Developing Suggestions

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Developing Suggestions

This section is for general discussion of suggestions for the game Urban Dead.

It also includes the capacity to pitch suggestions for conversation and feedback.

Further Discussion

• Discussion concerning this page takes place here.
• Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general, including policies about it, takes place here.

Resources

• The Frequently Suggested List
• Suggestions Dos and Do Nots

How To Make a Discussion

Adding a New Discussion

To add a general discussion topic, please add a Tier 3 Header (===Example===) below, with your idea or proposal.

Adding a New Suggestion

• To add a new suggestion proposal, copy the code in the box below.
• Click here to begin editing. This is the same as clicking the [edit] link to the right of the Suggestions header.

• Paste the copied text above the other suggestions, right under the heading.
• Substitute the text in RED CAPITALS with the details of your suggestion.
• The process is illustrated in this image.

{{subst:DevelopingSuggestion
|time=~~~~
|name=SUGGESTION NAME
|type=TYPE HERE
|scope=SCOPE HERE
|description=DESCRIPTION HERE
}}

• Name - Give the suggestion a short but descriptive name.
• Type is the nature of the suggestion, such as a new class, skill change, balance change.
• Scope is who or what the suggestion affects. Typically survivors or zombies (or both), but occasionally Malton, the game interface or something else.
• Description should be a full explanation of your suggestion. Include information like flavor text, search odds, hit percentages, etc, as appropriate. Unless you are as yet unsure of the exact details behind the suggestion, try not to leave out anything important. Check your spelling and grammar.

Cycling Suggestions

• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past month may be cycled without notice.

Please add new discussions and suggestions to the top of the list

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Suggestions

Relentless

Timestamp: 20:48, 19 October 2010 (BST)

Type: New skill

Scope: Zombies

Description: Relentless would be a new zombie skill, underneath Ankle Grab. Zombies with the skill who suffer a headshot have a flat 50% chance of ignoring the effects of it, and being able to stand up without the additional 5AP cost. This would not be reflected in flavour text given to those who kill the zombie, who would still see the standard "They take a headshot and die" text. However, the zombie with the skill, if it succeeds, will see the following text: You took a headshot from Trenchcoat the Zombie Hunter, but your relentless drive kept you going! (10 minutes ago)

Discussion (Relentless)

I'd prefer a time mechanic, so if you were shot in the last hour you can ignore it. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:14, 19 October 2010 (BST)

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Frenzy

Timestamp: 20:48, 19 October 2010 (BST)

Type: New skill

Scope: Zombies

Description: Frenzy would be a new zombie skill, unconnected to any skill tree. Zombies with the skill who kill a survivor will, if other survivors are present at the same location (inside the same building if inside, outside in the same block if outside), gain a +10% increase to their claw and bite attacks until, for any reason, there are no more survivors at the same location. This could occur through characters moving away or through all the survivors being killed. This bonus is also lost if the zombie is killed. The +10% does stack with Tangling Grasp. Upon killing a survivor and gaining the bonus: You maul Benito Cereno for 3 damage. They die. You look up from the body in a frenzy. Upon attacking with frenzy, without grasp: You maul Benito Cereno frenziedly for 3 damage, and grab hold of them. Upon attacking with frenzy and grasp: Gripping Benito Cereno by the shoulders, you crush them frenziedly for 3 damage. Upon losing frenzy due to lack of targets: There is no more flesh to gorge on. Your frenzy subsides. Upon losing frenzy due to death (message given when standing up): You stand up, your frenzy subsiding.

Discussion (Frenzy)

"You look up from the body in a frenzy." Don't like that. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:16, 19 October 2010 (BST)

I was in a hurry. King Kong's finger was pointing. "Your hunger drives you into a frenzy"? 21:17, 19 October 2010 (BST)

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Tire Iron

Time October18/10 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ltthompson (talk • contribs) 19:12, 18 October 2010.

Type New item safe house option

Scope Item Decorations

Description A new melee item and decoration.

My idea is a tire iron to find at a carpark especially. Also putting crucifixes up on the walls of safe houses.

Discussion (Tire Iron)

Tire Irons can already be found in Carparks only they are called Crowbars in the UD universe. Also, you may want to read through Suggestions Dos and Do Nots before adding a developing suggestion. --~ 01:51, 19 October 2010 (BST)

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Advanced Lab Experience

Timestamp: Aeon17x 07:15, 18 October 2010 (BST)

Type: New science skill

Scope: Survivors

Description: It's easier to express the idea with the flavor upfront, here goes: Memo to NecroTech staff: the usage of NecroNet terminals to revivify specimens with Brain Rot can also be applied on other subjects without it to expedite the revivification process. Expert staff now have reduced revivification costs when reviving subjects without Brain Rot inside a powered NecroTech building. Advanced Lab Experience is a new science skill which concerns revives inside a powered NT building. It costs 75 XP for scientists, 100 XP for civilians or 150 XP for military, and requires NecroNet Access as a prerequisite. It works like this: Advanced Lab Experience - Player only spends 8AP to revive zombies without Brain Rot inside a powered NT building. Revive costs for zombies with Brain Rot is still of course 10 AP. I just thought this could make NT sieges a lot more fun. The invading horde should make sure to keep the generator non-existant at all times, or else they could see up to six revives per survivor per day at 8AP/revive (from the current four at 10 AP/revive) whenever they try a beachhead inside the NT. Another benefit for survivors is that it makes indoor revive points on NTs easier: just drop a genny, fuel it up and you can revive a half dozen zeds in a day. On the other hand this does make zombies with Brain Rot more valuable for the horde, as besides the immunity from non-powered revives they also soak in more AP even when they do get revived inside a powered NT. Also even if survivors set an NT as an indoor revive point, that means it's one NT they would not sleep in and search on since if there are zombies inside it's likely to be regularly ruined too, and the horde would be more focused attacking the NTs which are resource points. Besides that, outside of powered NT buildings this won't do much really other than a shift to longer NT sieges. And if we could have this skill at a future Blackmore siege I believe it'll be thoroughly entertaining for both sides.

Discussion (Advanced Lab Experience)

This won't be popular with zombies and death cultists what with all the extra combat revives on offer here, but I can see a logic behind giving a slight advantage to people fighting on their 'home turf'. However, this idea has already been suggested (and passed too). ~~ Chief Seagull ~~ ^talk 10:48, 18 October 2010 (BST)

Wow, d'oh for me I guess. Even the AP cost is the same. But since it's on peer reviewed already... yayification! --Aeon17x 12:00, 18 October 2010 (BST)

I'm just wondering if this sort of idea has been suggested for other classes, such as police or firefighters. ~~ Chief Seagull ~~ ^talk 18:00, 18 October 2010 (BST)

You mean, like, reduced cost for handcuffing/firehosing a zombie? ~m ^T! 01:15, 19 October 2010 (BST)

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Concentration

Timestamp: --~ 07:22, 16 October 2010 (BST)

Type: New Skill

Scope: Survivors.

Description: At the cost of 15AP, one can choose to more heavily concentrate on their attacks. Concentration gives an extra +5% to hit with all types of attacks. Concentration is broken when the player sleeps, dies or idles.

Discussion (Concentration)

Good idea or bad? I can see this not only being useful in seiges but also helping newbie survivors. Doesn't seem overpowered to me right off the bat. --~ 07:22, 16 October 2010 (BST)

Define "sleeps".  Swiers 07:24, 16 October 2010 (BST)

Exhausted, you can go no further.--~ 07:27, 16 October 2010 (BST)

Easy. I assume I have a AP cap of 49. I never sleep, my concentration lasts quite awhile. --VVV ^RPMBG 07:41, 16 October 2010 (BST)

If you were like me, you'd always be playing until you had 1 or 2 AP left, 'cause at 2AP, it only takes 24 hours to get back to 50. I do this because I usually play UD at a certain time, using the extra AP or 2 in emergencies only. But that's just me. As Trips above, I would have this bonus for quite some time. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 17:16, 16 October 2010 (BST)

Yeah, I always keep that spare AP just to be able to look around. Besides, even if the suggestion was that the effect lasted for 50AP, I'd still think it's too overpowered. ~m ^T! 02:39, 18 October 2010 (BST)

Seems okay in principle, but I'm not sure about it lasting until you die/sleep. My own personal preference would be a smaller initial cost but having the effect only lasting for X amount of AP. ~~ Chief Seagull ~~ ^talk 11:06, 18 October 2010 (BST)

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Ankle Bite

Timestamp: --~ 05:24, 15 October 2010 (BST)

Type: New Skill

Scope: Zombies

Description: The ankles of another player are attacked, slowing their progress. Moving to adjacent squares costs twice as much AP until player is healed. This would be a new skill under the Lurching Gait skill tree, just below Ankle Grab (for obvious reasons) -or- it would be a skill under the Vigour Mortis skill tree since it is an attack. Your ankle is badly injured. Movement now costs an additional 1 AP. and You lose 1 AP to your injured ankle.

Discussion (Ankle Bite)

I probably could have thought of a better name but I kept picturing an ankle biting chiuahua and couldn't resist. I'm not terribly dedicated to that name. I think that there should be a 2AP cap, which is to say if you are a zombie without Lurching Gait, your movement will still only cost you 2AP. In fact, maybe death should be a temporary cure for a smitten ankle like infection, only to reoccur when revived.--~ 05:24, 15 October 2010 (BST)

You know I was considering putting this exact same mechanic up over the weekend, only flavoured as heavy bleeding (with the caveat that entering a building would raise its bloodstains too). So yeah, I like it. I'd have it as a Vigor tree skill and let it create a new attack with the same to-hit rate and damage as bite, to mirror the 'attack with effects' thing. 05:27, 15 October 2010 (BST)

That's an interesting spin on AP damage as well. If the concept of ankle biting zombies is too silly then maybe it could be developed with different flavor. --~ 05:40, 15 October 2010 (BST)

Don't put it into bite, it's already feature-packed as is. Perhaps a claw skill under tangling grasp, which for the purpose of making incredibly bad puns I shall call Ankle Grip.

Also the slowly losing points mechanic is getting old, especially if it can be fixed just the same as infection. How about something like a one-time 5 AP cost to break free from a zombie who has ankle gripped a survivor? This could be distressing if you wake up with zombies in your safehouse and you can't get out since one of them really held onto you, you have to either kill them, revive them or spend 5AP in one turn to break free. --Aeon17x 05:52, 15 October 2010 (BST)

That's not a bad idea either. Puts it more in line with Headshot. I like --~ 06:30, 15 October 2010 (BST)

Double movement costs until healed. Simple, doesn't get confused with Infection. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 13:06, 15 October 2010 (BST)

What are the accuracy, damage of this attack? Would it work on fellow zombies? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 13:08, 15 October 2010 (BST)

I'm thinking same HRP for infection. Make it a claw attack instead of a bite attack. Clawing has a chance to break ankle. It's either that or keep it as a bite attack and you get a chance to either infect or to bite ankle. I suppose you could even do both. Bite for a chance to infect and then bite again until you bite ankle, meaning someone could limp around infected until they FAK. And yeah since it's basically infection, one could break a zombie ankle. Just don't allow movement costs over 2AP. So if zombie does not yet have Lurching Gait, an injured ankle has no effect.--~ 15:51, 15 October 2010 (BST)

I'd say make it a third attack after claw and bite, not attached to one of those. 15:55, 15 October 2010 (BST)

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Move Rules

Timestamp: Sargent Havok 10:54, 14 October 2010 (BST)

Type:

Scope:

Description: Survivors can enter/leave buildings with Barricades higher than VSB but now it costs more AP to do so: HB: 2 AP to enter/leave VHB: 3 AP to enter/leave EHB: 4 AP to enter/leave This counts ANY time a survivor leaves or enters, even if they don’t use the door. Walking out of a building to an empty square would also cost the extra AP. Zombies would also pay this cost for leaving a building without using the door. They can’t use the door on a barricaded building anyway, but they would still have to pay the extra for “escaping” a barricaded building higher than VSB. Free-Running would now cost the same extra AP shown above to use, based on the building you are leaving. So if you try to Free-Run into another building from an EHB building, it would cost 4 AP to do so. The Barricade level/Ruin status of the building you are entering does not matter. Survivors with the Scout Safehouse skill would pay 1 less AP for entering/leaving any building they had scouted. That is: HB or less: 1 AP VHB: 2 AP EHB: 3 AP

Discussion (Move Rules)

• looks at suggestor's profile* So I guess you died when you got locked out of your safehouse? Learn to plan your escape in advance. --Aeon17x 11:19, 14 October 2010 (BST)

• Yeah, sorry, this will never pass. The main form of griefing for revived zombies is being able to overbarricade buildings. Taking that away will do a few things: 1. Remove Piñata strategy for zombies. 2. Reduce the number of survivors on the streets (slowing Bahbah zombie growth) and 3. Will take away half the reason of being a Death Cultist. You're only a level one, it gets easier once you have Free Running. Otherwise, always remember to save 10AP to find a building to hide in. Shadok ^{T Balance is power} 11:36, 14 October 2010 (BST)

You know this just shits all over non-survivors right? 15:06, 14 October 2010 (BST)

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Hibernation

Timestamp: Aeon17x 12:58, 13 October 2010 (BST)

Type: New zombie skill, crossover (survivors can also use it)

Scope: Dead bodies with this skill

Description: Hibernation is a new zombie skill which takes effect when the player is dead. It costs 100XP, and requires Ankle Grab as a prerequisite. It works like this: Hibernation - Player spends an extra 4AP to stand up, in exchange for an increased AP recovery rate while dead. With the Hibernation skill, the dead body would gain 1AP every 24 minutes instead of 1AP every 30 minutes. It applies to dead bodies from killed survivors and zombies as well as revivifying bodies. When they stand up they have to spend an extra 4AP for a 5AP stand up cost (10AP if headshot), the increased AP recovery stops and they return to the usual 1AP every 30 minutes rate. Who is this skill for? Basically speaking, nearly everyone. Literally every player in this game is dead at one point or another, and would benefit from a little AP boost while dead so that they could actually do more when they stand up. There is a caveat though: because of the 4AP extra stand up cost, you have to sleep for at least eight hours to break even. Otherwise you'll end up with *less* AP than if you only have Ankle Grab. For this reason ?rise zombies might want to skip the skill altogether, since when they stand up they do it for 5/10 AP instead of 1/6 AP. How is this balanced? Well I did some very rough math, and while it won't convince anyone who believes tweaking with the AP recovery rate shouldn't be done at all, here it is. The maximum AP count is still 50AP. This is important as it means you can only do up to 50AP worth of actions in a single turn. What's different is that you get to that amount faster when dead. w/out Hibernation: 50 AP in 25 hours with Hibernation: 50 AP in 20 hours However you have to take into account you have to stand up first before you could do, well, anything. stand up - w/out Hibernation: 49 AP in 25 hours (50 AP in 25.5 hours) with Hibernation: 45 AP in 20 hours (49 AP in 22 hours, 50 AP in 22.5 hours) stand up with Headshot - w/out Hibernation - 44 AP in 25 hours (50 AP in 28 hours) with Hibernation: 40 AP in 20 hours (44 AP in 22 hours, 50 AP in 25 hours) All in all, Hibernation allows you to gain the same amount of AP as without Hibernation by three hours less, or a 6 AP advantage. But only if you actually stay dead for nearly a full day, and wait a couple of hours from standing up before spending the rest of your AP. Also of note is that 6AP is the maximum amount you can save with this skill. The shorter you stay dead, the less AP you get from the increased AP recovery rate from Hibernation. stand up immediately instead of staying dead - behind by 4 AP 2 hours - behind by 3 AP 4 hours - behind by 2 AP 6 hours - behind by 1 AP 8 hours - break even 10 hours - ahead by 1 AP 12 hours - ahead by 2 AP 14 hours - ahead by 3 AP 16 hours - ahead by 4 AP 18 hours - ahead by 5 AP 20 hours - ahead by 6 AP Now to answer the question of how this is balanced: just from the skill alone, it's not. (Then again, if it's perfectly balanced, why add it to the game at all? :-P) But from the corresponding gameplay changes the players would have to assume if ever they pick up the skill, it could be. Imagine sieges. This skill is favorable to the survivors to a certain extent: zombies with Hibernation would be in a disadvantage if they stand up in less than eight hours as that would mean a net AP loss than if they only had Ankle Grab. They now have to stay dead longer, meaning less zombies would be standing up at any given time and presenting more opportunities for survivors to hold their ground against the horde and defend territory. Revivifying bodies would also benefit from the skill a lot due to the increased AP recovery rate, leading to quicker (or at least stronger) reinforcements for survivors. For zombies, it serves as a counter to Headshot if they nap in the dirt long enough and stand up just as you reach 50 AP. Even more so if you are into negative AP, perhaps from a previous headshot or bellowing too hard; from -15 AP you can get back to 50 AP in about 26 hours. That's about it. This suggestion got a bit longer than I would like, but I think it's an interesting mechanic to say the least.

Discussion (Hibernation)

This breaks one of the golden rules mentioned on the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots - leave your own AP alone. ~~ Chief Seagull ~~ ^talk 15:31, 13 October 2010 (BST)

I always thought of Ankle Grab as a +9 AP boost to dying. --Aeon17x 15:49, 13 October 2010 (BST)

Ah, but Kevan's allowed to do that cos he's the Lord and Creator of Malton ☺ ~~ Chief Seagull ~~ ^talk 16:20, 13 October 2010 (BST)

The difference there (and with Gait) is that it changes the cost of something, rather than changing the recharge rate, which is bad territory. 16:30, 13 October 2010 (BST)

Don't Ankle Grab and Scout Safehouse do so, too? Anyway, I like this. I'd even risk saying I'd like it better if it were my previously undefined XP-spending skill. 5 XP instead of 4 extra AP, anyone? Or in addition? ~m ^T! 23:30, 13 October 2010 (BST)

The problem with any XP burning skill is that some players just have too much of them. To provide them any sort of gameplay-altering capability might as well lead to a virtually permanent buff to those players.

For example, if Hibernation only requires 5 XP and no extra AP loss, those players can stand up with full AP in 20 hours. They can very easily recover the 5 XP with the AP boost from dying. Now if you put both a 5 XP and a 4 extra AP loss for Hibernation, then low-level players would find the skill has a very high penalty to use and still only high-level players will bother to learn it. See what I'm getting at? --Aeon17x 09:02, 14 October 2010 (BST)

Yes, I see what you mean. The way I think, tho, these skills are designed for high-level players, tho maybe not as much as headshot, which requires level 10. These skills, on the other hand, would certainly disencourage lower level characters, but not barr them. I'd rather see both the 5 XP and 4 AP cost, tho. ~m ^T! 19:24, 14 October 2010 (BST)

You can't have skills designed just for high level players. Headshot is an anomaly as to why it's there in the first place, but don't use it to justify breaking the game even more. --Aeon17x 01:25, 15 October 2010 (BST)

Aside from the issues already raised, there is one other problem: you should always give the players a choice if they're going to be doing something potentially detrimental to themselves. Since this is a passive skill (i.e. you always hibernate once you buy the skill), they have no way to "turn it off" if they want to later, meaning that they are stuck with less AP permanently if they play the game as most people do by logging on once a day at the same time (previously, they'd start with 47 each day, now they start with 45 each day). And it's even worse for the casual players that don't log on once a day (previously they'd start with 49, now they start with 45). Without the ability to revoke the option somehow, a complicated and very situational mechanic like this is not a good idea. —Aichon— 04:56, 14 October 2010 (BST)

I just considered a time-based mechanic like this where you have to log back in and check on your character in a specific timeframe otherwise you would be in a disadvantageous situation would work for a browser game like UD; with this skill, you have to stand up between eight to twenty hours to get the additional AP or else you end up with less AP. Apparently it's something the players appreciate and frequently come back for, getting rewards with associated risk. And it's something exploited in other browser games too like Farmville (you have to farm your crop by this hour or it dies, etc). --Aeon17x 08:24, 14 October 2010 (BST)

Facebook is a different beast entirely, since people log on there for other reasons and then play Farmville while they're there (or else they go into Farmville knowing full well what to expect in terms of things like this). UD, however, does not revolve around mechanics like this, so adding one now that cannot be revoked later is a bad idea. I don't think players would appreciate the choice being forced on them permanently once they purchase the skill, since most of them wouldn't understand what they were getting into (for instance, my initial thought when reading the first parts of the suggestion was that it would somehow be optional with each death to deal with exactly what I'm talking about, but, obviously, that's not exactly feasible either). —Aichon— 20:27, 14 October 2010 (BST)

Didn't we have Facebook Dead a couple of years ago? :-) But yeah, I guess this does have a big downside to it that the skill description alone is not enough for the players to realize its full ramifications. Maybe it should have a warning before purchase like Brain Rot... though that might make the zombie skill tree more intimidating to navigate if there are warnings all over the place. --Aeon17x 01:25, 15 October 2010 (BST)

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Suggestions up for voting

Manhandle 2.0

Moved to Suggestion talk:20101019 Manhandle --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 20:22, 19 October 2010 (BST)

Lower HP by 20

Moved to Suggestion_talk:20101015_Lower_HP_by_20 -- Spiderzed▋ 13:02, 15 October 2010 (BST)

Spreading Infection

Moved to Suggestion talk:20101011 Spreading Infection --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 18:07, 11 October 2010 (BST)