Developing Suggestions

Developing Suggestions

This page is for presenting and discussing suggestions which have not yet been submitted and are still being worked on.

Further Discussion

Discussion concerning this page takes place here. Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general (including policies about it) takes place here.

Nothing on this page will be archived.

Please Read Before Posting

• Be sure to check The Frequently Suggested List and the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots before you post your idea. There you can read about many idea's that have been suggested already, which users should be aware of before posting what could be a dupe, or a duplicate of an existing suggestion. These include Machine Guns and Sniper Rifles. There users can also get a handle of what an appropriate suggestion looks like.
• Users should be aware that this is a talk page, where other users are free to use their own point of view, and are not required to be neutral. While voting is based off of the merit of the suggestion, opinions are freely allowed here.
• It is recommended that users spend some time familiarizing themselves with this page before posting their own suggestions.
• With the advent of new game updates, users are requested to allow some time for the game and community to adjust to these changes before suggesting alterations.

How To Make a Suggestion

Format for Suggestions under development

Please use this template for discussion. Copy all the code in the box below, click [edit] to the right of the header "Suggestions", paste the copied text above the other suggestions, and replace the text shown here in red with the details of your suggestion.

===Suggestion===
{{suggestionNew
|suggest_time=~~~~
|suggest_type=Skill, balance change, improvement, etc.
|suggest_scope=Who or what it applies to.
|suggest_description=Full description. Check spelling and be descriptive.
|discussion=|}}
====Discussion (Suggestion Name)====
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Cycling Suggestions

Developing suggestions that appear to have been abandoned (i.e. two days or longer without any new edits) will be given a warning for deletion. If there are no new edits it will be deleted seven days following the last edit.

This page is prone to breaking when there are too many templates or the page is too long, so sometimes a suggestion still under strong discussion will be moved to the Overflow-page, where the discussion can continue between interested parties.

The following suggestions are currently on the Overflow page: No suggestions are currently in overflow.

If you are adding a comment to a suggestion that has the deletion warning template please remove the {{SNRV|X}} at the top of the discussion section. This will show that there is active conversation again.

Please add new suggestions to the top of the list.

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Suggestions

Hardcore Mode

Timestamp:	Kamikazie-Bunny 01:35, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
Type:	Skill, balance change, improvement, etc.
Scope:	Anyone who wants to.
Description:	Simply put Hardcore Mode is a way of playing in Malton as an Original Monroeville zombie. At character creation there would be a tick box labelled "Hardcore" with a warning along the lines of "Warning: Hardcore players cannot be revived and cannot stand up from head-shot!" or words to that effect. As a hardcore player you cannot be revived and if you experience a head-shot it results in perma-death (as the warning suggests). Now people may be asking "WHY?", well aside from the extra challenge, change in game experience and shiny gold medal (or some other icon) in their profile page there would be 2 new additions to the stats page; 1 - "Hardcore players" under the basic stats telling people how many Hardcore players are currently standing in game; no biggie. 2 - A new section labelled "TOP 50 HARDCORE PLAYERS" Which as the title suggests gives a list of the top 50 hardcore players listed by total experience gained, this list will include the top 50 living/undead/dead/idle players listing their names and total experience acquired. 3 - A new section labelled "TOP 50 STANDING HARDCORE PLAYERS" Which lists the top 50 hardcore players currently standing (living/undead) and total experience gained. Notes: These Top 50 lists WILL NOT include profile links! *"TOP 50 STANDING HARDCORE PLAYERS" is an idea I'm unsure of so opinions please? Attempting to revive/scan a hardcore player will result in a message along the lines of "This specimen is unable to be revived." The shiny gold medal can be changed to something else if preferred (suggestions please). In game reason... There is now a 2nd strain of the zombie virus in Malton which although resistant to the Necrotech Revivification process does not have the same healing capabilities.

Discussion (Hardcore)

Well, first, not giving links to their profiles in the list is kinda pointless as you can get their profiles from their names at http://profiles.urbandead.info anyway. Second, over half of standing survivors have Headshot. There wouldn't be much skill involved in "surviving" as a hardcore zombie, mostly just luck. Third, how do you explain this in flavour terms? Why these zombies cannot be revived when everyone else can be? Why do these zombies die when headshot when everyone else just stands back up? --Midianian^|T|DS|C:RCS| 07:54, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Suggestions/RejectedDecember2005#One_Way_Ticket links] Been suggested before, several times. I don't have the time to look for the [, but the name "hardcore mode" has even been used. The problem is this would turn into "everyone vs the hardcore characters" instead of zombies vs survivors. I forget the other arguments against I'm tired.--Pesatyel 08:01, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

No one would survive for more than a week in Malton on "hardcore" mode before being permadead. It'd be completely pointless, sorry. Buy rot but play as a survivor, that's the REAL hard more. Or take an alt like one of mine who has no combat skills and try playing him! There are many ways to make the game more interesting, they just require creativity with your playing style -- as opposed to altering the mechanics. --WanYao 08:14, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

This is the suggestion Pesatyel was on about.

The main point in this is the pointlessness of the whole thing, you want to have Kevan code specifically for characters that are just going to get abandoned the first time some trenchie decides to get bored and step away from the mall breach and shoot a zombie outside. Add in the confusion to newbies over the two types of play.

This is mindless boredom playing out in the suggestions system. Take a survivor with the rots like Wan said, take a Level 5 character to every suburb in Malton doing something useful, or perhaps play your 'hardcore' character and just don't stand up when you get your first headshot. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 08:26, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

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Military Satellite

Timestamp:	A Big F'ing Dog 15:09, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
Type:	Skill
Scope:	Survivors
Description:	The military is still active outside of Malton. They rebuilt the forts, drop packages, maintain the quarantine. Their satellites in space should still be functioning as well. I suggest having the military decide to share some satellite data with its personnel trapped in Malton. I suggest adding a new military skill called Intelligence Officer, or something more clever with the same gist. It would give you clearance to access satellite data using the computers in fort armories, when the building is powered and intact. Survivors with the skill would have an "Satellite View" button, next to two small boxes. One to enter an x coordinate, the other a y coordinate. Once valid numbers are entered pressing satellite view would show you an outside view of that one square (not a 3x3 map, just an exterior view of the single square you choose). The cost would be 5AP. This would allow the forts to act as command centers of a sort. Or at least allow the "military commanders" that take refuge there to be informed about places all over the city. Want to check mall statuses? NTs? You can do that. Anywhere in the city. What keeps this from being overpowered is the high expense. Not so useful for being safe and lazy and checking up on nearby buildings. Maybe it'd save you a round trip if nothing is wrong, but if you actually want to go there you'd have been better off seeing for yourself rather than spending all that extra AP just for a peek. It isn't overpowered to look at buildings far away, because by the time you get there conditions may have changed. And if you really want a comprehensive view of an area it'd require multiple scans costing lots of AP. That said, I think this would have its uses and would make the fort more tactically interesting.

Discussion (Military Satellite)

I think you really should read this. --Midianian^|T|DS|C:RCS| 15:18, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not trying to make it balanced by attaching a high AP cost. The 5AP cost is just to discourage local usage. 5AP isn't ridiculously high, just enough to make this more appropriate for viewing distant squares. I think it's balanced not because of being rare or expensive, but because it wouldn't give survivors any major unfair advantage over what they have now. Of course, I think it's interesting/useful enough to be worth implementing. --A Big F'ing Dog 16:06, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Um. Why do you need a skill if its just typing in co-ords? Anyway. Why a satellite? Why not just a spy plane? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 16:18, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

It requiring a skill isn't necessary, but I think it's best not to give it away for free. It's not so much typing the coordinates, but knowing how to use the military systems in general. And a spy plane would require a human being involved, an unseen NPC pilot that people might not like the idea of. A satellite is just a machine like necronet. --A Big F'ing Dog 16:36, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't sound particularly useful. You might as well just check danger reports, or ask others. And I can't see why you would either want or need to know. Faranya 01:31, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, the danger reports are very general. They give you an idea of an entire neighborhood. This would let you check on a specific building. Coordinated groups might want a representative, or their leader, to remain in command at the fort, scouting buildings in whatever suburb they're in, giving commands by phone, radio, or through a group forum. --A Big F'ing Dog 02:44, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, except that the fort isn't exactly the safest place to be hanging out just to get information of random locations. You would actually be safe running all over hell and creation than at a fort under current conditions. Faranya 14:58, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

That's the idea. Want this ability? Better fight for it. --A Big F'ing Dog 15:00, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Wow, twice the failure all in one. X-Ray Vision and Rare =/= Balanced. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 08:05, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Maybe it would be better if the satelite was over a particular 10 x 10 area, and only co-ords in that area could be seen. --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 08:41, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

On second thought, I realize this idea could fall prey to alt abuse. People could use alts to help their other characters scout. Too bad. As an alternative, what if this just showed a 10x10 map centered on that fort's armory? All it would tell you are which buildings are normal, ruined, or powered. --A Big F'ing Dog 05:56, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

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Syringe Modification

Timestamp:	Lexicality 19:32, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Type:	Equipment Change
Scope:	The Undead.
Description:	Syringes act the same as headshot, adding an extra 5AP onto the standup cost. Why? Because according to the syringe's flavour text, when you inject a zombie, you're pumping a "glittering serum" that does "slow, molecular work". This is not something that you just jump up from. Having your flesh revitalised from rotten to living shouldn't happen instantly. I would prefer it to always cost 15AP, but there's no way that would be accepted. Your thoughts?

Discussion Syringe Modification

Your scope says the dead. surely you mean the living? As this would massively disadvantage them? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 19:45, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Why? It may be more realistic, but all it really does is take more time away from the player. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 19:47, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I actually like this idea, it's quite logical and imo in-genre. However, it has one very big problem: it's a massive buff to combat revives. --WanYao 19:58, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I said the undead because you're neither alive nor dead after being revived. But yes, realism, and inconvenience to the breathers.--Lexi^cali^ty 20:02, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

This is stupid. Let's say you're a level 1 zombie, and you only ever want to play as a zombie. Now, someone combat revives you whilst you're sleeping. You pay 15AP to stand up, say 3 to walk to a tall building that's VSB or less and one to enter it and one to jump. Now you pay 10AP to stand up as a zombie and resume your game again.

Bear in mind you get 48AP per day, you've just caused that player to spend 30 of those to return to a justified way of playing the game. No-one will ever start as the corpse class again. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 21:06, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't think people quite understand the suggestion. Or maybe it is just me. If you use a syringe on a zombie,they fall down and when they stand up, they are alive again. Therefore this affects SURVIVORS not zombies.--Pesatyel 06:30, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

It affects Mrh? cows and CR targets -- who are undead at the time they're poked. But, yeah, it comes into effect after they wake up -- alive. Now, as I said, and as Iscariot basically elaborated, it ends up being a gigantically unbalanced buff to the combat revive. Which really screw over newbies. --WanYao 07:04, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

That's just it, those guys WANT to be revived (well, the Mrh?-Cows). What DOESN'T adversally affect newbies? That's not much of a reason to vote against (so to speak). It affects SURVIVORS. If the said zombie wants to go back to zombie status, that's not THAT hard to do (and is, generally, easier than getting revived). 5 less AP to do that means little when all they have to do is stand outside when they AP out. If its against surivors, they already have significant advantages over newbie zombies (such as 1 AP move and the ability to ask for assistance and free run). After all, that, I don't like this idea. Its, at best, interesting from a flavor perspective, but the game doesn't need a "zombie headshot equivalent" and part of that sentiment comes from the fact it would affect ANYONE revived, regardless (unlike Headshot).--Pesatyel 03:48, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Getting killed by standing outside is quite expensive, taking ~17AP on average if you don't have Body Building, 20AP if you do. No, it's not your AP, but it's AP that would've been used for killing "real" survivors instead of getting you back to a zombie. Really, you don't say revives are cheap just because all you have to do is stand outside and wait. It's the same to getting killed by standing outside. It takes time for you and costs AP for someone else. --Midianian^|T|DS|C:RCS| 08:37, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Wait, what does Body Building have to do with anything here? You say "it costs AP for someone else". That's a bad thing? If they are attacking you, the are getting XP.--Pesatyel 06:03, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Hmm... what does Body Building have to do with getting killed? Think about it for a while and maybe you'll get it. And, uhh, yeah AP cost is a bad thing. The fact that it's someone else's AP doesn't really factor into it. It's that much AP not being spent on killing (pro-)survivors. And not everyone needs XP. --Midianian^|T|DS|C:RCS| 11:10, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

But were NOT talking about killing. We are talking about reviving. Your also forgetting that a standing survivors stands at HALF HIT POINTS (unless that's changed), so Body building amounts to, at most 2 extra attacks for the kill if someone is attacking the guy. Your also ignoring the fact the character can kill himself for as little as 1 AP (if inside). Your also forgetting about PKers.--Pesatyel 05:44, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I (at least) am talking about devivification, and the fact that it's not cheap. Yeah, revived characters stand up at half hit points, which does amount to two attacks, but you seem to be forgetting that zombies do not hit with every attack. It's two successful attacks that's needed to make up for the difference. Yeah, you can jump for one AP, plus one AP to stand up again, but you also seem to be forgetting that you have to be in a tall building before you can jump. I can guarantee that most of the time you won't be inside the building you were revived in (if you even were inside) and that most of the time tall buildings will be barricaded over VSB. Meaning that first you must find an entry point, then a tall building. That costs a whole lot more than 1 AP. As for your last point... waiting for someone to PK you is an even bigger waste of time and someone else's AP than standing outside. Really, how often do you get PKed? My survivors get PKed maybe once a month if they're really unlucky. I'd rather not wait for one month to get back to being a zombie. --Midianian^|T|DS|C:RCS| 09:49, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Your also, it sounds to me like, arguing that the newly standing survivor is NOT going to do anything but just stand there. Yes it will nominally take more than 1 AP to jump (the chance of being in the right building ARE low) but it really doesn't take THAT much to get into one, especially in a red suburb. And getting yourself PKed isn't terribly difficult when you can do it by being obnoxious and/or attacking others. It is MUCH easier to get dead then to get alive. Arguably, the person will stand at 35 AP. If they want to rezombify, they would STILL have to go about doing it whether they had 40 (no suggestion) or 35 (with suggestion). In that context, does 5 less really matter a whole lot? ESPECIALLY if you consider that, once they are done for the day. they just have end up in a conscpicuous place (assuming they didn't get offed during the session) and will likely "wake up dead" the next time they log on. If not, well than that's a FULL 50 AP to do the dead. It sounds like your saying these guys will be "reverse Mrh?-Cows).--08:09, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

A head shot for harmans! so they will be on half HP and minus 5 AP, Its interesting if not annoying but maybe too annoying to those that live in the more dangerous parts of Malton!--mo ヽ(´ー｀)ﾉ ^{MCM MOB DB} 23:24, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Get rid of the half HP and this is a good plan. Half HP and Headshot-like AP penalty, not a good plan. Faranya 21:53, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

This sugestion made me think about the current system and how it basically screws everyone. Unwanted revives are a pain in the ass and the quickest way to clear a room of zeds, that surely was never the intention? Paying 10AP to perform an altruistic action on someone is also pretty expensive when seen as a proportion of your days actions (add to that the cost of finding the needle and its as much a drain as headshot!) However I feel that any significant modification to the current system will never pass or be implemented simply because it would not make "in game" sense to change the mechanic at this stage... However we have now had 2 new maps with the hope of more to follow so I think its worth discussing mechanisms that people might think fairer but would not want to see implemented in Malton. Anyway, for starters how would people feel about a mechanic wherby a syringe dropped its target to 0HP and the "slow molecular work" caused them to gain health at a rate of 2 per hour? This would force survivors to wait a good while before standing up while allowing career zeds to jump up immediatly and fall down again pretty damn quick (esp if they are infected).--Honestmistake 09:48, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

What the holy fuck are you talking about? Do you even read what you type or is just

Seriously, 10 AP for an instant "kill" on a zombie (altruistic my asshole) is "expensive"? Yes, finding needles is harder now that there are more standing survivors than zombies. Oh noes! And I don't even know where to start mocking the syringe drops HP to 0 suggestion. Just UGH! -- #99 ^DCC 17:58, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if this is needed logic wise. A syringe already leaves a survivor in less than top shape, with half their health. AP represents game power rather than physical condition. Penalizing the newly revived with an AP cost should be done only if the newly revived are overpowered, rather than to reflect the strain of coming back from the dead. That's already reflected through weakened health. --A Big F'ing Dog 20:34, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

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Canned Food

Timestamp:	Red Hawk One 07:05, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Type:	New recovery item
Scope:	Survivors.
Description:	Imagine yourself as a survivor who just miraculously survived a zombie attack with a small amount of HP and an infection. You crawl off into a warehouse to die when an untouched can of food left on one of the shelves catches your eye. You quickly wolf it down and, feeling slightly rejuvenated now that you have food in you, think you may be able to make it to the local hospital to seek medical attention. Canned food would be a new method of healing HP, along with First Aid Kits and alcoholic beverages. When used, food would have a 50% chance of restoring 5 HP, and a 50% chance of restoring 1 HP (representing spoiled food). Food would have a 2% encumbrance, not cure infection, and only be useable on oneself. It could be found in warehouses (8%), schools (5%), stadiums (3%), cinemas (3%), and possibly in malls (a new grocery store/ food court?). Canned food would help survivors, particularly low-leveled ones, in situations where a hospital is out of reach (low AP, over barricaded, etc.) and health is severely needed. Food would also be an interesting addition in the RP sense as well. Currently zombies are able to eat when active, while survivors seem to be mysteriously immune to the effects of hunger. While it is possible survivors eat while logged off, there are also just as many times where they would eat during activity as well- a survivor celebrating a triumph over a zombie with a snack comes to mind. Any and all comments/ideas/criteque are welcome.

Discussion (Canned Food)

So. At random in some buildings there are cans of food (like corpses for zombies but more random.)

You have a button saying eat food. and you get a random number of HP and then its gone?

Maybe. But.

• Certainly not in ruined buildings.

• The has to be a chance it does you damage. Remember how long the food been there.--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 14:27, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

But not kill, as falling from a ruined building? Also, it does need some adjusting, but then again, that's the purpose of this page. _■^■ 19:47, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Can you not die by falling? never knew that. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 19:49, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Isn't this a dupe? --WanYao 20:00, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Peer Reviewed no less, complete with food poisoning mechanics in the community's approval. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 21:25, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

While both of these adress the same idea (eating as a form of survivor-HP restoration), it seems to me that the implementation of that idea is different enough to not warrant a dupe. Besides, is eating a can of food really the same as eating a rat?--Red Hawk One 18:46, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Just to clarify, food is found and used exactly in the same way as alcohol. Given the base search rate, finding food in a ruin is rather low, but there is always the chance of finding a can the zombies missed. As for HP, something like a 40% chance healing 5HP, 25% chance for 1HP, 25% 0HP, and 10% chance of causing 2 damage might be a little better; I am just a little wary of too many variables for such a relatively simple function. As Dr. Cory suggested, food could not kill (like when falling from a ruin), but would always leave the survivor with at least 1HP. I am fairly confidant this is not a dupe; the only food suggestions I ever came a cross were all in Humorous Suggestions.--Red Hawk One 20:32, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

The only reason that beer and wine are in the game are due to genre reasons. It's popular for people to cope (or not depending on your view) with a zombie apocalypse by getting blind drunk. People don't break out their can opener and gorge on sweetcorn when they can't cope with reality any more. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 21:25, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

First of all, food is already an assumed part of the game. While it happens in scary moviesall the time, Malton citizens don't get caught off guard taking a shit either. The easiest thing would be to just replace the description of beer/wine at some locations with "cans of cat food" (or whatever). But the food poisoning is kinda interesting.--Pesatyel 06:38, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

While making food a carbon copy of alcohol would be easier, it still stands that food and beer are two different things. You're probably (physically) going to feel better after eating than drinking; likewise, you'll feel the effects of rotten food (damage from food poisoning) a lot faster than any adverse health effects of alcohol.--Red Hawk One 18:46, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

True, but your STILL ignoring the fact that food is already considered part of the game.--Pesatyel 03:50, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

It is assumed to be part of the game- nothing (other than player assumptions) either confirms or denies that survivors even eat. As far as that flavor argument goes, if zombies can eat during playtime, why shouldn't survivors?--Red Hawk One 05:13, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Because the game is BASED IN REALITY. The only special conditions for Urban Dead are that zombies are real and the ability to resurrect the dead is real. Those are the only fantastical elements. Otherwise everything strives to be realistic (in fact that is one of the two KEY ingredients of suggestions). The reason zombies eat is because it is part of the zombie genre. The time frame for playing is severly limited and the basic game is zombies vs survivors. We don't need the AP spent eating, let alone taking a shit, sleeping, bathing, or other generic "assumed" events.--Pesatyel 06:26, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Food would just be an alternative, semi-useful (and flavorful) way to regain a little HP. If you don't want to spend your AP rummaging in a warehouse for and eating a can of food, don't. It would have absolutely no effect on you or how you play. Put simply, food would serve ONLY as a recovery item and nothing else (think of a first aid kit but tastier).--Red Hawk One 06:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

That's why I suggested just renaming beer and wine at some locations to food names. Beer and wine don't go bad?--Pesatyel 08:11, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

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Scent Blood Improvement

Timestamp:	Faranya 01:36, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
Type:	Skill improvement
Scope:	Zombies
Description:	Scent Blood allows you to see the HP values and infection status of nearby survivors, right? But what of those zombies you have become acquainted with? Basically, I propose that zombies with Scent Blood should allow zombies to see the HP values of those on their contact list, regardless of whether they are human or zombie at the time. This of course only applies to those contacts located in the same block at the time. Infection status too, I suppose, but that might be kind of redundant. This doesn't apply to all zombies, just the ones on your contact list. The reason being, a random zombie is just that, a random zombie, an you would have no idea if it was suffering from fresh wounds indistinguishable from the old. But, a zombie you know, you should be able to realize when they have new wounds.

Discussion (Scent Blood Improvement)

Useless. What good would it do to see a zombie's hit points as a zombie? You can't heal or help them. And then as a cross over skill, this would cancel zombie anonymity and make it to easy to kill zombies.--Pesatyel 03:50, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, perhaps it ruins anonymity...of course, being on someone's contact list does that anyways. Faranya 04:30, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

But it doesn't currently show you their HP values, which is not something zombies like broadcasting. --William Told and Co. ^{ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ} 19:54, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. It gives TOO much information to survivors, who would be the only ones to use this "zombie skill". And if you excluded it as a cross over, its useless because, as I said, what do zombies care what the HP of other zombies is? They can't DO anything about it.--Pesatyel 20:01, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, they can. They can kill them. It lets them avoid headshot and it allows them to stand up with full HP. But that doesn't mean that I think this is a good suggestion.--Midianian^|T|DS|C:RCS| 09:40, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Not only that but in a horde situation breaking into a high population zone it would allow active zeds to not only save their fellows headshop AP but also steal kills and basically muck about with the combats dynamics way too much. --Honestmistake 09:50, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Not useful for zombies. Unless you are in a damned war and wish to exterminate the other. But then is not very likely. --LithedarkangelMeth!^{The Great Meth Man} 01:27, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

It's scent blood. I assume the skill scents the blood which flows harmanz veins. Zombies, however, are dead... There's nothing there to scent... Except the rot... ROT! ROT! ROT! ROT! ROT! ROT! ROT!!! Erm.... excuse me, I got a little carried away there. But you catch my meaning, no? ;) --WanYao 07:05, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

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Manuals

Timestamp:	Blake Firedancer T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T. 00:25, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Type:	Item.
Scope:	Survivors
Description:	Manuals are found in Libraries at a rate of 7% unpowered, 3% for ruined and 10% for powered, in Mall Bookstores for 8% unpowered, 2% ruined and 12% powered, and in Schools for 6% unpowered, 1% ruined and 9% powered. Once you have found a Manual, you must use it (by clicking the button) to find out what type of manual it is. There is an even chance of it being one of the following, with the following effects being enabled for as long as you carry the manual: Engineer's Manual - Building repair costs are reduced by 10% Medical Dictionary - Adds 2 HP to the effect of all FAKs Computer Technician's Manual - Manufacturing syringes costs 18 AP (Still cannot manufacture without the required skill) Martial Arts Manual - Adds 1 point of damage to Fists Each manual has 8% encumberance. The effect begins as soon as you find out what the manual is, and is in effect for as long as the manual is in your inventory. The effects do not stack with each other, so carrying 5 Medical Dictionaries will have the same effect as carrying one.

Discussion (Manuals)

The Martial Arts one doesn't quite make sense to me. I can understand using the other manuals while performing the respective actions, but asking a zombie to stand still while you check the manual for "how to punch" seems a little weird. Other than that I think this will get shot down because it's a buff to survivors with not so great a cost. - User:Whitehouse 00:35, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

That's fine, I was pushing a bit for that one. Definately the weakest of the bunch. --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 06:35, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, what Whitehouse said. It needs some cost associated with it, other then the searching. Linkthewindow  Talk  02:43, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

The same, it needs to cost more for survivors...until that it's just a buff to make things easier for survivors. --LithedarkangelMeth!^{The Great Meth Man} 03:02, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure as to how to increase the cost. Perhaps all moves that require a manual (aside from repairing buildings) have double the AP cost in order to use the book. --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 06:35, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Manufacturing cost 20AP -> 8AP is way too much. --Midianian^|T|DS|C:RCS| 10:06, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh, right. Sorry. I thought it was 10 AP to start. I'll edit that now. --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 10:29, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Give them an xp cost to use and only allow one at a time, logically this could be considered as having learned the books contents and keeping it to hand in order to consult for technical details. Oh and a zed should be allowed to carry 1 manual too. Obviously zombies are not noted for their reading ability; however we have all seen films where the hero is saved from a bullet by that handy pocket bible or watch.... as such a zombies manual should have a 10% chance to negate the next shot that would "kill" it, this attack would instead destroy the book.

Yes I am (mostly) joking ;) --Honestmistake 14:12, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

How would a zed get one? They can't search. Are you going to have Jehovah's Witnesses passing out thick copies of the WatchTower to Zeds ?

The important question is how much damage do they do when I hit someone with them and will it be like a newspaper and have 100% to hit? -- #99 ^DCC 18:02, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps if you had to read the manual for the same cost and chance of success as a book, and it granted the bonus for, say your next 5 actions...and negated the XP you would have earned for doing those actions... Faranya 15:11, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

What if performing an action that benefits from the manual has a chance of using it up. "You feel you have learned everything useful in the manual." Or, manuals can be part of a buildings library. You install it in buildings just like a generator, and it only benefits that one building and gets destroyed when it's ruined. --A Big F'ing Dog 18:38, 8 January 2009 (UTC) w 5 899999999999999999999999999999999999 Change the mechanics and activate the effect upon using the magazine. Then give a % of the magazine taking effect that is inversely proportional to the number of actions taken since the book was read, I suggest an equation of x = 100 - 7.5n, X being the percentage and N being the number of actions taken after reading the magazine. --Diablor 02:37, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Overpowered. Not necessarily terrible in concept, but way overpowered. And one sided. - tylerisfat 08:09, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

This isn't one sided because zombies lack the intelligence to read --Diablor 19:35, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Its one sided because survivors would get basically a free buff to their choice of actions and zombies get nothing but hit with more damage. - tylerisfat 05:32, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

That and you can't argue zombies are stupid in a game where zombism is more evolution than revival. Note Scent Tree, zombie speech, gesturing, re-cognative ability(Memories of Life), and that the players themselves are smart(it means the characters they play will act in a manner that shows intelligence). If Kevan wanted zombies to be stupid they've be NPCs with different flavor.--Judge Karke, self-proclaimed Decider of Everything and Ruler of All 05:48, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, the first thing you do wrong is proposing search rates for powered and unpowered. When proposing a search rate provide only one, powered or unpowered, powering or ransacking a building increase/decrease the search rate by a set percent put into the game system already so all proposing different search rates does is make it impossible to know what the real search rates will be. The second mistake I see here is that it's a permamnent upgrade; Bad idea, we don't need more useful forms of flak jackets, much less do we need to make survivors have the ability to nullify a week or more of zombies holding a building by repairing with a fifth off. If you're going to have the buff item it needs to be randomized upon reading, so you don't know what you get, and it needs to last for only a certain amount of time after reading. Like say a day with the item disappearing after use. Also, I like the idea of giving punching a buff very much.--Judge Karke, self-proclaimed Decider of Everything and Ruler of All 05:13, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

OK, I think that the 'benefit only for next action' method would work better. Oh, and as for a change in the repair one, how about it only takes 10% off the repair cost if the ruin requires more than 30AP to repair? --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 13:37, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Reading manuals can give you skills (already represented by books granting XPs), but if you need to consult the manual still, you'll be working SLOWER and getting WORSE results for most tasks. The exception is when for some reason the tasks require different info each time you do them (eg, referencing specs and diagrams for car repairs on various different models)- which isn't really the case in any of the above examples, nor would a single manual suffice for the variety of cases encountered.  Swiers 03:06, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

You know what would be cool. Skills that can only be gained from XP from certain books in the game. They'd have to be somewhat strong to justify the difficulty in getting them though. Like say car repair. --Judge Karke, self-proclaimed Decider of Everything and Ruler of All 03:20, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Related to Swiers' point, how about reducing the AP for an extended action through reading? For ruins it might be considered overpowered with their sliding cost, but what about syringe manufacture? Spending 1 AP to read the Syring Manual (New Item) would reduce the cost of manufacturing a syringe as your next action to 16 AP? What's the maths on that? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 03:29, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

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Suggestions up for voting

Feral Hearing

This suggestion is up for voting here and its discussion is now here . --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 15:32, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Sprinting

This suggestion is up for voting here and its discussion is now here --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 14:21, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

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