Suggestion:20080224 Walking the Rails

	Edited Suggestion
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20080224 Walking the Rails

Kolechovski 22:08, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion type
New building/movement type Suggestion scope
Malton (especially the railway stations Suggestion description
Here, read this (when you've got the time, now moved from link straight to this page):

"Walking the rails Timestamp: Kolechovski 17:01, 5 February 2008 (UTC) Type: Addition. Scope: The railway lines. Description: Suggestion-use the monorails from the railway stations to travel (by walking) The Details-So we all see the empty railway stations around. But what about the railways? Sure, no trains are running since the evacuation, but that doesn’t cause the rails to magically disappear, does it? I assume since there’s a platform involved, that the rails through the city are high-level monorails. Well, I suggest adding another layer, allowing anyone (survivors or zombies) who gain access to railway stations to go walking the rails that connect the stations.

This would be a major change to the game, as many of the empty streets would now have a second level added to them (essentially like buildings), and a connecting route would have to exist between all the stations. The railway would be out in the open, but above the streets. Anyone in the streets can’t see you above (their view is blocked by the railroad), though people with binoculars are high enough to see you when looking through them. You can also see everyone in the streets nearby from looking over the railings (although you can’t see anyone directly below you or under the other sections of connecting line, due to the railway blocking your view).

You can walk the rails (at normal travel speed for your survivor or zombie) wherever you go and take linking routes if you wish, entering other railway stations linked to them from the platforms. At any time while on the railway, you can jump down onto the streets (though this is suicide for any survivors like jumping out a window).

This allows survivors a very interesting form of exploration, and it saves them from any menacing zombie hordes below. However, this is quite dangerous at the same time, as any zombies that successfully invade stations nearby can find anyone sleeping on the rails and eat them. Zombies could also use this for a sneak attack by making the streets look safe, yet have hordes of them up on the railway waiting to strike. This could clearly be interesting for both sides to play with, eh?

I imagine adding the building-type element won’t be as hard as making the sections so that you can’t see the people/zombies under the monorail line, which I imagine wouldn’t be too difficult, but would take time to create the coding for. Overall, I’d like to hear not only the thoughts on the idea balance-wise, but also some estimates of the coding involved from experienced coders. If there’s a chance it would be tougher or too lengthy to implement, please don’t kill it just on that basis, unless it’s something horribly nasty that you know Kevan wouldn’t touch. I’d rather have this go to Peer Revived and assessed by Kevan for true knowledge on the implementation thing than risk it failing solely for implementation fears that might not turn out so bad. Thanks for your thoughts. Of course, if it ever would get through, it would be a ways off being implemented, given the size of Malton.

Discussion (Walking the rails) You're saying give out Freerunning to everything then...sure It'd be a nice little addition and it seems fun especially for hordes such as the Feral Undead, the Ridleybank Resistance front, and even the Big Bash, but that gives them extreme paradropping skills and seems a wee bit out of genre, a good idea, but another zed buff...--Chaplain Drakon Macar 17:16, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I prefer the sewers/underworld idea in PR. --PdeqTalk* 17:18, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

It's a fresh idea, I won't lie to you there. It's just that in theory, I don't really see this being a part of the game. It would need to only be placed onto of streets to stop some problems in the game however, it's a big change were talking about here. --Kez0 17:25, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I should elaborate that it's still not Free Running. Since there are likely no wires connecting the monorail to other buildings, you have no way to access those. If you were to try to move to a building, you'd splat on the ground just outside of it. You can't gain any free access to buildings with it.--Kolechovski 17:38, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

So literally just walking rails between rail stations?--Chaplain Drakon Macar 17:41, 5 February 2008 (UTC) Yep. As explained in the detailed paragraphs above, it does carry some advantages and disadvantages for use. It would certainly widen the scope of exploration, attacks, and defences, if ever implemented to the game.--Kolechovski 17:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC) PERFECT! I am backing this then, as it gives use to an obsolete area too...--Chaplain Drakon Macar 17:54, 5 February 2008 (UTC) Interesting. Not sure if I'm for or against it. Essentially, the entire rail line is one large building that is also a tall building, and can't be free-run into or entered except at the rail stations, where you enter via large building effects. One problem I see is, what if you want to move from a rail station to a street that has a rail passing through it? Probably you would have to go to some intermediate block first, though that's no huge problem unless the layout is such that the rails cover all / most of the adjacent blocks. Also, its gonna be impossible to lay the rails out so they pass only through empty blocks- so you need to figure out what all the effects should be when a rail and building occupy the same block. ‌‌‌ Swiers 19:10, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I suppose you could say that the rails pass behind the building, so on a buildings external description you see disused rail tracks lay behind the building, you see no way to get to them from here, thus adding flavour and stopping people from saying they can't get to them at the same time. The main problem I see is to the extent of which this will increase gameplay, as in essence you are drastically increasing the number of squares in the game, allowing much more sparsely populated areas. Still, this suggestion would be good for people as in essence you aren't hiding as such, but to aviod this seeming so, I think you should have descriptions from the ground about 'you see a mass of shadows above you' the size of the shadow determines the size of the group of people/zombies (but you are unable to tell the difference from down below). Also if this were to be implimented, I think that there should be a chance that you fall off the monorail while asleep increasing with the amount of people in a single square of rail. With people brushing past you, it is feasible that humans and zombies alike lose their footing and fall off, hurting themselves. This would stop crowds from gathering all at once in one place as they would in essence be pushing people off and somewhat limit gameplay so that no extreme 'hide and attack' strategies can be used. Acoustic PieTalk To The Pie EBC, LMS. 21:21, 5 February 2008 (UTC) To adress some of the replies and to expand on the idea further, I've done a few quick MS Paint sketches on the approximate way this would exist. First, it would indeed be impossible to use the simple "empty street" mechanic since there are not open routes very much. However, given that buildings likely do have some room between them, I, too am thinking that the ling simply runs behind whatever buildings there are for the most part. First, here's a look at an approximate idea of where it might run. It likely wouldn't be so jagged in real life, but I just stayed with the straight line thingy to help show exactly what blocks it might be running through. I also included a diverging route in this example, because they'd likely have switches for multiple tracks for the different branches that go off throughout the city.

http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=monoraillinepq0.png

In addition, I drew a closeup view of a single block where a railway station has a platform, and how it might look there. Remember that the line is elevated, so the station must be accessed in order to reach the line, and since it runs above the wires connecting buildings, it can't be Free Run to or from. Also assume that it is just high enough and far enough away from tall buildings that suicide jumpers couldn't reach it as well (at least for now).

http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=monorailblockkb5.png

I also support the description of the monorail line above. However, I think the idea of pushing sleepers off is a bad idea for several reasons. First, there's no guarantee that the person is truely asleep (they could simply be between turns). Second, it'd be nothing but mass homicide, as a group could come along and kock everyone else off. rather, if anything, due to limited room, those who try to move onto or off of a heavily occupied square should either face failed move attempts, a risk of falling off trying to manuever around the crowd, or perhaps a combination. Dead bodies can still be dumped at any time, BTW. As for the shadows and such, maybe. I also don't know if there should eb a seperate set of barricades for the platform or not, or exactly how'd they work if they were made seperate. For now, I've intentionally left a certain amount of vagueness, and am just focusing on teh basic idea. If it passes and is seriouly considered for implementation, then we can figure out exactly what set of dynamics go with it at that time.

One last note, I don't think that survivors would overall spread way out onto the lines, because there is that constant risk that zeds may have accessed it from somewhere. Overall, it doesn't compare to the usual EHB safehouses, so most survivors would probably stick to those for sleeping. There are some exceptions. Basically, I believe there'd be some spread among survivors and zombies onto the rails (and that's okay given how heavily populated some parts of Malton are). I don't however, see it being severe to cause heavy changes among population densities.

BTW, I can't find that peer reviewed thing abotu the underground subway idea. It looks like the PR page has changed radically. Can someone find that for me? Thanks.--Kolechovski 23:45, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I lived in Chicago for some years, which has a (rather famous) elevated train line (which is also a subway line in many places). It would be VERY easy to "free run" from the Chicago elevated lines into neighboring buildings, or even just enter them normally. You don't make a train line any higher than it NEEDS to be, which generally means maybe 20 feet high at most. If train lines pass next a a building, maybe it would make sense to allow free run acces to at least some of them (maybe 1/3 of buildings thus affected in the new implementation). That would add some variety to the train lines, and also keep them from being like an exitless maze you could easily get trapped in. (Zombies would have the "exit" of jumping, so don't need the free-running option). Obviously, all rail stations would be normally enterable from the train line, without free running. ‌‌‌ Swiers 05:23, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

WOW, that's really NEW.For now, it seems a well thought idea and I'd support it if it was going under voting. Haven't seen such elevated rails in person, but in Mafia:City of Lost Heaven game, there were some.I guess that's a really probable idea that these would look the same. But i'd suspect that if there would be possibility of someone/something entering my safehouse's 1st floor, I'd board up the windows allowing this. So, I think that it would be safe to stretch the mechanism of barricading - the overall building's level would also transfer to those windows on 1st floor, if the Free Running off the rails would be considered at all. Personally, I see the reason of many kill votes in including Free Running possibility - people would moan about nerfing zombs and buffing survivors by offering them one more entrance with barricades which would stop zombies.--James beckerson 12:24, 7 February 2008 (UTC)"

There are also comments you can read, too. I believe the monorail might still be high enough not to be Free Run to from standard buildings, but tall buildings could reasonably be an exception. However, I'd just like to submit this idea in its general form for now. If it is seriously considered and passes peer review, we can then develop the details about Free Running, barricades affecting it, etc. For those who've never seen monorails, here's a basic look at one. The heights vary, but being a populated city, I'd assume this is high enough to be out of reach from standard buildings.

http://www.lightrailnow.org/images/kuala-lumpur-monorail.jpg

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Keep I can certainly see this as adding a new layer of strategy. Monorail fans unite!!! Mattiator 23:22, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
2. Keep - This would really change the game, but it would make it a little more interesting.--Jamie Cantwell3 01:12, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
3. keep - Owning from the sky. I accept. Just as long as you cannot shoot the ground from the monorail. That would ruin the entire thing.-doc crook 02:47, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
4. keep - I can definitely work with this idea, excellent. the element of surprise would definitely bring in a new era of strategizing, not just for zombies, but for humans too (rail watchers). I digress, good job, keep. -Richard Rose 07:20, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
5. Keep - Its a zed buff but i think its worth it. --Carnexhat
6. Keep - Based on premise if not details. --Heretic144 04:50, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
7. Keep - Would change the rules of engangement a good bit and allow some more tricky plans for survivors and zombies alike. I want it --Bethazer

Kill Votes

1. Kill - It's certainly creative, but I just can't see the need for a Malton Monorail. Rick Best 22:18, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
2. Kill - As Rick--Studoku 22:46, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
3. Kill - As I said in the discussion. Also, put the discussion on the talk page, not in your suggestion. --Pdeq^Talk* 00:31, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
4. kill - this is juist too frickin' long to read! but i get the gist of it and it is basically just another version of multi-level buildings and/or sewers, etc. look up the sewers suggestions and see for yourself... not necessarily a bad idea, but we've been here before ... sorry. --WanYao 05:47, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
5. kill - while i agree trains would be cool this is just too complex and doesn't do a whole lot. If something like this was to be implemented i would rather sewers. If a train suggestion were to be implemented i would like to see train travel returned to the city in some areas when the power stations are powered, not that that has anything to do with this...--xoxo 06:34, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Not a complete suggestion - so therefore it's spam. (You need to put the full text of your suggestion on this page, not link to it. There's no control over how the linked-to content might be edited / archived.) --Funt Solo ^QT 22:48, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
2. Spam - On Funt's reasoning (yes, I almost died of shock that I wrote that as well!). -- Iscariot 01:03, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
3. Spam - An incredibly garbled mess. --The Hierophant 03:18, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
4. dupe - I seem to remember a suggestion almost exactly like this one.--'BP^Tmz 04:59, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
5. Spam - Almost entirely incomprehensible. - Headshot Hal 05:06, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
6. Spam - Wow, my first spam vote. As Funt, and Wall-O-Text.  Billy Club Thorton  T!  RR  05:23, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
7. Spam - Clean it up. And, if I can read it as I think, it just another version of Free Running. No thanks.--Pesatyel 06:24, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

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