled thing called manners. It means we can only communicate and coordinate effectively when we're both online, which isn't very often and does make it a little hard seeing as we're not on the internet 24/7. Think before mocking next time.--Nick 05:27, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh well, I thought it was funny -- boxy ^{talk • i} 10:00 15 February 2008 (BST)

you know what else is funny? .--xoxo 10:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Views

come on nick...get this sucker rolling.--GomerPyle41 09:38, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

to be fair, if they delete your stuff or get you in trouble or ban you or whatever, then they need to do so to everybody who has ever made anything up. What you deem as inappropriate may not be the same as what I feel. Therefore these silly mods should make themselves a nice list of what is allowed and what is not allowed. Otherwise you really have every right to do whatever the fuck you want to any page. I lolled a million times at what you have done for most descriptions. It enhances my wiki experience. Nuff Said.--MichaelRead 12:51, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

i do agree that the wiki is not a place for excessive lewd and vulgar behavior, but i am a bit surprised that this is even here in the first place, the edits to Cockburn Plaza Railway Station in my opinion were quite amusing, and i did not see anything that would cause a problem. however in the new arkam edit i think the line deranged semi-sane state due to excessively burnt cocks. did go a bit far. just give them a warning and be done with this, why do we need arbitration for such a matter?--Scotw 20:10, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I too found the article funny until the burnt cocks part. --People's Commissar Hagnat ^{[cloned] [mod]} 10:33, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

These aren't meant to be amusing pages, they are first and foremost for factual information on the location/suburb. Sexual content does not fit with the style of the wiki, keep it to your group pages -- boxy ^{talk • i} 11:20 11 February 2008 (BST)

IT IS A GAME ABOUT ZOMBIES. IT CANNOT BE FACTUAL, YOU DINGUS.--MichaelRead 07:12, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh no, he must be serious! All caps... and bolded! I know it's a difficult concept for you to grasp, but this is a wiki about the game. You can indeed have factual information about the city geography, conditions and state of play... and I'm pretty sure burnt penises arn't included anywhere in this the game. You want to make jokes about cocks, fine, do it on the amusing locations page, not suburb pages -- boxy ^{talk • i} 11:51 12 February 2008 (BST)

No, you.--MichaelRead 09:21, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Let me get this straight. Boxys and Kareks problem with this is that what Nick and Jed have said doesn't fit into the context of the game. That this is a game where you kill zombies (and people) in some rather violent ways, and that there is no room for any kind of sexual reference. Ok, that's not weird at all. Violence is more appropriate then sex... I see now.

Don't you find something wrong with that opinion. The idea that a necessary aspect of human interaction is deemed inappropriate but shooting someone in the head with a shotgun is ok. That killing another person is ok. For you to suggest this would mean that our society is somewhat desensitized to violence. For you to suggest this would mean that you accept violence over sex. That violence is the more appropriate action in our society. No wonder the world is always at war.

Another point you have raised is that this is a game that kids play. Quote: “Kids Play This Game, Kids Edit This Wiki.” We know that. We are aware. But, and this is a big but ( no immature reference intended), kids hear about, talk about, and learn about sex all the time. Everyone knows the classic “Where do babies come from?” Kids are taught about sex at an early age. Here we start ‘officially’ learning sex education in Yr 7. That’s at the age of 12. And I would honestly be taken by a massive amount of surprise if they didn’t already know basically everything by then anyway. Kids see, hear and read about sex on TV, movies, games, music and in books. Its everywhere; sex is big in the world, and the idea that it is inappropriate to be displayed on a wiki page, Cockburn Plaza Railway Station, that practically no-one visits is ridiculous. Note that the Cockburn Plaza page has a huge hit tally of 365 times compared to the Current Events page which at time of writing had been accessed 57, 106 times. Anyone else see the difference? Not the most highly visited page on the wiki, and I’d bet most of those hits had stemmed from people checking it out after seeing the Arbitration case.

You say that what Nick and Jed have written doesn’t fit into the style of the wiki. A wiki based on a game. A game intended to entertain. That’s what games are about. Entertainment. It’s what every form of media is about. All Nick and Jed are doing is bringing this entertainment to the Wiki. They are adding both depth and humour to an otherwise pointless page, that evidently, hardly anyone ever visits. You say that what they have written isn’t factual in the context of the game. They are creating the facts. No others exist. The fact that they are trying to be amusing whilst doing so is a bonus. It makes the game, the history and the wiki all the more enjoyable, all the more entertaining.

As you can tell I feel somewhat strongly on this issue, and I hope I have convinced some of you. Hopefully this issue is resolved quite quickly. Thanks for reading.--Scurley7 12:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

First off let me address one thing really quick. American culture has long held the view that violence to a certain degree is less vulgar than sex, that's not saying Hostel or Saw are better than a softcore porn, quite the contrary as those obviously pass that certain degree, it's that there's no way to tastefully describe sex beyond not actually mentioning it, violence happens, every day it's public, it's personal, sex isn't. I'm American but, that's not my problem with it. My problem is it's unneeded, just like if there was a description of graphic violence in the location description that wasn't necessary and that the author couldn't show that it was(as is obviously the case here, just check the last two lines of his addition in which he actually says it has nothing to do with the place name). It's tasteless and forced, they aren't doing it for the sake of entertainment their using entertainment to justify having done it, two very different things. If it was for the sake of entertainment they wouldn't be here complaining about it being removed and almost all of the text in their "argument" would have been unnecessary and pointless.

I'll also point out that comparing this to Current Events is a bit misleading as Current Events is the 61st most visited page on the wiki which may not seem like a lot but when put into perspective there are nearly 62,000 pages on this wiki. It should probably also be mentioned that there pages like Revification, Action Points, and Brain Rot don't even rate in the top 100, Multi abuse doesn't even make the top 500, and Cathedral doesn't even have 360 views(btw, Cockburn has risen to 380 in the time between our comments) and are all considered essential wiki pages, number of views has nothing to do with what are important wiki pages, which is a large portion of the defense and semantics used in both the arbitration case and your statement, it's pretty obvious that you(or, J3D which I am assuming from the New Arkham thing) wouldn't, say, view Pederacy a justified subject commentary on the Cathedral page, this is no different.--Karek^maps?! 09:16, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Hello,my name is FATCHICK. And I'm a long time player of UD. I storngly support players such as Nallan and J3d, as it is my opinion that without the humourous background that they add to UD the game would not be nearly as successful as it is today. I believe that anyone can make a shoot 'em up zombie killing game, but what makes UD special is the entertaining community and funny characters that make the game so fun. You may say "But FATCHICK, little kids are also part of the UD community, they can not be exposed to such filth", but to that I say "If little kids are on the internet, whats to stop them from googling somethign filthy? All they have to do is type a dirty word into a search engine and they will find things much more vulgar than a reference to a sperm bank.

I would just like to bring to the attention of all those involved in this case that there is a a real place called Cockburn Avenue that I pass every day. Near the sign for the street there is a bus stop where a great deal of small children get on and off. I have frequently heard many similar inuendos and jokes that you may consider "bad taste", but, every single one of the jokes has come from one of the little kids. I believe that if you're going to have a place called "Cockburn" anything, there are bound to be jokes attached to it, the word play isn't that complex. I am glad that Nallan and J3d decided to add some depth to the humour (ie. sperm bank joke) rather than just crudely poke fun of the name. My point from all this is... little kids will think of these things all by themselves, any word made up of any such word as 'cock' is free game in my opinion. I think the the mods should just relax and let people have thier fun, and maybe worry about the more vulgar aspects of UD such as people that decide to call themselves ridiculous names such as 'bonerman' and the like (as pointed out on the arbitration page by Nallan and J3d).--FATCHICK 10:21, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

What a shock, another BBK that agrees wholeheartedly with his mates (talk about conformity). Anyway... would your mainstream newspapers print articles containing jokes about sperm banks and burnt cocks when giving the background to stories about your cockburn avenue, Fatchick? Because that's is the tone that the suburb pages (especially the descriptive parts, like the history section) should take -- boxy ^{talk • i} 12:03 15 February 2008 (BST)

It's not a suburb page and why does it have to be in newspaper form?--Nick 12:23, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

It is a suburb page, and those sections are supposed to be a mainstream, uncontroversial description of the suburb. There is plenty of room for tasteless humour on group, user and wiki group pages. Leave it there -- boxy ^{talk • i} 13:23 15 February 2008 (BST)

Damn, now we have to overhaul every single location page that doesn't represent your local newspaper. Boxy, who gives a fuck if we were all in the BBK together. We are like minded people, thats why we were in a group together. If there was a group of know-all, pathetic wiki-crawler nerds then you would probably have a lot of backup in most situations(Most Sysops anyone?). Regardless of who throws their weight into this, they are doing so because they care about it. Oh and btw, don't reference "American Culture" and say that this game should rely on the principles of a fucked up nation that cheats themselves into justification of their actions. America = total wank, and you only justify that every time you spew more selfish, self indulgent vile that you regard as a valid point. You have always been an absolute asshole and I have never seen you help anyone who didn't rim you for a few weeks beforehand. Boxy for demotion.--MichaelRead 05:15, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Troll in your own userspace, not here please.--Karek^maps?! 05:18, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

But seriously, a railway station isn't a suburb and the New Arkham edits were long ago laid to rest. So again, why newspaper format?--Nick 05:29, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Mostly because building level pages, while not as popular, are still important and essential to the wiki(it's why there was such a large effort to not only create all of them with acceptable and easiliy usable "stub" content but also the effort put into all the various building/suburb related info like the various suburb maps.) Oh, and as has usually been the case it's an evolution of the Lexicon, makes things a little more interesting. Might be worth starting a locations Lexicon round or something, although I'm not overly certain how the "game" is suppose to work.--Karek^maps?! 11:22, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Hey, I know this is all over but I'd like you, Karek, to clear up a point you've made. How can you say that the number of page views is not representative of the pages importance? Obviously pages that are the most visited are those that are the most important to players. If a page lacks a significant amount of views obviously it's not a very important page. Also, the pages you all quoted have hit numbers of at least over 5000. Revivification has over 22000, Action Points over 16000, Brain Rot over 33000 and Multi Abuse being the lowest at over 5000. Cockburn doesnt even have 500. And Cathedrals??? Who cares about Cathedrals? They've only recently become useful since people realised that they are good RP's. Maybe I've missed something from your arguement, but to me it seems somewhat flawed. Looking forward to your reply.--Scurley7 15:18, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

It's importance vs. popularity. Action Points is obviously an important page but it doesn't get as many page views as many groups do, pages that are essential to the information providing feature that this wiki is suppose to be are important pages, Cathedral is one of those cases, people go there to find out more information about Cathedrals. Something like Queer Jew is popular but as far as important goes it's towards the bottom of the barrel as it's not informative and isn't a game resource. Just because a lot of people have seen it doesn't make it important or even useful for that matter.--Karek^maps?! 15:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I guess your right, Karek. I mean, before Nick and Jed edited the Cockburn Plaza Railway Station page, I visited it every day to read up on the current events, history, news and guidelines given to me by the little stub....oh wait...there was no information in this little page for as long as I can remember. Cockburn Plaza Railway Station is worth very little in importance. Very little. The only reason it got any hits was because of this arbies case, or people thinking a name like COCK BURN was funny. Every reply you have ever given has been full of flawed bullshit.--MichaelRead 00:35, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

That's your opinion but, the stub was made for a reason.--Karek^maps?! 00:42, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Proposal

If Karek thinks that quoting a fictional source detracts from the page and its integrity, maybe he should get his head out of his arse and realize that this game is about fucking zombies. Well not having sex with them. But you know what I mean. If these articles that Nick and Jed have created are to be forcefully removed, I vote that Karek himself should make up a brief history on these buildings that are as equally entertaining, that add the same amount of flavour and stick to his guidelines of what is moral. A controversial page is a thousand times more enjoyable than a shitty, boring stub. Thoughts?--MichaelRead 11:09, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

My thought is that sexual content on location/suburb pages is totally out, and on group pages it is restricted to the non-explicit. Just because you can put anything up, doesn't mean you should -- boxy ^{talk • i} 11:20 11 February 2008 (BST)

The beauty of the wiki is that if you don't like something, go right ahead and change it. This is a waste of everybody's time. Nick and Jed provide amusing content that, on the whole, contributes greatly to the entertainment value of the wiki. This is, after all, a game. Of course it is here to be amusing. If I wanted boring factual stuff, I would do my job during the day instead of browsing the wiki. So, I suppose that since this is the proposals section I should get to it. I propose the Jed and Nallan be given some sort of a commendaton/recognition for their contributions. - Headshot Hal 21:12, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Now Fluck Library does a better job of what you were doing, but would probably end up losing the part about the erotic collection. --Akule ^{School's in session.} 16:47, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I quite like Sexylegsread's proposal, lets see a morally acceptable, yet hilarious description for cockburn plaza that is fun the whole family. I suggest something about a suicidal and pyromanical rooster (following the games theme of violence and gore, that we all agree is acceptable for the gaming pleasure of young children).--FATCHICK 10:21, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Suicide is not morally acceptable, at least not in the US of tightassrestrictionsonwhatsmorallyacceptable. Check this.--xoxo 08:57, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Let it go, I was making a point based on someones statement when I brought the American thing up.--Karek^maps?! 12:52, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Karek Is A Twat Poll

agreed?--GomerPyle41 06:06, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

agreed. To be honest, his rebuttal was poor and did not provide any punch. He just came across as a know-all. So yes, twat.--MichaelRead 06:09, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

It's because he knows more than you. Don't be angry that you're not as smart as he. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS CRF MOB pr0n} 06:18, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Sonny is also a twat. Oh and by the way, don't insult the intelligence of others. Thats what Finis does. If you knew a thing about most of the people who are active in this case, you would eat your words pretty quickly.--MichaelRead 06:25, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I know Karek. And when Finis insults the intelligence of others he usually does it with poor spelling and grammar. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS CRF MOB pr0n} 06:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I am glad other people see that. Fair call for standing up, I would have done the same thing. Well I am doing the same thing as I go to school with about 8 or so people on this wiki...--MichaelRead 06:47, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

agreed for "Declare Jihad on All Survivors" Sonny but not for Karek. By the way, Sonny would give Finis a run for his money. He seems to be entirely logic proof and cannot respond to what he sees as pro survivor content without using profanity. To be honest, I'm hoping to see him in court sooner or later for his behavior,

Here are some charming quotes from everyone's favorite asshole:

"Your user page is retarded." Have you looked at your own, Saromu?

"Everything you ever edit on the wiki is stupid." I'm sure the undead residents of Ridleybank agree with your rational argument.

"Whatever spews from your mouth lowers the IQ of everyone who reads it." If you weren't a grade-A asshole, someone might actually listen to that.

"I want you to know That you're a retard." If you're going to post garbage on talk pages, at least change the words around. Hint: Press Ctrl then press "C" and "V". --TerminalFailure 01:46, 15 February 2008 (EST)

/me yawns --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS CRF MOB pr0n} 06:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh go cry a fucking river Terminal Failure. Honestly, Sexylegs and gomer probably won't care about whatever input you have either. Now go away.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 15:25, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Meh, this thing's sorted anyway now. --Seventythree^Talk 15:29, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

To Whom It May Concern

In my professional opinion, you lot are ridiculous. The whole topic of arbitration due to small edits which in the perspective of a select few are "lewd" and "inappropriate" holds no logic. Maybe if you all stopped cupping your ears and blurting out your own gospel at each other you'd realise that;

1) Mods are always Nazis and have ears for their own kind

2) This is too small of an offence to care about

3) Children are not as easily corrupted by sperm bank references as you'd imagine and,

4) I killed Bub 4 times in a row at Pitneybank (ohhhhh yeahhhhh)

In conclusion, most respect to jed and nick for acting rationally in the face of facism (i.e Mods).--Guy.The.Firefighter 03:09, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

"Mods are always Nazis". Its about time some invokes Godwin's Law. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS CRF MOB pr0n} 03:10, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Guy The Firefighter is a dirty Fascist! Comrades, To Arms!-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 03:13, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

This is funny, coming from the guy who went around for months with his name translated in German. I'm not sure if there's a Communist Version of the Law, but I'm calling it "Comrade's Law". --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS CRF MOB pr0n} 03:16, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I could probably get my friend to translate it into Russian for me, if that would make things make more sense. And Sonny? Shut up. You're ruining the moment. :P -- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 03:22, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Суицидал Ангел. There you go, my little Communist friend. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS CRF MOB pr0n} 03:50, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

For some reason I don't trust you. :P -- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 04:11, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I only typed Suicidal Angel in Xchat using Cyrillic text, the Russian alphabet. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS CRF MOB pr0n} 04:22, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Which is why when I used Google to translate it, it came up as "Angel Suitsidal". :P -- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 04:32, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Because that's in our Alphabet. I translated it in Cyrillic for you. That's authentic Russian. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS CRF MOB pr0n} 04:43, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Playign around the Google one out of boredom, I got "Самоубийство ангел". Although that could just be " Suicide Angel". I don't know, I don't speak the Russkie language.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 04:48, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

That's probably it then. I can't be too sure on Xchat and Google is the almighty wisest. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS CRF MOB pr0n} 05:00, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Not always. I asked it to translate the English word "Can" to English and it resulted in "Bucket" for some odd reason.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 05:05, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

U STOLED MAH BUKKET! --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS CRF MOB pr0n} 23:56, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

That image scares me.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 00:00, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Yaarg *oppress* (+1) --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 04:01, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

This conversation is too relevant to the arby case to be here. please bitch more about sysop incompetency in future posts. thankyou.--xoxo 07:14, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

You're all daft.--MichaelRead 08:30, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I prefer the term "Creatively Insane, with a dash of Boredom". At least we're entertaining, right?-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 18:30, 18 February 2008 (UTC)