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Spambits

Is it possible to limit page creation to autoconfirmed users? 19:37, 19 July 2011 (BST)

Yeah but Kevan has to do it. ~ _{19:50, 19 July 2011 (UTC)}

19:51, 19 July 2011 (BST)

There's discussion about it somewhere. I think the argument was that autoconfirmed users are those with 25 edits or one week under their belt and there are loads of non-spambit users we'd be fucking over by making them wait a week. I think there is a way to limit adding external links to autoconfirmed and probably even possible to whitelist certain domains (like urbandead.com). Still might limit some legitimate users and would still require Kevan's hand. I'll see if I can link you to the discussion. ~ _{20:04, 19 July 2011 (UTC)}

Well the discussion seems to be spread out through several policy discussion pages. The most recent one came just after the wiki software update (recent and relevant info). There was also three separate policy discussions specifically addressing autoconfirmed. Uhh, I'm sure your question is probably in the somewhere but short answer is it's ultimately up to Kevan. ~ _{20:31, 19 July 2011 (UTC)}

The answer is: yes, you can. The 'create page' ability is a seperate permission which could be un-assigned to the 'users' group and given to the 'autoconfirmed' group. However, I'd be unwilling to do that given the disruption it would cause newbies (why should they have to make 25 edits to a wiki they really aren't interested in just so they can create a group page?)

If we were going to do it then we'd probably have to create a new "page creation requests" page.

For the record, autoconfirmed groups were originally envision purely for use with semi-protection. 'Autoconfirmed' is granted after one week and 25 edits.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 03:55, 20 July 2011 (BST)

The only way I'd see to make it feasible would be to limit page creation in the main namespace to auto-confirmed users and then adding in a group namespace for all groups to occupy which wouldn't require auto-confirmed status. In that way people who create a wiki account only to create and maintain a group page wouldn't be hindered and no new requests page would be needed (only very special cases possibly). But I couldn't imagine all the page moves and broken links(unless redirects always happen with page moves?) that would be required *shudders* >.>        04:07, 20 July 2011 (BST)

Loosen the autoconfirm criteria then (I'm pretty sure it's do-able, given that it's one day on the big wiki). With the time issue reduced, 25 edits really isn't a lot if you edit your userpage, add links to your new group to places, and then create it. 04:09, 20 July 2011 (BST)

Considering most spambits wait a few hours to post their page and that's the only edit they make removing the time limit and just make 5 or 10 edits the requirement. Heck if you want to keep the purpose of the current auto-confirmed group just make a second group that you'll earn with very little effort (such as 5 or 10 edits) to thwart the spambits. You could even name it aptly "You not a spambit yay!"       04:20, 20 July 2011 (BST)

Second group is possible but requires some fiddling by Kevan.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 10:28, 20 July 2011 (BST)

It's 4 days on Wikipedia. The whole purpose of the autoconfirmed is to protect highly visible pages from vandals, so we can't really change that - it would make semi-protection useless.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 10:28, 20 July 2011 (BST)

It's doable, but quite complicated and so goodluck getting Kevan to do it.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 10:28, 20 July 2011 (BST)

I'm pretty sure that with the way Kevan configured our wiki during the update (which was likely nearly entirely the default configuration) changing group permissions has not been enabled for any level of user (including crat). Crats can assign permissions to specific user by adding or removing them from a specific group but they can't change the actual permissions. $wgGroupPermissions would need to be configured differently before we could go changing group permissions. ~ _{07:03, 20 July 2011 (UTC)}

Yeah, giving crats the ability to change group permissions is pretty unusual for most wikis.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 10:28, 20 July 2011 (BST)

Oh ok, sorry I thought you meant it was something we could do ourselves in your comments above. ~ _{14:18, 20 July 2011 (UTC)}

Nah, none of these usergroup changes can be done by us. At best, we might be able to convince Kevan to let the 'crats have the power to create/alter usergroups; but that'd still require a fair bit of fiddling from him.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 02:19, 21 July 2011 (BST)

What about one edit? People could just create a user page. --Rosslessness 10:32, 20 July 2011 (BST)

Yeah, we could. I am thoroughly against using the autoconfirmed group for that, though. We should set up a separate group if we're going to so it.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 10:55, 20 July 2011 (BST)

Doing that would work wonders; can only create a page after one edit. In the restrictive system message for the "sorry you cannot create the page you're trying to make you need X edits", just add a link to the Sandbox or something, easy enough. -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 14:47, 20 July 2011 (BST)

I'd be for a separate group. Maybe just "confirmed users". Some spambits would likely still find a way by spamming existing articles rather than creating new ones. We already see that in some cases though its more rare. I still think we should explore the option of limiting who can add external links. I think that's an option on the reCapcha extension we have. ~ _{16:07, 20 July 2011 (UTC)}

So Kevan forming a second group with the page creation permission to be earned with 5 edits would kill about all spambits. Then making it so users not in the auto-confirmed group have to enter a reCapcha to post an external link(s)? Sounds simple and solid to me.       22:34, 20 July 2011 (BST)

...are you kidding? I'd rather it be the way it is now, instead of spammers going: "Hmm. I can't make new pages, so I guess I'll just start overwriting currently existing pages." --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 23:33, 20 July 2011 (BST)

You figure they'd send updated bits to our little wiki? I'd say there are bigger fish to fry        00:52, 21 July 2011 (BST)

I'm not a programmer but I'd imagine spambots don't actually have anywhere near that sort of intelligence. P sure they are kamikaze bots designed to just make one page then make another if they havent been banned within the minute. If you find an actual spambot smart enough to have the line of thought you've just hypothesized above then tell me and I'll give it a medal. -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 00:54, 21 July 2011 (BST)

Actually the old bots used to do exactly that and it's not something that would even be code intensive really. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 19:03, 22 July 2011 (BST)

There is likely some human intervention involved with the bits. That's how they get past recapcha for account creation. Companies will pay people in china and african nations to solve the capchas. I think the going rate is 5 american cents per 1000 capchas solved. Would they pay the extra monies to solve the extra capchas? I don't know. We really don't know how the bits would react. I actually share Akule's concerns. ~ _{01:12, 21 July 2011 (UTC)}

If we were to go through with some change i'd recommend doing only the change to adding urls at first since that works across the board without changing permissions. If we're lucky and it snuffs the bits we don't need to change anything else.if we're not, then we can consider adding the new group. ~ _{01:27, 21 July 2011 (UTC)}

Yeah I was referring to the programmers/companies updating their bits :P Just be sure only users not in the auto confirmed group have to enter capchas. I hate those things and so does everyone else.       01:37, 21 July 2011 (BST)

Just to say: It is perfectly possible to use a piece of logic which says "if <can create page> = true; create new page" and then "If <can create page> = false; goto Special:Random; edit page" (I could even give you proof-of-concept code to do it). Whether or not most of the bots are that complicated is another matter (I'd guess "no", but that is only a guess). Adding a captcha when adding external links for non-autoconfirmed users is a setting in our captcha extension; it's a matter of toggling an option on. I doubt it will have much effect, though, given that the only bot which actually seems phased by a captcha would be mine.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 02:19, 21 July 2011 (BST)

That's because your not making your bot run the capcha by younto solve them. Even sophisticated black-hat linkspamming programs like XRumer supposedly use a mix of human and machine to do their evil bidding. I don't know if it would help either but as you said it would be easy to toggle on, it would work well with the autoconfirm settings already in place, and even sysops would have some control over what is allowed through whitelisting. It couldn't hurt to try it. ~ _{02:56, 21 July 2011 (UTC)}

True, and it's not worth the hassle to make it work: It only becomes a problem when I mistype my password and the captcha springs up. Yeah, I believe that's the easiest way to do it. Fun fact: The framework that I use is actually capable of solving several types of captcha on its own; reCaptcha just happens to be one of the types that is impervious to it.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 03:03, 21 July 2011 (BST)

Random thought: The best anti-bot measures are actually the ones that ask questions or give maths problems because they block essentially all auto-solving bots and merely leave the human-solving ones.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 03:06, 21 July 2011 (BST)

That might be something to request. I think it is also a fairly straightforward change. Would you mind doing the honors of requesting the changes fro Kevan. You seemed to have said the magic words last time. ~ _{03:11, 21 July 2011 (UTC)}

2+2=<>< will foil all bots! :D        03:24, 21 July 2011 (BST)

Bardiclife

Is there a way to figure out if the account "Bardiclife" that I'm 99.99% sure I created before this one is still around? I tried creating the account, but the user name exists, yet, I can't find it on the user hub or user namespaces.

Or...is there a way to change my username "TheBardofAwesome" to "Bardiclife" without creating another account?

Thanks. --TheBardofOld 18:21, 12 August 2011 (BST)

User:Bardiclife was created on 20 February 2010 at 01:49. If you provided an email address when you signed up, you can request that your password is reset. Otherwise, there is no way of regaining control of that account, unfortunately. ~ _{18:43, 12 August 2011 (UTC)}

Is there any way for a sysop to change the email address of that account or tell me what email address was used? I have about seven email addresses that I might have used. --TheBardofOld 19:05, 12 August 2011 (BST)

I'm afraid not. We don't have access to your personal information. I can tell you that it is not likely that you ever provided an email address on that account. Usually, when a user provides an email address, there will be a link on the side bar when viewing their userpages that says "Email this User". User:Bardiclife does not have that link. That's not to say you didn't provide an email and then unchecked the option preferences to allow users to email you, but that's not the most likely situation. I'm afraid that you probably no longer have access to that account. ~ _{19:26, 12 August 2011 (UTC)}

I think your best bet is to just try logging in with the username Bardiclife using passwords you think you may have used. If you just can't remember, click the "email new password" button on the login screen and check each of your email accounts. The login screen may even tell you if you don't have an email address on file. ~ _{19:39, 12 August 2011 (UTC)}

I've tried all of the passwords that I could think of-been changing passwords a lot and checked out all possible email addresses that I remember but no luck. Anything else I can do? I mean, I wouldn't mind having the username Bardiclife deleted. I just don't want to take that route if I haven't exhausted all of my options. --TheBardofOld 21:20, 12 August 2011 (BST)

Deleting users from the wiki isn't possible, I'm afraid. ~ _{21:37, 12 August 2011 (UTC)}

The only one who can delete accounts is Kevan, so we SysOps aren't able to delete accounts. Block them, yes. Delete them, no. If you're worried about your other account getting hacked and afraid the blame will be placed on you, you can always request that the other account get blocked. That's what I did for the account I created a few weeks before this Axe Hack account. I forgot the password and requested the other account be blocked so that it won't go on a spam spree and link back to me if it gets hacked. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 21:40, 12 August 2011 (BST)

I'm not so worried about the account getting hacked, moreso not being able to access my oldest account on the wiki. An account whose name isn't so...vain as TheBardofAwesome is. Nothing serious, just quirky stuff. --TheBardofOld 01:12, 13 August 2011 (BST)

I'd just say make a new account if you want a name change. TheBardofOld has a decent ring to it and isn't vain. Although I can't think of a word but a more archaic term might fit better. Or you could just pull a Thad and use an alias.        04:33, 13 August 2011 (BST)

BTW, it would be possible to change account names with the use of an extension.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 15:54, 13 August 2011 (BST)

Let's not even go there. Of all the wiki updates needed, that's really low in priority. ~ _{18:33, 13 August 2011 (UTC)}

Just mentioning it; this problem has come up a couple of times now. It'd also take about 5 minutes to perform.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 19:56, 13 August 2011 (BST)

Yeah I know. I just get nervous at the idea of requesting more wiki updates. ~ _{20:23, 13 August 2011 (UTC)}

Adding that ability would be a sign of *cue dramatic music*

	Misconbitragnarok
	This user can see the end fast approaching.

*gasp*        04:26, 14 August 2011 (BST)

Would anyone with the ability to lock accounts, mind locking the users TheBardofAwesome and Bardiclife from future usage? I don't want them to cause a problem, should someone else gain access to them and use them for evil. Thanks. --TheBardofOld 18:14, 21 October 2011 (BST)

Log into the wiki with those accounts and head over to A/VB and request a self imposed ban on them. ~ _{18:35, 21 October 2011 (UTC)}

Or just head over to A/VB and request a self imposed ban on them. As long as we're able to confirm they're you, it's no problem if you request it using your current account. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 18:38, 21 October 2011 (BST)

Done. I just don't have access to Bardiclife. Created it a long time ago and either didn't provide email or the email provided is void. --TheBardofOld 18:51, 21 October 2011 (BST)

Line breaks

So I finally getting around to updating my Juliette Reau page and I can't remember how to do line breaks like I did for my Derek Sutherland character. I did like the wiki cheatsheet described, but I just want a single line break inbetween any two paragraphs. I'm tired of fiddling with it so if someone could either show me how to do it correctly or fix it, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. --TheBardofOld 19:50, 3 September 2011 (BST)

Do you mean <br>-tags,
which
will
break
down
text
like
this, or do you mean four minuses (----), which create this

---

break? -- Spiderzed█ 20:00, 3 September 2011 (BST)

More so the
, but about half the line break space. I don't know if I'm just tweaking, but it looks like there's a big difference between the line breaks on my Derek and Juliette pages. --TheBardofOld 20:17, 3 September 2011 (BST)

The difference comes from using line breaks both in the code _and_ doubled <br>-tags

for Juliette, while there are just line breaks in the code

for Derek. -- Spiderzed█ 20:21, 3 September 2011 (BST)

<br> is the easy way to do it.

If you want a more adjustable space between your lines you can use<span style="line-height: (number)em;">

Sample Paragraph using <span style="line-height: 2.5em;">:

California is the most wonderful place to visit because of its variety of weather and its beautiful nature. (subject development) Visitors to California can find any weather they like. They can find cool temperatures in the summer; also they can find warm weather in the winter. They can find places that are difficult for humans to live in the summer because they are so hot. Or they can find places closed in the winter because of the snow. On the other hand, visitors can find the nature they like. They can find high mountains and low valleys. Visitors can find a huge forest, a dead desert, and a beautiful coast.(summary sentence) So California is the most wonderful place to visit because of its weather and nature.

       13:12, 4 September 2011 (BST)

NT Scan

If a user forgets to sign their NTscan is ok to sign it for them? Or is it better to post a reminder on their talk page? --Greenwarrior 08:46, 22 September 2011 (BST)

use the unsigned template {{unsigned}} that way it's not impersonation.--User:Sexualharrison10:02, 22 September 2011 (bst)

ok, thank you for the advice --Greenwarrior 09:58, 24 September 2011 (BST)

User Category?

can a user have his/her own category? and is that considered vain? i want my own category to shorten my watchlist. i have the template pages i've created, my sigs, images i've uploaded, and my alt pages...and i don't want to "watch" them anymore. →Son of Sin← 22:06, 25 October 2011 (BST)

Yep. You sure can. I don't consider it vain, just an easy way for me to keep track of images and pages I've created. ~ _{22:12, 25 October 2011 (UTC)}

excellent. thanks Vapor. and for some reason i think your name is Viper. if i've ever typed Viper, my bad. →Son of Sin← 22:51, 25 October 2011 (BST)

Timestamp

and while i'm here...why is the timestamp wiki markup an hour later than the server time? feels like i'm in 3 different time zones. →Son of Sin← 22:11, 25 October 2011 (BST)

You're talking about the CURRENTTIME Magic Word, right? I think the reason UTC is used rather than BST/GMT is because Magic Words are serve by MediaWiki and use Universal Time rather than one server in particular. UDWiki used BST/GMT because that's where the server is. ~ _{22:16, 25 October 2011 (UTC)}

You can use the LOCALTIME magic word rather than CURRENTTIME to get the server time, though. ~ _{22:18, 25 October 2011 (UTC)}

i use ~~~~~ which is UTC, i think, but has (BST) in it. 07:56 (current time) is the same as the server time and 07:56 (local time) is the same as ~~~~~. so if i use the CT magic word i'll be an hour behind now. →Son of Sin← 07:56