Suggestion talk:20081205 In The Dark

to J3D, a zombie attacking a survivor in a dark building will get their full accuracy back- but only for the bite attack, and only after they hit the survivor and get a grasp. they lose the bonus when their grasp slips because of a miss. not a "writhe" message. Understand now? if not, please clarify what it is you want explained.--Destor 02:38, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

So if you hit with a hand attack you can then bite (hit and miss) at your full bite accuracy as many times as you want until you attempt another hand attack and miss?--xoxo 02:42, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

you can't lose grip with bites? I was sure you could... *looks up* ah here. qoute from the zombie skills page 50% of missed hits result in loss of grasp the link- Zombie Skills but other than your misinformation, that is basically correct.--Destor 05:39, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

You might want to add this clarification onto your suggestion. I was somewhat confused after reading it, but what you wrote above clears it up pretty well. Other people might experience the same problem. --ZsL 05:42, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Tangling grasp only works with hand attacks, not bite attacks. I'm still not fully sure you understand that...--xoxo 05:43, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Does it? Are you sure? Zombie skills said Tangling Grasp" If the zombie hits with hands, its further attacks on that victim get +10% until it loses its grip. Tangled attacks on other zombies seem to be ineffective. 50% of missed hits result in loss of grasp. It also seems that only one zombie can grasp a target at a time - you may well lose your grasp if another zombie with tangling grasp makes a successful attack on your target before you do." further attacks. Not further hand attacks.

Aha. read this. User:Siddhant/Tangling Grasp Hit Calculation --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 09:23, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

so does it work or not? grasp doesn't work properly for me anyway, i often get the grasp bug so i can't test it out...--xoxo 13:52, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Currently grasp works with bite but doesn't trigger off of it, it is also still halfed in the dark(unless I'm very confused).--Karek^maps?! 19:26, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

So you attack with hands, it grasps them, THEN you bite and you have improved odds. But if you miss a bite there after does it disengage your grasp? or not? surely then wouldn't we all be better off grasping once then biting away until we ap?--xoxo 07:22, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

No. because im pretty sure that with a maxed out skill tree, hands and tangling grasp still cause more damage per ap. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 08:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

You have a +10% to hit after any successful grasp until you lose your grip, chance of losing your grip is always 50% of your miss chance(so 30% in the case of grasp biting, 20% in the case of grasp clawing). Grasp bites aren't worth it, lower average to hit is significant in this case.--Karek^maps?! 02:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

InTheDark

Timestamp:	Destor 20:45, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
Type:	Skill
Scope:	Zombie Hunters and Zombies in the dark
Description:	A new skill, one for Zombies and Survivors. For Zombies, they would get a skill that gives them their full accuracy in the dark, but only after they land a successful hit with tangling grasp, which it would be a sub-skill of. It would also not give them the +10 they normally get from tangling grasp. This would only work until they lose their grip, not if the survivor writhes. Now, onto survivors. they would have a level 10 Zombie Hunter skill, that does the same thing as the zombie skill but only works until it misses, and it would only give full accuracy to the weapon the survivor used, as opposed to the zombie skill which works for both bite and claws. This would work not only from an RP standpoint, but it would also increase the difficulty, by nerfing one of the good hiding spots, dark buildings, and thus make the game more fun and challenging. Also note that this would only work in the dark, and it would only bring the attack up to the accuracy it would normally go to, with the skills the player has.

Discussion (InTheDark)

Sorry, but I think you're trying to say too much here and as a result it's looking like a bit of a garbled mess. Also your description of how the survivor skill works is very vague and makes very little sense. Do you mean that the survivor has to hit the zombie to know where it is and as a result, their subsequent hits get no accuracy penalty or something else entirely? -- Cheese 21:16, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

You'd be better off just suggesting that tangling grasp be buffed to allow full accuracy in a dark building after a successful hit, considering that dark buildings are not a huge portion of the game I just don't feel they warrant a new skill when an old one could be improved to solve the same problem. As for the survivor portion of the idea.. you seem to be limiting it to guns. The other zombie hunter skill works for melee and guns, why not this one? - User:Whitehouse 21:30, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

There, I have clarified it, and also changed it a little, thanks to your suggestions. I will remember to make my next one clearer. Anyway, the entire point of this is that the zombie got smarter. And besides don't you think that it might be too much for tangling grasp to give another bonus? (not that it gives much anyway..hehe.) --Destor 22:55, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I like where this is going. There have been numerous calls to allow TG to give full hit chances in dark buildings, and this is a good idea. And it's balanced for both sides. No, it's not really a workable idea yet, but it doesn't suck like those above are saying. --WanYao 00:39, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

So tell me, then. What would you suggest to make it better? I know that this was just a raw idea spat out of my head, but I cannot really think of something else to put in it. So, a chance to hit instead of all the time? I thought of that but then realized that for Zombies it is a 25% chance anyway, and for Humans it is a 32% chance at best(rounded down), and a 20% chance at the worst (actually used) weapon. And, that is only for maxed-out weapon skills! so yeah, if you can think of something, I will add it if it's good. --Destor 04:36, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Not all skills are required to be crossover. According to the Zombie Survival Guide (and other sources) zombies are superior night combatants because they are less visually oriented then survivors. It is not easy to swing or fire a weapon accurately in the dark, not to mention the fear effect both the zombies AND the dark would have (canonically). For simplicity of UD, I would suggest this ONLY apply to zombies and ONLY apply to bites. Once they can get the Tangling Grasp (at the normal darkness penalties), subsequent bite attacks are at full strength. Why? because if the zombie is swinging his hands, he has the same darkness limitation a survivor would, but if he's physically grappling the survivor, his mouth isn't that far from the survivor (relatively speaking). The other reason for bite only is that bite attacks are weaker to hit then claws. A maxed out zombie has a near 60% chance with claws while bite is maxed at 44%. It would be more acceptable.--Pesatyel 05:51, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

As Pesatyel because anything that helps and encourages zombies to chew their food gets my thumbs up ;) --Honestmistake 14:27, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah... because if there's anything the survivors need right now, it's yet another zombie buff. --Matson Jade 00:02, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I want your insight... do you think that, if I change it to zomibe only bite only, I would lose more votes from unbalanced than I would gain from not overpowered? That is really the crucial question before I try and put it up for voting. It is actually kinda sad that it is more important to win votes than to make it good... well, I'll put up what I think is the best out of all the revisions. --Destor 23:00, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Always go for making it good rather than popular. Judging by how many "peer rejecteds" have ended up in the game it would seem that Kevan reads both anyway! --Honestmistake 11:04, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

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I don't dislike the concept, but by the same logic (and this would only affect instances of real-time combat) I would think that a survivor character in tangling grasp would have the same awareness of its opponents position and should also receive a bonus. --mvario 19:30, 9 December 2008 (UTC)