Talk:Suggestions/3rd-Feb-2007

Pheremone Attack

Timestamp:	Funt Solo 12:57, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Type:	Zombie Skill.
Scope:	Level 10+ Zombies.
Description:	High level (level 10+) zombies, under a new skill tree, called "Pack Mentality", can choose this new skill called Pheremone Attack. Roleplay: high level mutation allows zombie to release a pheremone marker that instructs a horde when to initiate a concerted attack. Gameplay: allows a method to remove a timed attack from the meta-game and take it in-game. Also helps new zombie players, by giving them an indication of when to attack for the most effect. Rules: A zombie with this skill gets a "Release Attack Signal Pheremone" interface that includes a time delay (in hours and minutes) of up to 3 hours. Anyone logging in whilst the pheremone is in effect will get a message in the reports like Attack pheremone released for 04:40 GMT Only a single attack pheremone can be active at any given time, and cannot be over-written. (So, once one is in place at a given location, anyone else with this skill can't use it there.) If the zombie who initiated the pheremone moves away from that square, the effect ends. Notes in response to discussion The range is the current square, otherwise this is overpowered / spam. The duration is already provided - anything from 1 minute to 3 hours. The message would also be signaled to any zombie who enters the same square where a pheremone is in operation.

Discussion

This is a response to recent barricade nerfing suggestions. I'm trying for something that helps zombies co-ordinate their efforts without nerfing 'cades. What say you? --Funt Solo 12:57, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Put it this way, Funt. It sucks if you're a zed who just broke into a mall and get a Headshot in 5 seconds, forcing you to tear down the cades again. So, yea. Something has to be done about those cades. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 13:23, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, a single zombie breaking into a well-manned mall should expect to be headshot in 5 seconds. 20 zombies doing the same thing is another matter altogether. We need something that can be used not just at malls (they're not the only building type in Malton, after all), but anywhere. I think the recent cade-nerfs have been from a perspective of mall-centric play. --Funt Solo 00:03, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I have a zombie on mall tour, we break into the Whippey daily with anywhere from 12-16 and we last maybe 15 min before were all headshot and dumped. Barricades need to be nerfed. And most survivors are mall campers, the only ones that aren't are new survivors getting XP to buy bargain hunting so they can camp the mall. ZombieCrack 03:21, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I like the idea but think it should only be detected in full by zeds with Scent skill. I know that leaves out Newbies but its just far too powerfull otherwise. Others get a less informative message without the time! For example "You scent growing excitement and restlesness in the air" for zeds or "The air about the gathering horde is fouler than usual" for humans who also have the scent skill (yes i know thats an unusual crossover but hey!) Both these lesser messages should only be available in the 1st hour!--Honestmistake 14:39, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Why is this needed? Just gesture at the barricades, do a feeding groan, or use death rattle. I'm not against this but the mechanics to do the same thing already exist. --Uncle Bill 15:34, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

No the mechanics do not exist. There is no way ingame to gather zombies together if there are no survivors present. See this as a dumbed down version of a radio for zombies. The thing that sucks most about being a zed, is that without metagaming there is little interaction. Only a shit game has to rely on metagaming, which itself is supposed to be supplemental, not essential. I like honest's addition but think that all zombies should be able to smell it, but the accuracy of the message they get is either skill or level dependant. Survivors should only get an almost useless message such as "You detect an odour of putrefaction from the northeast." Zeds can not use radios, survivors should not be able to accurately smell anything except their own shit. @Funt. Suggestion is worth more details- range, duration etc.--SporeSore 15:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Spore refers to a very good point, namely would this have range? I think it should but it should be very limited, perhaps 5x5 with more info available the closer to source? Not as powerfull as radios but better than pointing and mumbling! Oh and to those who might argue that we could metagame... why should we? I don't and pretty much prefere it that way. This would make things very much more interesting for me and more fun for zeds in general!--Honestmistake 18:39, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe the range could be, say 3 or 4, but if you have the Scent skills, it increases to 6.--Pesatyel 19:16, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

The trouble is, if you give this a range, then there's an issue with crossover messages, confusion and spam. It's a single square message, which promotes the idea of a zombie horde. If you're not with the horde, you're not fighting to the strength of zombies. Anyway, see the notes I've added above. Uncle Bill has, indeed, missed the point: pointing at cades has no effect other than you've just pointed at cades. This suggestion provides at least the possibility of a co-ordinated attack. Survivors should have no sense of what's going on - all they see is a bunch of zeds. --Funt Solo 23:59, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I see what you mean but i strongly feel that survivors should get a hint, even if only within 1 Hour of the pheremone blast and extremely obtuse. Also while the idea of it only working in the zeds square is good i do think a vague hint should drift at least into the 3x3 area if its to be of any use to smaller groups of zeds instead of just big hordes!--Honestmistake 00:55, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Its a very good idea. Something is needed to gather zombies together not only in one location, but in one concerted effort; temporal gathering vs geogrpahic gathering.

Not that I would mind such updates, but I'm just not patient enough to expect Kevan to impilment something like this. Here's how I'd do this currently. First, I'd change my zombies description to something like "This zombie smells as if he'll be ready to make a furious attack at 6:00 GMT". Then I'd use Death Rattle and say "RAZZAN AB, yah zambaz. Ah am ganna zmazh za barags. Grab mah zambah gab." Which translates to "Listen up, you zombies. I am gonna smash the barracades. Click on this speach." Clicking on the speach would take them to my profile... and voila. Thanks for the idea, I hadn't really thought of doing exactly that until now! X:00 exists specifically to pursue such "temporal gathering" tactics.

--Swiers ^X:00 02:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for the clarifications (but then that is exactly what the talk page is for...). What about the "range" being just the 9x9 map (with the "release" in the center)? It just seems to me that ONE square just wouldn't be all that useful, even at the 3 hour mark unless the zombies are already "in a horde" but then they probably wouldn't really need this, would they? It seems more suited to attracting ferals and such to FORM a horde.--Pesatyel 02:52, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

So, you might end up with something like this (assuming an overlay on each map square):

04:00 04:32 -----

05:56 ----- -----

----- ----- 06:05

What do others think? I guess, as a zombie player, you'd opt to join the biggest group.--Funt Solo 13:01, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure just what those times indicate, but I get the general gist, and like it. That indeed is an effect that can not be currently produced, and would likely be helpful. Having a potentail 9 different attack times / locations visable like that is very good.

However, it raises the question, what if more than one zombie in a location uses the "attack pheromone"? Do you get multiple time listings for that location? I suppose this would work if the message was a text message like feeding groan, but it would be to much info to fit in the map view, I think.

As to what my choice would be as a zombie player, I would probably pick the building that looked like the best target, or had the most convienient time. I'd likely not join a really small group (fewer than 3) but you don't need a HUGE group to get a good effect. --Swiers ^X:00 18:34, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

CNR, dude. One time per square at any given time. That's right. Just one per square. And it's a max. of 3 hours away. The time displayed represents kick-off. If it was 0300 and there was no attack time set already, my zed with this skill could set the attack time to 0600 (at the most). If he was killed or moved away or entered the building the attack time would disappear. That's the idea. --Funt Solo 20:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Gotcha, missed the bit in the original proposal about "1 per square, no over-write." Yeah, in that case, the visable "grid" of scents in adjacent squares is quite useful. It would still be a good skill if all you could "see" was the time in your own block, because you could move around looking for various times, and because you'd likely just seek out a large groups (which you can already see) and join in at the time indicated for that block. And yeah, this is a lot better than verbal communication, because its durable- almost like using spray paint to announce your attack time, only it can;t be erased! Me likey lots. --Swiers ^X:00 22:29, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I would prefer to only get a time on the central square! If no pheremones have been used in that square then it should default to getting a whiff of pheremones from the group with the largest number of zeds with the skill who are in range! That would reduce its power and associated spam considerably while retaining a good level of usefulness.--Honestmistake 14:10, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

This also would be a pretty good effect, but again, what if multiple valid pheromones are in the same range- which one do you pick up? I nature, animals can distinguish dozens of scents simultaniously, but that may be to much info for game balance / interface purposes. --Swiers ^X:00 18:34, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking that you would get the scent given in your square as a priority and if no scent was pesent then the nearest scent would register. If more than one scent is within range and an equal distance then the scent location containing the most zeds with the skill would be the only one to show! A tie could show a message denoting 'confused' scents!--Honestmistake 01:07, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

This is madness... zombies should not be able to plan attacks... it makes no sense in roleplaying terms. Shambling around, moaning, undead, that's what zombies are supposed to be. There are already sufficient (if not too many) skills that give zombies likelike abilities, IMO. --Cman yall 11:51, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, the thing is, zombies do plan attacks - in the meta-game. What's the difference between that, and them doing it in-game? To my mind, doing it in-game is better for the game - and better for new players. Remember, zombies are players - not NPCs, so (as players) they want tactical variance, or playing a zed is a turn-off. Also, if a pack of wolves can plan an attack through simple instinct and basic communication - why can't zombies? --Funt Solo 12:25, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

A lot of zombies, myself included, do not and have no desire to metagame. I am already tired of zombie game play, and I have only been playing a few months or so. --SporeSore 16:38, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Real zombies can just stand around outside a building and wait for more to show up, and then all attack en-masse. Human players who control zombies in urban dead can NOT do that with their zombies, because of artificial game limits and mere human patience / that thing called "a life". This wouldn't be a "life-like ability"- it would allow "normal" zombie behavior to characters controlled by humans. --Swiers ^X:00 17:58, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd agree...If zombies were active 24/7. They are not. Like ALL players, they have a play window roughly 10 minutes every 24 hours to play. The logistics of making a "group" attack (hell any group activity) are not easy, especially if you don't metagame, which one shouldn't HAVE to do. Also, comparing UD zombies to "other" zombies is kinda stupid. Sure, UD zombies follow the BASIC patterns of "zombie genre" but the inherent nature of the game requires that there be some divergence from that. Otherwise zombies would have to be bots/NPCs to conform. What fun would THAT be?--Pesatyel 04:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Funt- are you actually gonna write this up as a suggestion? Because I think it would be a good one to get in the que for actual voting. Its a great idea that would make the game a lot more fun for zombie players. If you don't want to write it up, would it bother you if I (or somebody else) did so, linking attribution back to you / this discussion? --S.Wiers ^X:00 18:32, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Aye, whatever. --Funt Solo 23:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

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Make Malton Smaller

Timestamp:	Bluetigers 05:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Type:	balance change, improvement
Scope:	Everybody, feral zombies
Description:	As the number of active characters slowly declines, the effectiveness of the feral zombie declines along it. Feral zombies are area critters, their effectiveness depends on the feral density. Lower numbers of players -> lower density of ferals -> no one to hear groans, no one to benefit from barricades lowered, no one to finish a kill. To improve feral effectiveness, feral density must be increased. As there is no known way to increase the number of players besides zerging, it follows that Malton itself must become smaller. A back-of-the envelope computation indicates that about 20-25% of the suburbs must disappear in the process, to bring back zombie density to the levels of last year, when half of the map was red and the survivor presence in Malton was under question.

Discussion

I'm not too sure about this one. Sure, the number of active players has declined, but no one here is saying that it will not subside. Heck, UD may in one year's time have 50,000 extra players. So who knows what the future hold. I disagree with this idea, and hope that it will never be implemented. Because, if it did, it would mark the eventual death of UD. --_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 06:03, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Effectiveness --Funt Solo 11:37, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

You know i just thought of a way this might be made to work. Have the army drop leaflets everywhere to say they are going to push back the security cordon on a given date allowing anyone there to be "rescued" This would give older characters a good way to retire (especially if they were given a small bonus of 10xp per current level to start a new character!) without simply stopping play. A flavour text on the new border describing killing zones and gun towers would make it a worthwhile tourist attraction too! Also done this way there is nothing to stop Kevan having the wall breached and zeds swarm back in if player numbers grow again. One last point; I would not think anything like the suggested number of burbs need go, perhaps about 5 or 6 from the edge!--Honestmistake 14:49, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I seriously do not believe this would be accepted well. While some players prefer to be in active locals, other like hanging around the rim. Also, you never know when there might be an onrush of players or so. SuperMario24 18:36, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

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