Coalition for Fair Tactics/Assembly/DEM

	Coalition for Fair Tactics Assembly Discussion
	This page is for discussion by a Coalition for Fair Tactics Assembly of Representatives only. Any edits by other users will be reverted without notice, and may result in vandalism reports. Users wishing to discuss the current Assembly may do so on the talk page.

Fellow Assembly members: the way I see it, DEMON provides an unfair advantage for several reasons:

1. It allows information from non-DEM characters to be compiled with the information from DEM members.
2. It provides an enormously unfair advantage, because, face it: what group is going to manually update information on the barricades, player counts, graffiti messages, etc., for every square they visit? And log every PKing event? And every generator status? Etc.
3. The information that is gathered is not available to everyone; only to DEM members.
4. From all of this, the DEM has an unnatural advantage over non-DEM players, because any given DEM player has access to far more information about the game than he or she would be able to obtain on his or her own.

–Bob Hammero ^{Mod•B'crat•T•A} 21:34, 2 August 2006 (BST)

Perhaps I'm missing something, but this doesn't seem that huge a deal. I do see an obvious problem with the first point, but they've offered to fix that. However, I don't see the second point as a problem. Why is efficiency being punished? Is this wiki a bad idea because no one would manually update suburb danger if it was a text file? Obviously It's uncomfortable to see the information being gathered with so little effort, but are they doing anything wrong? On the third and fourth point, of course they have access to more information: that's why they're in a group. We can't draw a line and say "this information is too much, but that amount is okay." Just because you are doing something automatically that would normally have to be done by hand doesn't mean it's wrong. Like I said, maybe I'm missing something, and I seem to be the distinct minority here (and everyone else is probably much more experienced both in-game and on the wiki), and I would have no problem if this assembly decides it's unfair, but I don't think efficient gathering of information by a group should be punished (or at least not outright considered "cheating"). Ybbor^T 03:47, 3 August 2006 (BST)

It's important to hear different points of view. The point is that we have a diverse set of views on the Assembly so that we can represent as wide a portion of the player base as possible. I understand what you're saying, but I disagree somewhat. To me, yes, you could accomplish the same thing manually, but would any group take the time to do that? –Bob Hammero ^{Mod•B'crat•T•A} 21:50, 3 August 2006 (BST)

I should add a point to your initial statement Bob: DEMON can be (and probably is being) used as the axis of cheating systems. Let me explain myself:

The current hit limit for one character is around 300 (I read that somewhere) or 160 if you didn't pay, so every bot can check barricade levels approximately every 5 min, or just on a straigh run of clicks lasting a bunch of seconds (depends of connection speed). But if this same bot instead of checking the server (adding a click to the database) checks the DEMON database, it can safely work 24 hours a day checking the barricade levels as much as the DEMON system allows it, the only limit being that this bot has the DEM seal of approval, or somehow got the DEMON password. When the bot finds a report himself that the barricades are at some low level, it starts barricading, and if the barricade are back to safe levels it just updates the DEMON database so no database clicks are wasted.

I tought of this system in few minutes, who the hell knows what a guy with enough time and programming knowledge could do? My oppinion as I made it clear before on the Talk page is that this program has to go. DEMON, with the kind of info accuaracines (it's the word right?) that it can attain, is already (and potentialy) too harmful to be kept. Kevan should be informed and requested to make some kind of safelock so this kind of program can't be made again, and the only working mass info tool to be our old and (un)trusty metagaming. THAT wuold be my vote. --Matthew Fahrenheit ^{YRC | T | W!} 06:28, 6 August 2006 (BST)

I am going to be busy with some other things, and will not have the time to engage in this discussion as fully as I would like, so Xoid will be taking my place as the representative from ASS. –Bob Hammero ^{Mod•B'crat•T•A} 19:15, 6 August 2006 (BST)

Section II

As I have said in section 12 on the talk page, it't too late to supress something like this. While this tool is unfair, and as Matt has observed, is an extremely useful tool for bot programmers should they ever gain access to it, you can't unring a bell. So what to do? Even the Assembly wanted to, sanctions will prove futile. This is a problem with no easy answers, especially if the other side is not willing to concede on even the most minor of points. –Xoid ^S•T•FU! 14:54, 8 August 2006 (BST)

Well, I'm not sure where to post, so ill go here. I haven’t been on in about a week, and I just got info on this DEMON thing. It does seem unfair to anyone who does not have access, but it’s to late to stop something like this. DEMON is already in use, and if we tried to put restraints on it, people would just find ways around them.-Snakeeyes0072 06:31, 12 August 2006 (BST)

Would be easier if they responded, instead of Kiki-NOT-A-BLOODY-DIPLOMAT-LottaBoobs, but I still think my response in section 13 (linked below) is about right. The first request (verify UIDs are of DEM members) they've all but agreed to, the second we can just ask nicely and hope for the best. –Xoid ^S•T•FU! 07:36, 12 August 2006 (BST)

Alright. We have an overwhelming majority agreeing. It may be a moot point, as the DEM has already agreed to it. Dismiss the assembly, IMO. –Xoid ^S•T•FU! 08:53, 29 August 2006 (BST)

Sign off for Section 13

Section 13.

In Favour

1. Matthew Fahrenheit ^{YRC | T | W!} 08:14, 12 August 2006 (BST)
2. Xoid 08:23, 12 August 2006 (BST)
3. Conndraka^{mod TCFT} 08:57, 12 August 2006 (BST)
4. Jonny12 ^W! 12:32, 14 August 2006 (BST)
5. Ybbor^T 14:02, 14 August 2006 (BST)
6. Thari ^T/C/TJ! 17:24, 14 August 2006(BST)
7. Arcos ^T•C•S 19:01, 14 August 2006 (BST)
8. The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 00:56, 15 August 2006 (BST)