Suggestion talk:20100507 Change to Barricade Attacks Numbers When Inside

Change to Barricade Attacks Numbers When Inside

Timestamp: Maverick Talk - OBR 404 06:26, 29 April 2010 (BST)

Type: Mechanics change

Scope: Seiges & zombies looking for bra!ns

Description: Barricades are a zombies worst enemy, but why should it be just as hard when the zombie is INSIDE the building? One would think that would make it far easier to remove the things blocking the way in so those pesky harmans can't just throw up barricades behind you and separate you from all your hungry friends. Simply put, I am suggesting a change to the attack percentages for zombies attacking barricades from INSIDE a building. This is meant to go along with Survivor:Zombie Interference Negation. When inside a building the base chance for a zombie to destroy a level of barricade is 70%. This would be 80% with Vigor Mortis or 95% with Death Grip. Hence, MUCH easier to destroy cades from the inside, although still that small 5% chance of failure.

Discussion

Doesn't being inside already give everyone a small boost? Even if not, your numbers are insane. ~25 to 95?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 07:18, 29 April 2010 (BST)

Yes, apparently it does already give a small boost... but that boost is insanely underpowered (so much so that you cant tell the difference). It really could do with an increase -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 09:26 29 April 2010 (BST)

The problem with this is that it only makes sense if survivors get a similar boost and that would make it too easy to overcade during an attack and then take em back down to allow entry. Also, as Yonnua says, those numbers are insanely high. --Honestmistake 08:47, 29 April 2010 (BST)

+1 --Girobu 08:51, 29 April 2010 (BST)

I don't see why it makes sense to offer the same to survivors. Survivors shouldn't be taking down barricades. Zombies should be. If you want to make the realism argument, I'll counter with the "let's go with what's best for the game and what's fun" argument. For a zombie on the inside, they can attack barricades at points where they're not fortified against attack, enabling them to take them down faster. As boxy said, it needs a buff. Badly. 95% is a bit high, I think, but bumping it up closer to 50-75% seems reasonable to me. —Aichon— 09:47, 29 April 2010 (BST)

The numbers are insanely high for a reason. As I said, this suggestion is meant as a compliment to the one below. Besides, are you telling me that it shouldn't be significantly easier to remove barricades from the inside? As a stand-alone, all I really see this suggestion doing is offering up a new tactics for trans-mortal zombies and dealth cultists in siege situations because right now zeds have nothing to gain by attacking 'cades from the inside of a building. This would provide a new incentive (incredibly AP efficient) and possibly even suggest some new tactics for both survivors and zombies. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 09:41, 29 April 2010 (BST)

No linking suggestions.--Pesatyel 04:43, 30 April 2010 (BST)

There is a guideline about not making compound or multi-part suggestions, but nothing about paired suggestions. Besides, analyze each for what they're worth. They do work best together, but each stands on its own just fine. —Aichon— 06:28, 30 April 2010 (BST)

Do not reference other suggestions not already implemented in the game. :( --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 08:28, 30 April 2010 (BST)

I stand corrected (thanks, incidentally; I don't like continuing in my ignorance whenever possible). Still, I think they stand alone just fine, as I said. —Aichon— 08:48, 30 April 2010 (BST)

The problem is that the below suggestion does the exact opposite of what Kevan has been trying to do. And it's retarded. --VVV ^RPMBG 05:41, 30 April 2010 (BST)

You're wrong on both counts, and your casual dismissal of an elegant solution does not speak well of you. Barricades are used to balance out the AP spent by zombies, otherwise survivors would be overrun. If zombies are inside buildings though, that's a different matter entirely, and the barricades are now serving a different purpose. Forcing the survivors to split their attention more between putting up new barricades and killing zombies on the inside is good, since it creates more interesting gameplay. Ross' suggestion covers that entire idea in an elegant and simple manner. DIsmissing it offhand with such a rude comment is, well, rude. I know this page has a lot of vitriol on it, but I have a lot more respect for someone who puts up a strongly worded counter-argument than I do for someone who offers a meritless dismissal of a good idea any day. —Aichon— 06:28, 30 April 2010 (BST)

I'm sorry, is this the five minute argument or the full half hour? --VVV ^RPMBG 07:57, 30 April 2010 (BST)

Almost everything with me is the half hour version vs. the five minute version, since I'm always long-winded, but three lines does not a half hour of reading make, and there's no argument here. Merely a pointing out of your incorrectness. :) —Aichon— 08:02, 30 April 2010 (BST)

Regardless of the other suggestion below, I'd say make this a standalone change. Decading from inside should be easier than outside. Here's a crazy alternative. Attacks inside building on barricades are not subject to the 50% decrease in accuracy normally associated with barricade attacks. for everyone. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 09:56, 29 April 2010 (BST)

I like the simpleness of Ross' suggestion. If you want to go with anything, go with this one. --Spiderzed 14:40, 29 April 2010 (BST)

+1 14:49, 29 April 2010 (BST)

Simplistic, not bad.--Pesatyel 04:43, 30 April 2010 (BST)

Not simplistic. Simple. There's a big difference. And yes, it's not a bad idea at all. I'd get behind it. —Aichon— 06:29, 30 April 2010 (BST)

+4 - Send it through. It will pass. --VVV ^RPMBG 05:41, 30 April 2010 (BST)

What about Piñatas?--Pesatyel 04:43, 30 April 2010 (BST)

It would aply to buildings regardless of ruin status. Not like any zombie smart enough to make a piñata would be dumb enough to open it. --VVV ^RPMBG 05:41, 30 April 2010 (BST)

Sometimes zombies parachute into heavily barricaded buildings, killing survivors before ruining them. Any survivors that were killed inside can stand up as zombies inside (because zombies can't dump bodies) and decade -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 09:39 30 April 2010 (BST)

I don't like this at all. The biggest reason being that it would make parachuting ridiculously overpowered, as it would be used to instantly remove any barricades. But I can think of a few other problems too.
Right now, when a zombie gets into a building they can do plenty of damage by eating brains and smashing generators. Currently, if a lone zed feels like being altruistic and de-barricading, then they are making a tactical decision to spend their AP helping others, rather than taking the immediate personal payoff of eating brains. So, in a way, this suggestion would be removing a tactical consideration from the game. Trade-offs are good for the game, because they offer the opportunity to make meaningful decisions, right?
With this suggestion, there's no trade off. So if I'm a zombie in a building and the survivors decide to erect barricades around me, I just bring the barricades down and then start eating brains. Also, this would basically mean that 1 or 2 standing zombies in a building would signal the end game of a siege, rather than a manageable set back, which would in turn make sieges less possible and therefore discourage prolonged conflicts between zombies and survivors and in turn move the game farther away from zombies vs survivors.
However, zombies getting barricaded into buildings is really only an occasional situation. Most of the time, when a zombie breaks in, there are no cades up and they just AP out eating brains. What this really is, is a massive buff to parachuting. The really big problem here is that this would provide a way for 2 coordinating players (or 1 zerger) to instantly remove barricades, the single most important defense that survivors have. I'd never vote for something that could have the potential to so badly cripple the game, and I can't imagine too many other survivors voting for it either.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 08:32, 30 April 2010 (BST)

Thats why I prefer mine. Simpler, and more balanced. We might even get some people decading entry points from EHB. Scary! --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:21, 30 April 2010 (BST)

Entry points? *Scoffs* Entry points are a myth. -Devorac 16:51, 30 April 2010 (BST)

In fairness I know of only one guaranteed entry point in the whole of Malton. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:39, 30 April 2010 (BST)

Wild guess: A certain hospital in Kempsterbank, where rotters enjoy safety in numbers and where fungus has grown strong? --Spiderzed 18:48, 30 April 2010 (BST)

When it comes to helping level one survivors, we do everything we can. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:51, 30 April 2010 (BST)

Like speeding them on their way to the joys of being a level 1 zombie :) --Honestmistake 23:12, 30 April 2010 (BST)