UDWiki talk:Administration/Arbitration/Saromu and Vandr vs Ioncannon11 and Kikashie

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Sonny Corleone and Vandr versus Ioncannon11 and Kikashie

UDWiki:Administration/Arbitration/Jon_Pyre_vs_Grim_S - He rejected every arbitrator and it seems that Jon took him to A/M over the issue and it was ruled non-misconduct. Anyone know if the hole was patched? While i'm here i might as well offer to arby.--xoxo 05:47, 29 May 2008 (BST)

That "hole" was never patched, and it never will be (since it's so difficult to define). In all honesty what people need is an arbitrator to stop people from pulling stunts like that. Too many of them are soft and allow users to get away with as much as they want (either by someone "declining" every arbitrator, or spaming the case so nothing productive can occur). - Jedaz - 06:16/29/05/2008
Yeah i thought that was the case but wasn't 100%, i don't think i've ever seen a hardline arby ruling...--xoxo 06:18, 29 May 2008 (BST)
There are times when stunts like that are a must to balance out the system. I call them personality conflicts.--Karekmaps?! 06:19, 29 May 2008 (BST)
A must? I mean yeah that was pretty fucking awesome when Grim did that (others probably saw it coming...but hey, i didn't) but i don't think they really balance the system.--xoxo 06:21, 29 May 2008 (BST)
It's more of the point that there are certain cases that shouldn't have been brought up in the first place and that's the only way to prevent it from turning into a witch hunt.--Karekmaps?! 06:23, 29 May 2008 (BST)
There are times which it is appropiate, others which are not. With the current climate of arbitrators it's the only way to prevent a stupid case from going through. But it's also a way to prevent a valid case from going through as well. An independant arbitrator (agreed upon or not), should decide whether or not the case has merits, if not throw it out, if so get the parties to agree on an arbitrator. If someone is being difficult then an arbitrator (one which isn't involved) may be chosen for them. From there the case would follow normal proceedings, posibly without one of the parties if they aren't participating in a constructive way. In my opinion we need strong arbitrators who won't put up with crap, whether or not thats from the person who brings the case, or the defendant. This is what should happen in my opinion, obviously it isn't and so AA gets clogged up with crap. - Jedaz - 06:40/29/05/2008
I kinda sorta addressed that on the case's header. If a case is a legitimate case it will end up coming to a solution, even if a third party needs to step in, or enough of them, to basically strong-arm the situation away from the bickering parties, it's preferable and advisable that it doesn't get let to go that far and someone actively tries to step in before that but one person refusing to address an issue in an actual article because they don't like this system doesn't mean they should be forced to use this system, there are other ways, but all of them involve a third party stepping in anyway. Which is funny, cause in all but a few cases I'd prefer dealing with the person who chooses to be the neutral party instead of the person we're forced to agree with in a manner where overreaction on an arbitrator's part results in a draconian punishment and possible banning.--Karekmaps?! 06:54, 29 May 2008 (BST)
^Long pointless rant, short version is I kinda covers it on the project page..--Karekmaps?! 06:55, 29 May 2008 (BST)

Applications for Testimony

As per this part of the proceedings, I will be accepting applications for testimony and the answering of arbitrator's questions for the remaining groups involved in the Invasion of Gibsonton. If your group has not yet had a representative who has been accepted, then you can apply below under the applicant list by using the following format:

#Example username - representative for [[example group]].

Applicant List

  1. Sir WV - A representative for the Philosophe Knights. --Sir WV 23:49, 1 June 2008 (BST)
    Accepted. --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 23:54, 1 June 2008 (BST)
  2. I can speak for the Dulston Alliance's involvement in this case. But, uh, since I'm already involved, would that be allowed? If not, Ottari (also a diplomat for the Alliance) would be able to testify on our behalf. --Kikashie Read the Dispatch! 02:26, 2 June 2008 (BST)
    Since you are in the case, you're already involved. I was looking for someone else who could speak for the DA who wasn't involved with the wiki page. --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 23:47, 3 June 2008 (BST)
  3. I can speak as a leader in the DA, leader of Metal Fox. My team was in the thick of things the entire time. Jaydepps 03:35, 2 June 2008 (BST)
  4. n00bert - A representative from FOXHOUND. --N00bert foxhound 04:17, 2 June 2008 (BST)
  5. Billy Club Thorton - I volunteer as a representative of Red Rum or as an independent PKer.  Billy Club Thorton  T!  RR  17:54, 2 June 2008 (BST)
    Accepted for independent PKer statement. --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 19:05, 8 June 2008 (BST)
  6. Lemonhead7t7 - Representative for the Gibsonton Defense Alliance.LemonHead7t7 *̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡|͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|]]| ̡̡̡ ̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡*̡͌l̡* Talk/PDA/Red Rum/MOB 21:32, 2 June 2008 (BST)
  7. Officer Murphy - Representative for Dead vs Blue. I'll testify but I can tell you right now this is a big waste of time. There is a simple way to end this...stalemate. This is a game and doesn't need a fucking court case.--User:Officer Murphy 01:55, 3 June 2008 (BST)
  8. Ottari - Diplomat for the Dulston Alliance (along with Kikashie) and a leader of the Pescodside Defense Alliance. I observed the events in Gibsonton firsthand, and would be more than happy to speak on behalf of the Dulston Alliance regarding the matter at hand. Ottari DA PDA NW Read the Dispatch!
    Accepted. --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 23:47, 3 June 2008 (BST)

Applicant Discussion

I got a question. Just how many damn DA members are we going to get here? Someone might as well shout "I'm Spartacus!" because this is what it's turning into. We're looking for intelligent testimonials, not a mob of people giving their podunk opinions on what happened. --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 04:24, 2 June 2008 (BST)

Quit acting like a retard and be somewhat professional for once.--N00bert foxhound 04:27, 2 June 2008 (BST)
Do you think before you type? So because two people from the DA applied, that is too many? I believe they are looking for more than one anyways. The point of applying is for many to apply and the best are chosen. Is that too hard to comprehend? Also, before you go on criticizing people's intelligence, you should learn a bit about them because I am sure one sentence doesn't tell a lot about a person. Jaydepps 04:34, 2 June 2008 (BST)
Actually, I'm counting five from the DA, at this point. --DTPraise KnowledgePK 23:19, 3 June 2008 (BST)
As many people who want to apply can, Akule will choose who he needs. I know the truth.Terra 23:28, 3 June 2008 (BST)
Exactly. --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 23:47, 3 June 2008 (BST)
In regards to the DA I was looking for someone from them who can speak for the alliance as a whole. If Ottari is a diplomat for them, then he can speak for them in the case. I'll look over the others and determine eligibility.--Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 23:47, 3 June 2008 (BST)
Okay thanks for clarification Akule, and DT if you look at posted dates at the time I posted that only two applied it was only two... Jaydepps 03:18, 4 June 2008 (BST)

In case you are curious as to the method I am choosing people, I am trying to maintain a balance between the two sides in people testifying (there are quite a bit of groups involved on the survivor's side), while giving the smaller groups a chance to let their voices be heard. --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 19:11, 8 June 2008 (BST)

I'd like to point out that the GDA is a member group of the Dulston Alliance, and, although they are based out of Gibsonton, other Alliance groups (such as Foxhound/Metal Fox) had a MUCH larger impact during the battle. --Kikashie Read the Dispatch! 22:11, 8 June 2008 (BST)
They are? Well then. We should fix that. Why are they listed on the page twice then (once with the DA and once on their own)? --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 22:25, 8 June 2008 (BST)
Hmm? Are you talking about the battle page? Frankly, I didn't write it. --Kikashie Read the Dispatch! 22:30, 8 June 2008 (BST)
Yup. I was talking about the battle page. It seems it requires a lot more edits. --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 22:45, 8 June 2008 (BST)

Testimonial Conflict

Why is it that 3 out of 5 people to testify are on one side of the case while 2 are on the other? That seems in favor of the survivor side of the conflict. --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 23:13, 1 June 2008 (BST)

Oh, those are the required members. I will accept some independent members from the PKer side of things. Provided that all of the smaller survivor groups apply, we could have at least three from DORIS, Philosophe_Knights, and Red Rum? --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 23:32, 1 June 2008 (BST)
Mainly I want to get a brief idea of individual experiences from people, ask a few questions, and address some issues that have been raised. One thing is to try and get links to proof of kills from both sides in a public forum of some kind for review by all. The idea of being granted access for me is a nice thing, but it's not worth a hill of beans if everyone can't see the proof. --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 23:45, 1 June 2008 (BST)
That's the problem. A lot of it was posted on everyone's respective forums and irc. Kikiashie threw a hissy fit because I refused to waste my time digging up every screenshot. I know that even if I did bring up every link he still would not listen because "u didt'n rech ur gowl of kikin owt gavrel!!1! lol" --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 23:48, 1 June 2008 (BST)
The proof thread can be moved to a public portion of the DA forums for the duration of the case. I said that I would give you access to it because it would take less time, but it's no problem to move it. --Kikashie Read the Dispatch! 02:34, 2 June 2008 (BST)
I'd rather get AIDS then go to your forum. --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 03:35, 2 June 2008 (BST)
Thats funny... because you've been to our forum before. --Kikashie Read the Dispatch! 04:17, 2 June 2008 (BST)
I know. I looked for the alternatives to going there but no one I know in UD has AIDS to give me so I had to settle for going to your forum. --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 04:23, 2 June 2008 (BST)
Clearly you didn't check the pool. --Kikashie Read the Dispatch! 05:08, 2 June 2008 (BST)
I did. --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 21:32, 2 June 2008 (BST)

Also, shouldn't we wait until Ioncannon responds before we move along? --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 23:55, 1 June 2008 (BST)

I'm not moving along yet. I am setting up the next part so that the people who are involved can get an idea of how we will proceed next and to give those who I'd like to call to testify the time to prepare any statements they will want to make. --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 23:59, 1 June 2008 (BST)
Ok. Just wondering because I haven't seen any initiative from Ioncannon to edit the page and wanted to make sure he did it so that he can never call it unfair that he wasn't able to say his side. --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 00:02, 2 June 2008 (BST)
I clarified what I am doing under the next section. I figure if the overall goal is to hash out a wiki-worthy history event, we are going to have to get all sides to agree on what happened and have proof that it did if we are to put to rest any complaints. --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 00:05, 2 June 2008 (BST)
Arby's isn't really to make everyone agree. It's to make them give up their side. I cannot and will never be able to make Kikashie, Ioncannon, or Garviel ever agree they lost. I can through arby's make them give up however, which is what I'm doing. I cannot teach a filecabinet to do anything but sit there. I cannot teach a bird to solve calculus. And I certainly cannot teach a trenchcoat what losing is in UrbanDead. --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 00:14, 2 June 2008 (BST)


Ioncannon gonna make his statement?--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS DORISFlag.jpg LOE ZHU | Яezzens 22:37, 3 June 2008 (BST)

Prolly not. --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 04:14, 4 June 2008 (BST)
Pretty clearly not, at this point --Druuuuu OcTRR 05:51, 5 June 2008 (BST)
likes to cause problems but can't accept the consequences, surely this won't help the case.--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS DORISFlag.jpg LOE ZHU | Яezzens 11:59, 5 June 2008 (BST)
hums the theme to 'Jeopardy.' --Vandr 17:28, 5 June 2008 (BST)
He has until late Saturday evening/Sunday morning to post. If he hasn't posted in that time, that will mean a week has passed since he last edited the wiki. He will then have forfeited his opening statement and we will move on. I believe that is fair enough as he knew full well that he had two arbitration cases. Regardless, he can still post a statement during the next section, but not having posted an opening statement will reflect badly on him in his arbitration. --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 00:21, 6 June 2008 (BST)
That's fair. --Kikashie Read the Dispatch! 00:49, 6 June 2008 (BST)
Times up. --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 02:11, 8 June 2008 (BST)
Could we just drop him from the case? Because you know he's going to come back right after we start the rebuttals, and we'll have to do this all over again... --Kikashie Read the Dispatch! 02:45, 8 June 2008 (BST)
No. He's part of the case. If we drop him then he won't be held to the decision made by Akule at the end of the case. He stays. --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 03:46, 8 June 2008 (BST)
He can still participate in the remainder of the arbitration, but I have noted that he is willing to stir things up, but not participate in a way to defuse the situation. --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 18:58, 8 June 2008 (BST)
Indeed it is. As such, he loses his opening statement. --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 18:58, 8 June 2008 (BST)

Garviel and the Imperium

I have checked in to the Imperium's board and found that Garviel might have quit UD. If he has, we will have to forgo his testimony. I have also found that BrotherMcBeaner isn't around much, and that the Imperium is splintering apart, so it might make getting someone to testify on the Imperium's behalf a bit harder. --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 20:44, 8 June 2008 (BST)

Wouldn't all of that mean they lost? If the war led to their disbanding shortly after I mean.--Karekmaps?! 21:31, 8 June 2008 (BST)
Well, the DA was involved as well. I'm going to read their responses and we can go from there. From my understanding, the Imperium broke down over some difference of opinion. I don't know what that opinion was, so once I find out, I'll see how relevant that is to this case. --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 23:26, 8 June 2008 (BST)
They're still a group. Only thing that changed was that Max left. Long story short: Max posted a list of Imperium names and profiles on the Imperium Must Die wiki page, under the name Delta33. It was discovered by the Imperium, Max was kicked out, and he took a few Imperium members (who were loyal to him) with him. Other than that, their forum Admin has gone "missing", so they can't grant access to new members. The Imperium hardly "disbanded". --Kikashie Read the Dispatch! 23:35, 8 June 2008 (BST)
That's an important thing to know. I'm going to have to see if there is any other senior members who are still in the group, who know more about the strategy behind the situation. --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 23:36, 8 June 2008 (BST)

I think this belongs here as well:

Garviel on Akule's talk page
First, in response to your subpoena I am informing you that I did in fact leave Urban Dead for reasons having nothing to do with the war and for the following reasons:

1.) I got sick of the stupid drama, bullshit, and penis replacement that is the norm in Urban Dead by my experience. I've seen less dick-waving in High School locker rooms than on here and I didn't like it with people who at least would say it to someone's face and in person.

2.) The blatant hypocrisy on the part of MANY individuals in this game would make George Bush blush. I have no desire to associate with such individuals in any fashion. The base betrayal by individuals that were felt to be loyal persons, specifically the case of User:Max890 betraying and leaving the Imperium was a nail in the coffin for me.

3.) This game has been a source of stress in my life and I don't have any desire to add to said stress with the other stresses of preparing for the GREs, looking for work, and getting ready to move to a different city full-time and be living on my own shortly. Compared to dealing with the whining of a pathetic honorless troll like Sonny Corleone said concerns greatly outweigh the desire to remain. I don't play a free game to put up with that kind of shit, I was more looking for something fun but I guess that's hard to find in Urban Dead.

4.) My leaving had nothing to do with the Invasion of Gibsonton and before the announcement went out I was already getting somewhat bored with UD as is. I decided to remain until the end as I refuse to back down in the face of a loud-mouthed thug like Sonny. Furthermore, I left of my own volition for the aforementioned reasons and was NOT asked to quit by the Imperium as Sonny demanded.

Second, that is the only testimony I wish to give in the arbitration case. I have no desire to be dragged back into this fever swamp for any reason especially considering how easy it is for Sonny and his pets to lie through their teeth and for it to be taken at face value.

Third, as a final statement on the matter, I find that so many people have no problem with acting in such a reprehensible fashion shows the true content of their character and that so many people have no problem with acting in such a fashion shows how truly vile so many people involved in this game are. The anonymity of the Internet gives people the freedom to act as they please online, I feel that said anonymity is the strongest argument in favor of acting in an aboveboard, honorable, and decent manner as the only person who genuinely knows the actions of yourself are you, and if someone can live with being a dick for no better reason than they can to someone they will never meet it truly shows what a sad, pathetic, honorless sack of shit they truly are. That so many people openly and willingly engage in such actions and there is no effort by the Urban Dead community to redress this rot shows that not only are the perpetrators truly vile people but that those who refuse to step in and act are just as bad. As Dante once said, "There is a special place in Hell for those who remain neutral in times of great moral crisis." While I do not believe in Hell, I can say with certainty many users involved in Urban Dead will be getting a nice trip after they shuffle off the mortal coil to that lovely part of Helheim where they will be nothing more than ragged ghosts living in a frozen wasteland of darkness, misery, and suffering to be gnawed upon by Niddhog for all time. There are those few who are in fact decent, honest, upright people but they are grains of rice weighed against a ton of steel considering how many of the more reprehensible breed prowl this place.

May those of you who act in such a fashion fear the day you go to meet your Maker, for I do not forsee for many of you a good end. As for me, at least my heart is clear and my honor satisfied.

Since I wasn't involved in the war, but have been taking an interest in the history... despite who's conditions... weren't some of the conditions "make garviel quit" .. he did... "destroy the imperium".. destroyed. But they are claiming victory?--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS DORISFlag.jpg LOE ZHU | Яezzens 23:23, 8 June 2008 (BST)

I'd have to agree. Even though he doesn't wnat to admit we were the reason he still quit and that was our "goal". Kikashie is retarded enough to think goals mean victory so now I won in Kikashie's eyes. But Kikashie has already stated he doesn't believe it means victory for us, further proving my point that Kikashie is a dumb fucknugget who will keep changing his argument to avoid defeat. There is no other way to say this but...you're dumber than Alphy and Secruss combined. Someone should make a template for you saying this. Further more, Garviel says we were not the reason for this but we created the drama that forced him to quit. My one post on Brainstock created an in game war and a meta-game-wide anti-Imperium sentiment to spread. I claim full responsbility for destroying the Imperium and driving another player away from the game. Garviel's name shall be written among the list of people I chased away. I am an asshole. --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 01:11, 9 June 2008 (BST)

While we're on the Imperium, it no longer exists. The drama that started with Garviel quitting for EVAR and the Inquisition and their pals leaving (not to be confused with the NecroInquisition who'd already left because of how thoroughly awesome the Philosophe Knights are at accomplishing their goals) has ended with the imperium being disbanded and the Imperium forums being nuked from orbit. Dunno about you guys, but I don't see why the Invasion of Gibsonton page needs arbitration any more. Turkmenbashi 12:14, 10 June 2008 (BST)

From what I can tell, they've broken into two groups over conflict of leadership. The thorians and The Emperors Hammer. Anyone feel like looking into it deeper than that? --Kikashie Read the Dispatch! 21:14, 10 June 2008 (BST)
You forgot The Unforgiven. --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 21:46, 10 June 2008 (BST)
Based on their forum, it looks like they are fracturing into several smaller groups. I counted at least four, but I didn't look at their forums. --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 02:23, 11 June 2008 (BST)

I resent this slander of my name. There was no conspirisy or betrayal, we mearly left the Imperium. One section was giving us grief, so we posted a list of all their profiles. An eye for an eye, unfortunatly a little too late for it to have any effect. --Max890 01:34, 13 June 2008 (BST)

Ottari: Big Liar or Biggest Liar?

By and large, the suburb was in pretty decent shape. All of the buildings were powered and barricaded, save for the relatively wide-open cathedral in the suburb's Southwest end. - We're PKers, not zombies. We don't smash down genny's and barricades.

I personally slept in Gibsonton for three evenings, with my group membership prominently displayed, - I slept there for a week with DORIS. What does that mean? Nothing. You weren't being hunted those three days jackass.

The Imperium of Man's Black Templars seemed in good condition, with relatively few undead, - Bad lie, very bad lie.

and we were able to coordinate in bringing several PKers to justice. - Several is not all. We had a lot, you guys had a total of 10 (according to Kikashie but it wouldn't faze me if at least one of you are lying).

Seriously...how do you breathe? --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 21:24, 10 June 2008 (BST)

When did I say 10? We had over 60. --Kikashie Read the Dispatch! 22:02, 10 June 2008 (BST)
Another important thing to consider, by the time the DA entered the picture, I and some others had already dispersed to other suburbs in search of Imperium that ran away. --Druuuuu OcTRR 22:58, 10 June 2008 (BST)
My mistake, it was Jaydepps, here. --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 01:11, 11 June 2008 (BST)
My mistake, I thought you were talking about kills. We had around 15 people in Gibsonton. --Kikashie Read the Dispatch! 01:45, 11 June 2008 (BST)
And tomorrow it'll be 20 then 100 and then OVER 9000!!! --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 02:02, 11 June 2008 (BST)
To tell the truth I'm not surprised Ottari could sleep in Gibsonton without getting shot, cuz I'd never heard of him. The only DA group that is on my UDTool is the Friends of the Featherstone Library, and other than that I was shooting people from the DA whose names I recognized (Kikashie, n00bert, ect). So for a relative unknown to say he made it several days without being dead-ed, well, it's certainly feasible.
I don't know what he's smoking about the Black Templars, though. The only way they could have been in good shape with few undead is if they were several blocks from the suburb. --Vandr 14:31, 11 June 2008 (BST)
I'm happy to have been noticed, otherwise I would sulk.--N00bert foxhound 04:26, 12 June 2008 (BST)
Kikashie has never claimed we only had 10 kills. We had 63 at our final count, and roughly 20-25 members of the Dulston Alliance in the suburb at any given time during the course of the conflict. As you'll note Sonny, I wasn't finished commenting yet on the status of the suburb, and was leading in to the meager queues at revive points as well as several pockets of Imperium's Black Templars (roughly 12 members in all) I spotted on my initial run through the suburb. Ottari DA PDA NW Read the Dispatch!
You are absolutely right. Kikashie never said you guys had 10 kills. That's because I never said he did. Jaydepps however said you guys had at most 10 MEMBERS (HONK HONK HONK) there. And you are a snake and a liar. --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 20:41, 12 June 2008 (BST)

Discussion over the ruling

I'm glad to see a relatively speedy and very fair conclusion. Thanks for your hard work, Akule. --Banana reads Scoundrell for all of Yesterday's News, Today! 22:11, 15 June 2008 (BST)

Indeed. Cheers, Akule. -Ocular Druuuuu 22:15, 15 June 2008 (BST)
Psst. Nobody mention it - the case was never actually completed. Let's all sneak away before someone notices what's missing!
<sneak sneak sneak>--DTPraise KnowledgePK 01:27, 19 June 2008 (BST)
I didn't mention the completion as I wanted both sides to basically see what I had to say and see the logic behind it. I figured it might take a bit of discussion to get everyone on the same page. --Akule Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™ 01:30, 19 June 2008 (BST)

It's not jumping the gun if nobody is aware. --Banana reads Scoundrell for all of Yesterday's News, Today! 04:28, 19 June 2008 (BST)

Not this shit again @ Kikashie. --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 02:33, 20 June 2008 (BST)

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