Suggestion:20070710 Shotgun Speedload

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	This suggestion has finished voting and has been moved to Peer Reviewed.

20070710 Shotgun Speedload

_. ^. _{. swiers} 20:56, 10 July 2007 (BST)

Suggestion type
military skill

Suggestion scope
people who use shotguns

Suggestion description
Survivors with this skill are adept at re-loading their double barreled shotguns quickly. They may just have a lot of practice, or they may use some sort of improvised speed clip. Whatever. The point is, if you have this skill, clicking on an empty shotgun (which currently does nothing) reloads the shotgun with two shells, for a cost of 1 AP. The net effect is that you can carry a single shotgun and a whole lot of shells and actually do more damage using that one shotgun and reloading during combat than you would if you just carried a pistol. It's not as potent as carrying a bunch of loaded shotguns, but its also a bit less encumbrance, and a lot easier to search for.

In numbers, this breaks down as follows:

Ignoring searches (in combat effects only):

• Loaded Shotguns: Each AP does an average of 6.5 damage. Takes 10 AP to do 65 damage, using 30% encumbrance worth of shotguns.
• Loaded Pistols: Each AP does an 3.25 damage. Takes 20 AP to do 65 damage, using ~15%% encumbrance worth of pistols.
• 1 Shotgun and 8 shells with shotgun speedload : using 10 Shots plus 4 reloads works out to 4.64 damage per AP. Takes 14 AP to do 65 damage, using 22% encumbrance.

MBR Breakdown

"The current MBR anaylisis says Shotgun: about a 28% chance of finding a single shell (including those already in shotguns when found) in a mall with Bargain Hunting. Works out to be 3.57 AP per shell. Add 1 AP for load and 1 AP for fire; total is 5.57 AP per fired round. Each round has a 65% chance of doing 10 damage -- 6.5 average. Thus, overall average damage is 6.5 hp per 5.57 AP, or 1.17 MBR. Against a flak jacket, it's 0.93 MBR The Shotgun Speedload suggestion would affect this only by shaving .5AP off the cost of loading a shell, raising shutgun MBR to 1.28 against non flak jacket targets (a bit better than an ax, using many more skills and a smaller target pool) and 1.03 against targets with flak protection (on par with a maxed knife). Compare this with the pistol- 1.71 MBR without flak, 1.37 MBR against a flak jacket. Clearly the pistol retains is title as the most efficient weapon.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. keep - Sure.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 21:16, 10 July 2007 (BST)
2. keep - love it. doesnt hurt anything.--'BP^Tmz 21:20, 10 July 2007 (BST)
3. keep - my vote --Duke Garland_T^{LCD SSZ} 21:45, 10 July 2007 (BST)
4. Keep - Not sure I buy your numbers but okay. --Magentaine 23:29, 10 July 2007 (BST)
5. Keep - Like it. --The Hierophant 03:34, 11 July 2007 (BST)
6. KeepI like it but maybe players with pking history will be blocked from it to stop pkers using it to their advantage----Timo 1 09:02, 11 July 2007 (BST)
7. Keep - Lessens the need to carry 10 loaded shotguns into combat, so it's good. If this gets implemented, I might start carrying only one shotgun! --Midianian 12:15, 11 July 2007 (BST)
8. Keep Good plan--Seventythree 12:20, 11 July 2007 (BST)
9. Keep This adresses one of my biggest gripes with the shotgun in the game, i vote keep --lenatos 20:59, 11 July 2007 (BST)
10. Keep -- As I don't believe we'll be getting 8 shot semi-auto shotguns anytime soon, this is the next best thing. --Firemanrik 00:36, 12 July 2007 (BST)
11. Keep - I like this firearms suggestion. I think we could use a few more skills and the like. MOAR SKILZ! --_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 06:06, 12 July 2007 (BST)
12. Kepp - I like it. Really useful. -- Zed Hunter 12:35, 12 July 2007 (BST)
13. Keep - Hell yeah. Just like in DOOM. --Murhapuro 15:27, 12 July 2007 (BST)
14. KEEP Great, speed loading is cool and useful.--RayHanley 06:30, 14 July 2007 (BST)

Kill Votes

1. Kill - But if one were to carry many shotguns, this is a pretty decent buff to survivors. If anyone needs a buff, it's the zombies. (all of my UD accounts are survivors by the way, so this is not a zed-fanatic vote.) The way shotguns are now makes them the kind of weapon you spend a lot of AP loading up on and a much smaller amount to kill a bunch of targets at once, which differentiates them from the pistols, which take more AP to kill with but less to load up on clips and reload. This kind of keeps a gun strategy in the game and I don't want to see the gap get closer. (call me crazy, if you wish.) --Vault 21:52, 10 July 2007 (BST)
2. Kill - As above; the zombies need a buff right now, not the survivors. --Saluton 16:45, 11 July 2007 (BST)
3. Kill - Combat in this game is such a fine balance, and right now things seem to be OK. While this is hardly a terrible suggestion, is it a necessary one?--Jiangyingzi 12:22, 13 July 2007 (BST)

   Combat can have fairly arbitrary effectiveness without much impact on game balance. Game updates like Encumbrance and Feeding Drag show that pretty clearly. Given that, the focus should be on making combat fun and rewarding. _. ^. _{. swiers} 14:05, 13 July 2007 (BST)

   No matter how I look at it, this suggestion seems to be a pure benefit to survivors. It can save them a few AP when the zombies break into their safehouses. No big deal, some may say, but remember that one AP spent adding to a barricade is several AP that a given zombie must spend smashing it. Since the core of this game is AP expenditure this small and very reasonable-sounding suggestion could have far-reaching effects.--Jiangyingzi 03:49, 15 July 2007 (BST)

4. Kill - I'm convinced by Jiangyingzi's argument. The balance of the game is finely tuned on many levels. Kevan should considered this mechanism if he things that this are needs tuning, but this should only be included for tuning purposes, not any others. 'arm. 04:28, 15 July 2007 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam - Reads kinda interestingly to me. See I see two things when I read this suggestion. Those two things make me spam this suggestion. Shotguns that deal a higher rate of damage when starting unloaded then claws, how great. That means one shotgun and the survivor gets a better attack in every single way, especially with headshot, even with the requirement to load the ammo, at least according to what you said. Then I look at it more and I see that you also said that it would take 10 AP loaded and 14 AP unloaded, that makes me thing of something else that effectively kills in 10-15 AP once found, except this isn't stopped or slowed by Brain Rot. And then I see the last part, where Shotguns get bumped up to the same rating as a Pistol, but then you get the simple issue of Shotguns allowing you to do more in a single instance because the AP used up to make that ratio is out of combat AP for the most part due to the slower load rate and smaller clip size. Now correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that mean that you are effectively bumping the survivor zombie disposal/kill rate up significantly? Guns that give an effect most assuredly shouldn't be as good as claws that don't.--karek 21:41, 10 July 2007 (BST)

   I think you may be mis-interpreting some of the figures, but that's an issue for the talk page. As I see it, survivors would indeed get a small boost to how much damage they can output as a mass group. And when I say "small" I mean about 1%. I get that from the following; this boosts shotgun shell efficiency by about 10% in terms of efficiency (shotguns you find loaded get no boost), less than half your gun searches turn up shotgun shells, and (assuming you use all the ammo you find) you fire about 6 times as many pistol shots as shotgun. And survivors certainly can't spend all thier AP shooting guns- they really should barricade and revive more.
   Zombies always talk about how hit points don't mean anything to them, so that should not be a concern. And for the minor pain zombies suffer, PKers get a bit of a boost. _. ^. _{. swiers} 00:47, 11 July 2007 (BST)

2. Spam -That last note about boosting PKers- PKers don't need a boost. Secondly, the axe and the knife are the ones that need boosts, not the shotgun. Even if the pistol and axe did equal damage/AP including searching, I for one would still use the pistol and shotgun. Not only are they far better for earning kill XP and clearing buildings (the only reasons any intelligent survivor should be attacking zeds at all) but using both would still do more damage/AP, because pistol damage rates assume you throw away all the shotguns and shotgun shells you find. --AlexanderRM 00:07, 15 July 2007 (BST)
3. This was suggested before....Look in rejected. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 18:15, 16 July 2007 (BST)

   Axe Hack, if you are going to put in a dupe vote it's you that need to look in rejected. Invalid vote struck until link to dupe supplied. 'arm. 23:00, 16 July 2007 (BST)

   Note The only invalid vote that may be struck by regular users is an unsigned vote. Also, while the suggestion itself may only be removed when a link is provided in one of the 3 dupe votes needed, it is always permitted to vote dupe.-- Vista  +1  14:13, 18 July 2007 (BST)