UDWiki talk:Administration/Arbitration: Difference between revisions

From The Urban Dead Wiki
Jump to navigationJump to search
 
(54 intermediate revisions by 24 users not shown)
Line 3: Line 3:


=General Discussion=
=General Discussion=
== Text Change ==
in '''Current Arbitrators'''
:The following users have placed their hand up as users who are willing to be contacted to act as an Arbitrator. The role of Arbitrator is not restricted to the Administration Team; any user can be contacted as an Arbitrator''', even those not listed below,''' and use this page for the arbitration, so long as both parties agree to the Arbitrator. Users who wish to place their hand up as an Arbitrator should place their name below on the list, using {{CodeInline|<nowiki>*{{usr|YourUserPage}}</nowiki>}}
Change in bold. --<small>[[User:Hagnat|hagnat]]</small> 19:51, 18 June 2011 (BST)
:[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki%3AAdministration%2FArbitration%2FIntro&action=historysubmit&diff=1908199&oldid=1479264 I changed it], as it is simply an explaination the current situation <small>-- [[User:Boxy|boxy]] 10:26, 20 June 2011 (BST)</small>
==DON'T BE FUCKING UP MY PAGE==
Seriously. What did you all do to arbies?!?--[[¯\(°_o)/¯|<span style="color: DarkMagenta"> ¯\(°_o)/</span>]][[User_talk:Suicidalangel|<span style="color: DarkTurquoise">¯</span>]] 02:08, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
==Punishments for violations==
{{quote|Boxy|Arbies violations are a day ban anyway. "As a note, by requesting an Arbitration, all parties are thus obliged to accept the outcome of the Arbitration. Not doing will be considered Vandalism, and such vandalism attempts will be treated as if the vandal has already received two warnings" -- boxy talk • teh rulz 12:43 8 July 2009 (BST)}}
Just a question regarding that Arbies Vandalism note that Boxy quoted on an A/VB case. It seems to be saying that '''all''' such vandal cases will be treated as a 1 day ban regardless of any other circumstances... is that actually what it means, Boxy goes on to say its merely to point out a minimum punishment but if that is the case it means you automatically jump up 3 steps for what might be a petty infringement? If its a one off violation would it not be fairer to treat it separately from the actual VB escalations unless it is also Vandalism in the traditional sense?  --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 13:06, 9 July 2009 (BST)
:Why? If someone already has a bunch of active (ie unstruck) escalations on their record I don't think it's at all unfair to punish them harder for violating an arbitration ruling than someone who might only have a few or none. --[[User:Cyberbob240|Cyberbob]] 13:41, 9 July 2009 (BST)
::Its potentially unfair because we have had some pretty poor Arbies decisions in the past and breaching them should not carry such a harsh punishment as a 3 step escalation. I know in most such cases the Sysops would probably find '''not vandalism''' but why even have the threat? Also even in clear cut cases like the MisterGame one where some sysops actually said his action was '''vandalism''' only because of the Arbies ruling it would seem unfair to push someone to step 3 in one single bound. Obviously MG got only a single escalation as this took him to the usual 1 day ban anyway but I just think that taking a clean sheet to 3 escalations for an arbies dispute is a little OTT. I suggested recording it separately but even just making it clear for future reference that each instance should never actually count as more than 1 escalation for recording purposes would make it a lot fairer for clean sheet offenders.
::As for punishing repeat vandals more harshly, thats really a different point and I don't really disagree with you on it in general but would point out that in a heated disagreement it would be easy to go from a 1 day warning to an outright ban through petty and stupid stubbornness resulting from a bad arbies ruling... As such limiting it to a separate VB track might have merit.--[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 13:59, 9 July 2009 (BST)
:::As always you are more than free to suggest a modification to the arbitration punishment policy in A/PD. I'd like to point out that losing it in the heat of the moment is no excuse. This is the Internet, and you can (should) always get up and walk away from your computer if you're getting RELLY ANGERY. As for bad rulings, if a ruling is truly ''bad'' (this does not include simply "against you") there is the option of having it repealed with another arbitration case. This pretty much only works if the ruling is like on a Nalikill scale of bad - the idea is that you pick your arbitrator so by and large you have to just suck it up. --[[User:Cyberbob240|Cyberbob]] 14:09, 9 July 2009 (BST)
::::It's not really a massive problem; I don't remember it ever causing serious drama; so a policy would probably be overkill at this stage. I think a sensible discussion and perhaps minor clarification to the existing rule is all that is needed... The instant ban thing just seems more like it should be a way to enforce your "stepping away from the keyboard" than an actual Vandalism ban (at least for a first infraction) and for a single (possibly minor) thing to potentially need 3 de-escalations is more punishment than i think would likely be merited. --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 14:56, 9 July 2009 (BST)
:::::Perhaps it could be recorded on A/VD as the next escalation (a warning if it's a first offense), with a note that it is an arbitration violation and carries a min. 24hr ban regardless <small>-- [[User:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">boxy</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">talk</span>]] • [[The Rules|teh rulz]]</sup> 21:29 9 July 2009 (BST)</small>
::::::That seems fair... its really only the potential to go from 0 to 3 escalations that I think is unfair so modified report would easily avoid the problem.--[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 00:33, 10 July 2009 (BST)
:::::::Wait. You think that if you have 1 or 0 warnings and you violate a ruling that your warnings count is magically filled up as well as the ban? Because that's not the case at all. --[[User:Cyberbob240|Cyberbob]] 02:07, 10 July 2009 (BST)
:::::::Yeah, my belief is that it would increment "Warning Status" up one notch, with a 24 hour ban, which would also be noted on Vandal Data. If that's not the idea being suggested, I like mine better. --{{User:Darth Sensitive/Sig}} 02:13, 10 July 2009 (BST)
::::::::Actually thats exactly what I am getting at, if someone with 0 or 1 previous warnings violates an arbies and is slapped with an Vandal Ban will it get recorded as 1 warning or a 24 hour ban with a note to clarify that it was a result of an Arbies case? If not and its just logged as a 24 hour ban then the next infringement could well be treated as a 4th warning/escalation (48 hours?) I don't even know if its ever happened that someone with such a clean sheet has received a ban this way (and I am not prepared to trawl through the records to check) but I just wanted to clarify that it wouldn't happen that way. --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 09:34, 10 July 2009 (BST)
:::::::::At the moment, it's recorded as a 24hr ban (usually with "''arbitration violation''" or similar after it), and if subsequent warnings are given for other (non arbies) stuff, the lower warnings are filled in before moving on to the 48hr ban. I'm not sure of what to do if another arbies violation happens? I guess you move on to 48hr ban? <small>-- [[User:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">boxy</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">talk</span>]] • [[The Rules|teh rulz]]</sup> 14:00 10 July 2009 (BST)</small>
::::::::::Makes sense to me.--{{User:Darth Sensitive/Sig}} 17:37, 10 July 2009 (BST)


==Editing during a case is frankly bad form==
==Editing during a case is frankly bad form==
Line 12: Line 38:
::::Anyone he likes? So say I had a case against NEWB x and I picked iscariot that would be fine? If this is the case, can we make it part of the process that you '''must''' inform the target of arbitration that you're bringing the case and that non attendance will result in it proceeding anyway, perhaps by means of a standardized template? --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 10:28, 9 June 2009 (BST)
::::Anyone he likes? So say I had a case against NEWB x and I picked iscariot that would be fine? If this is the case, can we make it part of the process that you '''must''' inform the target of arbitration that you're bringing the case and that non attendance will result in it proceeding anyway, perhaps by means of a standardized template? --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 10:28, 9 June 2009 (BST)
:::::A notification like that is something we should have had for ages. As for the other, yes; though I suspect that Iscariot will be more likely to come down on the side of the newbie. If people start abusing the system to pick on newbies I would think that they would be open to A/VB cases, as they would for abusing any other admin page. --[[User:Cyberbob240|Cyberbob]] 10:36, 9 June 2009 (BST)
:::::A notification like that is something we should have had for ages. As for the other, yes; though I suspect that Iscariot will be more likely to come down on the side of the newbie. If people start abusing the system to pick on newbies I would think that they would be open to A/VB cases, as they would for abusing any other admin page. --[[User:Cyberbob240|Cyberbob]] 10:36, 9 June 2009 (BST)
::::::I'll throw up a horribly ugly template later on today for people to look at. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 11:16, 9 June 2009 (BST)
::Another option is to have some sort of clause that refusal to participate in arbitration (including the old "refusing all impartial arbitrators" trick), and a continuation of the edit war or behaviour stated in the case, would be a clear indication of bad faith, and hence a greater likelyhood of a warning? It gives them the option to just walk away from a dispute without having to say that they give up, which is fair enough as long as that is the end of it <small>-- [[User:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">boxy</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">talk</span>]] • [[The Rules|teh rulz]]</sup> 11:10 9 June 2009 (BST)</small>
lol i told you sa. arbies wasn't set up for what you wanted it to do. i guess changing it is as good a way to get something done as any...--{{User:J3D/ciggy}} 09:56, 10 June 2009 (BST)


==Do you like prunes?==
==Do you like prunes?==
Line 30: Line 61:


= Discussion of Arbitration Cases =
= Discussion of Arbitration Cases =
===SA vs Thadeous Oakley===
===Oberst vs Cheese===
You're going to have to choose an arbitrator. If you don't SA will be able to choose for you. --[[User:Cyberbob240|Cyberbob]] 17:05, 8 June 2009 (BST)
Isn't the page supposed to remain unedited through the course of Arbitration? I see lots of editing still taking place. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>00:43, 10 April 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:[[UDWiki:Administration/Arbitration_Guidelines#Must_I_accept_arbitration_.3F|Not true]] --[[User:Hagnat|People's Commissar Hagnat]] <sup>[[User_talk:Hagnat|[talk]]] [[wcdz|[wcdz]]]</sup> 20:13, 8 June 2009 (BST)
::Move it to the talk page if you feel strongly about it fucktard. [[User:Generaloberst|Generaloberst]] 0:44, 10 April 2012 (BST)
::Truer than you think. At the top of this page "In assisting in Arbitration, we generally suggest that both parties agree to the Arbitration. This is not, by any means, a requirement, but we do require that both parties be represented in proceedings."
:::Move what to which talk page? I'm talking about the edits to [[Blitz]] after the arbies already started. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>01:00, 10 April 2012 (UTC)</sub>
::Now, based upon that, we have yet another contradiction in this damn wiki. Why are they every where? And in this case, not just because it'd benefit me, we should honestly follow a forceful arbitration if it's needed. To deny it literally makes this entire system moot. Whats the point in having a system to settle shit if it doesn't work because we can all just sat no?--[[KyleStyle_For_Everything|<font face="Rage italic"><span style="color: DarkMagenta">Mr. Angel,</span> ]][[User_talk:Suicidalangel|<span style="color: DarkGreen">Help</span>]] [[Project_Mentor|<span style="color: Black">needed?</span>]]</font> 20:28, 8 June 2009 (BST)
::::Feel free to go to [[A/PT]] if you feel an edit conflict is going on. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">█ </span>]]</span>''' 01:12, 10 April 2012 (BST)
:::Your quote is outdaded. I should have fixed that when i wrote the arbitration guidelines last year, my bad. The reason why arbitration does not work the way you want its because it was not built to solve personal issues like this. You are not supposed barge in here asking for a user to be forbidden to use your talk page (or any other page you own). Instead, you should use this place to find a way for you two to be able to work together in a constructive fashion. Barring both from talking to each other for a given time should be frowned upon, and only be the decision made by the arbitrator after every other means to solve the issue had failed. --[[User:Hagnat|People's Commissar Hagnat]] <sup>[[User_talk:Hagnat|[talk]]] [[wcdz|[wcdz]]]</sup> 20:37, 8 June 2009 (BST)  
:::::Why? It would just get protected in whichever state it is in now. All editing the page is doing now is making it harder for an arbitrator to make a clear decision. You'd think both parties would want to avoid that. That's why its pretty standard practice for a page to go hands off once it goes to Arbies for edit conflict. Although it would appear Obesrt has taken some amount of license whilst "adding back in" Cheese's edits. And that's recisely why the rule exists.  ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>01:27, 10 April 2012 (UTC)</sub>
::::Your edits, along with Izzy's are not entirely valid to that page. There was no consensus by the entirety of the community to let you or others edit that page. You should not "fix" that problem based upon a rogue users edits. Arbitration is our method of dealing with disputes and being used as such. If you don't like it, tough. Write a policy instead of stealth editing shit. ;). But seriously, I'm well within my rights to ask for this.--[[KyleStyle_For_Everything|<font face="Rage italic"><span style="color: DarkMagenta">Mr. Angel,</span> ]][[User_talk:Suicidalangel|<span style="color: DarkGreen">Help</span>]] [[Project_Mentor|<span style="color: Black">needed?</span>]]</font> 20:41, 8 June 2009 (BST)
::::::standard practice? It's the rules. Revert and protect {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 01:43, 10 April 2012 (BST)
:::::It become concensus when it was left un-edited for more than 15 monhts with a link in an administration page advising users to use said page as guideline. --[[User:Hagnat|People's Commissar Hagnat]] <sup>[[User_talk:Hagnat|[talk]]] [[wcdz|[wcdz]]]</sup> 21:11, 8 June 2009 (BST)
 
::::::It didn't, because at the top of the page, the page we use more as a guideline and rule book for arbies, it still said others can and will be forced into arbies if the need arises.--[[KyleStyle_For_Everything|<font face="Rage italic"><span style="color: DarkMagenta">Mr. Angel,</span> ]][[User_talk:Suicidalangel|<span style="color: DarkGreen">Help</span>]] [[Project_Mentor|<span style="color: Black">needed?</span>]]</font> 21:14, 8 June 2009 (BST)
===[[User:Spiderzed]] and [[Big Coffin Hunters]] vs [[User:tyx94]] and [[User:Yonnua Koponen]]===
:::::::Precedent and common sense are against you here SA, he is entirely within his rights to refuse any arbitration if he feels there is no need for it and this has been proven may times (by Grim on at least 2 or 3 occasions for starters) In any event the resolution can only binding if you accept arbitration or it wouldn't be called arbitration... perhaps what you are looking for is a trial by peers (or combat) --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 00:22, 9 June 2009 (BST)  
Hmmm... nothing for over a week. Withdraw? --{{:User:Thanatologist/Sig}} 14:35, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
::::::::And i just found a flaw on SA line of thought. Heh.
:The policy discussion has still two days left before being cycled, while the template talk page has no closing date. Still, this looks like one of the many arbies that fade away with a whimper. --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 15:52, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::''In assisting in Arbitration, we '''generally suggest''' that both parties agree to the Arbitration. This '''is not [..] a requirement''', but we do require that both parties be represented in proceedings.''
::The template talk has two closing dates: Feb. 28th for nominations, and March 15 for voting. -[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 17:43, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
::::::::''Genereally suggest'' and ''not a requirement'' imply that the user is free to choose if he wants to accept the arbitration or not. And the final bit simply state the user can accept arbitration, yet have someone else representing him during the proccedings. --[[User:Hagnat|People's Commissar Hagnat]] <sup>[[User_talk:Hagnat|[talk]]] [[wcdz|[wcdz]]]</sup> 00:29, 9 June 2009 (BST)
::I refuse to rescind this claim. Either it's solved through PD or the template talk, or I'm having your group forcibly moved to the correct section through arbies.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature‎}} 16:07, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::Right then. SA, how about you make it explicitly clear to Thad that if he edits in your namespace again, you'll take him to A/VB for vandalism. That's essentially what you want out of this arby, and if you make your wishes explicit and those wishes are within your rights (your namespace), and he breaks them, I could see you winning an A/VB case against Thad. No arby required, even if you can't get him to agree to one. --{{User:BobBoberton/sig}} 00:54, 9 June 2009 (BST)
:::Forcibly moved? --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 16:47, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
::::::::No Hag, what that line means is that if the other user doesn't agree, we'll just have someone chosen to represent them, the arbitration goes on, and the other user is screwed. Your understanding of the English language is lacking. Instead of trying to turn a system that currently is fine as it is into a system that will be rendered useless, try concentrating on the important things. Like making a system for personality conflicts, like this one, and edit disputes. I have precedence on my side (Various restraining orders place upon parties, like with Akule and the Fifth Horseman). This is a simple issue that is afforded to me by user space rights. I don't want "Well just tell him to stay away" or "Well threaten him". If I threaten him, it won't have any grounds because nothing went through fucking arbies. If I tell him to stay away, he'll still be able to post any time he wants. A simple arbitration would fix all these problems. And it doesn't help with Hagnat trying to wikilawyer (And failing, Imight add) what he wants, and then stealth changing guidelines and rules, and modifying the way we do things around here. When he's not a sysops. When there wasn't any consent. I want a simple arbitration case, and I will proceed with it whether Hag's, or Mistergame like it or not.--[[KyleStyle_For_Everything|<font face="Rage italic"><span style="color: DarkMagenta">Mr. Angel,</span> ]][[User_talk:Suicidalangel|<span style="color: DarkGreen">Help</span>]] [[Project_Mentor|<span style="color: Black">needed?</span>]]</font> 01:11, 9 June 2009 (BST)
::::I'm assuming an impartial arbitrator will force them to move it to the correct section.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature‎}} 18:13, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::Wow. You sound like Iscariot now. Not only you are putting your hand over your ears and yelling 'lalalalayouarewronglalalaimarightlalala', but you are also accusing me of stealth editing guidelines... which my recent move simply made it EASIER to pinpoint any changes made to the guidelines. What next, you accusing me of abusing my trusted powers for my own agenda ? oh, wait, i dont have them anymore... you do, and you just used to protect the abirtation guidelines pages (pages i created and edited) to fit *YOUR* agenda... hum. --[[User:Hagnat|People's Commissar Hagnat]] <sup>[[User_talk:Hagnat|[talk]]] [[wcdz|[wcdz]]]</sup> 01:26, 9 June 2009 (BST)
:::::Yeah, we don't force, we rule. Failure to follow the ruling results in a double escalation. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 18:16, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::And btw, the arbitration system is *NOT* working fine. It never did. Specially with people using it to solve their own personal disputes in juvenile fashion like you are doing now. --[[User:Hagnat|People's Commissar Hagnat]] <sup>[[User_talk:Hagnat|[talk]]] [[wcdz|[wcdz]]]</sup> 01:29, 9 June 2009 (BST)
::::::Ergh, it's effective forcing. And since it's a community page, an arbitrator can put it in a specific way and tell involved parties not to change it, so technically they can't be forced to do it, but it can be forced to happen by an arbitrator.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature‎}} 18:44, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::Considering in your "move" of the page guidelines into a template, you removed a part that has been there since god knows how long? Yeah. I consider that stealth editing hagnat. Especially considering ''there was no god damned discussion'' about wanting Iscariot's edit. Yes, I protected them, because yet again you're throwing the god damned rule book out the window, because you like doing things your way and god help you if some pesky red tape gets in the way amirite? Hagnat, please refrain from editing this case, as you have not offered to arbitrate, and are doing nothing but shitting my case up with your incorrect bullshit. And I also reject you as arbitrator if you think about offering to be a douche. :) --[[KyleStyle_For_Everything|<font face="Rage italic"><span style="color: DarkMagenta">Mr. Angel,</span> ]][[User_talk:Suicidalangel|<span style="color: DarkGreen">Help</span>]] [[Project_Mentor|<span style="color: Black">needed?</span>]]</font> 01:33, 9 June 2009 (BST)
:::::::But surely you'd want a precedent, so future issues of editing the page could be handled quickly? You want something that allows you to modify the page regardless of who changes it? --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 18:46, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::::Since the arbitraion guidelines i wrote in january apparently has no weight since it never passed through community discussion, there is nothing forbidding me from editing your arbie case, SA. And you call it ''incorrect bulsshit'', but honestmistake comment above seems to agree with me, and so does several users in other cases (which were not archived because they were not accepted, oh bummer) --[[User:Hagnat|People's Commissar Hagnat]] <sup>[[User_talk:Hagnat|[talk]]] [[wcdz|[wcdz]]]</sup> 01:48, 9 June 2009 (BST)
::::::::Actually, I think he's most interested in waving his E-penis around. Forcibly.-{{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>18:53 23 February 2011(UTC)</tt>
::::::::::Sorry Hagnat but trying to guilt-trip SA into allowing your edits to go through is not going to work when those edits were made without any sort of discussion. I'm actually glad you aren't a sysop anymore because your level of self-entitlement is terrifying. You don't get to unilaterally make those kinds of judgement calls - you got misconducted for it a shitload of times and now you're leaving yourself open to vandalism cases. --[[User:Cyberbob240|Cyberbob]] 01:35, 9 June 2009 (BST)
:::::::::You know, if this ass heap does go to arbies again, count me in on BCH's side. This would likely affect the Knights in an adverse manner. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 20:33, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::::so speaks the troll who thinks its people enough to get his sysop powers.... fyi, I could only get misconducted if i abused any sysop powers. Since all these edits were made with me as a user, i find it highly doubtful that it could be seen as misconduct in any way. --[[User:Hagnat|People's Commissar Hagnat]] <sup>[[User_talk:Hagnat|[talk]]] [[wcdz|[wcdz]]]</sup> 01:48, 9 June 2009 (BST)
::::::::::Shit, count me in too. Let's ''all'' jump in! -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig4}} 23:09, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::::I was talking about your tendency to make unilateral judgement calls in general rather than illegally editing arbitration guidelines in particular. Please take the time to read what I say properly. --[[User:Cyberbob240|Cyberbob]] 01:51, 9 June 2009 (BST)
:::::::::::Thanks kids. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 23:11, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
{{arbiesfight}}{{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>00:13 24 February 2011(UTC)</tt>
::::::::::::''"Tyx and I should both accept, and I'm not representing the DA, '''I'm representing the wiki as a game resource'''.--Yonnua Koponen T G P ^^^ 19:36, 10 February 2011 (UTC) "'' As a User of the Wiki with a very strong interest in keeping the Wiki as an ''accurate'' and ''practical-to-use'' Game Resource, I found this statement highly amusing. --{{User:DT/Signature}} 01:11, 24 Feabruary 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::::::This should be the best spot for this, I think. Just for everyone to know, I'm not going to participate if this goes to arbitration. I don't have the time for it, and honestly, I really doubt I'm going to get a fair ruling. Spiderzed has too many friends here, and I can see that apart from Yonnua, I have no support. As a newcomer here, I've got no chance at all. Frankly, it's not my problem if the wiki is full of inaccurate information, so I don't care too much, to be honest. This isn't intended as a shot at anyone, I'm just letting everyone know i have no interest in pursuing this. If Yonnua wants to, that's fine.--[[User:Tyx94|tyx94]] 19:45, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::::aww i just made popcorn--<small><div style="display: inline-block; height: 14px; width: 18px; overflow: hidden; vertical-align: text-bottom;">[[User:Sexualharrison|<span style="position: absolute; display: block; font-size: 0px; height: 14px; width: 18px;"> </span>]][[Image:Boobs.sh.siggie.gif|18px]]</div> [[User talk:Sexualharrison|<span style="color:Red">bitch</span>]] 20:53 11 March 2011 (UTC)</small>
 
===Izzy vs Bunghole===
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to comment here, so please forgive me if I do it wrong. My question is, why is this case still here? It's completed already. --[[User:Cornholioo|Cornholioo]] 23:47, 2 May 2010 (BST)
:It was still there because no one had gotten around to moving it yet. Unless someone specifically cleans those things up, we'll generally just deal with them whenever the next case comes around. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:30, 3 May 2010 (BST)
 
===Zombie Lord vs [[User:Lelouch|Lelouch]]===
Clearly has no interest in editing my suggestions other than trolling them. I seek to have him banned from editing any of my suggestions in any way in the future. I will accept Boxy, Honestmistake, SA, Linkthewindow, The Rooster or AHLG as arbitrator.{{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>19:43 1 January 2010(UTC)</tt>
:hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha<br />hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha<br />hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha<br />hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha<br />hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha--{{User:OrangeGaf/Sig}} 19:59, 1 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Gaf, Lulz. Also Zombie Lord, why did you separate the cases again. Merge them with the 2 below, they are the same. You aren't going to get 3 separate cases, only more drama. If you continue to try to stir up a mess on purpose the only thing you'll get is a ban. --[[Image:Umbrella-White.png|14px]][[User:MisterGame|<span style= "color: maroon; background-color: white">'''''Thadeous Oakley''''']][[Image:Umbrella-White.png|14px]]</span> 20:03, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
{{arbiesfight}}-- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig4}} 01:10, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
 
===Zombie Lord vs Verance===
Clearly has no interest in editing my suggestions other than vandalizing them. I seek to have him banned from editing any of my suggestions in any way in the future. I will accept Boxy, Honestmistake, SA, Linkthewindow, The Rooster or AHLG as arbitrator.{{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>07:42 1 January 2010(UTC)</tt>
 
 
<big> <center>'''Please Don't feed the Troll'''!!!<br>
It will only encourage it, and then you'll be sorry!<br>
Just ignore them, and it. ''will'' go away. Eventually.</center></big>
 
 
Anywho, as should be obvious to anyone, one of ZL's "suggestions" was put on line to be placed in the no-discussion bin, and he apparently deemed it necessary to copy it and place it back at the top, commonly known as "attention whoring". No arbitration needed, just don't feed the troll. That is all that needs to be said. [[User:Verance|Verance]] 14:56, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
 
Merge with the one case above please as it basically resolves around the same.--[[Image:Umbrella-White.png|14px]][[User:MisterGame|<span style= "color: maroon; background-color: white">'''''Thadeous Oakley''''']][[Image:Umbrella-White.png|14px]]</span> 15:23, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
{{arbiesfight}}-- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig4}} 01:10, 24 February 2011 (UTC)


==Iscariot vs Sgt Raiden==
==Iscariot vs Sgt Raiden==
Discussion Move to [[UDWiki talk:Administration/Arbitration/Iscariot vs Sgt Raiden|archive]]
Discussion Move to [[UDWiki talk:Administration/Arbitration/Iscariot vs Sgt Raiden|archive]]

Latest revision as of 06:45, 15 April 2012

Message History

General Discussion

Text Change

in Current Arbitrators

The following users have placed their hand up as users who are willing to be contacted to act as an Arbitrator. The role of Arbitrator is not restricted to the Administration Team; any user can be contacted as an Arbitrator, even those not listed below, and use this page for the arbitration, so long as both parties agree to the Arbitrator. Users who wish to place their hand up as an Arbitrator should place their name below on the list, using *{{usr|YourUserPage}}

Change in bold. --hagnat 19:51, 18 June 2011 (BST)

I changed it, as it is simply an explaination the current situation -- boxy 10:26, 20 June 2011 (BST)

DON'T BE FUCKING UP MY PAGE

Seriously. What did you all do to arbies?!?-- ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:08, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Punishments for violations

Boxy said:
Arbies violations are a day ban anyway. "As a note, by requesting an Arbitration, all parties are thus obliged to accept the outcome of the Arbitration. Not doing will be considered Vandalism, and such vandalism attempts will be treated as if the vandal has already received two warnings" -- boxy talk • teh rulz 12:43 8 July 2009 (BST)

Just a question regarding that Arbies Vandalism note that Boxy quoted on an A/VB case. It seems to be saying that all such vandal cases will be treated as a 1 day ban regardless of any other circumstances... is that actually what it means, Boxy goes on to say its merely to point out a minimum punishment but if that is the case it means you automatically jump up 3 steps for what might be a petty infringement? If its a one off violation would it not be fairer to treat it separately from the actual VB escalations unless it is also Vandalism in the traditional sense? --Honestmistake 13:06, 9 July 2009 (BST)

Why? If someone already has a bunch of active (ie unstruck) escalations on their record I don't think it's at all unfair to punish them harder for violating an arbitration ruling than someone who might only have a few or none. --Cyberbob 13:41, 9 July 2009 (BST)
Its potentially unfair because we have had some pretty poor Arbies decisions in the past and breaching them should not carry such a harsh punishment as a 3 step escalation. I know in most such cases the Sysops would probably find not vandalism but why even have the threat? Also even in clear cut cases like the MisterGame one where some sysops actually said his action was vandalism only because of the Arbies ruling it would seem unfair to push someone to step 3 in one single bound. Obviously MG got only a single escalation as this took him to the usual 1 day ban anyway but I just think that taking a clean sheet to 3 escalations for an arbies dispute is a little OTT. I suggested recording it separately but even just making it clear for future reference that each instance should never actually count as more than 1 escalation for recording purposes would make it a lot fairer for clean sheet offenders.
As for punishing repeat vandals more harshly, thats really a different point and I don't really disagree with you on it in general but would point out that in a heated disagreement it would be easy to go from a 1 day warning to an outright ban through petty and stupid stubbornness resulting from a bad arbies ruling... As such limiting it to a separate VB track might have merit.--Honestmistake 13:59, 9 July 2009 (BST)
As always you are more than free to suggest a modification to the arbitration punishment policy in A/PD. I'd like to point out that losing it in the heat of the moment is no excuse. This is the Internet, and you can (should) always get up and walk away from your computer if you're getting RELLY ANGERY. As for bad rulings, if a ruling is truly bad (this does not include simply "against you") there is the option of having it repealed with another arbitration case. This pretty much only works if the ruling is like on a Nalikill scale of bad - the idea is that you pick your arbitrator so by and large you have to just suck it up. --Cyberbob 14:09, 9 July 2009 (BST)
It's not really a massive problem; I don't remember it ever causing serious drama; so a policy would probably be overkill at this stage. I think a sensible discussion and perhaps minor clarification to the existing rule is all that is needed... The instant ban thing just seems more like it should be a way to enforce your "stepping away from the keyboard" than an actual Vandalism ban (at least for a first infraction) and for a single (possibly minor) thing to potentially need 3 de-escalations is more punishment than i think would likely be merited. --Honestmistake 14:56, 9 July 2009 (BST)
Perhaps it could be recorded on A/VD as the next escalation (a warning if it's a first offense), with a note that it is an arbitration violation and carries a min. 24hr ban regardless -- boxy talkteh rulz 21:29 9 July 2009 (BST)
That seems fair... its really only the potential to go from 0 to 3 escalations that I think is unfair so modified report would easily avoid the problem.--Honestmistake 00:33, 10 July 2009 (BST)
Wait. You think that if you have 1 or 0 warnings and you violate a ruling that your warnings count is magically filled up as well as the ban? Because that's not the case at all. --Cyberbob 02:07, 10 July 2009 (BST)
Yeah, my belief is that it would increment "Warning Status" up one notch, with a 24 hour ban, which would also be noted on Vandal Data. If that's not the idea being suggested, I like mine better. --Darth Sensitive Talk W! 02:13, 10 July 2009 (BST)
Actually thats exactly what I am getting at, if someone with 0 or 1 previous warnings violates an arbies and is slapped with an Vandal Ban will it get recorded as 1 warning or a 24 hour ban with a note to clarify that it was a result of an Arbies case? If not and its just logged as a 24 hour ban then the next infringement could well be treated as a 4th warning/escalation (48 hours?) I don't even know if its ever happened that someone with such a clean sheet has received a ban this way (and I am not prepared to trawl through the records to check) but I just wanted to clarify that it wouldn't happen that way. --Honestmistake 09:34, 10 July 2009 (BST)
At the moment, it's recorded as a 24hr ban (usually with "arbitration violation" or similar after it), and if subsequent warnings are given for other (non arbies) stuff, the lower warnings are filled in before moving on to the 48hr ban. I'm not sure of what to do if another arbies violation happens? I guess you move on to 48hr ban? -- boxy talkteh rulz 14:00 10 July 2009 (BST)
Makes sense to me.--Darth Sensitive Talk W! 17:37, 10 July 2009 (BST)

Editing during a case is frankly bad form

Frankly, editing the guidelines for arbitration whilst involved in an arbitration is a little iffy. But since the edits in question, notably hagnats are being questioned, can we have a proper look at the system? SA has already highlighted a number on inconsistencies in the system. Can we get some further discussion in order to get an agreement between all wording? --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 09:36, 9 June 2009 (BST)

For one thing, people should not be able to refuse arbitration. I'm really glad that particular tidbit remained out of the public eye until now (thanks for that you tool, and Hagnat too) because it renders Arbitration 100% useless. Literally nobody would accept cases brought against them. I annoy the shit out of someone (staying within the bounds of vandalism) and they would have no way of making me stop outside of having to repeatedly delete my posts to their talk pages. BUT OMIGOD WE HAVE TO COME TO AN AGREEMANT EEEEEEEEEEEE
Fuck that noise. Users need to be able to easily and painlessly ban people from their talk pages and be able to have A/VB backing them up. --Cyberbob 10:07, 9 June 2009 (BST)
So junk all edits since last discussion. Anything else you feel need to be added, clarified? --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 10:14, 9 June 2009 (BST)
I think that to reinforce the inability to refuse arbitration a clause should be added somewhere stating that if you try to refuse to participate, or refuse all arbitrators, then the person bringing the case will be able to pick whoever they like. --Cyberbob 10:23, 9 June 2009 (BST)
Anyone he likes? So say I had a case against NEWB x and I picked iscariot that would be fine? If this is the case, can we make it part of the process that you must inform the target of arbitration that you're bringing the case and that non attendance will result in it proceeding anyway, perhaps by means of a standardized template? --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 10:28, 9 June 2009 (BST)
A notification like that is something we should have had for ages. As for the other, yes; though I suspect that Iscariot will be more likely to come down on the side of the newbie. If people start abusing the system to pick on newbies I would think that they would be open to A/VB cases, as they would for abusing any other admin page. --Cyberbob 10:36, 9 June 2009 (BST)
I'll throw up a horribly ugly template later on today for people to look at. --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 11:16, 9 June 2009 (BST)
Another option is to have some sort of clause that refusal to participate in arbitration (including the old "refusing all impartial arbitrators" trick), and a continuation of the edit war or behaviour stated in the case, would be a clear indication of bad faith, and hence a greater likelyhood of a warning? It gives them the option to just walk away from a dispute without having to say that they give up, which is fair enough as long as that is the end of it -- boxy talkteh rulz 11:10 9 June 2009 (BST)

lol i told you sa. arbies wasn't set up for what you wanted it to do. i guess changing it is as good a way to get something done as any...--xoxo 09:56, 10 June 2009 (BST)

Do you like prunes?

I don't. But I do like to prune things occasionally. So, I'm wondering if anyone will mind if I remove a few names off the arbitrator list. Not like some mass raepage, just people who haven't made more than an edit or two in the past month or so, and leaving a snippet about it on their talk. Then I'll maintain the list and go about this the same as described. Sound good? Questions, comments, concerns, screams for me not to do it?-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 21:50, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

One edit in the past two months should be enough for a user to mantain its name in the list. --People's Commissar Hagnat talk mod 21:54, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, that's fine. Other people have used similar edits previously. Linkthewindow  Talk  21:57, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

And done. I'll be checking back every month to maintain the list.-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 20:07, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks SA. Someone had to do this :/. Linkthewindow  Talk  06:41, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Time limit on cases

Krazy Monkey said:
Cases that have not been edited by either involved party for longer than 7 days or cases in which no arbitrator has yet been agreed upon after 7 days shall be archived.

Yeah, we need something like that, but isn't setting a limit on how long you have to choose an arbitrator a bit pedantic? On many cases it does take longer then that. What about after a week, something along the lines of "Choose an arbitrator now!" is said, and if no arbitrator is chosen within another week then, archived.

Secondly, I would rather there be fourteen days before any cases get archived (no edits,) but, meh. Linkthewindow  Talk  13:54, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Discussion of Arbitration Cases

Oberst vs Cheese

Isn't the page supposed to remain unedited through the course of Arbitration? I see lots of editing still taking place. ~Vsig.png 00:43, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Move it to the talk page if you feel strongly about it fucktard. Generaloberst 0:44, 10 April 2012 (BST)
Move what to which talk page? I'm talking about the edits to Blitz after the arbies already started. ~Vsig.png 01:00, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
Feel free to go to A/PT if you feel an edit conflict is going on. -- Spiderzed 01:12, 10 April 2012 (BST)
Why? It would just get protected in whichever state it is in now. All editing the page is doing now is making it harder for an arbitrator to make a clear decision. You'd think both parties would want to avoid that. That's why its pretty standard practice for a page to go hands off once it goes to Arbies for edit conflict. Although it would appear Obesrt has taken some amount of license whilst "adding back in" Cheese's edits. And that's recisely why the rule exists. ~Vsig.png 01:27, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
standard practice? It's the rules. Revert and protect DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 01:43, 10 April 2012 (BST)

User:Spiderzed and Big Coffin Hunters vs User:tyx94 and User:Yonnua Koponen

Hmmm... nothing for over a week. Withdraw? -- †  talk ? f.u. 14:35, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

The policy discussion has still two days left before being cycled, while the template talk page has no closing date. Still, this looks like one of the many arbies that fade away with a whimper. -- Spiderzed 15:52, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
The template talk has two closing dates: Feb. 28th for nominations, and March 15 for voting. -MHSstaff 17:43, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
I refuse to rescind this claim. Either it's solved through PD or the template talk, or I'm having your group forcibly moved to the correct section through arbies.--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 16:07, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Forcibly moved? --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 16:47, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
I'm assuming an impartial arbitrator will force them to move it to the correct section.--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 18:13, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, we don't force, we rule. Failure to follow the ruling results in a double escalation. --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 18:16, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Ergh, it's effective forcing. And since it's a community page, an arbitrator can put it in a specific way and tell involved parties not to change it, so technically they can't be forced to do it, but it can be forced to happen by an arbitrator.--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 18:44, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
But surely you'd want a precedent, so future issues of editing the page could be handled quickly? You want something that allows you to modify the page regardless of who changes it? --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 18:46, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Actually, I think he's most interested in waving his E-penis around. Forcibly.--- | T | BALLS! | 18:53 23 February 2011(UTC)
You know, if this ass heap does go to arbies again, count me in on BCH's side. This would likely affect the Knights in an adverse manner. For hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee 20:33, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Shit, count me in too. Let's all jump in! -- ϑanceϑanceevolution 23:09, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks kids. --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 23:11, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Spaceballs.jpg
ARBIES
AKA, E-PENIS SWORDFIGHT!

--

| T | BALLS! | 00:13 24 February 2011(UTC)

"Tyx and I should both accept, and I'm not representing the DA, I'm representing the wiki as a game resource.--Yonnua Koponen T G P ^^^ 19:36, 10 February 2011 (UTC) " As a User of the Wiki with a very strong interest in keeping the Wiki as an accurate and practical-to-use Game Resource, I found this statement highly amusing. --DTPraise KnowledgePK 01:11, 24 Feabruary 2011 (UTC)
This should be the best spot for this, I think. Just for everyone to know, I'm not going to participate if this goes to arbitration. I don't have the time for it, and honestly, I really doubt I'm going to get a fair ruling. Spiderzed has too many friends here, and I can see that apart from Yonnua, I have no support. As a newcomer here, I've got no chance at all. Frankly, it's not my problem if the wiki is full of inaccurate information, so I don't care too much, to be honest. This isn't intended as a shot at anyone, I'm just letting everyone know i have no interest in pursuing this. If Yonnua wants to, that's fine.--tyx94 19:45, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
aww i just made popcorn-- bitch 20:53 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Izzy vs Bunghole

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to comment here, so please forgive me if I do it wrong. My question is, why is this case still here? It's completed already. --Cornholioo 23:47, 2 May 2010 (BST)

It was still there because no one had gotten around to moving it yet. Unless someone specifically cleans those things up, we'll generally just deal with them whenever the next case comes around. Aichon 00:30, 3 May 2010 (BST)

Zombie Lord vs Lelouch

Clearly has no interest in editing my suggestions other than trolling them. I seek to have him banned from editing any of my suggestions in any way in the future. I will accept Boxy, Honestmistake, SA, Linkthewindow, The Rooster or AHLG as arbitrator.--

| T | BALLS! | 19:43 1 January 2010(UTC)

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha--Orange Talk 19:59, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Gaf, Lulz. Also Zombie Lord, why did you separate the cases again. Merge them with the 2 below, they are the same. You aren't going to get 3 separate cases, only more drama. If you continue to try to stir up a mess on purpose the only thing you'll get is a ban. --Umbrella-White.pngThadeous OakleyUmbrella-White.png 20:03, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Spaceballs.jpg
ARBIES
AKA, E-PENIS SWORDFIGHT!

-- ϑanceϑanceevolution 01:10, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Zombie Lord vs Verance

Clearly has no interest in editing my suggestions other than vandalizing them. I seek to have him banned from editing any of my suggestions in any way in the future. I will accept Boxy, Honestmistake, SA, Linkthewindow, The Rooster or AHLG as arbitrator.--

| T | BALLS! | 07:42 1 January 2010(UTC)


Please Don't feed the Troll!!!

It will only encourage it, and then you'll be sorry!

Just ignore them, and it. will go away. Eventually.


Anywho, as should be obvious to anyone, one of ZL's "suggestions" was put on line to be placed in the no-discussion bin, and he apparently deemed it necessary to copy it and place it back at the top, commonly known as "attention whoring". No arbitration needed, just don't feed the troll. That is all that needs to be said. Verance 14:56, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Merge with the one case above please as it basically resolves around the same.--Umbrella-White.pngThadeous OakleyUmbrella-White.png 15:23, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Spaceballs.jpg
ARBIES
AKA, E-PENIS SWORDFIGHT!

-- ϑanceϑanceevolution 01:10, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Iscariot vs Sgt Raiden

Discussion Move to archive