Suggestions/22nd-Oct-2006

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Closed Suggestions

  1. These suggestions are now closed. No more voting or editing is to be done to them.
  2. Suggestions with a rational Vote tally of 2/3 Keeps over total of Keeps, Kills, and Spams will be moved to the Peer Reviewed Suggestions page by a moderator, unless the original author has re-suggested the Suggestion.
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Advanced Search and Advanced Rage

Timestamp: ShadowScope 03:14, 22 October 2006 (BST)
Type: Way to Spend Extra XP
Scope: Suriviors/Zombies
Description: I have tried to contact Karloth vois on his wiki page, and this suggestion is based on his suggestion on the discussion page. It was a good suggestion, but it never got sent here, so here we go. I hope this is a good idea.

What I propose is 2 new skills, Advanced Searching (Suriviors) and Experience Rage (Zombies). Advanced Searching is a Zombie Hunter Skill (level 10 or higher), while Experience Rage is a Human Hunter Skill (level 10 or higher). Both skills are 100 XP each.

Advanced Search: For a Surivior, when you are in a non-Mall building, you can click on a button called "Advanced Search". When you click on this button, you spend 100 XP and 1 AP to have your next (and only next) search odds be boosted by 5%. (Example: Surivior is in a PD. He uses Advanced Searching, and then finds a pistol clip.)

What this means? (This is taken from Karloth's justification)

  1. 100XP can be spent per search. It increases that one search odds of being successful by a total of 5%.
  2. This results in an average of merely one in twenty searches being affected, for a total cost of 2000XP.
  3. Even ridiculously maxed out survivors (ie ~5000 spare XP) could only use this for one full day's searching, giving 2.5 less "you search and find nothing" results.
  4. Cannot be used in malls

Advanced Rage: For a Zombie, when you are outside the barricades, you can click on the Advanced Rage button to spend 100 XP and 1 AP to have your next (and only next) accuracy for hitting barricades with your Claw Attack by 5%. (Example: Zombie is outside a PD. He uses the Advanced Rage, and takes down the barricade by one level.)

What this means?

  1. 100XP can be spent per barricade attack, and only makes that one attack be succesful by 5%.
  2. An average of merely one in twenty barricade attacks will be affected, for a total of 2000 XP.
  3. Zombies with lots of stored XP (ie ~5000 spare XP) can only use this for one full day's of barricade smashing.

Both these skills help out the Suriviors and Zombies, giving them both powers, but there is a price. They need 100XP to use either skill, and quickly, their spare XP will be depelted (the point of this skill, to give old players a use for their XP). You cannot drop into negative XP, if you click on Advanced Search and Advanced Rage and have less than 100 XP, you get a message saying you do not have enough XP to afford an attack, and do not lose an AP for it.

This suggestion helps out both suriviors and zombies, giving them beniefts that cancel each other out, and encourges more zombie-versus-human attacks (so you can gain XP to use these more powerful Search and Rage actions). I hope this would be a fun suggestion.

Keep Votes
For Votes here
Kill Votes

  1. People are not going to like losing XP. AP they don't care about but XP is a different story. --Axe Hack 03:38, 22 October 2006 (BST)
    • You misunderstand. They are not losing their XP involuntarily. They basically can spend XP to gain a bonus. This gives players a way to spend extra XP, and a reason for maxed out characters to contiune to gain XP, so they can get to use this bonus.--ShadowScope 03:47, 22 October 2006 (BST)
      • On that re...I give this a Kill because each items have a different chance of finding, thus one item may be 1% to find giving a total of 6% of being found with this skill, and another item may have a 25% chance of being found, giving it a total of 30% chance of being found with this skill. --Axe Hack 04:05, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  2. Kill - Too weak. 100XP for only 5% more? Try making it so that you have a 100% chance to find an item of your choosing, and we'll talk.--J Muller 04:19, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  3. 5% DOES seem a tad too low. I wouldn't do more than 10% though (7/8%?). And Axe Hack, I think you misinterpret how it would work. In a Hospital, you have a 21% chance of finding something (15% FAK, 6% newspaper). This would increase it to a 26% chance, but the 5% would be SPLIT between the two (18% FAK and 8% newspaper, for example). Of course *I* may misunderstand searching, but as I understand it, that's how it would work.--Pesatyel 05:03, 22 October 2006 (BST)
    • I think Pesatyel's understanding of how search odds would work is correct, and I accept it. It's better that it is underpowered rather than overpowered, it means that it can be fixed. I'm wondering if 10% increase search odds would be fine. I also notice there is no debate on the Advanced Rage, but I guess it is okay. Should we just leave it at 5%?--ShadowScope 14:00, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  4. Kill 100xp for a mere 5% does seem a bit low. --Jon Pyre 07:44, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  5. Kill - As others, 5% is fine for me but the XP cost is too high.--Mr yawn Scotland flag.JPG 08:17, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  6. (Kill)2 - worthless to the point of retardation--Gage 08:23, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  7. Kill - Very weak = useless. -- Nob666 13:50, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  8. Kill - Too costly. There is also a problem that no one seems to consider: the fact that zombies can't get XP anywhere near as quickly as survivors. --Reaper with no name 17:50, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  9. Costco - Too costly. --Officer Johnieo 21:34, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  10. as above --Funt Solo 08:36, 23 October 2006 (BST)
  11. Kill - Am I the only person that doesn't care about all that extra, unspendable XP? Aside from being tired of suggestions like this, this is pretty worthless anyway. --Rgon 20:23, 23 October 2006 (BST)
  12. Kill - For the reasons above. --LazerZero 23:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Spam/Dupe Votes

  1. Spam - What is this? 100xp for 5%? Balanced? I think not. Personally I have about 800xp saved up- so that would get me nothing most likely if its 1 in 20. I know some people have 2000+xp but its a waste of saved xp to blow it on this. --MarieThe Grove 09:41, 22 October 2006 (BST)
    • Would you accept then, 100 XP being spent for a 10% increase in searchc odds?--ShadowScope 14:00, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  2. Spam XP is experience, it's a measure of how knowledgable and skilled your character is. At least the old headshot-removes-xp could be justifiable by saying it shot apart their brain. This, however, is utterly bereft of any redeeming features. The search odds are too weak, and you'd still get the newspapers as much as before, you'd just get less "you find nothing"s. As for the rage part, it's similarly underpowered. No thanks. --BBM 17:41, 22 October 2006 (BST)

Zombie Walk

Timestamp: Jon Pyre 08:23, 22 October 2006 (BST)
Type: Skill
Scope: Zombie
Description: The classic zombie walk. Arms outstretched, moaning, entirely without fatigue. Since zombies tend to start off with some AP disadvantages at early levels like two AP movement costs and being frequently headshot it seems fair to have a few AP saving skills for them to access later in the game.

Zombie Walk would be a subskill of Lurching Gait allowing the zombie to move greater distances for less AP, but over a longer period of time. The player would have a new line for the Zombie Walk on their interface. It'd say:

Lurch [(direction)] [(number)] spaces.

"Direction" would be a drop down menu with the options n, e, s, w, ne, se, sw, nw. Number would be a text box that'd accept any number one through ten. So a zombie could select to lurch ne 5 spaces, or south 2 spaces, or any combination of those.

Lurching devotes half as many AP as you entered for "number" to moving in that direction. Instead of having the AP point added to your counter you'd automatically move in the selected direction two spaces. Essentially the skill lets you plan ahead and save a few AP by moving two spaces every half hour, instead of moving dozens of spaces all at once later for 1AP a space. In the case of odd numbers it'd round up an AP. Since the skill only lets you enter up to 10 spaces you could only devote a maximum of 5AP at a time. If the zombie starts lurching and performs any other action it'd interrupts the lurch, and the AP they'd spend initiated the lurch would be wasted. It's the type of action you'd only perform if you intend to be away for several hours. Likewise if the zombie was killed or revived that'd also interrupt the lurch.

This would let zombies move 2 spaces per AP, but it's balanced by the fact that when performed in any populated neighborhood it's likely to get killed before moving too far. It's also balanced by the fact it'll take an hour just to move four spaces! It's thematically appropriate and it seems only fair that if zombies have a walking penalty placed on them at the start that they get something to make up for it at higher levels. I play both sides and looking at this from the survivor point of view I believe it is is balanced. Zombies in film and cinema tend to walk slowly but without needing rest breaks. The flavor works and giving zombies a bit of strategy and planning-ahead is just what they need to make their gameplay more interesting. It seems reasonable that if an AP penalty early on isn't unbalancing and AP saving skill later on would be equally fair.

Keep Votes

  1. Author vote To save time when autospamming please avoid reading the suggestion. Remember, a spam vote is a great way of silencing any debate and preventing further voting so you should certainly use that if you dislike a suggestion. Why merely express your disatisfaction with a suggestion with a kill vote when you can strong kill it with a spam vote to obliterate it from the universe? Please, do abuse a voting category designed to remove vandalism from the page. Okay, okay, I'm a little bitter. I'll go lie down. I am looking forward though to the regular as clockwork votes saying this is overpowered and that I'm totally clueless as to what balance is. Despite the fact that I probably have more suggestions implemented and in peer reviewed than everyone who's going to vote on this combined. But what do I know, right? --Jon Pyre 08:27, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  2. Keep But, it's like, a good idea. Saves you AP but you might mosey past a lone survivor.. them's the breaks! Zombies have to spend extra AP walking in and out of buildings just to see whose home anyway. Bastards. MrAushvitz Canadianflag-sm.jpg 20:18, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  3. I don't like this particular suggestion, but it gets a Keep from me because: don't tell Pyre to take a break. He's written some of the best suggestions in Peer Review and if I recall correctly at least two of his suggestions have actually been implemented. Keep doing your good work, Jon. Rheingold 22:56, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  4. I like this suggestion. Jon's a good suggestor, and no one has the right to offer Jon "advice". Well, okay you do, but Jon knows it all. Heck, he probably came up with a good deal of it. How long have you been here Jon? Anything you say to him about looking at previous suggestions? He's probably said to other people. Jon knows what he's doing with suggestions. Not one of Jon's suggestions has been obscenely overpowered. Sometimes I haven't liked them, but their always decently thought out. Just saying. Oh, and to people saying this makes zombies move "fast" or something, how exactly is one square every half hour "fast"? Sure, it takes less AP overall, but when was the last time you saw a person getting away from zombies easily long-term. Short-term, yeah, but not in the long-run. Not while zombies can get to wherever people run to. Heck, zombies should probably get more AP to represent how tireless they are. Not much more, as that would completely kill the game, but some. I'll stop ranting now. --Pinpoint 07:34, 23 October 2006 (BST)

Kill Votes

  1. Strong Kill - Super fast lurching zombies who are faster than survivors? Plain overpowered. -- Nob666 13:46, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  2. Kill - Thanks for trying, but AP represents time. --Burgan Black.png 15:49, 22 October 2006 (BST)
    • Re: WRONG! AP DOES NOT DOES NOT DOES NOT represent time! don't think it does, 'cause it DOES NOT! no no no no no no wrong wrong wrong! maybe you could read the rules before you go killing other peoples suggestions? jeez...
      Note - unsigned edit struck. --Funt Solo 08:37, 23 October 2006 (BST)
  3. I have the same dislike of automatic movements as the others. Also, this would mean a zombie character who came back to check every couple of hours could move at half the AP cost of a survivor overall, which doesn't seem right for zombies. --ExplodingFerret 10:57, 25 October 2006 (BST)
  4. Kill --Because as someone whose played as a noob zombie before, I really don't need this. But don't be discouraged by folks who don't properly examine their votes, are quick to vote spam, or tend to be a bit...asinine in their comments. Try suggesting your ideas on the Talk pages, first! --MorthBabid 20:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Spam/Dupe Votes

  1. Predicted Spam - Your other teleportation suggestion, Fascinated Lurch only got spaminated 3 days ago and now you're trying it again? In what universe do the zombies move faster than the survivors? As for your tirade - if the system is annoying you that much maybe you should take a few days off from it. Nobody can make great suggestions at the rate of one per day - you're setting your sights too high and getting disappointed as a result. Seriously. Take a break. --Funt Solo 09:18, 22 October 2006 (BST)
    • Re Actually in no universe do zombies move faster than survivors. Zombies are fictional. And you know what? Good advice. I will take a break. --Jon Pyre 09:26, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  2. Predicted Spam Another bit of helpful advice, look at the rejected sugestions and see why they were rejected. Certain trends will reveal themselves, some of which will aply to this suggestion as well. The number 1. trend that aplies- No Automatic movements, as I beleive the Lurch is intended to be. Conndrakamod T CFT 09:35, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  3. Ordinary Spam - Whats with this predicted spam stuff? :?) This is a bit strange really you would be 'moving' while logged out? Weird... --MarieThe Grove 09:46, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  4. Spam - It's like I never took a break from UD. What did I tell you people about stuff like this six months ago? Hmm? Automatic anything while you're away from the controls is bad.Bentley Foss 17:11, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  5. Auto-whatever is a no-no. --Axe Hack 18:19, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  6. Pre-Destined Spam - Auto movements that also basically break core concepts of the game are not good. --Officer Johnieo 19:26, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  7. Spam - Auto-movement makes children cry.--Mr yawn Scotland flag.JPG 19:58, 22 October 2006 (BST)

Starting Equipment 1.1

Timestamp: 11:23, 22 October 2006 (BST)
Type: Balance change
Scope: Starting Characters
Description: The equipment and skills given out to starting characters are not balanced. A cop gets a loaded pistol and two clips, equipment that has a direct synergy with their starting skill (Basic Firearms Training). They're immediately set to gain XP. Compare that to the lowly consumer - with Shopping (a skill they can only use in Malls - which are EHB most of the time) and the unrelated Mobile Phone (a comms device over-shadowed now by the radio), they're going to struggle in the early game. The medic looks good, with a loaded pistol, a spare clip, a FAK and First Aid, but the First Aid skill is actually an impedement to them gaining XP, as it heals the wounded too quickly. All round great flavour, but terrible balance.

It's not as simple, of course, as "everyone should start out with the same amount of items", so an investigation was carried out and applied the following (simple) points system to a starting character's skill and items:

Item Points System:

  • Temporary item: 1
  • Permanent item: 2

Skill Points System

  • synergy with item: +1
  • XP impedement: -1
  • XP incentive: +1
  • It's Free Running: +2

Here's what that looks like under the current system:

class skill item1 item2 item3 item4 item5 Index
Cop Basic Firearms Training Pistol [6 bullets] Flak Jacket ~ ~ 7
Points: 2 2 1 2 ~ ~
Firefighter Axe Proficiency Fire Axe ~ ~ ~ ~ 4
Points: 2 2 ~ ~ ~ ~
Consumer Shopping Mobile Phone ~ ~ ~ ~ 2
Points: 0 2 ~ ~ ~ ~
Private Basic Firearms Training Pistol [6 bullets] Pistol Clip Pistol Clip ~ 7
Points: 2 2 1 1 1 ~
Medic First Aid FAK Pistol [6 bullets] Pistol Clip ~ 5
Points: 0 1 2 1 1 ~
Scout Free Running Flare Gun ~ ~ ~ ~ 3
Points: 2 1 ~ ~ ~ ~
Doctor First Aid FAK FAK ~ ~ ~ 2
Points: 0 1 1 ~ ~ ~
NecroTech Assistant NecroTech Employment DNA Extractor ~ ~ ~ ~ 4
Points: 2 2 ~ ~ ~ ~
Corpse Vigour Mortis [claws] [teeth] ~ ~ ~ 6
Points: 2 2 2 ~ ~ ~


The following table shows the changes to the system that are being requested by this suggestion. Changes are shown in blue, but three other suggestions (Doctor change, Binoculars for New Scouts & Fire Fighters Start With Radio) have been referenced, and the changes from those are shown in red:

class skill item1 item2 item3 item4 item5 Index
Cop Basic Firearms Training Pistol [6 bullets] Flak Jacket ~ ~ 7
Points: 2 2 1 2 ~ ~
Firefighter Axe Proficiency Fire Axe Radio Flare Gun ~ ~ 7
Points: 2 2 2 1 ~ ~
Consumer Shopping Mobile Phone Crowbar Fuel Can Spray Can ~ 7
Points: 1 2 2 1 1 ~
Private Basic Firearms Training Pistol [6 bullets] Pistol Clip Pistol Clip ~ 7
Points: 2 2 1 1 1 ~
Medic First Aid FAK Pistol [6 bullets] Pistol Clip Knife 7
Points: 0 1 2 1 1 2
Scout Free Running Flare Gun Binoculars Knife ~ ~ 7
Points: 2 1 2 2 ~ ~
Doctor Diagnosis FAK FAK Knife [random]
book or wine		 ~ 7
Points: 2 1 1 2 [1] ~
NecroTech Assistant NecroTech Employment DNA Extractor NT Syringe GPS FAK ~ 7
Points: 2 2 1 1 1 ~
Corpse Vigour Mortis [claws] [teeth] [random]
bat or pipe		 ~ ~ 7
Points: 2 2 2 1 ~ ~

Justification:

  • Overall: An attempt to provide every starting character with a way to gain XP, and to make each choice seem like a fair one to a starting player.
  • Cop & Private: no change - they're good as is.
  • Fire Fighter - the addition of a flare gun for flavour, the radio replaces the wirecutters (useless) as per the referenced suggestion.
  • Consumer - the addition of the crowbar gives the consumer some chance to get into a Mall and use their Shopping skill. Other one-shot flavour items indicate that the consumer is a natural scavenger - the fuel can lets them do something useful, and the spray can gives them a way of gaining a small amount of XP even if they are stuck outside. It's still quite a crap starting class - this is just trying to show them some love.
  • Medic - the knife (medical-stylee) provides the medic with a way of gaining XP, and adds to the sense of this character being a Jack-of-all-trades-but-master-of-none with their shooty/healy/stabby equipment.
  • Scout - binoculars as per the Peer Reviewed suggestion and the addition of a knife to provide a way of gaining XP.
  • Doctor - Diagnosis as per the Peer Reviewed suggestion, a medical-stylee knife (bone-saw!) from the operating theatre and a random flavour item for fun - this doctor was either studying or on their way to a dinner party.
  • NT assistant - the syringe gives them an incentive to work towards the science skills, the GPS is a nice bit of science-flavour and the FAK to protect them from infection.
  • Corpse - by giving the corpse a bat or a pipe, if they get combat-revived, they at least have something to hit with. Even though it's a permanent item, it's not really much use to a zombie, so it's been given only 1 point.

Credits:

Keep Votes

  1. Keep - Balances starting items for different classes and item choices fit. Nice. -- Nob666 13:41, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  2. As above --Funt Solo 14:32, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  3. Keep - Looks good. --ALIENwolve 15:53, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  4. Keep - Nicely thought out. Nice presenation. The 1 or 2 tweaks I see don't warrant a kill vote.User:Ignatz 11:08 (EST)22. October 2006
  5. Keep Well presented, sensible idea. --BBM 17:47, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  6. Keep - I'm glad someone had the time to get it up. A great joint effort. -- Andrew McM W! 17:48, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  7. Keep - Excellent! I hope we'll be seeing some non-Cop, Firefighter or Private people soon, once this is in. Also, Reaper with no name- I agree on the zerging, but it seems to me that so many excellent, well-thought-out suggestions because someone will zerg. My thinking is, who cares, let Kevan's system take them out and let the rest of us enjoy it.Leeksoup 18:10, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  8. Keep - Well balanced. I like it. --GhostStalker 18:33, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  9. Funny...you missed the Wirecutter for the current system...I think those Wirecutters have a place in a Firefighter's inventory as a starting item....Or are you taking those out and replacing them? --Axe Hack 18:17, 22 October 2006 (BST)
    Re - I'd argue that wirecutters are currently useless, so don't have a place in anyone's inventory. Might as well give them a newspaper. And yes, it looks like I accidentally missed those out for the "current" table. My bad. --Funt Solo 18:30, 22 October 2006 (BST)
    Re - On behalf of that Re, you got your Keep. I forgot that the Wirecutters were useless peice of junk. --Axe Hack 18:43, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  10. Yes, yes, yes, and yes! This has been in the works for a while, and I hope Kevan puts it in the game quickly. -Mark 19:29, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  11. hesitant keep - I still don't like the idea of buffing firefighters (as they don't need it, since they're already considered by many to be the best class due to their combat abilities being better than that of a cop or private) or giving all starting zombies weapons (it's a bit of a far-fetched assumption that all corpse class zombies had a weapon on them at the time of death), but those things aren't enough to warrant a kill from me. --Reaper with no name 19:43, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  12. Keep - What other people said.--Mr yawn Scotland flag.JPG 20:00, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  13. Keep - Well thought out, and I hope this will be implemented soon. --Winnan 20:12, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  14. Savagely Good! Savage. MrAushvitz Canadianflag-sm.jpg 20:20, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  15. Keeperfic! - So good I made up a word! --Officer Johnieo 21:32, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  16. Was wondering when this was finally going to get here - Though also a little worried about the spray can for consumers. --Gene Splicer 21:35, 22 October 2006 (BST)
    Re - Yes, if the voting continues to go well enough to get this into PR, I'll be sure to add a strong note about the spray can worries of both Kill and Keep voters. It's a key point. --Funt Solo 21:39, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  17. Zombies should probably have a % chance (a high one) of starting with a pipe/bat rather than actually starting with one. And Diagnosis is probably going to be a tough sell since THAT has been in Peer Review for, like ever. And zerging with spray cans? Why is that even an issue?--Pesatyel 22:05, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  18. Nicely balanced now. I don't think that the zombie weapons are far-fetched, as neither a bat nor a pipe are conventional weapons and could plausibly have been seized to defend yourself, or whatever. Giving a % chance for them is unfair to those whom the random number generator frowns upon, so I'd leave as is. -- Catriona McM 22:49, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  19. Wow. - Now that's a good idea!--Labine50 MHG|MalTel 01:34, 23 October 2006 (BST)
  20. Keep-on-a-keepstick- One of the better suggestions of our age.--Grigori 02:36, 23 October 2006 (BST)
  21. Keep Restoration of ballance for starting Charachters...Good. Damn fine presentation as well. Conndrakamod T CFT 03:26, 23 October 2006 (BST)
  22. For the love of all that is awesome, YES! Agent Heroic 08:04, 23 October 2006 (BST)
  23. Keep although I would like a couple changes: 1-I agree that the spray can should probably not be given as a starting item. 2-Syringes for scientists. I don't like giving new players an items they are unable to use at all. 3-Firefighters really don't need a buff, since they are already one of, if not the, strongest class for starting players. That's pretty minor, since this isn't all that much of a buff anyway. Generally though I like it. It is a lot more balanced that it is currently. --Rgon 20:42, 23 October 2006 (BST)
    Re - I was strongly against the syringe for exactly the same reasons - but I was persuaded by the other contributers that it gave the starting player a strong motive to work towards climbing the science skill tree. --Funt Solo 22:20, 23 October 2006 (BST)
  24. the adjustments seem reasonable. --ExplodingFerret 11:05, 25 October 2006 (BST)
  25. Keep - Consumers currently suck so hopefully this works out--Zombie Spray 06:24, 28 October 2006 (BST)
  26. Keep - Well planned, and justified! A lot of updates have been made to the game items, but our newbie classes have largely gone untouched with them. This seems logical for the most part. --MorthBabid 20:23, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
  27. Keep - Very clearly thought out, well presented, and highly nessesary. I completely agree with you. --Robotron947 19:51, 4 November 2006 (CST)

Kill Votes

Just needs a couple of fixes - Even as it is, this almost warrants a keep from me. There are only 3 slight problems: 1) The firefighter class is already considered better than the Cop or Private classes. Why? Because the combination of a fire axe and axe proficiency is better than a pistol, ammo, and basic firearms training. If you want to give them a flare gun, I guess I could let that slide, but not a radio. They really don't need a buff in the first place. 2) The giving-weapons-to-zombies thing has a good point to it (just in case they do get revived), but most players who start out as zombies aren't going to want to become survivors (at least not for a while). Plus, it's a bit hard to believe that every zombie rising from the graveyard (or wherever it is new zombies come from) is going to have a lead pipe or something on them. 3) Don't give the survivors crowbars. I see where you're coming from, but it's way too easy for zergers, zombie spies, etc to abuse and use this to grief survivors. Give them a baseball bat or something like you were going to do with the zombies. It would be better for their XP gathering anyway, which would in turn help them get free running quicker and make their starting skill closer to being useful. --Reaper with no name 18:05, 22 October 2006 (BST)
Re - I'm going to quote Gene Splicer on the crowbar-zerging non-issue: "I like the crowbar for consumers, there's no PK zerging risk as a new Fireman still has better barricade smashing abilities, and it makes great RP." If your other two points are enough for a Kill vote, there's not much I can do about that. --Funt Solo 18:30, 22 October 2006 (BST)
Re - On that note, changing my vote. Forgot that little detail. --Reaper with no name 19:43, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  1. Take the spray can out of the consumer and I'll vote keep.--Thari TжFedCom is BFI! 19:29, 22 October 2006 (BST)
    Re - Tell me why and I'll consider it. ;) --Funt Solo 19:31, 22 October 2006 (BST)
    Simple, because if a character starts with a free spray can, building your own ZERG PROPAGANDA ARMY ist's piece of cake if your way is hazy.--Thari TжFedCom is BFI! 19:43, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  2. So many good suggestions get not implemeneted because of zergers. If we forget this fact plainly, then we will ruin the game. It is easy to cheat. Let not make it easier. (Oh, and I'm in agreement with Thari's ZERG PROPAGANA ARMY that will easily result from this suggestion. But there are other fears too...Reaper's arguments that it is overpowering to buff Firemen as well). Anything that will help newbies will help cheaters.--ShadowScope 20:25, 22 October 2006 (BST)
    Re - On the one hand I'm of the opinion that zerg-fears, considering the IP-limit, aren't that well-founded. On the other hand, if this does make it to PR, I'll make sure and add a note about the concerns over spray can zerging. --Funt Solo 20:34, 22 October 2006 (BST)
    Re'-And that is the problem. It is easy to bypass the IP-Limit with a Proxy. Many people can do it. I can do it. So, the IP limits can be meaningless, if a person want it to be.--ShadowScope 20:42, 22 October 2006 (BST)
  3. Kill I like all the peer reviewed components, and after consideration, the suggestion is solid except for the spray can. I don't know what it's replaceable with, but my immediate concern when I saw it is the ZERG PROPAGANDA ARMY; the I.P. limit means you can spray your message at least forty times per day, assuming two AP worst case scenario to get to a taggable location and one AP to spray. And that's for those who don't use proxies. The rest of it is solid, but I'd like to see something replace the spray can. --Burgan Black.png 02:11, 23 October 2006 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes
Spam/Dupe Votes here

Extra XP for Zombies

Spaminated with 7/10 Spam votes. --Funt Solo 20:27, 22 October 2006 (BST)

Discussion moved to discussion page. --Funt Solo 21:34, 22 October 2006 (BST)

PKer Criminal Class

Mod Spaminated with 5 Spams and no non author keeps. Voters thought that PKing shouldn't be encouraged.--Gage 23:37, 22 October 2006 (BST)

Gnaw

Removed by author for daily edit 02:30, 23 October 2006 (BST) I was asked by 2 voters to remove the 2nd skill synergy bonus, fine. Origional suggest_time=MrAushvitz Canadianflag-sm.jpg 23:40, 22 October 2006 (BST)|

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