Talk:Blackmore 4(04)

Wanna get an interview? READ

As you've most likely seen on the main page, I've been working on a "Frontline"-esque series of interviews for the event. Right now they consist of a talk with a few of the heavy-hitters (and a few people that were around while I was conducting them); however, I have no qualms with adding more.

If you are interested in having your impressions of the event memorialized on the this page, answer the following questions in the next section.

1. What role did you play in the siege? (include group and profile link)
2. How did you hear about it? What were your expectations?
3. What was your favorite part of the event?
4. What was your least favorite part of the event?
5. What did you think of the opposition?
6. What was your overall impression of the event?
7. Do you see anything of this scale happening in the future?
8. Any other thoughts?

Replies

Agent Sandman

1. What role did you play in the siege? (include group and profile link)

Leader of the Team America strike team of RRF. Also helped lead the final attack on Blackmore. http://urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=1330430

1. How did you hear about it? What were your expectations?

I was in the RRF IRC channel listening to Irish report the difficulties the Constables were having. I was expecting glorious, glorious feasting!

1. What was your favorite part of the event?

I had SEVERAL favorite parts of the siege. First of all, TA pulled what I compared to Patton at the Battle of the Bulge from coming from the far western edge of Malton and running strikes in the Greater Ridleybonk area in under 24 hours.

Then of course the final attack, which as I predicted to TA and the Constables prior, was to be one of the RRF's finest hours, so I channeled Winston Churchill and totally ripped off the end of his "Never Surrender" speech as we prepared for our final push into Blackmore.

Oh, and eating the RRFers who had forsaken the BARHAH and were on the harmanz side was pretty fun too.

1. What was your least favorite part of the event?

I didn't really have a least favorite part after TA arrived, but I'd have to say the same as Irish when the 404ers with RRF alts were accidentally in the RRF channel while the Constables were attacking.

1. What did you think of the opposition?

They tasted like beef. Mmmm..... beef.......

1. What was your overall impression of the event?

What Escape was hyped to be, instead of the Epic Fail it turned out to be.

1. Do you see anything of this scale happening in the future?

Yes. There will be future sieges of Blackmore and we shall eat their brains again!

1. Any other thoughts?

BRAAAAIIIINNNNNZZZ

Justinbronze

  1.  What role did you play in the siege? (include group and profile link)

I brought in a the medium to large POLNGOAK force. Some have told me that without POLNGOAK this couldn't have happened.

  2. How did you hear about it? What were your expectations?

I actually didn't know about it. I found out later when POLNGOAK came around. If I had know something was going down I would have probabley held POLNGOAK somewhere else.

  3. What was your favorite part of the event?

Well.....all of it. It was fun for me to see my event work and also fun to see survivors making a stand in Ridleybank. Sure we didn't break any records but we did pretty good.

  4. What was your least favorite part of the event?

When the zombies finally won. Yes it was inevitable, but I think we could have held out longer. Damn zombies ruined our festivites!

  5. What did you think of the opposition?

Well I don't like zombies at all..period. And now I hate em more for interrupting my game of naked twister.

  6. What was your overall impression of the event?

I was like: Wow, people are actually doing something. And when I realized my event was also working I thought: Wow, I actually did something.

  7. Do you see anything of this scale happening in the future?

Next year I see something bigger: POLNGOAK Take 2. Larger scale POLNGOAK. History gonna be made dammit!

  8. Any other thoughts? 

Well played on both sides and on behalf of the survivors I say: Same time, same place next year?

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Headline text

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Place ideas/Material below here

Random points

404 accidentally arrived in ridley on the 9th, when a member of our group started wandering and scouting the place as a possible target. A few members of the group wanted to try out a new tactic and needed a semi permanently ruined suburb to test it in.

By the 14th, most of us were in place, and we were concentrating on suicide repairing the buildings in the southernmost of the burb, around St. Simon's Hospital. We weren't targeting blackmore (a mid 30ap repair) as it would have really alerted the RRF to our presence. Using these buildings as a bse we continued the high cost repairs around the burb. (Personally I did 4 50+ap suicide repairs in a row and didn't die once). Things were going well. By the 18th we had a large chunl of the place repaired, or with minimal repair costs.

Unfortunately, this was about the time Project Operation Let's Not Get Our Asses Kicked started publicising itself. For a group like 404 this is always a bit of a problem. They do well because by the time zombies know they are there, everything is caded. The last thing we wanted was a swarm of survivors turning up. Plus with the projects start date changing three times, it really just highlighted the fact with no real support. A few people turned up, but no large chunk of survivors.

We reclaimed blackmore on the 19th. Originally we were going to pinata it and leave, but the zombie we were using got accidentally fakked in the confusion, so we decided to hold the place instead. Oh and I don't like the yellow. Can it be red like on the fall of monroeville mall? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:00, 31 August 2010 (BST)

Thanks for the backstory, but the yellow is vintage Battle of Blackmore coding. It stays. ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 00:52, 1 September 2010 (BST)

Very early shot showing Christmas tree and lights. http://iamscott.net/1282189368489.html --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:18, 31 August 2010 (BST)

Heres the CR of Globule-- Rolfe Steiner ^{Talk | Creedy Guerrilla Raiders} 20:31, 31 August 2010 (BST)

I'd appreciate it if you removed any references there are of 404 with me. After the way in which they ousted ( read backstabbed ), I no longer wish to be associated with the group in any way, shape, or form.-- Rolfe Steiner ^{Talk | Creedy Guerrilla Raiders} 23:27, 7 September 2010 (BST)

Dumbwit NT Scans

http://iamscott.net/1282377669992.html

http://iamscott.net/1282557155763.html

http://iamscott.net/1282627764590.html

http://iamscott.net/1282728464991.html

http://iamscott.net/128275179567.html

http://iamscott.net/1282855671925.html

http://iamscott.net/1282993635867.html

--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:18, 31 August 2010 (BST)

Scent map during the siege

View at the fall (joined the fray only after there were 59 zeds in)

Scent map after the fall

-- Spiderzed▋ 20:29, 31 August 2010 (BST)

In The Big Prick's defense...

... we didn't anticipate that Project Operation Whatever would gather so many people (and Zs), or amount to much of anything. We just thought that we'd head down to Ridleybank, maybe repair a few buildings, maybe join up with 404, DEM, or one of the other established groups that seemed to be headed that way, and maybe make a small nuisance of ourselves. TBP doesn't do very well in sieges, although this one was kind of fun.

Basically, I think the consensus is that the advertising involved in Project Operation Whatever may have screwed up more subtle plans that other groups had for Ridleybank. And the siege didn't last quite long enough to relieve the other burbs of their burdens, so I'm not really sure we accomplished much of anything. Asheets 20:24, 31 August 2010 (BST)

TBP where one of the reasons that the RP remained almost completely clear for the entire event. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 20:28, 31 August 2010 (BST)

Image:Bellow.jpg The range of bellow centred on blackmore. Its about 22% of the city. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 20:33, 31 August 2010 (BST)

Not accomplished much of anything? I think the recall of the majority of the RRF will have a big effect on the area they were operating in, letting the survivors have breathing space to rebuild. We did the single standout siege of probably the past couple of years, wiped away the stain of failure [Escape] had on the survivor psyche, and done some of the biggest mass Combat revives ON THE SPOT with little to no planning that I've personally ever seen. Maybe, you sir, are too jaded and cynical to see exactly what an accomplishment these 13 days were.-- Rolfe Steiner ^{Talk | Creedy Guerrilla Raiders} 20:38, 31 August 2010 (BST)

You need to put it all in perspective. The event diverted the RRF back to its homeland from its merry carnage. Thats a big thing. But more importantly, do a NT scan of of the surrounding burbs. Galbraith hills is a good example. Theres hardly a zombie on the street. Repeated bellows from blackmore diverted every ferals attention to the homeland. At the start of the week they had 50 or 60 in each. Now its a lot less. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 20:44, 31 August 2010 (BST)

And looking through all the records I can, the last time blackmore was held for 13 and a bit days or anywhere near it was January 26th, 2008 --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 20:56, 31 August 2010 (BST)

Maybe I have become a bit jaded. Thanks for helping me put this in a bit of perspective. Asheets 15:48, 1 September 2010 (BST)

You would not believe the number of local NT's up at this time. Its scary. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 16:50, 1 September 2010 (BST)

Yeah. Central Malton (even parts of Ridleybank) actually looks safe in places. Haven't seen that in well... ages. ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 17:00, 1 September 2010 (BST)

Put it this way: These days, you can take down malls with 20 ferals. And it took 140 or so zombies to take down Blackmore, in Ridleybank. --Wraith 04:51, 6 September 2010 (BST)

Iwits taken during the siege

http://iamscott.net/1281571621521.html http://iamscott.net/1282189368489.html http://iamscott.net/1282546931710.html http://iamscott.net/128256686929.html http://iamscott.net/1282566888482.html http://iamscott.net/1282569152497.html http://iamscott.net/1282602344478.html http://iamscott.net/128263247093.html http://iamscott.net/1282686540676.html http://iamscott.net/1282683672360.html http://iamscott.net/1282719622410.html http://iamscott.net/1282769696709.html http://iamscott.net/1282774037127.html http://iamscott.net/1282797825916.html http://iamscott.net/1282806301479.html http://iamscott.net/1282810270505.html http://iamscott.net/1282825402756.html http://iamscott.net/1282825439706.html http://iamscott.net/1282825289340.html http://iamscott.net/1282843019866.html http://iamscott.net/1282860819283.html http://iamscott.net/1282899862677.html http://iamscott.net/1282904375347.html http://iamscott.net/1282958931427.html http://iamscott.net/1282950456410.html http://iamscott.net/1282995018979.html http://iamscott.net/1282993635867.html http://iamscott.net/1282993603857.html http://iamscott.net/1283047088336.html http://iamscott.net/1283062412921.html http://iamscott.net/1283073228471.html http://iamscott.net/1283073517294.html http://iamscott.net/128310060928.html http://iamscott.net/1283176193972.html http://iamscott.net/1283123155628.html http://iamscott.net/1283137446575.html http://iamscott.net/1283188690640.html http://iamscott.net/1283208011191.html http://iamscott.net/1283225895713.html http://iamscott.net/1283197302570.html http://iamscott.net/1283228686167.html http://iamscott.net/1283228704791.html http://iamscott.net/1283242413837.html -- Rolfe Steiner ^{Talk | Creedy Guerrilla Raiders} 20:57, 31 August 2010 (BST)

A few moar iwits from Cadwah's perspective. http://iamscott.net/1283237353609.html http://iamscott.net/1283202829560.html http://iamscott.net/1283209446110.html -- Rolfe Steiner ^{Talk | Creedy Guerrilla Raiders} 22:26, 2 September 2010 (BST)

Plus these (unsorted):

  http://pastebin.com/6PV8wwiC

Sorted and labeled for ease:

• Christmas decor
• Day three/100 hours celebration
• Noo! Not the lights!
• Speech
• Twister Notes
• Sky Rockets
• Randomness and twister and Globule revived (Oh my!)
• More talking + GKers
• Humanphagia
• Large Break-in
• More Albert, Humanphagia, and breakin
• Glob as human
• Killjoys (DC)
• Survivor count
• RRF make weird survivors
• As above + extra
• Moloch+chatting
• Break in fixed in nine or three minutes.
• Noo! Not the lights!: The Sequel
• NT scan
• Ladies
• Burgundy toast
• Yon's arrival
• Pibbit Monologue
• NT scan
• Humanphagia sings
• Toolbox kill

Oddest siege

• Amber waves of pain
• Wasabee
• Nearing Coda...
• Humanphagia bows out
• Final Break-in
• Endgame
• More endgame
• Third perspective
• Fine.
• Near final survivor count

~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 22:06, 4 September 2010 (BST)

http://udwitness.oddnetwork.org/private/2010/08/udw-20100810-055736-e8923cc46b1a09a8591c42cf141d1494-pk4lyf.html - Taken August 10th, posted on barhah.com, and ignored as survivor silliness. --VVV ^RPMBG 06:53, 11 September 2010 (BST)

0.o Are... Are you serious? Nice find. ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 08:03, 11 September 2010 (BST)

Result

I would change the result section, which currently reads "Zombie Victory". I would change it into something like "Zombies overwhelmed the survivors after 12 days" giving it more of a summary. Reasoning behind this is that modern sieges aren't about victory or loss in the traditional sense, back in the early years of UD. Sieges can never be won by survivors, it's about lasting as long as they can.--Thadeous Oakley 21:23, 31 August 2010 (BST)

too many quotes

that is all. -- LEMON #1 00:54, 1 September 2010 (BST)

This is what I get for saying "free to edit" : /. Don't worry, I'll trim them down to the better ones. ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 00:55, 1 September 2010 (BST)

My line wasn't really all that memorable.--ZIPO/Talk/◆◆◆/CAPD 05:36, 1 September 2010 (BST)

Maybe turn any that fit into pithy entry sections under each header. --  RoosterDragon  06:52, 1 September 2010 (BST)

You mean like an opening quote for each section? Good idea. ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 06:54, 1 September 2010 (BST)

Yeah, that looks mucho better. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:01, 1 September 2010 (BST)

One Final Point

26th of August was the date of the largest break in we suffered (other than the final attack) we had 18 zombies inside against 70 survivors. Cading was impossible, and it was only a massed combat revive that kept us in the fight. Desperate times, as the doors were wide open and we had been bellowed! Soon after this the rrf, and the constables particularly started hitting the trp's instead. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:18, 1 September 2010 (BST)

Relevant, pretty mental screenshot --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:19, 1 September 2010 (BST)

Pointless fact

Approximately 500 DNA extractors were discarded during the siege. If we'd used them to barricade we might have lasted another day! --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:48, 1 September 2010 (BST)

Well if we want worthless:

12:48, 27 August 2010 (BST) 25.96 MHz: "... crossing Ridleybank now, can see over a hundred down there ... a horde of over a hundred outside the Blackmore Building ... a few buildings with lights on ... most of the buildings are ruined ..." (2 hours and 28 minutes ago)

--  RoosterDragon  12:11, 1 September 2010 (BST)

more (probably unwelcome) input

I think it's coming along nicely, I'd suggest adding some fun RPing images in there, just like what was done with the older battles, and maybe putting the interviews onto a separate page, but leaving a few select questions/answers from the more memorable users interviewed liek glob and irish and shit. A lot of the other people I like, but honestly, don't care about what they have to say ;D Just my opinion on style and aesthetics atm. -- LEMON #1 15:40, 4 September 2010 (BST)

Good Lord... What have I gotten myself into?

Just kidding. I've been busy this week and might actually have some time to polish it up over Labor Day weekend. If you have any images in particular, go ahead and post/suggest them. ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 20:14, 4 September 2010 (BST)

Nice. I did a few minutes of googling while I was procrastinating and found a few images you might be ablne to use. BTW the current ones rock, keep them up!

Possible combat reviver:

Possible Bellowing image:

General intro image?

-- LEMON #1 02:50, 7 September 2010 (BST)

Yes! You added my favourite one of the kiddy combat reviver!! -- LEMON #1 04:45, 8 September 2010 (BST)

Bellow

Sorry, where's this arbitrary 22% come from? The screenshot shows 21*21, which is 441. That's only 4.41% of the city. Surely I'm right? I can see no reason it would be 22%, because that would be 22 suburbs.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 21:07, 4 September 2010 (BST)

User talk:Red Hawk One/Sandbox 3#In The Big Prick's defense.... Third Comment =/. ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 21:20, 4 September 2010 (BST)

I knew it. Disgraceful...--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 21:23, 4 September 2010 (BST)

oooooooooooooooooooooooooopppppppps! I always was untrustable. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:29, 4 September 2010 (BST)

Well, there goes your support in next months Bureaucrat election. You might as well resign now. :( --User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 21:37, 4 September 2010 (BST)

And concede to anyone else? Never. Be nice to me or I'll demote you on the dil wiki. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:50, 4 September 2010 (BST)

=O Nevar! But seriously, that website needs transparency. Half the mods haven't edited a page since March.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 22:02, 4 September 2010 (BST)

make my account a op trust me, i've done heaps of edits -- LEMON #1 02:47, 7 September 2010 (BST)

I just read this, and, in retrospect, I thought Ross was yelling "Ops!"--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 10:28, 11 September 2010 (BST)

Groups' listing

Perhaps it should be cleaned up a bit? Alpha order or some such, rather than a copy/paste from the danger report? Otherwise, looks great. —Aichon— 03:17, 8 September 2010 (BST)

I may have read too much World War Z...

...but the part where Bellow could have played both a positive and negative boost in the recent Blackmore siege reminded me a lot of the Redeker Plan from that novel.

That is, by calling every zombie and their friends to Blackmore, the surrounding suburbs were fit to be reclaimed. A similar although guided instance happened in the battle of Pitneybank, when nearly the entirety of the suburb map turned green when the Big Bash and its accompanying feral cloud got stuck on Giddings.

Fat chance we can actually implement that in the game with most of the unorganized survivors implementing river tactics instead. But for the organized survivor groups, it may just be possible.

Imagine a survivor hotspot in the middle of four suburbs, such an NT-hospital-police station cluster or an NT-mall cluster. The combat-capable survivors would camp out there and instead of preventing it from happening, actually encourage occasional bellowing which would draw out ferals from the four suburbs. They should be extremely watchful to maintain the barricades at all times. Meanwhile the support survivors would keep them steadily running by supplying gennies/fuel and medical support.

Of course this all falls apart when an organized zombie group does a timed strike like in the endgame of Blackmore 4(04). But against feral zombies and with decent organization, there's a chance they will be able to hold out indefinitely. With a hundred suburbs, think of it as a potential for over two dozen Blackmore-like hotspots on the map. --Aeon17x 11:54, 9 September 2010 (BST)

404 even discussed a plan where a bellow was engineered near the edge of a ghost town to draw ferals out before reclamation. Its an interesting tactic to say the least. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:07, 9 September 2010 (BST)

A modest partial rewrite

I was talking with Moonie a bit, and he was pointing out a handful of factual issues with the article as it is now which most of us survivors really didn't know but which are now being raised by those from the zombie side of things (e.g. the "full RRF" never arrived, GC didn't make official strikes, AU10's involvement, etc.). Most of it could be easily addressed to the satisfaction of both sides with just a few extra words here and there (e.g. "some members of the Gore Corps" instead of "the Gore Corps" or "large portion of the RRF" instead of "the RRF" or "full RRF").

Anyway, while I was going through and making some changes like those, I also starting tidying up a few other things. And then formatting numbers and the like. And then rewriting a handful of sentences here and there. And then entire paragraphs. In the end, I kinda have a new draft of the page with a lot of rewording, but very little change in the stuff that gets covered, and I wanted to run it by here. Check my Sandbox.

It's not a complete rewrite by any means, but I did want to rephrase some stuff now that I've had a chance to hear opinions over at the voting page and in IRC that come from the other side. I apologize for not having the presence of mind to make any of these suggestions back before it was taken it to voting, but I honestly thought it was fine then. I simply changed my mind a bit and think that it can be bettered now, and this is one attempt at doing so. As an aside, I've told Moonie he's welcome to make any changes to it that he sees fit, so he might correct a few mistakes I made, since we were still working through logs to clear up some of the details on timing of various things. —Aichon— 09:54, 10 September 2010 (BST)

This is the downside of having an event go up for voting only a week after it ended. It is somewhat quick. What you could do is withdraw the nomination, iron out any differences between you, RedHawkOne, Moonie, and whomever in the narrative, tighten up the NPOV to everyone's satisfaction, and then resubmit. If it is truly 'historical', waiting a couple of weeks shouldn't effect the vote, and would actually be better in some ways as the community would have time to reflect on the event's place in Malton's history, without being 'caught up in the moment' as it were. -MHSstaff 16:51, 10 September 2010 (BST)

It can always be resubmitted later, so there's little disincentive to submit it as soon as it is perceived to be ready. Given that he hadn't received any further suggestions for a few days regarding major things that needed to change in the article, I'd say it was reasonable of him to put it up for voting when he did. But we did recently create a policy for Historical Groups to have to wait for a few months after they go inactive before they can be put up for vote, for just such reasons. Events were decided against being included in that policy. —Aichon— 17:49, 10 September 2010 (BST)

The other thing that you and RedHawkOne may want to consider, is if you have screenshots or more details for things like "failed FAK attempt" for the pinata or for some of the other event references that are made in the article but are not really explained or linked, that could make it a little bit better as far as context/detail. I'd also consider adding some detail as to what tactic 404 was trying out, otherwise there isn't much point in mentioning it if you are not going to talk about it. -MHSstaff 17:32, 10 September 2010 (BST)

Personally, I prefer to leave some of those things in there, even if there isn't evidence of them, just because it adds some context to what they were doing at the time by establishing motive and intent. That said, I am by no means a chronicler. I'm just a guy who came along and reworded a few things here and there to make it sound more to my liking and be a bit more NPOV. I'm as likely to have screenshots from those days of the event as you are. :P —Aichon— 17:49, 10 September 2010 (BST)

Sure. It's just when I see things like "failed FAK attempt," I immediately think "totally awesome, humorous 404 backstory behind that" and that RedHawkOne is holding out on us. -MHSstaff 17:57, 10 September 2010 (BST)

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I think the story behind the accidental FAK was that whichever one of them was supposed to be a zombie FAKed himself without thinking, taking away his infection. As a result, he couldn't kill himself and get back inside, since the other guys had been eagerly barricading already, so he just ended up staying alive and helping out. Not sure on the details though, since I wasn't around that early in the event. —Aichon— 18:41, 10 September 2010 (BST)

Talk to rolfe. He was there. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:51, 11 September 2010 (BST)

New Edits

I made some grammatical and style changes to make it, in my mind, more readable, less POV and less judgemental (i.e. how is POLNGOAK's effort any-more ill-fated than 404's effort for example?). Feel free to change any that you disagree with; just let me know why. Also, for the aftermath, is there any proof about bellows draining the surrounding suburbs or is all that just random conjecture? - MHSstaff 20:33, 11 September 2010 (BST)

You made a few small grammatical errors, but when I was fixing them and clicked 'show changes', it took out chunks of text. It's creepy! --VVV ^RPMBG 20:52, 11 September 2010 (BST)

The article is clearly cursed. We should nuke it from orbit; it's the only way to be sure. -MHSstaff 20:54, 11 September 2010 (BST)

On the day after blackmore fell the following NT's were up. the Hind Building and surrounding area. (Because 404 had set it up 2 days before as a fallback), both NT's in Stanbury Village, (404 scouting and revival) 3 in barrville (404 scouting again) Galbraith Hills, although lacking NT's was almost totally repaired AND powered. (My own scouting) --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:01, 11 September 2010 (BST)

While all of that is extremely hot and sexy, it has little to do with answering the question as to whether or not bellows drained the surrounded areas of zombies. If your reports say that they did, that's perfectly fine and I'll accept that but it seems like somewhat of a large, sweeping statement to make (bellows concentrating all the zombies at Blackmore). From my forgetful memory, it seemed like we were able to trash the Greater Ridleybank somewhat quickly after Blackmore. -MHSstaff 21:10, 11 September 2010 (BST)

Nevermind, the numbers and general argument about bellows is in the section above. -MHSstaff 21:24, 11 September 2010 (BST)

No argument, is indeed good, besides if it wasn't reclaimed, how could you have trashed it? :) --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:53, 11 September 2010 (BST)

That sounds suspiciously like logic and/or common sense, which has no place, whatsoever, on the Urban Dead wiki. You have been duly warned, good sir. But I dig what you are saying. -MHSstaff 22:01, 11 September 2010 (BST)

Plus, having the surrounding area ruined quickly after the fall of a key building is a natural consequence of Dam Tactics in modern usage, which is what was at play here, basically, though no one really went in with the intention of using Blackmore that way. We see it all the time at Caiger, for instance, each time it falls every few months. Darvall Heights gets wrecked about 90% of the time in the 2-3 days after Caiger falls (or, in the case of a horde coming through, 0-1 days). —Aichon— 07:39, 12 September 2010 (BST)