User talk:Aichon

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Aichon

ˈīˌkän :Talk

Please be aware of the following guidelines before posting here.

• New conversations should be started at the bottom using a level two header (e.g. ==Header==).
• I like to keep conversations wherever they start, but if a conversation ends up here, I will keep it here.
• I will format comments for stylistic reasons, delete comments for whatever reason, and generally do anything else within reason.

Thanks. —Aichon—

Archives: 2018 | 2017 | 2016 | 2015 | 2014 | 2013 | 2012 | 2011 | 2010 | 2009 | To do

Barrista Feedback

Hello again. I tried Barrista but isn't working properly. I thought that the others scripts/extensions could be messing with it, so I disabled them all but with no luck. Here's a screencapture. I'm using Firefox 3.0.15 with latest Greasemonkey. Regards.--telepibe 03:50, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

How very odd, but you're completely correct...it does the same thing in my copy of Firefox. Thanks for letting me know. I hadn't yet tested it in Firefox, just because it and Safari usually render things similarly and I wasn't calling this a full release yet, but obviously they didn't render the same this time. Not quite sure what to make of that. I'll look into it when I get a chance, but I'm not sure what the issue is or how much work it'll take to fix. Thanks again for cluing me in. Hopefully I'll get that cleaned up so the Firefox folks can use it. —Aichon— 05:13, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

I've given Barrista a try and it seems to work fine in Opera 10. Chief Seagull (talk) 09:44, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Glad to hear it. From what I saw, it mostly works in Chrome as well, though I had to make a few modifications. I've been keeping this message here all this time, rather than archiving it, because I still plan to go back and fix it for Firefox one of these days. Just haven't gotten around to it yet. Once I make the Firefox fixes, I'll roll them in with my Chrome fixes, and will hopefully have v1.0 ready then. —Aichon— 15:02, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Hey, I've really been enjoying your scripts, especially Barrista (it works beautifully on Chrome 5.0.360.0). Since the Rogues Gallery has moved from ud-malton.info to urbandead.net, I took the liberty of changing that one line of the script to get RG working again, and uploaded it here (I zipped it up so it doesn't automatically try to install in your browser, since I figured you would want to look at the script before installing it). Anyway, thanks for all your hard work, it is certainly appreciated! Cam moo 06:47, 30 March 2010 (BST)

Thanks for the update and the fix! I actually wasn't even aware that RG had moved yet, truth be told. I really should get around to fixing Barrista proper, since it's by far my favorite script, yet it doesn't work across the board. In older versions of Chrome, it has issues with text placement, in Firefox it doesn't work at all, etc. Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks. I don't have time at the moment to give it a once-over, but the fix should've been straightforward, so I'm sure you nailed it. I'll try to remember to post the update sometime this week, and thanks again! —Aichon— 09:21, 30 March 2010 (BST)

Ok, I went ahead and rolled in your change (I actually went with the link it resolved to, rather than the one you used, but they go to the same place in the end) to a newer beta version I've been using for a few months. Hopefully everything works out okay with it, but it's working fine on my end. —Aichon— 18:27, 31 March 2010 (BST)

Cool! I wish I knew more about JavaScript, I would try and help you work on it. Unfortunately, copy-pasting URLs is pretty much the extent of my scripting knowledge. But, thanks again for all the work you've put into it, and if there are any more super easy fixes that I find, I'll let you know. - Cam moo 21:21, 31 March 2010 (BST)

Sup, Sop?

Promotion eh? Well done sir. This may be vaguely helpful. Help:The_NOT_so_secret_diary_of_a_sysop --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:21, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Mucho gracias. I was about five minutes away from searching for it since I knew I needed to read through it again. —Aichon— 11:25, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

I really should rewrite it, as I know most of the answers anyway now. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:32, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, it'd be useful. The red exclamation marks were the first new thing I noticed, and I still don't quite get them. It'd also be useful if it covered some of the sysop perks that aren't really mentioned in guidelines much (such as when we can use the buttons to do things in our own userspace that would otherwise need to have gone through the admin pages first had they been any other page). Anyway, I'm sure I'll figure it all out, but I'll probably be hitting up the first sysop I see on IRC with some questions. —Aichon— 11:38, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Speaking of IRC, any idea who I talk to in order to get made an op in #urbandeadwiki? —Aichon— 11:44, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Pass. I'm off the firm belief that all my wiki discussion should be done on the wiki. I did discuss one case wity Karek once, but thats about it. As for the red exclamation marks they pop up on many things, basically any new page or edit to a page that isnt a user editting their own namespace or any sysop edit is "Flagged" as potential vandalism that needs to be checked. I barely notice them anyway. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:53, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, the trouble I was having with them was understanding their handling in actual practice, as opposed to what they meant. I.e. do we actually use them here for their intended purpose? From what I've seen, it appears that the answer is "no". Is that correct? Anyway, off to bed...played Demon's Souls way too late and then discovered the promotion right as I was heading to hit the sack. —Aichon— 12:02, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

They're quite good for newb sops, but after a while you get a feel. You realise that a red user name is most likely to commit vandalism, and that if Player X is editing page Y its going to cause nothing but drama. I hate the welcome template and would much rather write welcome messages to those noobs who look like they might well be newbs. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:04, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Speaking of which, I could have a bit to add onto that article for both lols and bureaucrat POV. --

 

 

 

 

12:07, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Main namespace. Go mad. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:08, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Well done on your promotion mate! Chief Seagull squawk ^{don't mess with the Seagull!} 11:30, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! —Aichon— 11:38, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Am I too late to party? I brought wines. 15:52, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

I came back to this yay. I'll go get some party. -- Rahrah wants you all to speak to him. 16:06, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

D'aww, guys. You know me. I like to keep it low-key. —Aichon— 19:00, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Aichon for crat!--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 19:07, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Shhh! Keep your voice down and head over to DDR's talk. ;) —Aichon— 19:19, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations man! --Jesant13 00:39, 29 March 2010 (BST)

I'm also late, but congrats on getting sysop. This wiki could always use more helpful users. Linkthewindow  Talk  07:25, 2 April 2010 (BST)

That it could, but I fail to see the connection to my promotion... :P —Aichon— 07:37, 2 April 2010 (BST)

Replace "users" with "sysops" :P. Linkthewindow  Talk  13:40, 2 April 2010 (BST)

Belated woo. --  RoosterDragon  18:06, 5 April 2010 (BST)

CHUD

Hi Aichon! I've found that using last version of UD Better HP Colorizer CHUD doesn't show up and Firefox gives a "some script it's taking too long to respond" warning. I'm sorry I am always the bearer of bad news. Regards. --telepibe 22:59, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Somehow I missed this comment in all of the hubbub a few days ago. Anyway, I'm glad someone's letting me know about these issues, so it's not bad news at all. I'm just sorry I haven't gotten around to responding to them in a timely manner. With chud, is it doing it in every building, or just some (particularly in ones with lots of people)? I know chud needs some work, since my version doesn't seem to function at all in Chrome...I'll have to go through and give it a hard look at some point, since it seems to have quite a few issues holding it up. Sorry about these bugs. —Aichon— 02:04, 29 March 2010 (BST)

You don't have to be sorry at all. I have last version of CHUD (2009-12-08) and UD Better HP Colorizer too (1.1.1). Yes, as far as I noticed, it does it in every building (inside or outside) whether there are many people or few. What's true is that if there's a lot of people the page loads terribly slow and sometimes Firefox gave me the warning I told you before (I've pretty much get rid of that warning sending UD Profile Links to the bottom of script's list, no idea why though). Hope that helps.--telepibe 16:37, 30 March 2010 (BST)

Thanks!

I heard you were one of the main designers of the circle format coding. It turned out great! Thanks! --TheBardofAwesome 02:40, 29 March 2010 (BST)

Well, to be clear, I wrote the code that Misanthropy is using to make it possible to click on an image like that, but he's the one that applied my code to make the circle. Actually, that brings up another point: he's using a template that's in my Sandbox still, since we haven't put it into main space yet. We'll probably need to do that before you can actually use your new circle. :P —Aichon— 03:10, 29 March 2010 (BST)

Someone killed the wiki map

It said you have become the sysop on the man page so I thought I should tell this to you, I don't really know what to tell you other then "someone killed the wiki map." You have to see this for yourself; I hope my reporting this helps in it getting fixed, sorry if I sent this to the wrong person.--Truezombieboy 05:00, 1 April 2010 (BST)

You talked to one of the right people, and thanks for letting me know. I've fixed it. It was someone's April Fool's Day prank. —Aichon— 07:23, 1 April 2010 (BST)

Two Pence

Pulled from the User talk:Aichon/Threat Suburbs —Aichon— 06:53, 10 April 2010 (BST)
Threat5 seems too brown to fit the gradation. It could just be me though. 04:35, 10 April 2010 (BST)

Yeah, it kinda looked that way to me as well, but it was just a weird illusion thing. At the time, I had run the math, and those colors were perfectly gradated. Anyway, new colors now. I incorporated some golds, as per your idea, and I really think it helped. Not sure if it's enough, but it's a start. —Aichon— 06:53, 10 April 2010 (BST)

UD Map Links

Hi Aichon. Now that the Red Rum map seems to be on permanent hiatus (as reflected in your 1.3 update to your UD Map Links GS script) I've found myself using Sophie's DSS Red Zone map as a replacement. I modified your 1.3 script so that it offers a wiki map link and an DSS map link (in place of the CDF map) and wanted to see if you'd grant your permission for me to publish it here on the wiki as an alternative. Would that be OK with you? -- M arcusF ilby ^T 04:19, 11 April 2010 (BST)

By all means, feel free to do so. The code for that particular script is released under the GPL anyway, so you're free to modify it as much as you want, so long as you release it afterwards. Besides, I took over work on that script for someone else, so it was hardly mine to begin with. I've just made a few slight modifications to keep it working and whatnot. —Aichon— 04:31, 11 April 2010 (BST)

Awesome, thanks. I saw the GPL bit but wasn't sure when I saw the copyrights in the comments. Cheers! - M arcusF ilby ^T 06:28, 11 April 2010 (BST)

Here

	An iPad, and it's for you!
	Iscariot has given Aichon an iPad so he can get started on takeover plans!

-- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 07:38, 11 April 2010 (BST)

Wow. Just wow. Words cannot accurately convey the feeling of gratitude I am feeling right now, since you said you'd have to sell your kidneys to get me one of those. That you value my half-assed (and never going to happen) attempts at taking over UDWiki more than your own vital organs...that says a lot to me. I'll cherish this forever. —Aichon— 08:02, 11 April 2010 (BST)

I've made a...

...recruitment ad for my group. To save us all some time, is there anything wrong with it?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 00:46, 12 April 2010 (BST)

For one, the font's black on a black field. 00:46, 12 April 2010 (BST)

It's green but for some reason it isn't working.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 00:49, 12 April 2010 (BST)

The timestamp needs to be in the table, and the linebreaks between tables need to be fixed up, but otherwise I wouldn't have any issues with it myself. I'd just put the timestamp in the recruit template itself so that it turns green. Should work. —Aichon— 00:51, 12 April 2010 (BST)

Can you see the font?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 00:52, 12 April 2010 (BST)

I fixed your font but I may have removed the timestamp. 00:54, 12 April 2010 (BST)

But templates are forbiddaan!!!--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 00:55, 12 April 2010 (BST)

Shit, right you are. Hold on. 00:57, 12 April 2010 (BST)

I fixed it. Yonnua's last version was fine anyway. :P —Aichon— 00:58, 12 April 2010 (BST)

Thanks. I need to leave now. My home planet is in danger.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 00:58, 12 April 2010 (BST)

It is now green. 01:02, 12 April 2010 (BST)

It wasn't green for you when using the font tag? Odd. Well, I prefer spans anyway. —Aichon— 01:08, 12 April 2010 (BST)

Nope, it was black. Also, Yon, if it was me, I'd differentiate the links somehow (I tend to underline them), and possibly center the timestamp. But that's just me. 01:11, 12 April 2010 (BST)

Yeah, I agree with Mis. While technically it works now, stylistically there are still issues. The links definitely need to look different somehow (I'd suggest a lighter shade of green or underlined). —Aichon— 01:18, 12 April 2010 (BST)

You mean does all the text show up? Yes, for me it does. If you're using a fancy font though, then no, it just looks like the standard font to me, but I don't see that you have any code to change what the font is, so I assume you meant the former, not the latter. —Aichon— 00:54, 12 April 2010 (BST)

I meant does it appear at all. :P --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 00:55, 12 April 2010 (BST)

Looked like it appeared to me in your last version. Mis' version with the templates actually lost a period. —Aichon— 00:58, 12 April 2010 (BST)

Re: Cookies

	A FREE COOKIE
	Mis has given Acorn a cookie for some kind of sorcery

21:13, 12 April 2010 (BST)

I'll treasure them always. On the main page of my user space, of course. —Aichon— 21:21, 12 April 2010 (BST)

Forcing images to the right?

I have an image, under a level two header that I want forced to the right without displacing any of the text... but I can't make it come out right... do you know how I could make it work? -Poodle of Doom^{M! T} 03:34, 15 April 2010 (BST)

[[Image:filename.png|##px|right]] should make it work (replace ## with the required width). You may need to force a line break (use <br/>) to keep the image from being on the same line as the text, but that should force it to the right. 03:53, 15 April 2010 (BST)

Awesome,... it worked for me... thanks! -Poodle of Doom^{M! T} 03:56, 15 April 2010 (BST)

Yep, that works. The alternative is to wrap it in a div with float:right as a CSS property, which will cause the text to wrap around the image, or you could wrap it in a div with display:inline and text-align:right, which I think should bump it to the right side, though it will also likely wrap text. If you want the text to clear out so that it's under the image, then the clear:right or clear:both property would be needed, but I'd have to fool around with it myself to tell you which you'd need to use. Anyway, glad to see Mis was able to help you quickly. —Aichon— 05:47, 15 April 2010 (BST)

Makes a change. 05:51, 15 April 2010 (BST)

Style up.

Your pages are sexy. Im looking at revamping the zombie skills page, converting it into a hub with each page having its own page. Here's an example, any thoughts on styling it up? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 14:51, 16 April 2010 (BST)

Heh, well, style isn't something that comes naturally for me. I spent a few months figuring out what my pages should look like, and threw out several designs that initially seemed promising. I can recognize decent design usually, but I'm not good at producing it. Anyway, I'm responding now to let you know I'm not ignoring you, but that I want to take a bit more to think over it. Any timeline you have on this? I have one idea regarding displaying the entire hierarchy at the top of each page, but it was taking longer to make than I expected. Aside from that idea, I don't have anything new at the moment. I'd change the shade of green though, since it glares a bit. Something a bit muted would work better, I think (#cec or #aca are decent, though you could go darker to #8a8 or the like if you want). I'll look at it again and think over it a bit more later. —Aichon— 05:24, 17 April 2010 (BST)

Two pence here. I agree on the darker green, but I'm thinking instead of displaying the whole skill hierarchy, just the particular tree in question (Memories tree, Vigor tree, etc) would be all that is needed. 13:39, 17 April 2010 (BST)

I was going to display the tree horizontally. Or rather, display each main branch of the tree under its own column. It'd be using the same amount of vertical space as your idea, but it'd fill out the horizontal better, give better utility, and would also give them a clearer idea of where they were in the hierarchy. Anyway, it's almost 8am here...bed time! —Aichon— 13:44, 17 April 2010 (BST)

As i started the project about a year ago, there's no hurry. But thanks. Nice Idea about the tree. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 14:34, 17 April 2010 (BST)

Recruit

How's that, I tried to adjust it by adding "height:800px;" to the coding,... though I'm not sure it's changed a whole lot.... Let me know what you think now. -Poodle of Doom^{M! T} 04:46, 18 April 2010 (BST)

Still too tall. Here are some ways you can cut it down in height:

1. Cut text out of the ad itself
2. Shrink text or image sizes
3. Make it wider

Take a look at the RRF's ad. It comes in at just under 800px. You need to get yours to be about as tall as theirs at the very most. Right now, yours is about twice theirs in height. Good luck! ;) —Aichon— 04:59, 18 April 2010 (BST)

You know what,... I have to question this really... it says that the 800px height is only a rough guidline... do I really need to be changing this? -Poodle of Doom^{M! T} 05:18, 18 April 2010 (BST)

I'd personally say yes, but you are correct that it is currently just a guideline. I'm asking you to do it, not ordering, since I consider it common courtesy to follow the guidelines and not have an ad that's significantly taller than everyone else's. That said, the wording for that is being changed in the next version of the instructions, which will likely be posted up very soon (they're written up, but we've been lazy posting them), making it a requirement, rather than a guideline. So once those are up, you'd have to change it anyway, and they'll go up any day or time now, pretty much whenever Mis or I get around to it. If you'd prefer not to change it in the meantime, you probably won't get in any trouble, and I certainly have no intention of pursuing it further. Again, I'm just asking you to do it, not ordering. —Aichon— 07:07, 18 April 2010 (BST)

Don't get me wrong,... I haven't taken offense at anything you said, or requested of me. But still... I just got it to where everyone in the group approves of it... including me. Now it should be changed... Good Grief. I'll work on it when the rules change. -Poodle of Doom^{M! T} 15:17, 18 April 2010 (BST)

Restricting Template Usage

Hi Aichon, thank you for your offer regarding Template:DEMnavbar. If it is possible to prevent unauthorized pages from using it, we would very much like to put such a restriction into place. We would certainly be grateful for any tips you could offer. Thanks again, G F J 10:09, 20 April 2010 (BST)

Complete waste of his time, as I'll just show them how to put the raw code on their pages. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 10:32, 20 April 2010 (BST)

Indeed, it would be possible for them to do that. Of course, if changes were ever made to the template, they'd have to make the changes themselves as well, rather than being able to benefit automatically, so it does create an extra barrier to using the template. And I wouldn't say it's a complete waste, since it's an interesting idea to pursue. —Aichon— 18:50, 20 April 2010 (BST)

Basically, the gist of how you do it revolves around the use of the if equal template. That template checks to see if two things are equal, and if they are, it produces one response, while if they aren't, it produces a different response. If you're familiar with programming at all, it'd be like an if statement that is limited to testing equality (e.g. ==) and can't test anything else. We can use the BASEPAGENAME "magic word" against a list of known, accepted places where the template could be used, and if the BASEPAGENAME doesn't match one of them, produce a response accordingly. Therein also lies the problem, since it means that you need to provide code for every single location where it would be acceptable to display the template (you wouldn't have to do it for EVERY page, but you would have to do it for every group of pages, such as Malton Police Department, Department of Emergency Management, or any subpages of those pages that also themselves have subpages). In the end, I don't really think it's going to be feasible, and I'll show you why. The logic for it would look something like this:

{{if equal|{{BASEPAGENAME}}|Department of Emergency Management|YOUR ENTIRE TEMPLATE CODE GOES HERE|
{{if equal|{{BASEPAGENAME}}|Malton Police Department|YOUR ENTIRE TEMPLATE CODE GOES HERE|
{{if equal|{{BASEPAGENAME}}|Malton Fire Department|YOUR ENTIRE TEMPLATE CODE GOES HERE|SOME MESSAGE TO THE TEMPLATE THIEVES GOES HERE}}}}}}

As you can see in this example, it'd mean duplicating the existing code a number of times (three times in this example, but far more in reality). I'd have to check how big the current template is, but depending on its size, it may mean that the template would get large enough that it would literally break itself (the wiki starts breaking templates after they exceed a certain number of bytes). Also, keep in mind that the example I gave here is just the start. You'd have to do it for subpages as well if those subpages had subpages of their own (e.g. if MPD had a subpage for Members, which was then broken down by more subgroups, you'd need code for the Members page, but not for the subgroups' pages, unless those subgroups also had subpages of their own). There might be a way around it, but once I realized that you guys were using the template not just on the DEM organization pages, but also on all of the member groups' pages and others as well, I realized that it'd be a stretch. If I can think of ways around it, I'll let you know, but aside from cutting back on the places you allow the template to be used, I can't think of anything immediately, and I wouldn't consider that an acceptable solution to the problem. —Aichon— 18:50, 20 April 2010 (BST)

That's very interesting. Thank you for the detailed explanations! To avoid the problem of the template size, what we could do is create several templates instead of one, with each only used for a couple of template inclusions and not the whole list. To avoid duplicate content in the template namespace, such templates should then be DEM subpages (and added to pages with {{:name}} of course), this should prevent them from cluttering up template categories or any other part of the wiki. Of course, the disadvantage is that when the template is updated it would take a little longer, but as updates to Template:DEMnavbar are not too frequent, it would be manageable. The current count lists 42 pages as including the template, but some of these are incorrect inclusions anyway and a nice number are subpages of template-using pages and thus wouldn't have to be specially listed, so I do believe that 2-4 template copies would be sufficient, though of course I haven't tried it out yet. Using that number of templates instead of one shouldn't be a problem, and since they'd be DEM subpages, the potential problem of "spamming" the template namespace wouldn't exist. Either way, thank you once again for your reply, as soon as time permits I will definitely try this out. G F J 18:36, 21 April 2010 (BST)

As one additional heads up, tables in templates that are then included in other templates tend to be finicky. In order to have the best shot at success, I'd suggest numbering/naming each variable you use. E.g:

{{if equal|1={{BASEPAGENAME}}|2=Department of Emergency Management|3=YOUR ENTIRE TEMPLATE CODE GOES HERE|4=SOME MESSAGE TO THE TEMPLATE THIEVES GOES HERE}}

That will clear up a lot of issues. You might also have to use the {{!}} template in place of using | in some places. It can get a bit hairy if not done right, but it should be doable. —Aichon— 19:07, 21 April 2010 (BST)

Settling it once and for all

If you came here to reply to my post of the same name on your talk page, please head to User talk:Aichon/Other/Iscariot's Vandal Data instead. This is a big enough topic that I'd rather it was kept to its own page, rather than filling up my main talk page. —Aichon— 01:29, 21 April 2010 (BST)

UDMap

Hey, Aichon, I made another super easy change to one of your scripts, if you're interested. All I did was replace the redrum map links with links to the DSS map. I'm not sure what the best external map is, but at least DSS works. So, here's the script. - Cam moo 19:00, 21 April 2010 (BST)

Huh...coulda sworn I had updated that one already, but you're absolutely right, I hadn't. Thanks a lot! I'll update it later today since I'm heading out in just a sec here. And yep, I was planning to switch all of my scripts to use the DSS map soon, since I prefer it to the aypok map that some of them are linking to at the moment. —Aichon— 19:11, 21 April 2010 (BST)

Actually, shoot, I just realized that I messed that up. The world map links to DSS, but the suburb map links to aypok. I have no idea how I didn't notice that, but this one links to aypok on both of them. The DSS map is nicer, so maybe the first one is better, but I don't know how to have the suburb map link to DSS, since the urls use a different format than the redrum/aypok maps do. Sorry about that! This is why I don't write scripts. - Cam moo 19:29, 21 April 2010 (BST)

Heh, well, many thanks. I'll take a look at things once I get a chance and see what I can come up with (helping to operate a university lecture at the moment, so unable to work on scripts right now). Regardless of what does or doesn't work, pointing out the problem in the first place is massively helpful, since I don't personally use those links too often (I usually use the similar links in my GPS script). —Aichon— 20:08, 21 April 2010 (BST)

Misconbritration!!!!

You just posted on my main user page! :O:O:O:O:O:O --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:06, 21 April 2010 (BST)