Suggestion:20080621 Passive Zombies

	Removed
	This suggestion has been removed from voting due to the fact that, following an evaluation of all the votes cast so far, it is obvious that this suggestion needs quite a bit of work. It will be moved to Talk:Suggestions until such a time that it can be either improved or deemed unsalvagable..

20080621 Passive Zombies

Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 07:01, 21 June 2008 (BST)

Suggestion type
Balance Change.

Suggestion scope
Zombies, Mrh Cows

Suggestion description
OK, I think we can all agree that 10AP to ressurect a zombie is quite frankly a bit on the unrealistic side. The only in-game reason I can think of for a revive to take as much 'effort' as leaping from 10 buildings is that the zombie resists the revive as much as it can.

But, if this is the case, why do zombies waiting for revives resist?

Thus, I came up with the idea for 'passive zombies'.

In each user's 'Settings' panel, there is a new setting called 'Zombie Stance', with two options: Passive or Agressive. A zombie set to Agressive takes 10AP to revive, but can use attacks and so forth.

A 'Passive' zombie, however, cannot attack humans until the stance is set to Agressive. The up side is that a Passive zombie only takes 2AP to revive.

This way, combat revives remain nerfed, but you don't feel the pressure when running a revive point.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. [insert standard author keep vote here] --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 07:02, 21 June 2008 (BST)

Kill Votes

1. Unfortunate Kill I just don't like it. Not sure why. --Nny The Person 07:14, 21 June 2008 (BST)
2. Kill - coming back from death shouldn't be that easy. --Pdeq^Talk* 07:16, 21 June 2008 (BST)
3. Kill - It just sounds like a crappy idea. --Officer Dick Trickle 07:34, 21 June 2008 (BST)
4. Kill - Boo. Play as a zombie once in a while you wimp.--Insomniac By Choice 07:39, 21 June 2008 (BST)
5. Kill - Overpowered. --Explodey 10:38, 21 June 2008 (BST)
6. Kill - Game-ruining -- 
   •  Nevin McAvoy 
   •  (talk) 
   11:01, 21 June 2008 (BST)
7. Kill - Nope sorry. --Pvt human 11:34, 21 June 2008 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam - Game breakingly spamtastic. Allows you to cycle through mrh cows at a revive point FIVE TIMES FASTER. Of course, searching inclusive and things, its going to less effective than that, but a very fair estimate would be an increase in the revive rate of the city by a factor of three. It is already cheaper to revive a human than it is for a zombie to kill them, this entirely wipes out attrition of human numbers, which is, quite frankly, the only thing zombies have going for them. Do you hate zombie players or are you simply an idiot? --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 07:43, 21 June 2008 (BST)
   This is all for reviving as it is at present, before the buff being suggested above
   Some numbers: It takes a maxed zombie 35 ap to kill a human with bodybuilding (Actually, a sliver more, but its its less than six thousandths of a percent more, and so can be ignored). This is assuming they found the human on the streets, or teh door was open. Im assuming no walking, just to demonstrate just how big the imbalance is here.
   It takes a human, at the rate quoted on the useful items page of 12.4% about 8 ap to find a new syringe. (8.07 ap to 2 dp). Most RP's are close (as in next to) an NT building so we'll assume 2ap transit there. Another 4 back (For the entry point), 1 for the DNA extractor, and 10 for the needling. You end up with, on the part of the reviver, a total expendature of 25 ap spent. Now lets add the revivee. I doubt there is anywhere in malton more than 5ap from a revive point (5ap is a touch over a suburbs radius, and many suburbs have multiple RP's, but we'll assume thats the case. Using the average of 1-5 we have 2.5 on average to get to a revive point walking. Now we are up to 27.5ap. Lets add the two stand up ap for the human slain. Thats now 29.5. Even factoring in getting back indoors (2ap, most reveive points are next to an entry point), you have a zombies 35 pure combat AP being outperformed by the combined total 31.5ap spent by both reviver and revivee (Also, this is assuming the reviver doesnt sit at the revive point and revive multiple zombies in which case you can cut out three sets of transport ap, for which you just multiply the 25 by however many revives you want, say, 4, then subtract three sets of movement AP from the sum, which brings you down to 82ap on the part of the reviver, and 6.5 on the part of each revivee which takes it to a grand total (on average), in an efficient revive trip of 101.5 human AP to counter the expendature of 140 zombie combat AP. If you want to get even nastier, then we can add in zombie transit and barricades and the AP difference between the two grows very fast. Human AP efficiency is dramatically increased if one or more revivers are using DIRT:NAP tactics, as they eliminate several days worth of moving ap and can revive even more people than normal. I am assuming humans have lurching gait and ankle grab for this, which many humans actually do, or can buy before they stand up. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 10:29, 21 June 2008 (BST)
   It should be noted that based on these numbers, in order to make reviving less effective than zombie combat AP expenditure, you need to increase the revive cost from 10 to 15ap. That would be no fun for anyone. Instead, giving the zombies a base 10% bonus to hit in their attacks would do the trick. But this place is far, far too trenchie to allow for that. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 10:49, 21 June 2008 (BST)
   Because WanYao gave me permission: I know i disreagrded a few things, like that not every human has 60hp, and a 50HP human takes about 29.2ap to kill, rather than 35, giving a decent assumption based on what you see as you walk through the city, about 75% of survivors have the bodybuilding skill, so a simple calculation yeilds an average overall to kill humans as about 33.5ap per kill on the average survivor, please note im still assuming maxed zombies everywhere, and i have no desire to change that assumption), as well as bthe consideration that not all humans have the ankle grab and lurching gait skills (These are typically the very low level humans. For most players these skills are a high priority and exp is banked for when they die to ensure it after teh completion of a single conmbat tree if its elected to be taken). Given that the majority of killed level 1 survivors simply restart thier characters instead of advancing (Explaining why we have so many level 1's and the higher level characters never seem to really grow terribly much), far from 100% will ever seek a revive or play on (Resulting in a net 0 ap to revive for humans, which in itself would counteract the argument that not all humans have the two zombie mobility skills). Furthermore, it takes about 100ap to bring down the highest level of barricades i have seen (EHB + 3), and give every zombie three actions to move there and walk inside per person killed. That is, per efficient revive run, an addition of as many as 112 extra zombie ap on top of the part where they simply slaughter people, which until now was all i gave actual numbers too (Though, in my expereince, a typical zombie raid would kill about ten people, so its basically an extra ten ap for cades on top of each individual kill score, so about 44 total ap per zombie per person is a good estimate, as opposed to the 35ap i gave earlier, taking into account the weighting for mixing in the non bodybuilt). The end result is that the picture i painted prior to this post is actually far nicer than it would be if i included all factors, for which definitive statistics simply do not exist and i have been forced to use my best guesses based on my observations during play.
   In summary:
   GRIMCH SMASH! --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 12:05, 21 June 2008 (BST)
   Damnit, he removed it while i was writing >:( --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 12:08, 21 June 2008 (BST)
2. Spam - Grim said it all, except that Blake is one of the biggest fucking idiots that I've had the pleasure of never meeting. -- LABIA on the INTERNET ^{Dunell Hills Corpseman} #24 - |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ^TMG 07:58, 21 June 2008 (BST)
3. Dupe - I'm pretty sure we've seen this before. It was a bad idea then and still is. --Pgunn 10:05, 21 June 2008 (BST)
4. Spam - Yeah, this is a pretty bad idea for a number of reasons. If someone doesn't want to attack survivors as a zombie they don't need something like this to stop them. Also they'd be essentially gimps and subsequently delicious targets for those inclined towards mrh cow tipping. And revives are cheap enough if you use your AP efficiently. If you need an "in game reason" to spend 10AP on a revive: leaping from ten buildings is hardly brain surgery. --Amber Waves of Pain 11:23, 21 June 2008

   True, however sticking a needle into someone is hardly brain surgery either. --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 11:46, 21 June 2008 (BST)

5. Spam - It's bad enough that people even actively seek revives. Zombies are supposed to kill the living, not kindly stand around for injections. Also, ditto to everybody who said "game breaking."--Jiangyingzi 11:20, 21 June 2008 (BST) (BST)
6. Spam - The text of this suggestion is my justification, jesus fucking christ. I haven't read any other votes... Don't need to. This is one case where I say: Grim, use every weapon in your fucking arsenal on this bullshit... I have your back. ;P --WanYao 11:45, 21 June 2008 (BST)

   Seriously, Blakefiredancer ... You're new, sure. But you've been here and on the Development page and hangin' on the wiki quite a lot. You really should know better than this, I mean, "Game-breakingly spamtastic" just doesn't cover it... sheesh... --WanYao 11:52, 21 June 2008 (BST)