UDWiki talk:Administration/Sysop Archives/J3D/2008-11-04 Promotion

Well, after me and Cheese discussed things on IRC we've decided yes. We were rather split on it, but managed to come to a conclusion (this would have been much simpler and easier with a third 'crat by the way). Something to add... I wasn't exactly 100% comfortable with you and A/VB so it would be preferred if you kept it slow there. Questions anyone?--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 22:22, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

You don't need a third 'crat. You both have veto power, so if either of you are against the promotion, it's not meant to happen. It's not a vote -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 23:39 18 November 2008 (BST)

The fact that you don't even know that^ means you should not only overrule your decision with a legitimate one but should probably not have stayed in the running for 'crat in the first place. If you don't know what 'crats do you shouldn't be a 'crat.--Karek^maps?! 00:06, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Retards. He didn't say one voted yes and one voted no. He said they were split on the decision, but they obviously talked about it and decided that Yes was the best option. They are saying that if there was a third 'Crat it would be easier and they just could have voted without having to go through an arduous discussion process. Your both butthurt that you aren't doing their jobs. They don't need a 3rd crat though, it SHOULD be a long discussion process as thats the only way to make the right decision.--CyberRead240 03:37, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

It just seems that common sense would say the "3rd Crat" would be the opinions of the sysops. You don't need an actual 3rd person. --– Nubis ^NWO 09:34, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Fuck no, the problem is that they aren't doing their jobs. Kinda like when I would criticize Vantar, Vista, Boxy, and every other 'crat or sysop that I think didn't do their job since I was promoted. --Karek^maps?! 06:32, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

HAHAHAHA What a bunch of fuck ups! You have all your good sysops posting STRONGLY AGAINST this promotion and yet you decide to give it to him anyway? What a fucking joke. I love that they even posted examples and shit and the vouches are bullshit - He's a good'un from his partners in crime and yet he still fucking gets it. God, I hope Nubis gets Crat someday so Katthew and I can be sysops. -- #99 ^DCC 23:36, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I felt I'd said everything that needed to be said last time he went for the promotion. And no doubt everyone else covered the rest.--Nallan (Talk) 00:11, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Not really. I'll be sure to help reign him in should the broom or mop become too big for him to handle. :) -- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 22:35, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

You've both just proven yourselves fucking morons that don't deserve to be sysops much less 'crats. Congratulations, you've just qualified as the worst 'crats we've ever had, and Grim staged a coup.--Karek^maps?! 23:55, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I can tell you guys are all gonna get along just great!--Nallan (Talk) 00:11, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I know, because the way he was promoted makes me want to approach him with a 10' pole like I do with Conn, a user who has over time shown me that he can't be trusted to act beyond his own best interest. Funny thing is I would have supported J3D given a bit more time and involvement, and considering there are many many users I wouldn't say the same thing about. . . --Karek^maps?! 00:19, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

God damn... You're really dwelling on this aren't you? Maybe instead of wingeing, you could try and give Jed a chance or even show him some guidance on being a sysop if you think he is so unready. I mean you're not going to talk him into standing down, and you can't change the crats' decisions. I just hate to see you wasting your time on pointless endeavours.--Nallan (Talk) 00:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

See it how you will, it was a bad decision made by a person with a history of it and a 'crat that's just shown he has no idea what he's doing through his own admission. Say what you will but I'll waste my time how I see fit, and instructing a user on how to be a sysop when he's shown no interst in finding it out before he was a sysop is not what I consider a useful or constructive use of my time, quite the opposite in fact.--Karek^maps?! 00:40, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

All AHLG said is that it would've been easier and simpler to come to a conclusion with a 3rd crat. I don't see how that makes him an unfit crat. He didn't say they needed a 3rd crat. I don't see any misunderstanding of guidelines there...--Nallan (Talk) 01:02, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Karek and (to a much lesser extent) Boxy's bitterness isn't needed here, the crats were just trying to be positive, its not their fault they do things differently than you guys. Yes, I know whay Boxy said is right about the veto power. But keep in mind they got into crat with credentials that you guys and Grim don't have, community support. So keep the aggression down low guys :( Sheesh. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 02:20, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I can only laugh. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 03:30, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I'd just like to say, well done to ALHG and Cheese for making their own decision. Their crat powers, as voted by the community, should not be compromised by the beliefs of users such as Karek and Boxy. I am glad that you did what you thought was right, and did not let yourselves be bullied into a decision you did not want to make.

To boxy and Karek, I seem to remember a few of you bagging Jed out for having a "tantrum" when he didn't get promoted on his first bid. Looks like you all just made a fool of yourselves. How 'bout giving him a chance guys? Maybe your lack of accommodation for people who disagree with you is the reason why you two were not the ones making this decision? --CyberRead240 03:33, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Holy shit, even when you get your way you arseclowns whine. Where's my tantrum here, Read? Where did I bag you clowns for your tanty when you didn't get your way last time, Read? Stop making shit up to slander anyone that doesn't support J3D ( <3 <3 <3 ). Is this the way it's going to be now? Anyone disagrees with a J3D decision will get the treatment by his bum buddy brigade? -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 04:39 19 November 2008 (BST)

Your just fucking butthurt. And its mainly at Karek for his outburst, but I just take you two as one person lately.--CyberRead240 05:11, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

No substance, just bullshit -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 05:23 19 November 2008 (BST)

Oh, and just in case no one noticed, AHGL seems to have demoted himself, presumably as a result of this -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 04:53 19 November 2008 (BST)

Well I spose you guys won out... Well Box its hard not to complain in response to Karek. But for now lets go focus on yet another Bur election. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 05:08, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Lost x2, more like -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 05:23 19 November 2008 (BST)

where? screenshot or it didnt happen--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks ^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 05:19, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

hur lol D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 05:21, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

thats not a screenshot!--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks ^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 05:25, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I went one better and you STILL complain! =O D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 05:28, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Screenshot this, then -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 05:45 19 November 2008 (BST)

So if AHLG stepped down now what? Karek by default or a new election? --– Nubis ^NWO 06:03, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

We should probably give Gnome time to reconsider, but otherwise, it's yet another election -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 06:13 19 November 2008 (BST)

Oh noes, please, I'd love to get some of this community support I keep hearing about :P

That's that thing where people liking me makes my opinions and decisions automatically right right? Treat is as if it were a forceful demotion as far as replacement goes, that means a new vote due to the precedent.--Karek^maps?! 06:29, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

How about we treat it like it is... a valued and valuable member of the community hounded out by a loud arrogant ass! J3D got the balance of community support and even you can't deny that he does a lot of useful stuff on here. This decision is entirely within the pattern of behaviour shown by Gnome and Cheese before their promotion, ie: willing to be open to the opinions of others and willing to give everyone here a fair chance and it was that behaviour that got them elected to Crat in the first place. You are not likely to win the election not because you are unpopular (you are) but because you are convinced that you and you alone are right and the font of all wisdom (you are not). Actually you will probably find that it is that misguided opinion of your own 'righteousness' which hides the amount of solid decisions and good work you do. In short... J3D was promoted, deal with it with dignity instead of chucking your dummy! --Honestmistake 08:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

So basically your position is that because J3D was promoted by two sysops who seems to be willing to promote anyone he is now magically free from all of the very legitimate concerns raised in the bid that have not been addressed in any way by anyone much less the 'crats who promoted him and decided that in such a controversial bid it wasn't prudent to address why they didn't think any of these frequently voiced concerns meant anything? The fact is you wanted him promoted so you're viewing all of this as irrelevant. Gnome and Cheese fucked up royally in how they have gone about this and deserve to take flak for it lest it happen again and again and again, something which would be as likely now as it was when Vantar and Boxy were 'crats and we went through this same exact drama because of how they dealt with promotions and from which they learned.--Karek^maps?! 08:33, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

No, basically my opinion is that J3D recieved the majority of support. Some of that support was obviously biased and probably did more harm to his case than good. On the other hand he did recieve support from 2 sysops with one of the 4 who voted against saying very clearly that he was only against the promotion bid at this time and congratulating him on his good work! My vote for him came only after careful consideration of his reply to my question and with the knowledge that more level heads on the sysop team would soon overturn any blatant stoopidity from "sysop J3D". I am sure that Gnome and Cheese looked at the opinions presented and made their own mind up... thats their job and like it or not they both got the job because we voted for them... (Actually i didn't and wouldn't have voted for Cheese because I don't always trust his judgement) In this case they weighed up the simple facts that a majority of those voicing an opinion said YES including 2 Sysops out of the 6 that bothered and I am sure that the very valid concerns raised were the reasons why AHLG felt the need to note his own worries in regards to A/VB.... Your basic opinion on the other hand is that you think they should only have listened to those who agree with you and are therefore wrong to come to any conclusion but the one you wanted. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Honestmistake (talk • contribs) 11:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC).

and even you can't deny that he does a lot of useful stuff on here. - J3D's contributions are to ALiM and fucking around on Admin pages. So basically "taking his toys and going home" when someone like Cyberbob called him out on that awful template on community pages. To going around procedure and recreating a deleted page when he wasn't happy with the official answer he got about it's undeletion. So don't paint him as some martyr and folk hero. --– Nubis ^NWO 09:47, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Not painting him as a hero or a martyr and my vouch was mainly motivated by the knowledge that responsibility should do him some good, that he is obviously keen and skilled enough for the job and that any fuck ups he makes will be easily fixed by the more seasoned Sysops who have the power to oust him at the first drop of a misconduct case should he be so stupid as to throw a wobbler!--Honestmistake 11:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Bettar watch out Karek, I hear J3D's a favourite for the next bur election. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 08:40, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I herd Kareks butt is hurt. To quote boxy, "Whaaaaaaaaa"--CyberRead240 09:47, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

What you all are missing is that the Crats don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or be mean and have decided to either run away (AHLG) or just hide out until this mess blows over (Cheese). It pisses me off (and I would assume some other Sysops) that these two wanted the position yet at the first sign of any trouble run away. If you know you can't handle this you shouldn't stay in the election. There are many users that are turned down for sysop positions because they can't handle the A/VB drama. These two clearly can't handle the Promotions drama.

If you believe that AHLG was "hounded out" then you are basically confirming that he wasn't ready for the position as he can't handle any criticism of his decisions. Karek and boxy aren't wrong in being pissed about this since Cheese and AHLG have handled this very poorly by flaking out and ignoring the opinions and feelings of established sysops. --– Nubis ^NWO 09:59, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Those "established sysops" had an obvious bias. Perhaps the elected 'crats could see that.--CyberRead240 10:14, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

That is truly one of the stupidest things I have read given the circumstances. It's lovely how you can ignore all of the issues raised and actions he has taken and chalk it up to "bias". And I am one of those "established sysops" are you calling me biased? --– Nubis ^NWO 13:02, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Being negative towards someone doesn't necessarily imply bias, especially if the facts are against them. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 10:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Thats why the general consensus is that you are a trolling douchebag. "Id like to tell the cunt what I think of him" AAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA--CyberRead240 10:23, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Is that supposed to hurt my feelings? --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 10:26, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh what a kindergarten comeback. And no. You have no feelings coz u r teh 1337 trollzorz rite?--CyberRead240 10:28, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Is that supposed to be a burn? --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 10:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Epic comeback. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 09:11, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I think they aren't talking because in the very first line, the crats said "Discussion is now closed" Maybe we should all get grim soft warnings now--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks ^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 18:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Jesus Christ. We make one decision and this happens? Unlike what usually happens, both me and Gnome were brand new 'crats so it's not like we realised there was a whole "veto" thing. So rather than coming to a complete stalemate we discussed it and reached a conclusion (like we did with Hagnat's promotion, which I notice didn't generate a ton of shit afterwards). Personally I think that's the best way to go about things. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but when you start criticising the opinions of others and say they shouldn't count, just because they differ from your own or because they apparently as "experienced" as you, you've crossed the line. I can now see why some folk believe the sysops to be an exclusive clique. It's shit like this that makes it happen.
Lets have a read of that bit of text at the top shall we?:

Once the candidate satisfies these guidelines, the user is then subject to a community discussion. All users are asked to comment on the candidate in question, ask questions of the candidate, and discuss the candidate's suitability for becoming a System Operator. This is not a vote. It is instead merely a request for comments from the wiki community. This will continue for two weeks, as all users get a chance to air their opinions on the candidate.

Once the two weeks are up, the Bureaucrats will review the community discussion and make a decision based upon it. The user will be notified of the status of their request, and will be promoted should it appear that the community is willing to accept them as a System Operator.

You see that word "community"? It means the whole of the community. Not just sysops. To sit there and say that your opinion is most important is pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. We listened to the community and read every comment. Not just those of people who've been here a long time. If you can't accept that we made a decision you don't agree with, then fine, be a child. Throw your toys out the buggy and tell everyone who'll listen that we're the worst 'crats ever. Or you could stop being bitter and get over yourself.
As far as I'm concerned, we did our job. I stand by the decision. No matter how stupid some people may think it is. I think J3D will make a good sysop so give him a fucking chance.
An on a separate note, the reason I've been quiet is because I work all day on Wednesday. With no access to a computer until I get home about 5-6 o'clock. Don't accuse me of running away or going silent. Get your facts right before mouthing off. -- Cheese 18:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I absolutely agree; a portion of the reaction to this has been childish at best.--Nallan (Talk) 22:19, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Sore winners are worse than sore losers. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 23:38, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sore. I'm happy. Very happy indeed!--Nallan (Talk) 23:55, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

You know what I mean; don't be facetious. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 00:09, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Ha, no we don't buddy. You're losing your touch CF. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 09:11, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

How could you say that you didn't know about the "veto" thing? Didn't you notice that not everyone that put in for sysop got it? What exactly did you think a Crat did? Why did you think that any promotion made where a very distinct group of users had a negative opinion would go smoothly? You are lucky it is the sysops that is against him and not the goons. Think about it. You two made a decision that was clearly opposed by a specific group and you didn't even bother to address their concerns. It's like a big FUCK YOU to them. And this: Everyone is entitled to their opinions but when you start criticising the opinions of others and say they shouldn't count, just because they differ from your own or because they apparently as "experienced" as you, you've crossed the line. is one of the most retarded things you have ever said. You are saying you are entitled to your opinion unless it is criticizing someone then it crosses a line! Don't feel like you can't step down just because you are the only Crat right now, by the way. It's ok if you do.--– Nubis ^NWO 01:02, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Did you read what he said? "I think Jed would make a good Sysop". Thats the only justification he needs to give you, he is an elected 'crat. You are a sysop. He was elected to do this job. He is complaining about fucking Karek, saying that regular users opinions don't count for as much as his own does. That was crossing the line, regardless of whos arse your tongue is wriggling up at the moment, Nubis.--CyberRead240 02:07, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I like how when J3D or you guys demand more of an explanation for something it's your DIVINE RIGHT but when someone else does they should just be happy. We have every right to question his decision especially when he is making it clear that he didn't know all of his options (veto).

And I'm not one of your faggot buddies that wants to bitch back and forth so don't feel like you need to try and throw in an insult to "entice" me to return. --– Nubis ^NWO 03:04, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

So 'faggot' is not an insult to entice me to return? Your a broken record of Failures Greatest Hits, Nubis.--CyberRead240 03:31, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Because it counts for something when everyone ignores the reasons people are against him in favor of "I likes I likes!", the person here who has thrown out other peoples opinions would be him, that's why we ended up here. Everything else Cheese said there just cements my opinion that he should not be a 'crat that much more, starting from the first line where he says quite clearly he didn't know how to do his damn job. His(Cheese's) whole comment is "Don't blame me because you didn't get your way" and shows quite clearly he has no fucking clue how to follow along and doesn't understand what the problem is, maybe if he understood that it was his job to review the comments/vouches/votes other users made and to not only understand why they made them but to correctly gauge their intimacy with the user so that the first can actually count for something we wouldn't be here, however non-justified support is not a decent reason to ignore well justified opposition, much less so when a decent amount of the support came from users who vouched because they always do against people they don't dislike(i.e. they are background noise) or because they were his buddies. Basically this is a case of incompetent boobery from the promotion right on down to your(Cheese) attempt to call me out for exactly the wrong thing, You don't know what your doing and you don't even have the first clue why someone would have a problem with that.--Karek^maps?! 17:55, 20 November 2008 (UTC)