Talk:Suggestions/20th-Jan-2007

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Zerger Preventing GKing Melee Alteration

  • Comment Vote was neither signed, nor in a recognizable language. --Jon Pyre 06:40, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
    • comebnt was mde by dumass, c above-Grundo 07:11, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
      • Comment Strike-out restored. Just sign your vote instead of starting an edit war for crissakes. If you don't know how to do it just add --~~~~. Also, drink some water so you don't have as much of a hangover tomorrow. edit: Restored yet again. Sorry, no "hanging chads." Messing up the page with deliberately mistyped tags is not funny. Two dashes and four tildés, really easy. --Jon Pyre 06:56, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
        • y u kep changing my # to * ??? sory bout teh ~s, i no very compter sm4rt. -Grundo 07:11, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
          • Just keep the mispelling joke limited to your text, not to wiki code. And if you're not joking, well, apologies, and feel free to ask me for help. --Jon Pyre 07:17, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Monkeys

Timestamp: c138 RR - PKer 18:48, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Type: Flavour, humour
Scope: Everyone
Description: It'd be nice to have some animals in that zoo... so I propose adding zombified monkeys. Being agile and clever, they broke out of their enclosure immediately after the outbreak and relocated themselves amongst the other cages, but with nobody to feed them, they starved, died, and rose again...

Survivors can shoot at them, and zombies can attempt to claw at them (through the bars of the enclosure, you see, a fire axe or set of gnashing teeth is of little use). There's a 10% chance of hitting a monkey, regardless of what weapon you use, or the skills you have. If you're successful in hitting a monkey, you get 1XP, and you receive a message describing what the monkey does in response to being shot/clawed, eg. "A monkey screeches loudly and its tail falls off." Other players on that square also see the message, alerting them to a monkey-hassler. The monkeys never die.

Discussion

  • Bangs head against monitor. Repeatedly.* Not... more... stupid... animal... suggestions.... This is only slightly more sane than one that was submitted recently. First of all, these are NPCs. No NPCs in the game. Second, pretend that all of them were evacuated at the beginning. I don't want to hide in the zoo to find I was trampled by an elephant. -Mark 20:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I actually don't have a problem with certain KINDS of NPCs...just not animals. Stuck in cages, wouldn't the zombies have eaten them all by now anyway? Or, simplier, they all STARVED to death?--Pesatyel 20:34, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
If it would make you feel better, I'm not serious about this. XD --c138 RR - PKer 12:28, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I kind of like the idea... And come on, doesn't anyone else think the zoos are kind of boring without animals? These are not really NPC's either... just an interesting part of the landscape. That can throw poo at people. --Uncle Bill 21:42, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

You've hit the nail on the head yourself - any and all animals in Malton will have been either killed by gunfire for protection or for food by now. One could assume that the zombie virus only effects humans, thus negating the idea of zombie birds, monkeys, elephants et al. --Funt Solo Scotland flag.JPG 11:15, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Monkeys rise from the dead since the virus affects the portion of DNA that we share. :D --c138 RR - PKer 12:28, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Zombie elephants, giraffes, and zebras, no. But I could see monkeys as a possibility... after all, who do you think NecroTech was using for test subjects when this all started? --Uncle Bill 13:13, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Zombie giraffes would just be too badass for this game. --c138 RR - PKer 14:37, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Pickles the zombie elephant!!!!! --Sir Sonny Corleone RRF CRF DORIS Hunt! 14:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

That would be an elephOWN'd. They should totally start breeding those. --c138 RR - PKer 17:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
However adding a few animal skeletons to the building descriptions would be kinda thematic. --Jon Pyre 00:30, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
"You stumble across the corpse of a half-eaten meercat..." (I really need to visit the Malton Zoo.) --Uncle Bill 04:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
So, suggest that. Lets come up with a few examples.--Pesatyel 03:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Please see Humorous_Suggestions#Animals_in_the_game. edit:Wait!, on second thought, my assclown needs an assmonkey!--SporeSore 18:10, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Humanitarian Ethos

Timestamp: Swiers X:00 20:22, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Type: Skill
Scope: survivors over 10th level who don't want to PK for any reason.
Description: Most survivors are decent people. However, some go beyond this; they have let go of suspiscion and trust in human nature to protect them as they endevor to help other make it through the disaster around them. The work well with others, but are rather reluctant to harm any survivor.

Humanitarian Ethos is purchased as a “Zombie Hunter” skill for 150xp, as only people with experience surviving the disaster show such extreme behavior, and it does not come easily for any character class.

The skill does NOT show up in the character's profiles when viewed by others, and does NOT raise their level.

Survivors who purchase this skill are affected in several ways:

  • they see other survivors with this skill as marked in scene discriptions with a + next to their names
  • If they can see 10 or more survivors who have the +, they are able to search more efficiently, instead of watching their backs. Outside of malls, they have a +20% chance to find something under these conditions. In malls, this drops to +10%, as “bargain hunting” is already a larger factor there.
  • If they can see 10 or more survivors who have the +, they are able to barricade more efficiently, instead of watching their backs. Chances of successfully barricading (at levels where the construction skill has a chance of failure) are +20%.
  • When using a First Aid kit on another person who has the skill, they heal an extra 20% damage (6, 12, or 18 damage) because both parties are more relaxed.
  • Survivors with this skill attack other survivors only with reluctance, and thus with generally poor results. Attacks of any sort made against other survivors by characters who have this skill are only half as likely to hit. That’s not –50%, its *.50.

Humanitarian Ethos has no effect on a character's interactions with zombies, or another survivors actions towards the survivor, except as detailed above.

Discussion

Obviously, this is a re-work of Pacifism - I figured before I went ahead and tossed it out for voting, I'd see if I'd missed anything obvious that was brought up in previous discussion. I'd rather it get rejected based on opinions than fixable mistakes, after all. The most novel change is the bit about it not showing up in your profile or raising your level; this is an attempt to reduce its potential as a "bulls eye" on folks who take it.--Swiers X:00 20:22, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Seems a bit overpowered. Maybe reduce the search bonus a bit. GET RID OF THE BARRICADE BONUS. And it still doesn't really cover PKers specifically targeting these people KNOWING they can't fight back as easily.--Pesatyel 20:32, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

This is spam. --Funt Solo Scotland flag.JPG 20:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Why?--Pesatyel 20:39, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Why indeed? I wasn't aware discussions could not be (or should not be) revised. Is that an opinion (which obviously you can leave here, but "spam" is a voting term, with no clear meaning in discussion) or is it an expression of some board policy I missed? In either case, the fact that somebody else replied before you already, to a notion not covered in the original pacifism discussion, seems to counter your claim that the discussion is not useful. --Swiers X:00 20:44, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
It reduces one's ability to roleplay through actions, by instead hard-coding in an irreversible ethos. It's overpowered - in that both it makes two classes of survivors, and it makes the ethos class overpowered against zombies. It actively promotes PKing by making PKers a sub-class, who will target people with ethos (knowing that they can't fight back efficiently). It relies on crowds for most of the bonus effects, making it both mall-centric and against the dos and donts. In short - it's spam. --Funt Solo Scotland flag.JPG 22:54, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification.--Pesatyel 23:59, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I see some valid points there- the changes from the original may have gone to far in those directions. Thank's for the clarification. --Swiers X:00 00:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, take away the barricades part and reduce the search bonus. Maybe 10% and 5%? Also Pesatyel I think that by making it not showing on profiles reduces the PKer threat enough. --Deras 20:51, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Death Cultists.--Pesatyel 23:59, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

This is a lot better than the previous version, and also has a better name. The only problem is that the description of what this skill does is probably a little lengthy compared to other skills on the "buy skills" page. --Uncle Bill 21:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

The bonuses would overpower survivors against zombies. There's already an incentive to not PK: it keeps allies around who will protect you from zombies. PKing is too powerful but the answer is to make PKing harder to get away with or less efficient, or to make zombies and survivors both stronger in a way that doesn't make PKers more powerful at the same time. --Jon Pyre 05:39, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I think I liked the original version better! Some of those bonuses are rather large. The trouble is, most building where that many people gather are tactical resources buildings. This is perticulary troublesome with regards to NT labs. The search bonuses will turn up a lot more syringes - 50% to a 100% more in fact. That would have a major effect and lead to a lot more combat reviving, very irritating to zombies and not much more fun for the bystanders who get pked by ex-zombies! The Mad Axeman 14:45, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

No. Just no. This means everyone who isn't a PKer becomes a UD Super-player. I mean if you're thinking of putting ALL of those buffs in, you should include a cape and leotard in the bargain. --c138 RR - PKer 17:35, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I say, ditch the bonusses entirely, and the 50% hit/damage penalty only applies when attacking people who have this skill. So you can fight back, but infighting would not work. So you are preotected against people who have this skill, and people with the skill are protected from you. In other words.. if you're not with us, you're against us. Additional option: Ability to unpurchase this skill for either 100XP OR half your XP, whichever is higher at the time. This would allow you to turn on your former allies, but at a horrific XP penalty --Gene Splicer 10:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Gene's suggestion above about attacking, but disagree with being able to unpurchase the skill for 100XP which makes abuse too easy. The cost to unpurchase should be high enough(500XP?) to prevent players from doing it casually.(opinion changed by Pesatyek's comment below re:Brain Rot)--SporeSore 18:07, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

One. Make it 100 XP. Two, keep it as you had before, and just have it increase search odds for that player (+5%, only OUTSIDE Malls), not dependant on having to deal with crowds. The other buffs are too overpowering. I hate Gene Splicer's idea of giving debuffs and having skills be unbought. I also hate having the effects be with the Surivior Hordes, I think the Surivior Hordes in this Surivior Apoc do not need too big of a buff...And, keeping a skill "covert" might, um, not fly.--ShadowScope 00:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, as I read it Gene Splicer's idea is simple. Anyone that attacks you is half chance to hit and you attacking anyone puts you at half chance to hit. Question is, would this apply to zombies too? And, yeah, the "unbuy" thing is stupid (why not for Brain Rot too?).--Pesatyel 03:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

The unbuy thing was to indicate how, in the films, even the most pally of survuivors sometimes snap and kill each other. I've also been campaigning for "Unbuy brainrot" since about a week after it came out. But ditch it if you don't like. You slightly misunderstood the main bit though... but I actually like your one better. Flat "It's hard for people to kill me, but hard for me to kill them" --Gene Splicer 13:41, 25 January 2007 (UTC) Actually... why make this a skill? Zombies are slow, and wobbly. Humans dodge and duck. Why not just halve survivor hit percentages across the board vs. humans, and increase zombie hit percentages vs. zombies? Humans dodge and duck. Zombies just run at you or stand there going "wargh". Of course they are easier to hit. --Gene Splicer 13:41, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Rephrased due to garbled nonsense: I do want an unbuy for brainrot. I think the 100(200 300 whatever)XP or half your current XP whichever is bigger unbuying for brainrot would be a damn good idea... but people do not agree with me. So skip that bit.
You slightly misunderstood... I was suggesting that if you have this skill your chance to hit and chance to be hit or halved when interacting with people who also have this skill. So PKer Vs. Pacifist or PAcifist Vs. Pker combat is unaffected, as is Pker VS PKer, but Pacifist Vs. Pacifist effectiveness is halved.
And after pondering... I think it would make more sense to turn the whole thing around. People try to avoid being killed, by hiding beind things or ducking or running into other rooms. Halve hit chances for survivor vs survivor combat across the board(rounded up to the nearest 5%) to represent this, but leave the chance to hit zombies alone as Zombies just shamble towards you going mrr, ignoring any chance of physical harm. Zombies still have such high to-hit chances vs. Survivors because humans, when attacking, always hold back a bit, to avoid injuring ourselves by overusing our bodies, to avoid leaving ourselves open to counterattack, etc. Zombies go all out, ignoring damage to muscle and tissue, not caring about exposing weakspots, as they try to get at our tasty meats. Chances for zombies to hit zombies would be left alone, because while their opponents still aren't trying to dodge them, they just don't have the same "Drive" kill their own kind (don't smell as tasty). For people who want to be career PKer, there would be a new level 10 skill called "Death Cultist". You have lost your fear of death. Your fanatacism gives you great strength against the living(you have full to-hit against survivors), but your disregard of your mortal shell has dulled you to the dangers of death(people have full to-hit against you). --Gene Splicer 16:04, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


I think I preferred it before, as Pacifism. It would be better to be rid of all or most of the search bonuses. --GrownUpSurvivor 16:26, 26 January 2007 (UTC) ...meaning that I preferred Pacifism as a Science skill (referring back to my earlier remarks about the difficulty of scientists struggling up the skills tree and a just reward, plus RP appropriate) and search boosts being perhaps FAKS and needles only(again for RP appropriateness).--GrownUpSurvivor 20:36, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

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