Talk:Survivor Security Zone

Non-Enforcement

I think this project has honestly run its course, its heyday being from 2007 through 2009 or so. Searching the wiki, I was pleasantly surprised to see the SSZ mentioned even through 2011. Overall, looking back to those years it was an interesting experience and a great way for survivors to band together behind a common cause. Continuing to advocate its continuation, however, is...basically dumb at this point. I think the SSZ's main problem, as indicated by many people over the years, was its sheer size. Holding a territory of that size is not impossible, but we were simply not organized enough at the time to efficiently secure it all. If the project were to ever be revived (no pun intended) then it would have to be from an inside -> out rise in survivor strength in the area. Personally I'm not eager to see the Zone rise again, but will continue to help defend the suburbs and culture of Stanbury Village, Roftwood, Pimbank, Edgecombe, and Tollyton side-by-side with dedicated groups of survivors.

To all members of the Zone Defenders - my final orders (for now?) are to join a group whose name will be revealed in the near future. A new (smaller!) project is on the horizon... - Benigno ^{SSZ RCC} 23:20, 9 September 2012 (BST)

Current Events

I think the SSZ has put up a great fight against the zed hordes, every time a mall is taken it seems like it is soon taken back, keep up the good work! -ILoveAmp

May i make a few suggestions? I like the concept of SSZ, but as it is currently i have little hope for its success. Plans are too ambitious for one; people will not be expected to join unless a certain amount of success has been achieved.

Why not scale down your plans a little? I propose cutting the 10-block area around Tynte Mall out since its (arguably) the hardest to defend properly, plus its in a different district which makes comms harder. Also, the core Zone should include more NT buildings than just the Greenhow Building. Once the NT building falls, the whole Core area is dead. The Core area should arguably consist of more Hospitals/NTs than PDs since fire axes can be used to down zeds, but heals and revs are harder to come by. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yeeth (talk • contribs) on 20 February 2008.

One of the SSZ members

Hello, it was hell of a blast to participate in the SSZ cause, it's sad for me but LCD is dead. I would really appreaciate if you guys could vote for us on the historical voting page.

May the SSZ always shines as a survivor heaven,

(Cortonna) DarthRevan 16:04, 9 June 2008 (BST)

Survivor Extinction Zone July 07

Was the project abandoned?

I'm saying this partly facetiously but it seems like every place in the zone is either under attack or has been wiped out. This is not the work of a super, Big Bash type of horde or the Mall Tour '07 (which was also successful), just LUE, the RRF and various regional zombie groups.

So on the one hand, I'm mocking the whole endeavor, but seriously I have to ask if the SSZ is still a valid idea at all. Coordinating 2000+ people is a pipe dream, anyway, but when a relatively small number of zombies can ransack three of the four malls in the area in a week without much resistance put up at all. One of them was Tynte, but still.

Even if you were able to somehow concentrate 2000 people in the area, I don't see how you could rebuild and revive faster than a good group of zombies could ransack and kill. You would need a huge numerical advantage to even be able to keep running away at the right times, and I just don't see that happening.

Anyway, this is only marginally a current event, but the Mall Tour '07 is already a historical group and the "Survivor Extinction Zone" is what this place seems to have turned into for the time being.-Insomniac By Choice 18:35, 6 July 2007 (BST)

The Zone will continue to exist, despite recent events. LUE is a horde the likes of which we were not prepared for - a very large, EXTREMELY organized group, more organized than even the RRF. Working together, given our current conditions, we didn't stand too much of a chance.

However, the Zone is still being built. New people join the Zone Defenders and the Zone Alliance all the time, and we're still in the process of bringing in several different groups from around malton into the area. If it wasn't for LUE, the RRF NEVER would have been able to pull off such an assault so quickly. Even with all their resources, they could never take out the entire zone - whereas, when they use all their forces PLUS a 300+ strong, highly co-ordinated group to help, nobody in Malton is safe; not just the SSZ. LUE, in my opinion, is quite a bit deadlier than Mall Tour '07 ever was. We held them at Hildebrand - when they were 500+ strong - for more than a week.

I will say we have learned much from this direct sacking of the Zone. This is the first time that the Zone has been directly targeted, and our future plans and strategies will take into account the movement and behavior of both zeds and survivors during this war.

The zone exists, and will continue to do so. Sorry to rain on your parade. --Benigno ^{SSZ RCC} 19:14, 6 July 2007 (BST)

I must add my agreement to this, citing Shacknews as a predecessor for LUE; they were just as coordinated and caused just as much rampaging damage. Daniel Hicken 03:34, 7 July 2007 (BST)

It remains to be seen if LUE is another Shacknews (or if they'll compare new hordes to LUE in later days), but as for the "zone" existing and continuing to exist, I fart in your general direction. I don't think anyone is directly targeting the zone, it's just a high concentration of brains within short walking distance. Any horde that wants to do the most damage is going to come to this place because they can each mall is within one day's walking distance. But I'm not really here for an argument; I thought this was abuse.-Insomniac By Choice 04:11, 7 July 2007 (BST)

It's always been mostly dead anyway, they chose a bad place to make it when there is another option available with many of the same benefits and even 4 malls whose surrounding areas connect, and isn't based in the zombie homeland. Mabey it's time for a move.--karek 05:23, 7 July 2007 (BST)

Want to tell us this place then? --_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 09:00, 7 July 2007 (BST)

I'll give you clues for the sake of fun. Clue 1, it's on your map, Clue 2, Morrish is in it.--karek 09:46, 7 July 2007 (BST)

It doesn't matter. We're not going anywhere. --Benigno ^{SSZ RCC} 21:00, 7 July 2007 (BST)

I believe you'll need to be going to a revivication center, eh?--Insomniac By Choice 07:51, 9 July 2007 (BST)

hmmmnnnnn... i believe karek was talking about the cluster of malls etc. stretching North West of Penny Heights. It'd include Lumber Mall and Joachim Mall and whatever the other malls NW of those are. problem is most of the burbs in the area kinda suck for NT buildings...

SSZ is attempting to think outside the box of those suburb maps, and i think that's great. i'm a total newb but even i can see that a lot of the best pro-survivor areas are TRP zones contained within the boundaries of 2 or more burbs... some of them are smaller than 10x10, some are a bit larger. actually, sometimes these zones are lot smaller than a whole burb, or there there might be 2 or 3 of these smaller zones scatter around a few suburbs, and the trick is to be flexible and mobile and move between all of them.

i think survivor defense REALLY has to lose its 'burb-oriented bias...

but this project is just too big and for it to work as envisioned, it'd probably require too much heirarchy and too much bullying by the leaders of a few big groups. i'm all for better and tighter survivor organisation, but i envision it on a more "think globally, act locally" basis... dunno how that'd work, but i makes more sense to me... --WanYao 15:35, 25 July 2007 (BST)

Actually, "think globally, act locally" is pretty much the method we've been employing thus far. Thanks for the input. --Benigno ^{SSZ RCC} 17:14, 25 July 2007 (BST)

Actually from the zombie point of view the method you've taken so far is think in a box and brag about your "skillz"--Karek^maps?! 22:37, 25 July 2007 (BST)

You know, not all of us are trenchies Karek. But I appreciate the grouping of the mentalities of all the members of 24 different allied groups into one short blurb. Really, I do. --Benigno ^{SSZ RCC} 05:36, 26 July 2007 (BST)

Actually I was referring to you, not the group/s.--Karek^maps?! 06:17, 26 July 2007 (BST)

Me? Come on, I don't have many "skillz" as you put it. I'm in contact with a lot of people, but when it comes down to it I'm just a level 41 survivor. I don't control the people I'm in contact with, and the ZDers group itself has a wide spectrum of dedication and active-ness. I'm not the one bragging about Blackmore - the only thing I brag about is the resilience of the survivors in this area; their willingness to fight for this territory, stick to the plan, and be faithful to the overall goals. So sorry if you feel that way about me. --Benigno ^{SSZ RCC} 11:19, 26 July 2007 (BST)

Mall Tour '07

Yeah, so Mall Tour's hit the SSZ, and one mall's down. There's still hope, though. Small as we are, the Malton Riot Squad is organizing at Nichols, and we're trying to get things organized. Given the way Mall Tour's been running over shopping centers, though, it won't be easy. But it can be done, as the battle for Stickling illustrated. Here's what we need:

1. Many mans: At times, there were 200 people inside versus 300-ish zombies outside of a single building at Stickling. If we're gonna stand up against Mall Tour... we're gonna need a lot of people. See also: meat shield.
2. Rapid rezes: The only way to keep the zeds from slowly draining however many people can get inside is to set up an efficient revivification point. One close enough to the nearest NT to keep things running smoothly, but far enough from the siege to keep confusion to a minimum. 1-2 blocks is usually enough of a buffer.
3. ABCs!: Always Be Cading! Keep the barricades up, maintain one or two entry points, and if the entry points fall, don't spend too much time trying to retake them. Yeah, that cuts out survivors without free running, but it can cut losses significantly.
4. Keep it together: Stay organized! Given what you guys in the SSZ have set up, that shouldn't be too hard. I noticed you've got pretty much all the radios on the same frequency. Keep good contact between the NT's, the malls, and other important resource buildings so everyone knows what's going on where. Having organized clans directing tactics helps too. I think part of what kept Stickling up so long was because so many of the people there were in one of the major clans and were working hard tactically.
5. Also: try to keep the malls powered and get radios in as much as possible. I don't even know how many times a day gennies were replaced at Stickling. But it was nausiating.
6. Stickling held for 5 weeks. So far, 1/4 malls in the SSZ have fallen. Doesn't mean there's no time to turn this fight around.

Let's show Mall Tour '07 that we're more than a convenient snack stop. ;) --HereticSoul 02:51, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Hildebrand Mall Currently under seige and what a good one it's turning out to be. LCD is attempting to coordinate defense efforts in the besieged SW corner and have been holding out for a week with the zombie horde growing daily. Currently 75 zeds in SW corner, 50 bodies on the ground. Not sure how much longer we can hold out but we are trying to reinforce it. Not sure of the status of the other malls, but we may need a fallback location in a few days. Please give a status report from other malls. Other notable groups involved include the Quarterly Study Group and the VSGCU as well as a few members of the C4NT and of course some good men and women of the zone defenders. Good times, bring some beer and shotgun shells and join the party in the SW corner. Pop by one of the NT buildings and say hi before you sleep in the SW corner so the good folks there can add your profile for a fast revive. You will probably need one or four. Kluver 09:29, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Update - continuing to hold while zombie numbers outside continue to drop. We have been reinforced by elements of the QSG and NMC. It is interesting to note how little communication has been made on behalf of the organizing members of the zone defence despite our efforts to work towards their aims. Kluver 07:49, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Mission accomplished. See http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Talk:Liberation_of_Crossman_Department#Survivor_Security_Zone_Matters for detatils.

Woodroffe Mall, SE corner is current zombie target. LCD would appreciate some backup. Cheers.

I've come down. Mall seems pretty underpopulated, about 80 survivors? --Deacon Avery

Confirm that, this mall won't last long if the population stays low, we need more hands pulling triggers and nailing barricades.--_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 03:16, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, despite the low numbers of survivors I think we've been holding out fairly well, there really hasn't been anything serious in the way of a break in. They are persistantly knocking down the cades, but only about about 5 get in at a time, they kill a couple of people, but I get the feeling that this could go on forever... These zombo's are persistant but totally disorganized. I agree we need more hands, but in addition to barricading, maybe those hands should be holding glasses of rum lightly tinted with eggnog. They havent even been able to turn off our christmas lights! Any word from Nichols Mall? I heard word over the horn that they were pretty desperate for reinforcements. I mean, we really don't expect to be holding all the Malls, but I think of the four, Nichols is the most prestigious -- and dangerous. Anyway, whoever that was who called for help, before I even think about leaving this party, I want to see some intel. Don't just call for help and ignore the wiki. You can't coordinate anything over the radio. I don't even know if Nichols is in human or zombie hands. So bloody well let us all know whats going on and fill in the Nichols mall section below. And now I'm ranting. It must be the nog. Kluver 05:47, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Um... ok, perhaps I shouldn't have said that. They killed many of us today. But we still have eggnog. We need reinfocements ASAP Kluver 23:37, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Erm... we are all screwed, only four survivors standing in the SE corner as of this signing. Thanks for the revive, whoever. Oh, and Duke- I tried to revive you mate, but you have to stand up!!--_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 05:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

one of zeds crashed me into head pretty strong and i was lying unconcious until early today... i guess i head a brain concussioin. well anyway, standing on powsell road and i have few syrings so ready to revive friends after being revived myself --Duke Garland 09:21, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Mall Reports:

Mall reports post on our forum Here --_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 04:23, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Survivor Security Zone Ideas

Smaller Contained Area?

fig. 1.0 - Alternate contained version

I certainly like the idea of a safe-survivor controlled area, much like Riddleybank for zombies before the Battle For Blackmore. However, I agree with Jon Pyre's comments that your aim is to hold too much territory. What would happen if one or two malls collapsed? The entire 'network' would crumble, revive points fill with rotters and the area soon become hazardous. How about only holding the four malls, but each mall be semi-autonomous? A group in each mall, with regular contact with each other in regards to 'cade status and more small groups holding the NT buildings. Other survivors and independent groups could hold the meaty centre of vanilla offices and resource building such as the hospitals and police depts. I think the key I'm trying to convey is that survivor groups work well when small. They become too unwieldy and cumbersome when large. The larger they are, the looser their organisation and direction is - just look at the Channel 4 news Team. As classy as they are, they don't have a great deal of direction, other than "kill stuff here" or "run over there for a revive". Your thoughts and comments?--_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 02:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Read the crazy long thing that guy wrote (Craer). Although it would mean a lot of working together, it can work. --TTHSK 08:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I already have read "the crazy long thing that guy wrote" - I am simply putting forward my critique of the plan. Can you answer my questions I put forward, or discuss my suggestions? --_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 11:03, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

This is actually what I was trying to describe, and what I imagine Jon Pyre was also describing, below the big paragraph. See fig. 1.0 to the right...--_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 11:17, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I pointed at the guy's thing because that's what I think could happen rather than the collapse idea you put forward, if we were organised. Plus, I like the idea of an organised behemoth - it would be a survivor force to contend with, just as the most organised hordes are. I don't really want to comment on the exact territory boundaries, I don't really care too much. (Although maybe at least three squares out in all directions from each mall, at least, as well as what you've included. Seems to cut a little close to the malls.) --TTHSK 23:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, it was only a rough sketch, survivors can barricade and defend what they want to - people in the end won't stick to a rigid barricade/occupying plan--_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 06:12, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

True, locals can help by doing whatever they do already. And yeh, directly coordinating something like this isn't possible; it has to work like an ant colony or a beehive I think....anyway. Trying to define a strict border is impractical, esp the large one.(though that is an ideal area; the PDs are one of the first things to go and the ones on the border form a good early warning net) Watching for hordes/breaches in the GENERAL area and alerting/rallying the Malls/groups seems like the key.--Raystanwick 13:40, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Core Buildings

Herbert NT is a core resource in holding of Hildebrand mall, and hildebrand mall seems to be the core of the zone right now. all those lists of Police Departments aren't that important while the mall is in survivors hands... If we are raising project step by step, we should start with defending malls rather than all PDs.--Duke Garland 11:33, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Duke -- Yes, the Malls are unquestionably the most important resources in the Zone. The Core resources buildings are defined as centrally located resource buildings to be used a fallback positions in the case of a Mall compromise. They are not terribly useful to a Mall while the Mall is in survivor hands. But it's nice to know they are there (and maintained) just in case. The Core is a "Plan B" for Mall defense. -- Foobarosa 14:59, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I think an adjacent Mall would be a better fallback.(and there are more Malls South and East of these four) The Malls and NTs are the only resource buildings experienced Survivors need.(factories and autos are nice, but hardly neccisary) The PDs and Hospitals should be VSB for newbs. Other, non-resource buildings can be EHB for a Distributed Defense. Plus, a list of buildings may be mistaken as a claim of ownership.--Raystanwick 13:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Phased Implementation

Stage 1?

Great, we have a general idea of what we all eventually want to do. But.... we need to clearly set out goals that we can achieve in turn to paint the bigger picture. So, starting with stage one, what should our goals be? As from the main article, We must crawl before we walk, and walk before run. Just to put it out there, I think one of our first priorities is to get the word out there (spray tags, randomly say stuff about the SSZ, remind people of it when you heal them and when you revive them, etc. People seem to hear better when you heal or revive them)--_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 13:42, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi

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• Survivor Security Zone/Propaganda

Thanks --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 16:03, 7 October 2009 (BST)

Misc Radio Chatter

Foobarosa, where are you? Nichols is falling and we currently have members milling around curious about what they should be doing.--Inquisitor Bob 09:41, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I think you're trying to hold too large a territory. Even Caiger at it's height couldn't hold more than the mall and latrobe against hordes. I'd shrink the zone to the point where's it's as small as possible and still includes all the malls and a fair number of NTs. You definitely don't want to be stretched too thin. And generators should only be placed in resource buildings, anywhere else is a waste of AP. --Jon Pyre 04:24, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Interesting thought. I will try to come up with a number of "phases" to the zone creation. While I think the Zone as described is sound, I also think we need to come up with a way to get from here to there. Perhaps the initial phases would restrict the zone activity to within the are bounded by the four Malls? -- Foobarosa 14:12, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Until we have more members the security zone idea is flawed. Suggest we focus on tagging around Hilderbrand (sp?) and jouyner road (without stepping on the toes of other groups), having a major recruitment drive as it were? --Inquisitor Bob 12:11, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Start with the malls, the area between, and only those buildings you actually need - NTs, Hospitals, PDs, and don't forget Auto Repair Shops for fuel. Right now the map shows the colors used in the main Malton map, which differentiates FDs (which aren't useful) but does not show Auto Repair Shops (which are, and which are needed whether or not you hold the malls). That said, and despite the difficulty of pulling this off, I'm in. Crisco Inferno 18:11, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Interesting idea, but you'd need a huge number of survivors, and, more importantly, you'd need those survivors to be very coordinated for this to work. And survivors don't like to be coordinated. The tactical view is sound, but the practical side...--Lachryma 04:41, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

In the middle of four malls? I'm so there! --genie in a bottle ^{♥ - Zone} 07:29, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Wow. Picking a fight with the RRF and the Apocalypse Horde. Good luck, I know the RRF is always looking for a good battle (we're in one right now). -- Murray Jay Suskind 7:46 pm EST, 14 November 2006

Sonds good, but Central Malton is the zombie heartland. Though if we do retake it, THAT would be a real shining victory.

What's the point of owning territory if there's no way to gain xp on it...? -.- -Certified=Insane^☭ 17:29, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Discussion of General Theory

You'd need a heck of a lot of people. If you could manage say 400 people per mall, then have the NT closest to each mall occupied by 100 that would probably do it. Basically, you'll need 2000 people for this effort. Not undoable. Just hard to organize. Even then you'd be unable to hold any one mall against a significant horde. BUT the malls would be far enough apart that any zombie group currently in game could only lay siege to one at a time. So the idea would have to be if a mall is falling, retreat to another mall. When the horde strikes moves to that mall go back to the now unoccupied one. The zombies would have endless meaningless victories, simulataneously destroying and losing one mall at a time. Maybe instead of the SSZ you should call this the "Mall Whack-A-Mole Zone".--Jon Pyre 04:31, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Or would it be the "Zombie Whack-A-Mall Zone"?--Lachryma 04:39, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I think you're right about the scale and difficulty of organization. Needing about 2000 people in the Zone sounds about right. It is a BIG project. I'm not so sure about the "whack-a-mall" tactics though. With that many survivors and resources concentrated in a small area, I think new strategies can be developed. You have to consider, also, that the zeds are already engaging in whack-a-mall. The Big Bash just roams Malton, ripping open mall after mall, leaving the remaining survivors to pick up the pieces. The Survivor Security Zone is, hopefully, a response to whack-a-mall. -- Foobarosa 13:53, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Three of the four malls are in the SE-2 sector, so I'd suggest monitoring 26.17 MHz, the DEM frequency (see Radio_map) for Stanbury Village, Roftwood, Edgecombe, Shackleville, and Tollyton. The MFD in southwest Stanbury Village will provide daily reconnaissance reports on that frequency. Basically, I climb up a tall building, use my binoculars, and report how many zombies I see in each direction. An example would be "View from XX,YY - NW:2z, W:1z, SW:3z, S:2z." --Uncle Bill 04:53, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Interesting... If all survivors groups (or a vast majority) gravitated towards those, it would greatly tilt the balance of power to the survivors. Doesn't really interest me though... This is more of a playground for big groups. -Certified=Insane^☭ 22:04, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Because I found this link someplace, I am an ass, I like to hear myself talk, and I have an inherently extremely over analytical nature, I thought I would put in my two cents, despite the fact that nobody ever pays attention to them.

First of all: This is a brilliant idea. With four mall so close together, it would take a truly epic number of zombies to bring them all down at once. If one mall falls, everyone can fall back to the other three. If the zombies try to come down to take the next mall, the survivors can circle back and take back the first mall, since the zombies naturally have to LEAVE before they can actually try to take a second mall. Getting the New Malton Colossus in on this, since the fall of Caiger and Blackmore, would be extraordinarily helpful to this idea, if it was pitched well, and pitched soon. After Caiger fell, I noticed that the survivors who were there didn't seem to know what to be doing. My zombie in the area even noticed that the revive points were clogged with zombies waiting for the mall to be retaken. With this idea, the Survivor Security Zone can NEVER be effectively defeated. To take down a PD is to bolster the malls as survivors fall back and warn of the impending attacks. To take down one mall is to bolster the other three as survivors fall back, once more with knowledge of tactics, flaws in their own plans, and otherwise armed with the information needed to better defend the remaining strongholds. To turn attention to the next mall would be to give up the hold on the first. The only way to truly hold the taken mall from survivors while advancing on another would involve either a compilation of zombie groups unlike Malton has ever seen, or alt abuse. It would require that all the defenders of each mall work together, and stop recognizing the lines between the malls and suburbs in the area, and see the place as a single unit. That would be a challenge. If a mall is taken, and the survivors do fall back, it is extremely likely that the survivors who fell back would be rallying to charge and take back their mall, while those in the standing malls will stubbornly decide to defend this one, and deem the pressure on the fallen building unimportant to their own defense. (Until, that is, their mall falls, and they have to find someplace else to stay).

This is one issue: The loyalist attitudes that keep people defending their own suburb, or their own mall, upholding the standards and viewpoints that Kevan himself put up when he designed the game. When I am a survivor standing in Roachtown, I feel ten times safer than I do when I step one block south and see that my suburb location has changed to Ridleybank. (Not to mention that it's probably a justified feeling of safety to step back up one north out of there) While this would be a challenge to be overcome with the test of time, and fostering feelings of security between the malls, not to mention proof of solidarity in the form of handling long-term attacks on the area, once the issue is overcome, the zahmbahz will not know exactly how to handle the lack of the 'crushing defeat' that sinking a mall normally creates, or the loss of the blow to morale the appellation "Barhah" to any given suburb or building stimulates. Naturally, the issue of numbers comes up time and again. With the loss of Caiger and Blackmore, that's hundreds of survivors swaying someplace with the loss of life, along with perhaps a loss of purpose and faith. If you were to get people out there to start talking up this idea around these fallen legends, you could easily recruit the hundreds who defended Caiger to the last, and the Blackmore Bastard Brigade which held up against three times their number not too far from the proposed location. The reasons these groups failed is because they sought to elevate something that was cemented into the ground. No one building can be invincible. No mall can't be breached, no NT can't fall, no PD can hold forever. But to instead defend an area? A group of malls? To base a group on a single building is to invite trouble. Group headquarters are bigass "Eat at Joe's" signs for zombies, not to mention the "Everyone in our group is currently at, or frequents this spot" stickers all over there for PKers.

To instead work around a larger area, including multiple malls, PDs, NTs, RPs, Hospitals, and other such places, ensures that the zombies can never completely obliterate you. If they take a mall? Move to the others, regroup. Wait for them to move, and take it back. They take two malls, and somehow have the numbers to hold both? Fall back to the other two, regroup, pick a mall and launch twice the counter-assault you threw when the first one fell. They, through sheer massive numbers, take all the malls and hold them? Fall back to the PDs, organize, and assault one with four mall's worth of survivors, coming from all angles, spread across all these suburbs, not concentrated in any one PD to hit. The zombies take one PD? There are a ton more. They take two? Three? Five? Ten? At some point in time, any conglomerate of zombie groups would be spread far too thin to be able to hold all of these buildings. Survivors take back PDs. Survivors take back a mall. Survivors flock to the mall, restock, rebarricade... That fourth siege of four malls worth of survivors starts all over again. Ferals get bored and leave. Zombies parked in the other three malls get bored and join the siege. Survivors take back the other malls. Siege crumbles as they start to backtrack, in-fight about who was supposed to be standing where to prevent retaking the malls, and eventually, disperse, or drastically decrease in effectiveness over time.

The greatest strength of this idea is itself its biggest weakness: It's not just one spot to hold. It's not just one symbol of survivor resistance. It's a huge area that can't fall from one single zombie ransacking one single square. It would require either great organization and dedication from great numbers, or loose organization and at least the piqued interest of massive numbers. With such numbers, strength, and organization, along with the heart of the idea itself, this place could become the next Caiger. Not in the whole "Ransacked and left to the dead" way, but in the "Beacon of Resistance" way. Not to mention that if this gets off the ground (perhaps with the help of the BBB, the Caigerites, and the NMC?) it will attract great attention and even more survivors to the cause.

But then, they tell me I talk too much sometimes. I seriously don't think anybody listens to what I say anymore. --Craer 18:00, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

If I wasn't already a member of the Zone Defenders that little essay would have convinced me! Can we count you with us with regards to this little endevour?--Inquisitor Bob 10:03, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I'll have to pass, I'm afraid I've got three alts, and only one is unaffiliated pro-survivor. I try not to make them too stationary due to the mobile nature of an unaffiliated feral undead, and a reviver for a non-stationary group. I'll swing by and help when I can, and I will certainly help argue for this place to be created, but other than that, I can't make any stationary engagements with three mobile characters wandering around randomly. Hell, just last week I found two of them to be within five blocks of each other diagonally without my even noticing. They were in different suburbs, but just around the corner from one another. I'll try to swing in for a bit of help when both of my other alts are out of the area, though. --Craer 00:34, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the zone should be shrunk. There's no need to include fifteen PDs far out from the malls since we'd know everyone would stick close to the malls regardless. Hell, you could shrink it enough so Ridleybank wouldn't even need to be in the zone. Just the malls, everything in the area between the malls, and maybe one or two additional NTs should be enough. --Jon Pyre 16:29, 24 November 2006 (

I think you might want to factor in the newly renovated forts in the development of a plan such as this. For example moving the zone more to the SE, still having multiple mall coverage plus one or two forts. Whatever way you slice it, I love the idea and our group [[1]]is seriously considering getting involved in furthering the cause. Great idea, and timely in the post Caiger world of UD. Kluver 02:27, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunatly the forts are currently out of commission. After the headsup about their development they were flooded with resistance, and currently are the homes of 200+ zombies each. Not good. On a plus note we're glad to have you affiliated with us!--Inquisitor Bob 15:44, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I apologize for intruding on this, but I'm a member of FedCom and have been fighting in Fort Perryn for awhile. There are probably only 75-90 aggressive zeds(counting bodies) currently attacking. However, Perryn is a ways away anyways. EnglishMuffin 03:41, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Adding our support

We are officially adding our support to the defence of the zone. Our group is newly based in Roftwood which is currently under attack. We will be recruiting to build our numbers to effectively defend the eastern quadrent of the zone but we will work with you and welcome communication between our group and the Zone Defenders. We are well organized and have relatively good communication and just plain like to have fun so lets stick it to the dead man. And if anyone has some spare AP and is not otherwise engaged, Hildebrand is under assault and could use some reinforcement in the SW corner. Kluver 19:32, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

We will make sure to spread the message of SSZ around.

LCD 2nd in command Juan Rico 16:11, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

After much ado, the DEM is officially announcing our support for the SSZ. We've been unofficially helping out in Stanbury Village, Roftwood, and Tollyton (they fall under our SE-2 District). Let me know if you need anything. --Uncle Bill 22:00, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

That's excellent news, I've been really looking forward to having the DEM's support. If you or another member could join our forums, it will make communcation between the groups much easier. Currently, we're working on building some maps and smoothing out revive and entry point locations while the zed count is low. We also will be building official barricade plans for Pimbank and Peppardville soon, to the Northern side of the Zone. Thank you very much for your support! --Benigno 22:29, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm officially adding my support for this cause. Though I don't have a group, and I am only one person, I could do almost anything you needed. Tactics, plans, organisation, propaganda, or even just shooting a few zeds, just point me where you want to go. Also, if you ever need some maths worked out (optimal freerunning routes, barricade plans etc.) just ask.--Tom1990 12:07, 1 July 2007 (BST)

We appreciate the support! Anything you can add to the group, we appreciate. I think we're doing ok as far as barricade plans go, I did some of them personally. However optimal free-running routes and things like that are definitely important. Thanks for joining up, we're going through the processes of becoming a larger group and you've joined during an important time I believe. --Benigno ^{SSZ RCC} 17:59, 2 July 2007 (BST)

My! Quite the ambitious feat!

I was asked recently to look at this, and I must say: More power to you if you can pull this off. But do you truly feel you have enough influence and co-ordination between the various groups in this zone to create such a security zone? --MorthBabid 23:13, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

For now, try to focus on maintaining communication among each of the malls. Remember to keep an eye on the situation outside the malls as well as inside and give regular updates on the designated frequency. --Uncle Bill 00:10, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Dang, I hope I'll live to see the day for this thing to actually work. When newbies join UD and ask "ok, so what should I do now?" people will answer "Go to the Zone". :) Brings a warmth to your heart, doesn't it? I already am managing 2 alts and probably won't be making a third, so I won't be able to help out directly. --Jenx 09:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Secondary Objective?

I think that once the SSZ comes to fruition, we should consider a SSZ-SE around Bledsley, Joachim and Lumber Malls. But that's just my view of things. Daniel Hicken 00:42, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

We did discuss it, noticing that those three malls are relatively close and the two to the northwest as well. Pretty much, to include these in the SSZ would require enough people to adequately populate and defend ALL that territory. For now, even though Bledsley, Joachim, and Lumber aren't as close in proximity to each other as the malls in the SSZ, they can still serve to support one another in siege situations. I think the areas should stay autonomous for now, but I definately wouldn't rule out some future incorporation...--Benigno 01:28, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

--which is basically what I was saying... :) Daniel Hicken 01:59, 16 February 2007 (UTC) (Sorry if that comes across as snarky. It's not. :) )

Well I guess we're in agreement. The SSZ idea was Foobarosa's, but I'm sure he wouldn't mind if you took the idea and applied it to your area. I don't really wanna speak for anybody though.--Benigno 02:48, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

second map

I think it might be good ot have a second map for the VS and EH buildings, and another to show all of the resource buildings, etc. What do ya think people? I'll put this on the forum as well. --_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 23:54, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Mall Tour'07

...attacking woodroffe--Duke Garland 09:04, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Necrotech Security Zones

I thought I should point out that I've just created a new page outlining the concept of the Necrotech Security Zones. It applies many of the same principles of the SSZ, but it applies my own little pet theory that survivors are hurting themselves by viewing Malls as the most vital resource buildings instead of Necrotechs. I know this may sound odd coming from someone who's primary alt is one of the more infamous zombies in Malton, but I do enjoy coming up with and debating these ideas. -- Murray Jay Suskind 05:16, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

you're criticising SSZ, as if it doesn't care about NTs at all. that's wrong - although the ssz is defined by malls being close to each other, we don't underestimate importancy of NTs. i can write a long lecture with arguements, but not sure if it'll be better placed here or on NSZ talk page... --Duke Garland 11:23, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to expand upon your thoughts in the NSZ talk page. My main point is that is that the concept of the SSZ (focusing efforts and being highly mobile between vital resource points that are located close to one another) is a good one, but is flawed because the basis of the zone are the malls, when using the same tactics based out of NTs would be more effective. This doesn't mean that SSZ advocates think that NT's aren't important, but by basing your strategy on Malls over NT's (instead of the other way around), you've laid yourself open to being drained by the slow attrition of a zombie siege. When acknowledging the importance of NT's and choosing areas that have high concentrations of NT's, it is revealed that the SSZ isn't as easily defensible as it is at first glance (although Hildebrand may hold out a while because it's immediately next door to an NT). The NSZ flips the concept and treats NT's as the highest priority resource point around which a sound defense is developed and treats Malls as important (you'll note that each of the outlined NSZ's adjoin a mall) but secondary resource points. -- Murray Jay Suskind 19:44, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

No Murray, I don't think you actually get the basis of Urban Dead. Malls are the center of the game. Period. I'm sorry, even if the NT's are critical to the living, the malls are focused on sooo much because almost every useful item can be found there. Because of this and several other factors, they are also easier to defend against the undead. Kevin made them very good because of the zombie literature focusing on survivors holding out in malls against the undead plague. Another factor to why malls are focused on more than NT's is that they are useful to every character other than specialized NT employees (low level ones at that). Any character with free running and a few ranged weapon or healing skills will flock because of the availability of the items. So that's why malls are focused on by the SSZ, not NT's. --_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 22:41, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Let's take a look at the history, shall we? In the 4th siege of Caiger, the zombie horde went for the NT building. We held them off, with both needles and ammo from the nearby mall. Now consider Stickling: It was the fething Mall Tour, yet we held them off with both needles and bullets. And then there's Blackmore, where we were both way outnumbered and several AP from a mall, yet it held for weeks. Now, Murray could have been far more diplomatic with this, but mall-centric game play isn't really working anymore. I'm open to giving NT-centric game play a try, but I understand, of course, that the SSZ is your thing and that's what you believe in. Just don't write off the closest NT, okay?--Lachryma^☭ 22:48, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I never said that we write off the closest NT. I simply said that more characters go for malls, not NT's as they are more useful to specific types of characters. Heck, if we want revives, we hold the NT's. No questions asked. And the original SSZ has the malls, but was more focused on the PD's as places to hold initially. --_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 23:26, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

You just pointed out the problem: "Heck, if we want revives, we hold the NT's. No questions asked" People ignore the NTs, and then they act surprised when a corner of a mall drops in population. With the NSZ, one educates people to the importance of NTs. Every time a higher level survivor sleeps in a corner of a mall and thus spends their AP 'cading that corner and shooting invasive zombies, at least 2 survivors are denied a revive (20 AP+30 for searching, ect.) I understand that lower level characters can't take advantage of NTs, but they can help keep them safe.

...

You know what...I don't why I'm arguing this with you. You think malls are good, I think NTs are good. Let's agree to disagree, as there's no way we could sway each other.--Lachryma^☭ 00:17, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I think you're working off of a number of false premises. If the zombie canon was was the only thing Kevan was basing the game off of, then there would be no NT's at all. Instead he has given survivors a chance to come back to life in the game. The importance of this cannot be overstated. In the classic zombie siege where zombie and survivor numbers are roughly equivalent, the zombies slowly win as the revive queues keep building and building, eventually causing a survivor collapse. I understand that it's fun to shoot and kill zombies, but the name of the game is survival. After the cades and FAK's have gone down as the first line of defense, it's more important to maintain survivor numbers through revives than it is to keep shooting zombies (which the trenchcoaters will take care of anyway) or hunting down PKers. I know you've put a lot of effort in the SSZ and that now is not a great time to be picking at the concept. But fundamentally we're in agreement (and I owe a lot of my formulation of the NSZ to the SSZ). Concentrated resources are vital for survivor defense. Mobility is a key to holding out against the zombie hordes. The only difference is the primacy we place on certain resources. Syringes are much more important than guns in my book. Because of that, I think the best defense would center around NT's. Finally, on a tangential but related point, the one block NT is -- from a numbers perspective -- easier to hold than the four block mall where all is pretty much lost when one corner is ransacked. All you have to do is get the numbers there. -- Murray Jay Suskind 00:05, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Bah I didn't realize that there was even this discussion going on here. The NTs are 100% vital to the zone, and indeed the survivor cause in all of Malton. The SSZ focuses on the malls as the center of survivor population, but not survivor power. Instead the SSZ is comprised of a network of ALL the resource buildings, working together to form an integrated system. Currently our policy on the NTs is to keep them EHB with a designated entry point, however because of this simplification NTs aren't really mentioned anymore on the main page of the SSZ document. I'll probably change that. The NSZ idea isin't bad, but the zones are too small, and I think the NSZ idea should be incorporated into the SSZ plans. It can only serve to strengthen the zone. Just thought I'd put in my eight cents - - Benigno ^{SSZ RCC} 18:43, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I happen to think that malls are overrated. And if you want to quote scripture, the Torah of Romero instructs us that fortesses are illuions of safety. Dawn 78, Day of the Dead, Land of the Dead... in all cases, the "fortesses" fall... But malls are overrated because even if they have everything in abundance (well, if and only if you have Free Running, Shopping AND Bargain hunting), they are STATIC TARGETS. And static targets allow for -- they INVITE -- a concentration of forces against them...

On the other hand, concentrating on "clusters" of TRPs and NTa gives you a supply source almost as good as a mall. And it's a lot less static, a lot more versitile and flexible, and a lot less vulnerable. Instead of the zombies dividing and conquering the SSZ by occupying the few NTs in the middle, now it's the zeds who are forced to thin out. And zeds don't work as well when spread out...

And oh yeah, newbs actually get to help out if the defense isn't all about malls. Newbs aka ferals are a big part of zed assaults... Give a feral something to fight for, and you have a vicious and HUNGRY warrior on your side. Let's give survivor newbs something to fight for, let's makes them OUR ferals... And not just say, "You don't have a place in a mall defense, go somewhere else till you've got more XP by healing people"...

Malls will always be important buildings. I'm not arguing against their value, but I am arguing against their OVER-valuing. The SSZ is a great idea on paper, it's a significant and important evolution in survivor thinking. But it's not IMNSHO the last nor the best answer. Honestly, the NTSZ, incorporating murray's "whack-a-mole" ideas, which I developed a little, are probably the next step. --WanYao 12:03, 6 August 2007 (BST)

We totally know all this already! The basis of our defense is not malls, it's ALL the resource buildings. We just used the malls to define our territory. Necrotechs are the most important...who's gonna populate the area if they're all still swaying? Trust me, we're incorporating the ideas in the NSZ proposal, and we already had been to some degree before that.

The thing is, this is about the one billionth time I've said this. The SSZ does not rely on malls for its defense. Malls are weak defensively and are notoriously hard to defend against large, organized groups of zombies. The SSZ's defense is based on a network of resource buildings and having them work together for the common defense. So please, everyone, stop assuming we place the highest value on malls. We just try and protect them because that's where tons of people are most of the time. Malls enrich the survivor experience. Thanks for your understanding. --Benigno ^{SSZ RCC} 17:23, 6 August 2007 (BST)

We do indeed realize that when trying to retake a suburb, it is impossible without having the NT building in our grasp. We've learned the hard way. --_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 01:23, 7 August 2007 (BST)

Tactics?

Why is this in Category:Tactics? It's not really a tactic so much as a nickname for an area of land and a page of groups dedicated to defending that territory.--Karek^maps?! 10:30, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah you're right, I don't think it belongs in 'tactics', since we use already existing tactics to defend the area. --Benigno ^{SSZ RCC} 16:47, 2 February 2008 (UTC)