Developing Suggestions

Developing Suggestions

This section is for presenting and reviewing suggestions which have not yet been submitted and are still being worked on.

Nothing on this page will be archived.

Further Discussion

• Discussion concerning this page takes place here.
• Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general, including policies about it, takes place here.

Please Read Before Posting

• Be sure to check The Frequently Suggested List and the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots before you post your idea. You can read about many ideas that have been suggested already, which users should be aware of before posting what could be a dupe: a duplicate of an existing suggestion. These include Machine Guns and Sniper Rifles.
• Users should be aware that page is discussion oriented. Other users are free to express their own point of view and are not required to be neutral.
• If you decide not to take your suggestion to voting, please remove it from this page to avoid clutter.
• It is recommended that users spend some time familiarizing themselves with this page before posting their own suggestions.
• After new game updates, users are requested to allow time for the game and community to adjust to these changes before suggesting alterations.

How To Make a Suggestion

Adding a New Suggestion

• Copy the code in the box below.
• Click here to begin editing. This is the same as clicking the [edit] link to the right of the Suggestions header.

• Paste the copied text above the other suggestions, right under the heading.
• Substitute the text in RED CAPITALS with the details of your suggestion.

{{subst:DevelopingSuggestion
|time=~~~~
|name=SUGGESTION NAME
|type=TYPE HERE
|scope=SCOPE HERE
|description=DESCRIPTION HERE
}}

• Name - Give the suggestion a short but descriptive name.
• Type is the nature of the suggestion, such as a new class, skill change, balance change, etc. Basically: What is it? and Is it new, or a change?
• Scope is who or what the suggestion affects. Typically survivors or zombies (or both), but occasionally Malton, the game interface or something else.
• Description should be a full explanation of your suggestion. Include information like flavor text, search odds, hit percentages, etc, as appropriate. Unless you are as yet unsure of the exact details behind the suggestion, try not to leave out anything important. Check your spelling and grammar.

Cycling Suggestions

• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past two days should be given a warning notice. This can be done by adding {{SDW|date}} at the top of the discussion section, where date is the day the suggestion will be removed.
• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past week may be removed.
• If you are adding a comment to a suggestion that has the warning template please remove the {{SDW|date}} at the top of the discussion section to show that there is still ongoing discussion.

This page is prone to breaking when the page gets too long, so sometimes suggestions still under discussion will be moved to the Overflow page, so the discussion can continue.

Please add new suggestions to the top of the list

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Beginners get percentage bonus on attacks

Timestamp: Gmanyo 17:29, 26 May 2010 (BST)

Type: Balance change

Scope: All newbie players

Description: I noticed that it is very difficult to attack things as a beginner, not necessarily because attacks do very little damage, but because your chances of hitting are so low. It makes it difficult for beginners to attain their first skill. I am suggesting that we add a 5% bonus on hit chance to all players who have not yet acquired another skill. This would only modify the chance of hitting, not the damage. For example, if a new player tried to punch something, they would have a 15% chance of hitting instead of 10%, but it would still only do 1 damage. The player would lose this after gaining their first skill. In other words, as soon as the player got one skill they would no longer have this bonus. The bonus would also count for zombie attacks. I think that this would help give newbie characters a kick start into the game. At the same time the bonus wouldn't be enough of a boost to keep people from leveling up to keep the bonus, because the benefits of a new skill would be greater than the benefits of the bonus.

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Burning Down The House

Timestamp: Captain Howdy 09:25, 26 May 2010 (BST)

Type:

Scope: Buildings

Description: Having a Fuel Can in your Inventory while inside a building gives you a new button: Start Fire. This action consumes 5 AP and 1 Fuel Can. You cannot start a fire inside a building that has Survivors or Zombies inside; as they will stop you. Preforming this action has a 50% to Burn you, causeing 30 HP of damage. After starting a fire your next action must be Movement or you will automatically suffer 30 HP worth of damage. So there is a chance you could suffer 60 HP if you dont leave. The effect of burning the building is the same as Ruin. Once you have left the building after starting the fire the building acts as any other ruin and can be entered as normal.

Discussion (Burning Down The House)

Yee-haw! No death-cultists don't need infections anymore to create pinatas, just an empty EHB barn and a fuel can. And they can keep going without needing a fresh revive afterwards. -- Spiderzed▋ 17:59, 26 May 2010 (BST)

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Revive Recovery

Timestamp: Captain Howdy 09:04, 26 May 2010 (BST)

Type:

Scope: Revived players

Description: Standing up from a Revive costs +10 AP. So players without Ankle grab would pay 20 to Stand after a Revive and players with Ankle Grab would pay 11 to Stand after a Revive. This will discourage suicide in the form of repairs, meatsheilding, etc.

Discussion (Revive Recovery)

Also discourages new players from playing the game.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:01, 26 May 2010 (BST)

So lower it to +5. Then a new Survivor can pay 15 and not be any more discouraged than a new zombie getting Headshot. :P Except of course that its a million times easier for a Survivor to get the XP they need for Ankle Grab.--Captain Howdy 18:13, 26 May 2010 (BST)

Except this suggestion is the reason ankle grab was put in. Understand the game before you demand that you're right.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:23, 26 May 2010 (BST)

Right. So only zombies should be discouraged.--Captain Howdy 18:27, 26 May 2010 (BST)

Hell no. Do not make the game less fun. - User:Whitehouse 18:16, 26 May 2010 (BST)

Unless you're a zombie. Then make the game a little fun as possible :P--Captain Howdy 18:23, 26 May 2010 (BST)

This makes the game less fun for EVERYONE.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:23, 26 May 2010 (BST)

Not for zombies. It just levels the 'less fun' out for Survivors too.--Captain Howdy 18:27, 26 May 2010 (BST)

Combat revies will now also drain 10AP from zombies. Doubt they will love that. - User:Whitehouse 18:28, 26 May 2010 (BST)

Yeah, so I think it should only be +5 now. It would be worth it I think. I'm so used to paying 6 to stand I doubt I'd even notice.--Captain Howdy 18:30, 26 May 2010 (BST)

It wouldn't. It would stop people playing.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:38, 26 May 2010 (BST)

You need to understand the game before making comments.--Captain Howdy 18:40, 26 May 2010 (BST)

I have three fully-levelled characters, have been in the game for three years, and have been an active member of this suggestions system for over a year, with a suggestion in peer reviewed. Your suggestion is atrocious, and will only cause more problems in the game. Stop trolling and accept that it won't work.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:43, 26 May 2010 (BST)

Whatever. You think only zombies should suffer this 'atrocious' effect and no matter how many characters you play you're arguing from a purely dedicated survivor point of view. You're a biased idiot and I'm done with you. Not to mention that you have stop using logic and fallen into the logical fallacy of Appeal to authority--Captain Howdy 18:47, 26 May 2010 (BST)

You're a newb, but please, fuck off. --Thadeous Oakley 18:55, 26 May 2010 (BST)

Logical fallacy: Ad hominem.--Captain Howdy 18:57, 26 May 2010 (BST)

I'm sorry, is calling someone an idiot not ad hominem now?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:58, 26 May 2010 (BST)

I have two zombie characters, one of whom is in a giant seige right now, and the other is in a safe suburb creating a pinata. Send this to voting if you want, but it'll be spaminated within the day.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:56, 26 May 2010 (BST)

Logical fallacy: Argumentum ad populum.--Captain Howdy 18:58, 26 May 2010 (BST)

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Minor change to feeding drag

Timestamp: 01:01, 24 May 2010 (BST)

Type: A, uh, minor change to feeding drag

Scope: Zombies

Description: So I just found out the hard way that doors interfere with Feeding Drag. As a death cultist, I often organise pinatas with members of my group, and clearing out a building in an AP-efficient way is vital to this, as it also is to any zombie group hoping to help feed its bahbahz, or to low-level ferals. Feeding Drag is essential to minimising AP expenditure in ruining/pinta-making, aids ferals by restricting the odds of survivors healing a target, and allows groups to drag out weakened victims to let newer members gain kill xp to aid in levelling. But all it takes to stop this is closing the doors of the building, adding an extra step to the process. Obviously this isn't a major thing, or I'd have noticed it before, but it's one of those small things that could be changed to A) streamline things (doors are just a messy thing in general in this game) and B) provide a very slight aid to ferals, low-level zombies and death cults, but mostly the ferals really. All it takes is removing the restriction on Feeding Drag whilst the doors are closed, and probably having the door remain closed behind the dragging zombie just to keep it balanced, though that's not really necessary. 01:01, 24 May 2010 (BST)

Discussion (Minor change to feeding drag)

Nah, don't make the door close on the way out, it'd be pointless since the zed who did Feeding Drag would probs just walk back in anyway. I like the suggestion. zombie balances!! --

 

 

 

 

01:31, 24 May 2010 (BST)

I agree, doors should stay open on dragging out. Hell, add some flavor text for people so that rather than the generic drag text, you read about the doors being slammed open as he's dragged out. —Aichon— 01:38, 24 May 2010 (BST)

I was trying to find the flavour text to suggest new ones based on it, but couldn't see it. I'll figure something out. 01:53, 24 May 2010 (BST)

Aichon+1. Let'em drag through the door and keep it open, dammit. -- Spiderzed▋ 11:34, 24 May 2010 (BST)

As stated. Show the zambahz some love.--Austin hunt 18:31, 24 May 2010 (BST)

Keep - It makes no sense that I have to walk outside before I can walk outside with a friend. It almost makes it quicker to kill them. --VVV ^RPMBG 04:55, 24 May 2010 (BST)

I'd vote for it. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 22:33, 24 May 2010 (BST)

So your suggestion is to allow a zombie to drag a survivor through a closed door? How? Magic? I can see not wanting to take the "extra step" of having to spend the AP to open the doors before dragging (especially in a live battle where the survivors would be closing them as soon as they can), but isn't that part of the fun? Tactics? Not to mention, as in the suggestion, you only need to spend 1 AP to keep the doors open "permanently" to clear out the building via drag (not to mention drag's other restrictions). If your worried about someone closing the door before you can do all the dragging, you probably have more important (ie a live battle) circumstances to contend with. That having been said, Aichon's suggestion that the doors stay open makes sense. After all, you grab someone and crash through the doors, dragging them with you. The only thing I'd add would be a chance of "letting go" if you go through the doors. Crashing through closed door might make you drop the victim.--Pesatyel 04:07, 25 May 2010 (BST)

It's more to allow them to open in in the same action as the drag, rather than having to go "leave, enter, drag" just cause the door is closed. Whether the door stays open or not is easily changeable. 22:57, 25 May 2010 (BST)

I'd vote keep for sure. Gmanyo 17:40, 26 May 2010 (BST)

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Feeding Groan for Barricades

Timestamp: 09:52, 16 May 2010 (BST)

Type: New Skill for Zombies

Scope: To improve in game cooperation for zombies.

Description: A skill to allow zombies to 'Smash' the barricades of a building, and like feeding groan, attract the attention of nearby zombies. The idea being that this would allow a feral zombie to reduce a barricade, and then attract other zombies, spending 1 AP, just like feeding groan. Just as how noise in films can attract zombies. This allows cooperation between people in game, without needing metagaming for zombies to work together to bring down buildings. Prerequisities: Vigour Mortis Location in Skill tree: After Vigor Mortis Crossover skill: No Effect for Humans Cost in XP: 100XP, zombie Skill How it's activated: A New Button, Like feeding groan, only available when in front of barricades. Cost in AP: 1

Discussion (Feeding Groan for Barricades)

Fixed the formatting, but as for your idea, it still has some issues with it. Feeding Groan right now is based off of the survivor population in a building; what would this be based off of? Barricade level? Recently reduced barricade levels? Size of horde outside? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 16:18, 16 May 2010 (BST)

Thank you for fixing my formatting, I'm not very skilled when it comes to stuff like that. The easiest solution would be to have it at a fixed setting. I don't know how hard it would be to implement a recently reduced barricade level based system, but that would be the ideal. The more grades the barricade had been lowered within the past half hour maybe? --Ad'lan 22:51, 17 May 2010 (BST)

The game doesn't track how much the cades drop, and if it goes off the number of zombies, it could lead you to a cemetery/ruin. The glory of zombie communication is that it can be trusted, whereas graffiti and radios are prime targets for making bounty hunters look like PKers, and vise versa. --VVV ^RPMBG 01:15, 18 May 2010 (BST)

Currently, when you attack barricades, the RNG gives you a number from 1 to 20 (1 to 40 when inside a dark building). If you get above a certain number, depending on your skill level (10 if you're maxed out), you destroy a level. My version: No skill. When you attack barricades from the outside, if you roll a 20, then every zombie in an adjacent block will hear it. --VVV ^RPMBG 01:15, 18 May 2010 (BST)

My version would be a skill that meant that every time you lowered cades a whole category (ie: light to loose) everyone in the 3x3 block hears the noise. Survivors inside would also hear and the noise could be ignored using the control panel. --Honestmistake 08:18, 18 May 2010 (BST)

Something bugs me about this idea... But my idea doesn't bug me as much ;) This is my idea... Any sounds that are made are heard in a certain radius -- i'll run with ross's 3x3 radius -- but you don't know where exactly they came from. So you'd get a message like, "You hear the sound of crumbling barricades somewhere nearby". I think another tweak would be, first of all, you don't need a new skill to use the ability -- just link it to an existing skill, say Tangling Grasp. And you`d get an option to shake, rattle or roll the barricades by expending an AP after -- and only after -- a successful cade hit. The result would be on spammy side, sure, but no different from flare guns, really. And shorter ranged, so less spammy. --WanYao 22:15, 18 May 2010 (BST)

The motivation behind my suggestion is a method for zombies to work together, without needing to use a metagame function. If you see a Barricade being attacked nearby, you can wander over and join in. If you see one attacked 12 hours ago, you can wander over, and wait another 12 hours to hopefully coincide your attacks. --Ad'lan 07:55, 19 May 2010 (BST)

I think that's somewhat obvious. My version of the suggestion has the same effect but adds a random/investigative element to the ability. --WanYao 08:35, 19 May 2010 (BST)

I like the idea of zombies being able to track barricade levels through sound somehow. How about this: any time a barricade goes down a level below VSB, it makes a distinctive crashing sound that can be heard by zombies with Memories of Live within a 9 block radius, signaling which direction it came from (for example - "a crash came from the NE"). Like scent death and feeding groan, this would provide zombies with imperfect information that is always "true". It wouldn't reach zombies across the suburb so it wouldn't be overpowered, but it would serve to have zombies in close proximity zero in on barricades that are in jeopardy of falling.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 10:14, 19 May 2010 (BST)

I quite like this, and I'm definitely a fan of the boost to MoL.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 10:20, 19 May 2010 (BST)

That also sounds good to me, and is even simpler. And it would help even more zombies. VSB is the important level, because less than VSB, a full set of AP can usually gnaw through --Ad'lan 18:32, 19 May 2010 (BST)

I think that being reduced below VSB and then being destroyed should make a sound, without any skill prerequisite--Corndoghero^T-S-Z 09:28, 20 May 2010 (BST)

I very much like this idea for zombies (particularly WanYao's version), but I also think there should be a more limited crossover for survivors. Something akin to "XXX adds to the barricades" or "YYY removes some of the barricades", but only when the level of barricades change; so you would notice HB+1 > VSB+2, but you would not notice VSB+0 > VSB+2. Also would only be relevant for the current block the survivor is in. If you link it to an existing skill, I would think Construction would be the most natural choice--or a sub-skill thereof. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 09:15, 20 May 2010 (BST)

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Rename "Fire Axe" to "Axe"

Timestamp: CorndogheroT-S-Z 11:36, 12 May 2010 (BST)

Type: small textual adjustment

Scope: Anyone who uses or comes in contact with axes

Description: Instead of appearing as "Fire Axe" in the inventory, the item currently known as "Fire Axe" would simply be known as "Axe". This allows for some ambiguity as to whether one is using a fire axe, a hatchet, a medieval battleaxe, a woodcutting axe, et cetera.

Discussion (Rename "Fire Axe" to "Axe")

Kitchen knife was renamed to "knife" because of the veritable plethora of places where it could be found, it made zero sense for them all to be kitchen knives. The fire axe though is well named as last time I checked there is only one type of axe that would make sense to be found in those places. People usually don't store their battleaxe in auto repair shops. -Devorac 13:16, 12 May 2010 (BST)

I think, think, this is a dupe. I'd suggest checking for this if you ever decide to take it to voting. --

 

 

 

 

13:24, 12 May 2010 (BST)

As a medieval re-enactor, I personnally store my battleaxe in my garage. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Murdoc (talk • contribs) at an unknown time.

In all honesty, a fire axe is the only thing that makes sense to crop up with such regularity in a city. 14:00, 12 May 2010 (BST)

How about renaming it to Fire Ax.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 14:14, 12 May 2010 (BST)

Because that's not a word. 14:46, 12 May 2010 (BST)

The dictionary I checked (Oxford) disagrees with you. It's a valid alternate spelling. —Aichon— 00:27, 13 May 2010 (BST)

You new worlders and your disappearing letters. Given that the game users "colour" uniformly I can't see "ax" being added. 13:08, 13 May 2010 (BST)

Well, to be fair, I wasn't actually sure if it was an American thing or not. I checked Wikipedia though, and it says that both spellings are valid in the US, which is what I always figured, since I've used "axe" most of the time. I was aware that some Americans actually take the two spellings to have slightly different meanings, though I can never keep track of which is which. —Aichon— 19:34, 13 May 2010 (BST)

Based on that new piece of information I am now going to assume that American mechanics use renches and anyone with a wrench wishes me harm. 00:34, 16 May 2010 (BST)

I want an "Axe of Fire"! But really, I can't imagine there being that many variations of axes in Malton. The one variation I can imagine would be the sort you take with you when you go camping. - User:Whitehouse 14:29, 12 May 2010 (BST)

I am not Iscariot --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 15:42, 12 May 2010 (BST)

Wow, nearly exactly a year.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:05, 12 May 2010 (BST)

Would it be a dupe if we changed the suggestion to "Rename Fire Axe to Firefighter's Axe"?--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 17:29, 13 May 2010 (BST)

Badoomching. --VVV ^RPMBG 21:29, 15 May 2010 (BST)

a) It's spelled "axe" you gorram backwards colonials! Oh... wait... I'm a backwards colonial, too. Nevermind... ;) b) Fire axes are found all over the place: "Break glass in case of emergency" type things... It's perfectly realistic to leave it as is. --WanYao 22:01, 18 May 2010 (BST)

I actually would rather not do this. I enjoy having the game less generic: the "fire axe" gives an image of a bloodstained, two-handed axe salvaged from some fire department. Saying "axe" would be boring. Plus, it works better with the fireman. Gmanyo 17:59, 26 May 2010 (BST)

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Shove Zombies

Timestamp: Scvideoking 02:58, 10 May 2010 (BST)

Type: Skill

Scope: Survivors

Description:OK se we all know a zombie can grab us and drag us to street level at some point right? well how about survivors can shove zombies out windows? I mean its realistic and a bit more fair. This would have the same use as a weapon except if you succeded text would be You grab the zombie by the neck and shove it with all your might out the nearest window Heres are examples You are stading in x the building is dark there is 2 zombies here(AP would be 10 to shove one out of the dark building) You are standing in x the building unlit There is 1 zombie here(5 AP to shove out) Youu are standing in x the building is lit There is 1 zombie here(3 AP) What happens to the zombie? he is forced to street level You could also be brought with the zombie(Cause its pretty damn hard to get one off you) Credit to maverick though i did make some adjustments 15% you shove the zombie out the window 75% you and the zombie both go out the window 10% you miss the zombie and fall out the window if you fall out with it you suffer -5 HP without The zombie you die This also isnt something EVERYONE can do you must get the skill witch would be a misc skill Not an insta kill if u shove them out of a window

Discussion (Shove Zombies)

I think you need to learn to follow the instructions at the top of this page, rather than thinking you can outsmart them by just copy/pasting from someone else (I had to fix it for you, just as someone has to for almost every suggestion you make). I also think it's a horribly overpowered idea. You're essentially giving survivors an insta-kill against zombies that always works and will cost 5ap or less in most cases. Currently, the cheapest way to remove a zombie from a building is to revive it, which costs 10AP for the revive, an average of 12AP for the searching, 1AP for the body dump, and some unknown amount of AP for travel to and from the NT facility. So, you're suggesting we go from the best method being, say, 30AP to 5AP, and you see nothing wrong with this at all? —Aichon— 03:27, 10 May 2010 (BST)

Did you read this correctly Aichon? there is no INSTA-kill you just shove them out a nearby window and since they are already dead they lose no HP plus if u revive a zombie there is a chance they will just PK u.--Scvideoking 22:08, 11 May 2010 (BST)scvideoking

I read it correctly (back before you removed the text). It said What happens to the zombie? he is forced to street level and needs to stand up HP loss is 2 for they are already dead. Since I couldn't make sense of the "HP loss is 2" part (I thought you were saying that they lost all of their HP too), it sounded an awful lot like an insta-kill attack. Anyway, as was pointed out, throwing a zombie outside is as good as killing them anyway. Whereas survivors lose a lot of AP having to get revived, zombies lose it when they have to break into a building. Insta-kill or not, it's overpowered to ludicrous levels. —Aichon— 00:18, 12 May 2010 (BST)

Yes this is entirely equal to feeding drag. Perhaps better adherence to barricade plans, HIPS, damn tactics, Sutherland's, or any number of good tactical doctrines expounded on this wiki would mean that you'd be better prepared to HOLY FUCKING SHIT A ZOMBIE WE ARE SO SHITTERED 03:33, 10 May 2010 (BST)

The only way I would get behind this is if the attack rates were as follows:

• 10% you shove the zombie out the window
• 10% you and the zombie both go out the window
• 80% you miss the zombie and fall out the window

Naturally, if the survivor goes out the window, s/he dies as per usual. Then MAYBE I could get behind this. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 08:00, 10 May 2010 (BST)

I would definitely vote keep with the percentages above. Make it a 1AP action, too. Also, make it the survivor default attack. --Karloth Vois ^¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:43, 10 May 2010 (BST)

Okay, I'll bite and give serious feedback. Change the above numbers to 10% each and the remaining 70% doing nothing and I could vote for it... As long as the following were all added:

• It's a new skill requiring maxed hand to hand.
• It only kills if you were in tall buildings with less than VS barricades
• It only causes 5 damaged if used from any other building (and even then can only be used if no cades are present.
• but most importantly... it was an alternative skill to headshot. Thats right, one or the other but not both. --Honestmistake 17:08, 10 May 2010 (BST)

What about people who have headshot and want zombie shove instead?--V darkstar 19:33, 10 May 2010 (BST)

Fuck them! --Honestmistake 00:53, 11 May 2010 (BST)

Oh okay.... I suppose we could just have kevan recode the database to refund the xp cost to every player with headshot? --Honestmistake 00:55, 11 May 2010 (BST)

I can't tell if you're being serious or not, but on the off-chance you are, it'd only take a one-line SQL command to the database to refund the XP. Anyone familiar with relational tables and SQL could probably write you the code in a minute or two. —Aichon— 00:29, 12 May 2010 (BST)

This is an awful concept as presented, but I can think of a couple of changes to make it worthwhile. In fact, I'm not entirely opposed to the whole concept if it's modified properly.

First, Feeding Drag requires that the victim be low on health... down to 13 HP, actually. I see no reason that the same restriction shouldn't apply to Shove. You shouldn't be able to shove a reasonably healthy zombie out the door, both for realism and game play purposes.

Second, I think it should be a standard attack on the dropdown menu appearing like Feeding Drag, and have a % chance of success or failure just like other attacks.

Third, your system of varied AP cost to shove depending on building type and condition is weird and unappealing. It shouldn't cost more than 1 AP, regardless of building type. I do think that some sort of modifier is appropriate for building conditions, but not an AP modifier. More likely a % chance of success modifier, or a chance for the zombie to retaliate with one or more bite auto-attacks (Yes, I know, "no auto-attacks". I don't care. I think it's a good idea in this case. We're talking about someone trying to greco-roman wrestle a zombie through a door... the odds of a bite would be gigantic and merit an auto-attack, and more than one if you're trying to do it in the dark).

Fourth, I like Maverick's idea of the player possibly ending up outside with or instead of the zombie, but not his implementation. I think it's perfectly reasonable that you should likely end up outside, but that shouldn't hurt on its own, and you can just spend another 1 AP to go back inside. A minor feature, nearly meaningless, but kind of nice and good flavor.

Fifth, I don't see the point of this costing the zombie any health or knocking him down. It's a shove. It takes 5 shotgun blasts to knock a healthy zombie down, and you want to hurt him and knock him down with a shove? Don't be ridiculous. Besides, zombies only fall down when they're at 0 HP, for reasons seen on this page many times in the past, and always rise with full health.

These changes would result in your example looking more like this:

• You are stading in x the building is dark

there is 2 zombies here - attack option - Shove 1 out- 1 AP, 25% of normal chance of success, zombie gets 2 bite auto attacks, 90% chance you are dragged outside with the zombie

• You are standing in x the building unlit

There is 1 zombie here - attack option - Shove 1 out- 1 AP, 66% of normal chance of success, zombie gets 1 bite auto attack, 75% chance you are dragged outside with the zombie

• You are standing in x the building is lit

There is 1 zombie here- attack option - Shove 1 out- 1 AP, 100% of normal chance of success, zombie gets 1 bite auto attack, 50% chance you are dragged outside with the zombie

Of course, this requires figuring out what the "normal chance of success" should be. I think it should be fairly low, since it's hard to shove anyone through any door. Ever tried it? It's pretty damn hard if they don't want to go. But it could also open up a new hand-to-hand branch on the skill tree for improvement in this. If it's just a set skill with no hope of improvement, I'd suggest maybe a 25% chance. If it becomes its own branch on the skill tree with room for improvement, I'd suggest less, maybe 10-20%. That'd give room for more skills to improve it. Or it could be enhanced by Body Building, so that the skills could become complimentary.

I think that with these modifications, or something like them, this could provide an interesting alternative for daring survivors to remove low-HP zombies from a building rather than spending the AP on attacks to finish them and dump the bodies. I wouldn't expect it to pass a vote, though, and I'm betting that someone shows poor reading comprehension and/or ends up CNR by claiming that what I'm proposing is a 100% chance of success in lit buildings rather than not having a penalty on their normal attack rate of somewhere around 10-25%. So let's be clear, the % chances listed in the examples are suggestions of modifiers to their normal % chance of attack success, not their actual % chance to succeed at this. Just in case anyone reads this far. Which they probably won't, at least not attentively.

And while I'm here, where ideas go to die, I've been wondering about something unrelated. When a survivor climbs up a tall building and jumps off, he dies. He then has to stand up, and is at full zombie HP. When a zombie does the same, he doesn't even fall down, and his HP aren't renewed. Why? Is there any point to this? It seems like it's deliberate, because it runs contrary to the rest of gameflow. Low-HP zombies can kill one another to avoid headshot, why can't they climb and jump to do the same? I figured I'd ask a group of people whose experience rationalizing and justifying poor game features that put zombies at a disadvantage is truly staggering, so I came here. It's definitely a minor issue, but it's got me curious, and perhaps one of you can provide an actual reason.--Necrofeelinya 00:54, 11 May 2010 (BST)

Basically its because getting someone else to kill you to avoid headshot requires co-operation and timing while an action that allows you to do it without help is much easier to abuse. --Honestmistake 00:57, 11 May 2010 (BST)

Yeah, but it doesn't matter when zombies die. They just get up again. Closing off a minor game exploit like that with a feature that runs contrary to common sense while leaving open the options of Whack'N'Fak, VSB ruins, pro-human zombies, etc. doesn't make sense to me. I'm wondering if there's a reason that goes beyond that. After all, for a zombie to seek out a tall building, enter, climb, jump and rise again would usually take a certain amount of AP... often more than just eating the headshot. Can you think of any other reason that zombies committing suicide might negatively affect gameplay?--Necrofeelinya 01:07, 11 May 2010 (BST)

Yes. So a zombie doesn't just enter, jump out, stand up, and re-enter any time he takes down the barricades of a tall building. That's what feeding on corpses is for. Getting other zombies to kill you is a really unavoidable side effect of a system which doesn't prohibit life cultism. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:53, 11 May 2010 (BST)

So the whole purpose of this is to prevent lone ferals low on HP from breaking into the occasional tall building, finding harmans, spending AP to climb, jump, stand and reenter instead of just attacking right away, and holding position with 50 or 60 HP while groaning for help instead of whatever HP they had before? It's not hard enough to kill and dump a lone zombie, even at full health, for that to seem like much reason to code in such a fashion as to prevent zombies from suicide. All this does is help nerf the already-largely-nerfed feral and baby zombies. It has no effect on any group larger than 2, and it looks like the likelihood of it having a serious in-game effect is next to nil. I'm beginning to wonder if it's just an oversight on Kevan's part, where for some reason the "jump" option was only coded to affect survivors, but on the face of it, it seems deliberate.--Necrofeelinya 03:38, 11 May 2010 (BST)

"zombie gets 2 bite auto attacks" NO AUTO-ATTACKS this has been proven to be unbalanced and unfair to the gameplay, just look it up on the frequently suggested.--V darkstar 13:40, 11 May 2010 (BST)

Before getting your hackles up you might want to actually look into past precedent, I know of at least one auto-attack that is sitting in peer reviewed. -Devorac 19:16, 11 May 2010 (BST)

I'd also like to point out that in this instance, an auto-attack is far less dangerous than a regular attack. If I'm a survivor, which do I prefer? Getting hit with an auto-attack by a logged-off player, or getting hit with a full-on assault by a logged in zombie while I'm logged off? If I get bitten by an auto-attack, I can spend the rest of my AP fleeing and healing before the zombie even wakes up. It's not that big a deal. The most it's likely to do is startle me and possibly trick me into fleeing out of fear that the zombie player is also logged on and might continue attacking, which still doesn't prevent me from fleeing and healing even if he is logged on. In a regular attack, the survivor is asleep and gets teed off on until the zombie runs out of AP.

The ban on auto-attacks is to prevent things like land mines, where the player is unaware that the attack might be forthcoming and the damage may be severe. In this case, the player knows the attack might occur, and chooses whether or not to risk it. It's both voluntary to risk it and extremely limited in potential damage (unless the survivor is stupid enough to shove without a FAK and gets infected, in which case he deserves to die). Besides, there's already an auto-attack implemented in-game. When you free run into ruins you fall to the ground and injure yourself. That's effectively an auto-attack. It hasn't had any noticeable effect on game balance. And as far as I'm concerned, even with my suggestions adopted to change it, this is still just basically a survivor buff, albeit an interesting one. The only question is whether the auto-attack should cost the zombie AP, to which I say no. I think the effect is minor, and it's generally not considered a good idea to mess with players' AP... they might prefer to use it another way, such as attacking when they actually have a chance of killing someone. No need for the auto-attack to use any AP, especially since the survivor is coming to them.--Necrofeelinya 01:02, 12 May 2010 (BST)

I agree with what maverick said--Scvideoking 21:48, 11 May 2010 (BST)scvideoking

I'm afraid that, even though you insist it isn't an instant kill, it is. Zombies, having no ability to die, instead experience death by being kicked out of buildings and made to stand up. That's their equivalent of death. Your suggestions includes both as part of the attack.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:29, 11 May 2010 (BST)

If you fall ou will land on your back our face up and since a zombie can still control the body but quite poorly i may add they would have to stand up--Scvideoking 22:47, 11 May 2010 (BST)scvideoking

Your formatting sucks and I had to fix your comment for you; your idea is completely idiotic and shows both a complete lack of experience as a zombie and a total inability to read what people who know what they're talking about have written; your suggestion is a stupid, over-powered instant kill that hurts zombies even more than normal death by preventing them from responding with a timely rise. Your idea would break the game, end playing as a zombie, decide all sieges in survivor favor, and destroy Urban Dead as we know it. Wise up or I get the pretty pictures to better explain this simple concept. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 00:08, 12 May 2010 (BST)

Lelouch i Know it sucks as told to me by aichon another sysop so please read the disscussion before telling me things i already know as for the signature i hit the button then typen my name as the wiki does not have(of my knowledge) a guide for new users to the wiki as of my suggestion this is not a way for survivors to become better than zombies it is in a way fair tho even though we can cade buildings and send broadcasts zombies have many numbers and many more skills than the survivors Where as this is where a player with said skill can shove a zombie out of a building but there is the possiblity of them going out the window w/ them and another possibility is you could miss and fall out then die. i am not sure the rules for sysops but i think(not sure) is that they are kind to new wiki users and explain what they did wrong this is a wiki and most of all this is a game in my opionion the game is not good and needs some major work done on several levels but that is my opinion I play it because i am bored and its something that can take about 30 min of time.--scvideoking —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Scvideoking (talk • contribs) at an unknown time.

Leluch isn't a sysop, and no, sysops arn't required to be nice to newbies (even though most are). As you can see here, zombies do not have "many numbers", they are in the minority, always. One critical point you don't seem to get here, is that zombies don't really care about dying, except when that means they get dumped out of the building they are trying to clear out. That's the only reason zombies care about HP. Getting pushed out of a building without having to be killed or revived, then, is a big blow to deal for very little risk, unless you do it the way the guys above say (in jest) -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 04:22 14 May 2010 (BST)

I didn't say it sucked. I said it was horribly overpowered. It's an interesting idea, but needs a lot of work if it's going to avoid being spaminated when/if it gets put up for a vote. I'm definitely a bit more brusque when I comment on this page, just because there's a lot of cruft on here and I don't like it to steal the attention from good ideas. That said, I do try to be friendlier when dealing one-on-one with people. As a side note, my role as sysop has virtually nothing to do with my opinions here, so don't take my word as law or treat me as anything special, because I'm not. When it comes to most pages on the wiki, I'm just a guy, ya know? —Aichon— 05:56, 14 May 2010 (BST)

This is very simple and the wall of text above was totally unnecessary... Survivors have bazillions of very AP-efficient means to kill and/or neutralise zombies. They do not need another one. It is therefore not "fair" or "balanced" to let survivors push zambahz outside just because zambahz possess feeding drag. By that logic, survivors should have infectious ammo, as well. --WanYao 22:03, 18 May 2010 (BST)

Yeah, I'm sayin' we kill this one. It seems unnecessary, and wouldn't make the gameplay any better. Gmanyo 18:05, 26 May 2010 (BST)

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Suggestions up for voting

Increase variety of useful melee weapons moved to Suggestion talk:20100519 Increase variety of useful melee weapons