Suggestion:20070607 Anti-Zerg Syringes

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20070607 Anti-Zerg Syringes

ShadowScope 22:10, 7 June 2007 (BST)

Suggestion type
Balance Change

Suggestion scope
Syringes

Suggestion description
There are 2 actions that are not affected by the Zerg Flag, Manufacture and Reviving. It is an abuse that needs to be corrected. A zerg comes in, manufacture a syringe automatically, then use the syringe as an instant-kill weapon automatically. Boo. Let see if we can nerf zergs, because they are not playing fair and they are making us not have fun.

Here is the idea. We modify syringe manufacture to have it be from: (20 AP: Manufacture Syringe) with an automatic chance of success to (5 AP: Attempt Manufacture) with a 25% chance of success. It will basically take 4 tries to complete the manufacture, meaning it will still waste 20 AP. Plus, survivors may get lucky and manufacture syringes cheaply, which makes Manufacture semi-useful. There is the possibility that a survivor might spend more AP to create a syringe, but for the most part, it will take 20 AP per survivor, and the chances of a survivor spending more AP to create a syringe is low, about as low as the survivor manufacturing a syringe after one time, meaning it all balances out at the end.

Same thing with actual Revive. It will be modified from 10 AP: Revive to be 2 AP (Attempt a Revive), with a 20% Chance of Success. If you fail the Revive, you will not lose the syringe, just the 2 AP. It will take 5 times to complete the Revive, meaning it will still waste 10 AP total. Plus, survivors may get lucky and revive more zombies in a revive queue. However, there is also the possibility a survivor may spend more AP to revive a person. It will all balance out with the RNG, and in the long run, it will still cost 10 AP to revive someone, as normal.

When the anti-zerg mechanisms kick in, the chance to Manufacture drops from 25% to 0% and the chance to revive drop from 20% to 0%. Therefore, zergers will be penalized, not only in searching and attacking, but also in manufacturing and reviving, thereby stopping zergers in their tracks.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Keep - Not really because of the zerging thing, but because making syringes should never be a sure process. And you can expect a zombie to stand still while you stab it with a syringe no more than you should expect it to do so when you stab it with a knife. It may cost a lot (10 AP + an AP-costly item), but reviving currently is insta-kill. That's like, bad. -- Monstah 22:21, 7 June 2007 (BST)
2. Keep Although I don't think that there it is a real problem with Zerging, I would love to see something coming in that stops zombie players moaning on and on and on about how humans have a 100% accurate Instant kill weopon. --Seventythree 22:24, 7 June 2007 (BST)
3. Axe Hack distributes signs to everyone that says, "Down with zerges!", "Say no to zerges!" "Burn all zerges!", and "The Zerge hunt has begun!" --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 22:44, 7 June 2007 (BST) By the way...all this just applies to zergers, right? This suggestion doesn't say... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 22:46, 7 June 2007 (BST)

   This applies to all players, so that when the game detects a zerg, then the 0% penalty will be placed into being. The reason the normal percentages apply to all players is so that the zerg does not learn that he has been detected, thereby keeping the zerg detection system a secret.--ShadowScope 23:01, 7 June 2007 (BST)

4. Keep - i agree with concerns that kill voters do, about next to needlessness of syringe manufacture, however this suggestion is only about "derandomising" these actions, the avarage AP spending isn't changed! (although it makes possible to complete more revives per day with good luck) --Duke Garland_T^{LCD SSZ} 07:05, 8 June 2007 (BST)

Kill Votes

1. Kill - Nice sentiment, but it would be much simpler to just get rid of syringe manufacture, and replace it with something more useful. Searching is already affected by the zerg flags, and just spending 5 AP searching in a powered NT has a better chance of success than 25%; the only use for manufacture would thus be the absurdly rare (and unrealistic) instance where you want to set up a generator in a ransacked NT and make syringes. --Seb_Wiers Imagine 23:43, 7 June 2007 (BST)
2. Kill I'd say a zerger being forced to use syringe manufacture (0.05 syringes per AP) is punishment enough if it's that much less probable than searching an NT building (about 0.15 syringes per AP). All this does is nerf the few uses of syringe manufacture (i.e., the ability to go into 19 AP debt before a vacation, the guaranteed receipt of a syringe, etc.) by making it a de facto less efficient search.--Magentaine 23:55, 7 June 2007 (BST)
3. kill Or you could just say that Manufacture has a 100% succes rate, that drops to 0 when the zerg flag activates. However, I'll once again claim that zergers main damage to the game lies in their potential existence, and peoples reactions to them, rather than any actual actions taken. - BzAli 23:59, 7 June 2007 (BST)

   If this happens, the zerg knows he is zerging, and this is something I desire would not be revealed. If it does, then the zerger knows how to bypass it...which is not good.--ShadowScope 06:57, 8 June 2007 (BST)

4. Kill I'm horrible at probability, and even I know that 25% four times with a 5 AP cost is not the same thing as 100% once with a 20 AP cost.--Bluish wolf 00:41, 8 June 2007 (BST)
5. Kill - As above. BzAli's idea is better. --Sonofagun18 05:35, 8 June 2007 (BST)
6. Kill - Its currently more efficient to search a powered NT building than use the guaranteed 20AP-using syringe manufacture button, as Magentaine says (the figure for searching is actually 0.124 syringes per AP, or 1/8 chance). So survivors hardly have a need for using it anyway. Combat Revives (which seem to be your main gripe about this 'zerging technique') is a really poor tactic anyway. The only time a CR should be considered is when an NT building is heavily under siege. At all other times is is counterproductive due to the opportunities to smash barricades from inside (now more efficient than outside), zombie spy, PK, GK and RK. armareum 06:41, 8 June 2007 (BST)

   I wonder of just taking out Manufacture and just focus on changing the Revive mechanics. While Combat Reviving is one possible way of zerging, other ways of zerging would be having Revive Accounts that come and revive other zerg accounts.--ShadowScope 06:57, 8 June 2007 (BST)

   Maybe your suggestion should just be to nerf syringes for zergers, just like FAKs currently are. I do agree that a zerg account to constantly create a zombie spy/griefer is a problem sometimes seen (or at least suspected). Applying the same rules to syringes is the most simple way of achieving that. armareum 07:14, 8 June 2007 (BST)

7. Kill - You know? I've never actually seen a group of zergers yet. I don't doubt there are some in the game, but I think people are really just freaked out at the thought of there being a possible zerger. This doesn't really fix the possible 100% insta-kill zerging army problem, but an actual fix to that potential problem would be nice. By the way Bluish wolf, technically it would be the same, on a theoretical scale. But seeing as how our RNG isn't so Random, it could be more or less than 1 in 4 tries anytime. Which could bring serious CR greifage into play. Imagine, 10 Survivors go out with 10 Syringes each. There are 100 or zombies outside. Now seeing as how they aren't zerging, just really coordinated, they could potentially wipe out the entire Swarm using 45 ap each. They could get really lucky and get a successful syringe usage everytime. I mean if I can find 6 fully loaded shotguns in a row without Shopping, then this could possibly happen. I know, the chances of that actually happening are low, but it would still be possible. I like the thought of the suggestion, but it just wouldn't work. A dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 07:02, 8 June 2007 (BST)
8. Kill RNG would make this kill the game. Oh yay, zergers get less syringes, but wait, what happens when someone does it four times and gets four syringes. Yeah someone could do it four times and get no syringes but I have never known the RNG to work quite that way, it tends to favor success. This has the possibility of being way to good. --karek 09:04, 8 June 2007 (BST)
9. Kill - I'm all in favor of strickter zerg flags. But manufacture cost 20 AP because is it 100% certain. If it wasn't 100% certain searching would always and everytime beat making. Making manufacture completely useless.-- Vista  +1  14:31, 8 June 2007 (BST)
10. Kill - 5 AP to make a syringe, with a 25% chance of succeeding? You don't know much about statistics. Some people are going to end up getting them on the first try, some people are going to get them after 4 tries, and other people will, just through bad luck, end up trying as many as 10 times without getting a syringe. --Saluton 14:47, 8 June 2007 (BST)
11. Kill- What the heck? Nerfing revives=a nono. Revives are difficult enough already. I don't want to waste four syringes trying to revive someone. Nalikill 20:22, 8 June 2007 (BST)
12. kill going to have to vote kill even though i like this in theory. my problem is making it potentially cost so little, change it to 10AP/%50 and 5AP/%50 respectively and you get my keep. chance is good but taking the numbers as low as you suggest could easily toocause imbalance --Honestmistake 01:02, 9 June 2007 (BST)
13. Kill - Manufacturating is supposed to be a guaranteed action. I pay around 13 extra AP to have a syringe 100% sure of it. Don't nerf that. --Matthew Fahrenheit ^YRC☺T☺+1 03:25, 10 June 2007 (BST)
14. Kill -I origionally wrote up two or three paragraphs about all the super game-breacking changes just to eliminate NT zergs and- and - not even affecting zombie zergs in any way, which are mentioned far, far more than survivor ones, but I accidentally closed the window before saving the changes, so I guess you'll never know what I was going to say. --AlexanderRM 23:48, 13 June 2007 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes