Developing Suggestions: Difference between revisions

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====Discussion (Beer/Wine Change)====
I think you've never been on the receiving end of a heavy strike with a wedge of steel if you think a few shards of broken glass should ''ever'' do more damage than a fire axe. This is stupid. And before you give me any lip about hitting just right to nick an artery and cause massive bleeding, remember that UD does not include critical hits, sneak attack, backstab or whatever else you might call precision damage. --[[User:Mold|Mold]] 04:39, 7 December 2009 (UTC)


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Revision as of 04:39, 7 December 2009

Suggestion Navigation
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Developing Suggestions

This section is for presenting and reviewing suggestions which have not yet been submitted and are still being worked on.

Nothing on this page will be archived.

Further Discussion

  • Discussion concerning this page takes place here.
  • Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general, including policies about it, takes place here.


Please Read Before Posting

  • Be sure to check The Frequently Suggested List and the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots before you post your idea. You can read about many ideas that have been suggested already, which users should be aware of before posting what could be a dupe: a duplicate of an existing suggestion. These include Machine Guns and Sniper Rifles.
  • Users should be aware that page is discussion oriented. Other users are free to express their own point of view and are not required to be neutral.
  • If you decide not to take your suggestion to voting, please remove it from this page to avoid clutter.
  • It is recommended that users spend some time familiarizing themselves with this page before posting their own suggestions.
  • After new game updates, users are requested to allow time for the game and community to adjust to these changes before suggesting alterations.

How To Make a Suggestion

Adding a New Suggestion

  • Paste the copied text above the other suggestions, right under the heading.
  • Substitute the text in RED CAPITALS with the details of your suggestion.
{{subst:DevelopingSuggestion
|time=~~~~
|name=SUGGESTION NAME
|type=TYPE HERE
|scope=SCOPE HERE
|description=DESCRIPTION HERE
}}
  • Name - Give the suggestion a short but descriptive name.
  • Type is the nature of the suggestion, such as a new class, skill change, balance change, etc. Basically: What is it? and Is it new, or a change?
  • Scope is who or what the suggestion affects. Typically survivors or zombies (or both), but occasionally Malton, the game interface or something else.
  • Description should be a full explanation of your suggestion. Include information like flavor text, search odds, hit percentages, etc, as appropriate. Unless you are as yet unsure of the exact details behind the suggestion, try not to leave out anything important. Check your spelling and grammar.

Cycling Suggestions

  • Suggestions with no new discussion in the past two days should be given a warning notice. This can be done by adding {{SDW|date}} at the top of the discussion section, where date is the day the suggestion will be removed.
  • Suggestions with no new discussion in the past week may be removed.
  • If you are adding a comment to a suggestion that has the warning template please remove the {{SDW|date}} at the top of the discussion section to show that there is still ongoing discussion.

This page is prone to breaking when the page gets too long, so sometimes suggestions still under discussion will be moved to the Overflow page, so the discussion can continue.


Please add new suggestions to the top of the list

Suggestions

Beer/Wine Change

Timestamp: Verance 04:05, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Type: Game tweak
Scope: Humans
Description: Just today, I found my first bottle of beer, and drank it. Searching around, I found another, and decided "It would be pretty funny to go outside and smack a zombie in the face with this..." so I stepped outside, found a zombie, and swung at it. Perhaps because I was a bit tipsy, I missed the first time, so I took another swing, and struck it, causing three damage. I was sad that my bottle broke, the beer splashed on the floor, and that was all. Stumbling back into the Henning arms, I wondered what would happen in a world where the bottle only broke some of the time, after all, it didn't smash on my head when I gave it a try...

In all seriousness, I am suggesting this - Make the bottles of beer and wine break ~%10 of the time, and cause 1 additional damage, because really, sharp glass breaking onto your body tends to hurt. Multiplying this by 1000 is not an issue. While it is true that it does more damage (when it breaks) than a fire axe, you have to take into consideration the 25% accuracy rate, compared to the fire axe's 40%. It is still more logical and better to use the fire axe than a bottle of beer that causes one extra damage 10% of the time. (2.5% for 4 damage, 25% for 3 damage, 75% for miss, vs 40% for three and 60% for miss).

So to the community, what do you think?

Discussion (Beer/Wine Change)

I think you've never been on the receiving end of a heavy strike with a wedge of steel if you think a few shards of broken glass should ever do more damage than a fire axe. This is stupid. And before you give me any lip about hitting just right to nick an artery and cause massive bleeding, remember that UD does not include critical hits, sneak attack, backstab or whatever else you might call precision damage. --Mold 04:39, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Beards

Timestamp: Cookies and Cream 03:54, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Type: Clothing?
Scope: Humans
Description: This suggestion implements a new thing, Beards. Beards grow in levels. These levels are: No Beard, Fuzz, Scratchy, Bearded and Shaggy. A Beard grows every 5 server resets (do we have server resets?). If there aren't server resets, then your beard will grow once every 5 days Kevantime. Beards can be turned off through your settings page, for all you women and unmanly men. Beards can be cut through a new item, Hairclippers, which reduces it down 1 level. I was going to make it wire cutters, but thought they'd be unsuitable for cutting beards. Having a beard appears in your profile description, next to the face description. You can't wear a mask if your beard is Bearded or Shaggy.

Discussion (Beards)

Just was looking through Clothing Suggestions when this struck me. Cookies and Cream 03:55, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Where's Anime (and his beard) when he's needed? Nothing to be done! 04:19, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

hands break though the barricade

Timestamp: --Kralion 15:11, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Type: Flavour
Scope: zombies
Description: When zombies began attacking barricades,there could be a 10% chance that their hands break through it and it will be visible to the survivors inside.The zombie would recieve the message you attack the barriacade.Your hand breaks through the barriacade and is visible for the survivors inside.For example You are inside the Shears Building. The building has been very heavily barricaded.You see a few hands hands come out from the barricades.When 2-5 hands have breaked through survivors will see few hands 5-8 some hands 8-11lots of hands11+ A hell lot of hands.This will just add flavor to the game and will sure scare those survivor inside.You can still attack the barricades with your other free hand with no penalty.Taking the hand out of the barricade costs 0 AP.There could be an option that asks you if you just dont want it to happen.The zombie hand cannot be attacked.

Discussion (hands break through the barricade)

Sounds like useless flavor that will cause more effort and problems that it will create fun; I ask this suggestion the same question I ask many others: Why? Also, people will want to attack the hands. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 16:58, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

X-Ray Vision. -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 18:57, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

That too. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 19:11, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Breaking through barricades is already painful enough for zombies, so getting their hands caught would just make it more annoying. Also, how does this really work? Can the survivors on the inside only see the hands if they're still stuck in the barricades? If not, then do they see hands that came through the barricades within the last hour? The last day? Since they last logged on?

I'm also opposed to it for the x-ray vision issue, since it lets you tell how many zombies are beating on the barricades. Perhaps a better way to implement it would involve not saying how many hands there are and only give the message whenever the barricade level actually decreases. Changing it to work that way yields scant additional information to survivors, but it definitely goes in a different direction than this suggestion was originally. —Aichon—

RE:k,just added something that wont tell you the EXACTLY the number of hands that there are--Kralion 01:36, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
Congratulations on leaving your suggestion completely broken and unworkable in almost every way described after your revision. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 01:55, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

I like the flavour, but I think the in-game translation of it would work better as an attack skill (10% chance of claw hit w/o tangling on last active survivor with each successful attack on the barricades) than as just flavour. Nothing to be done! 20:29, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Except that would be barricade negation. :P This suggestion just isn't good...--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 21:42, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Two hits out of a fully-barricaded building isn't that bad, though, is it? Nothing to be done! 21:45, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Maybe, but I don't see any kind of negation for either side passing a vote.--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 21:51, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Item sorting

Timestamp: Diavolone 06:47, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Type: Feature of ease
Scope: Everyone with items
Description: What I noticed in this game was that when you got a lot of items, pistols, ammo etc, its hard to keep control of it all. One little easy implemented feature would have been to sort the items alphabetically or something. Or by type, but alphabetically is easier to implement. That way all the pistols would be in a row, and all the pistol clips in a row, and the same with medkits, and shotguns and everything else. Seeing how many you have of each item will be much easier, and I think that a lot of players would appreciate this.

Discussion (Item sorting)

This was actually suggested, here at least, like a week ago. We also have this.--Pesatyel 06:58, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

I think it was a month or two ago, but yeah, we just talked about this. Nothing came of it in the end though, and I think the idea got cycled, so we may as well discuss it again. I recall Iscariot had an issue with people changing his interface around, and there was the usual smattering of people saying that this is just a Greasemonkey issue, rather than an actual interface issue. Personally, I'm all for alphabetizing it.
As an aside, since people will say you should just use a script for doing it on your own, here's one such script that does a bit more than just alphabetize. —Aichon— 07:20, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Dupe. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 13:47, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

I reckon this suggetion isnt a dupe. Its a Dupe-A-Saurus Rex. Cookies and Cream 12:29, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Adrenaline shot

Timestamp: --Kralion 22:23, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
Type: new item
Scope: survivors
Description:Basically, the adrenaline shot will give you 5 AP when injected they can only be injected once per day to prevent abusing of it,making it overpowered. This would be useful when walking into a safehouse...and find it infested with 20 zeds,those 5 AP will probably save your life. Adrenaline can be injected to any other person that hasnt been injected already.

When you have already injected adrenaline and try to inject more will trigger the message you have already injected adrenaline today,too much is very dangerous will waste 1 AP but the adrenaline shot will still be there. Trying to inject to somebody that has already injected will trigger the message you notice that the person has already injected adrenaline,better dont give him more.. Adrenaline shots can be found in necrotech buildings (maybe they were experimenting with them?) with a search radius of 2% and in hospitals with a 4%.After an hour,a message will trigger saying you fell the adrenaline wear off,you suddenly become tired and lose 5 AP points,if the person has 0 AP he wont start regenerating past 2 hours and a half (5 AP).

Discussion (Adrenaline shot)

Only if one hour later you automatically lose 10 AP, and it works in the negative if applicable. (example: you have 5 AP when your hour is up, you fall to -5. Also, you can't go over 50 AP, so any AP you would have gained over 50 is lost.-- | T | BALLS! | 22:29 1 December 2009(BST)
RE:I gotta seriously think about this,but maybe the AP lose would just be 5 less AP.You urgently need AP,you inject,then lose 5 AP.Sounds good to me,what do you think guys?.
Make it so that you can be injected more than once a day, but for every shot you get over 1 in 24 hours you take 5 damage as well. Then if you die from it it says: "[name] died from a drug overdose."-- | T | BALLS! | 22:42 1 December 2009(BST)
RE:Interesting,maybe we could do that,but then the adrenaline shot could not be applied to other people beside you because it would be an effective killer,and besides in a mall siege,people could keep injecting adrenaline and other people will heal them,doesnt sound to balanced to me if you ask me.What do you think?--Kralion 01:04, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
THIS IS NOT LEFT FOR DEAD. This is Urban Dead. -- Emot-argh.gif 22:37, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
RE:So just because it looks similar to the left 4 dead 2 adrenaline shot (I got the idea from it indeed) it cannot be applied?.--Kralion 01:04, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
As a zombie player, this clearly is over balance, your helping the survivors but putting the zombies at a negative, we lose AP because of headshots as is, now effectively a survivor could use 55AP while a zombie gets 44ap. That is extremely unbalance. Not to mention you clearly aren't thinking of PKers who would use adrenaline and clear out buildings faster and better, then you get more people butthurt about pkers, then there already is. OVERBALANCED STOP DISCUSSING IT, kthanxbye. -- Emot-argh.gif 01:16, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
RE:I am just gonan discuss about PKers,5 AP 1 day arent gonna make a HUGE difference.An average high lvl PK may kill 3 people 1 day.5 AP arent gonna make him kill 6 more.
Have you ever traveled amongst a semi-ruined suburb were over 1/2 the people are 30 and under. Its easy picking, you also never addressed the fact that would be 55 AP for a survivor versus 44 for a zombie. This is still overpowered and thus NO! NO GOD DAMN ADRENALINE! -- Emot-argh.gif 04:13, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Template:TPolice-- | T | BALLS! | 04:42 2 December 2009(BST)

Will someone make a THIS ISN'T FUCKING LEFT FOR DEAD template we can start smacking down these idiots with? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements

Left 4 Dead
This is not fucking Left 4 Dead.
You're welcome. payment is one (1) internets. Nothing to be done! 23:01, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Template:TPolice-- | T | BALLS! | 04:42 2 December 2009(BST)

I like Zombie Lord's nerfs to this.--Pesatyel 04:10, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I like how Zombie Lord has made so many suggestion's that upon hearing he made another, it becomes an automatic "NO." If you think I'm joking check his contribs everything he suggests he removes as the author [1]-- Emot-argh.gif 06:30, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Well most of it was his shitty attitude and generally trolling nature. He seems to have calmed down some.--Pesatyel 06:50, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

I swear this is a dupe, but I don't feel like looking for it. Maybe after I've had coffee. --Maverick Talk - OBR Praise Knowledge! 404 06:33, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

It's definately a dupe... I cannot be bothered looking either. --Honestmistake 08:58, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure it is, and I'm also pretty sure I wrote the first version. However, if I did, I'm definately sure I never took it further than DS. Either that, or I didn't record it --Blake Firedancer T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T. 09:18, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Quick search found this from way back. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Suggestions/RejectedMarch2006#Adrenaline_Syringe Not the same but does have a fair few similarities. --Honestmistake 10:13, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
RE:okey guys,I added zombie lrod suggestion of losing AP after injecting adrenaline.--Kralion 10:26, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I liked the way Nexus War handled this. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 10:59, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Nexus War's amps worked because hospitals were the bottom of the barrel when it came to healing items. Sure, hospitals are still lower tier than malls, but when there's really only two healing items in the game (one of them revive, which is arguably different), everybody'll search hospitals instead. Whereas NW had all sorts of food, regeneration, innate healing, passive healing, specific status ailment and cures, etc.

This is a lot closer to Shartak's mushroom juice, if anything. Thing is, it works in that game because all sides are relatively equal. There's no logical zombie equivalent (unless somebody brings up that old godawful "eat self" suggestion :P), so it really shouldn't be in the game. Zombies are players too, etc etc. RinKou 19:23, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget Beer and Wine --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 19:38, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Actually, hospitals are top-tier for FAKs now. You raise a very good point re: availability – this suggestion is one-sided and needs to consider zombies, because zombies are the ones with the AP shortfall! ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 13:51, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

In my opinion, the search rates are a bit high. They should be about half of what they are now. Otherwise, no complaints. --AORDMOPRI ! T 21:27, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

RE:Done.--Kralion 22:51, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Patrol/Prowl

Timestamp: --Honestmistake 15:35, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
Type: new skill & action
Scope: survivors and Zombies with MoL
Description: There are always certain folks you just don't want messing with the radio/generator/safehouse/revive line. Currently you can't do much to stop them if you are not online so I am suggesting a new Skill that would be co-ordinated through the settings page. If implemented this Skill would allow you to designate a single action that you wish to protect against; once set it would remain until you came back to change it (like descriptions) "Patrol" would be an addition to the existing Military list while Prowl would be a free zombie skill requiring MoL and "Patrol". Prowl effectively just makes Patrol a crossover skill but i suggest adding it as a freebie to make it appear on a zeds profile)

Actions you may select (via a dropdown) would include:

  • Attacking Generators
  • Attacking Barricades
  • Building/adding to Barricades
  • Attacking Radio's
  • Broadcasting
  • Setting up decorations (Why you would I can't imagine but what the hey?)
  • Creating Revive Syringes
  • Necrotech scanning
  • Reviving
  • Ruining (dubious about this one but its probably only fair)
  • Repairing
  • Free Running
  • Any others that people think might be worthwhile?

Once an action is selected you then choose a target:

  • "colour" contacts
  • all contacts
  • all survivor
  • all zombies



What Happens: Once set up, a new action will appear in the normal game panel, For a cost of 2AP you can begin a prowl/patrol of the area. Once anyone at a location is defending the area the description will include "One", "Several" (up to 10) or "Lots" (10+) "of survivors/zombies are patrolling/prowling this area"... it will not say what part of the area they are defending though. Should anyone from your target list attempt the action you are currently patrolling for you will attempt to prevent their action. The chance to prevent the action is 10% + 1% per character defending against the same action, no more than 10 characters can defend the same target and attempts to stop freerunning are at half chance due to the number of potential entry points.

  • For example; If Burt, Ernie and Kermit are trying to stop Cookie Monster attacking the generator they have a 13% chance of success. If they are trying to prevent him freerunning this would be 6% (6.5 rounded for simplicity)

Should an action be prevented by the patrol appropriate notification will be given, "Prowling Zombies (list) drove you away as you tried to revive 'survivor x'" etc....

The patrol/prowl will end as soon as AP regeneration takes you back to a positive number or you are damaged by any attack. As soon as the patrol/prowl ends the character will lose 4AP (taking the total cost to 6) This reflects the idea that your character has been awake and active (in a limited fashion) and is now very tired. Final note on this point is should any survivor who is infected take damage everytime their patrol is triggered? I can see reasons both ways so would appreciate ideas.


Discussion (Patrol/Prowl)

Clock.png WARNING
This suggestion has no active discussion.

It will be removed on: 9th December

To a large extent this is the heavily reworked Defend skill i put forwards last week.--Honestmistake 15:35, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

I honestly think the idea just won't work, period, but for the sake of discussion, let's talk about a few of the larger flaws. Actions that can't normally be observed by other characters should not be able to be protected against (e.g. necronet scanning, making syringes, free running, etc.), since that just doesn't make sense. The idea is also severely underpowered, both in terms of AP spent and the chance of success. Essentially, you're saying that for 6AP, I have a 10% chance to stop someone from engaging in a 1AP activity (which may or may not even take place), which they can attempt to do as many times as they like. I.e. it's a useless skill. And speaking of skills, requiring a human skill in order to use a zombie skill is a definite no. Either make them stand-alone skills that can be used independently of each other, or choose one side for the skill. —Aichon— 18:41, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, I will try to answer those points in some sort of order...
  • I think one of the main reasons that you don't see those actions is because it would be pointless screen SPAM... I mean its not like you could do anything with the info? With this however you are actively choosing to look out for such actions and try to prevent them.
  • As for underpowered, I was rather worried that it may be the opposite. Sure you pay 6AP to patrol for 1 hour and have a small chance of stopping your chosen nemisis, but its potentially possible to trigger this a million times in that hour which is why i set the chance so low. With team work that chance would soon build up to a pretty reasonable level.
  • To all intents and purpose I have made this a human skill, its a crossover if zombies also have MoL but the fact that they get prowl as a freebie is just to show it in their profile if scanned and to make it easier for the server to assign the right flavour text (ie "lots of zombies are prowling")

I do see where you are coming from when you say you don't like this but i really think the game needs a bit more complexity to keep it from stagnating and I think options like this might be the way forwards. --Honestmistake 08:57, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

As Aichon. --Maverick Talk - OBR Praise Knowledge! 404 06:37, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Actually, further question. If zombies are prowling and watching for people attempting to build barricades, how would this skill work with the current barricade blocking function? --Maverick Talk - OBR Praise Knowledge! 404 11:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
I think it would be best if while prowling they contributed only to this rather than both... Not even sure how the current blocking feature works though so it may be possible/fair to check both seperately or even to add them together? Does anyone have the actual chances of blocking? I don't think it is high cos i never seems to work at the low level cade stage. --Honestmistake 13:47, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

DEFEND

Timestamp: --Honestmistake 12:23, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Type: new action
Scope: survivors and Zombies with MoL
Description: There are always certain folks you just don't want messing with the radio/generator/safehouse/revive line. Currently you can't do much to stop them if you are not online so I am suggesting a new option that would be available through the settings page. If implemented this would allow you to designate a single action that you wish to protect against; once set it would remain until you came back to change it.

Actions you may select (via a dropdown) would include:

  • Free-running into the location.
  • Attacking Generators
  • Setting up/fueling Generators
  • Attacking Barricades
  • Building/adding to Barricades
  • Attacking Radio's
  • Broadcasting
  • Setting up decorations (Why you would I can't imagine but what the hey?)
  • Creating Revive Syringes
  • Necrotech scanning
  • Reviving
  • Ruining (dubious about this one but its probably only fair)
  • Repairing
  • Others that people think might be worthwhile.....

Once an action is selected you then choose a target:

  • "colour" contacts
  • all contacts
  • all survivor
  • all zombies
  • all.

Finally you would choose a weapon... any weapon including newspapers.


What Happens: Once set up, a new action will appear in the normal game panel, For a cost of 5AP (more/less?) you can activate your selected "defend" criteria. Should anyone from your target list attempt the action you are currently defending against you will then make a single attack with the chosen weapon. If this attack causes damage the action defended against will fail (1AP/IP hit no item loss, free running fails should be subject to potential falling damage as if falling from a ruin though!) the target will receive a message saying something like "Arson Lover tries to prevent you damaging the radio by attacking you with an axe, they hit you for 3HP and foil your action" or "Arson Lover tries to prevent you damaging the generator by attacking you with an axe, they miss and seem winded by the attempt!" While "Defending" you may not regenerate to above 45AP. "Defense" will end when it is triggered, when you spend AP on any other action or if you are injured. All players defending a given action will be triggered by it but regardless of actual numbers no player will be reduced to less than 1HP and it is only the action that triggered the defense that will be prevented.



Discussion (Defend)

Clock.png WARNING
This suggestion has no active discussion.

It will be removed on: 9th December

A heavily reworked take on a previous discussion.... I take all the blame though :) --Honestmistake 12:23, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Wouldn't this be a huge pain to code and program? Also if I multiply by say...50..50 people will "defend" a genny, if one player would try destroy the genny, well that would be quite fucked. Also if you defend a barricade, and a zombie attacks it from the outside, you somehow manage to defend it by attacking through the barricade, or wa?--Umbrella-White.pngThadeous OakleyUmbrella-White.png 12:51, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
In order:
  • coding is not really an issue for us... I think it even says that in the guidelines? However setting it up should be very easy as its just going to put a few more boxes in the settings page and a flag on the character when active. How that flag links to the action is (i would think) going to be the more problematic but it can't be that hard to do can it?
  • multiplied by a million (or even 50) and this could easily get very messy but remember it just cost 250AP to do (or 5,000,000!) and cannot kill the target no matter how many people do it!
  • The action would have to be one done in your sight. Attacking the barricade from your side of it, free running into your location etc...

I suppose it might be advisable to put a limit on how many folk can be defending at a time though as 50+ folks watching a generator might be a bit OTT :) --Honestmistake 13:57, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't this effectively give people more knowledge than they normally have? For instance, normally, people can weaken the barricades without others in the building knowing who weakened them, so long as the barricades aren't actually broken through. Or they can attack the generator in the same way. As for ruining, people already stop that simply by being in the building, so I don't see a reason to have it as an action you can defend against. —Aichon— 15:10, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

The thing about not noticing barricade/generator attacks is that you really should have the option to notice. Of course there are often very good reasons to attack the barricades as a survivor so perhaps the option to make this only apply to dropping below VS might be a good idea. As for the blocking ruin, I include that purely because some zombies may wish to try to prevent it... They may be rotters in a revive clinic or just Mhr cows waiting somewhere convenient for their group to find them or even just survivors who die defending their mall and stand up as a zed with only a few AP left. --Honestmistake 16:36, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
That's a big boost for life culting when again, multiplied by a billion. 30 undead mallrats "defending", while one zombie tries to ruin the corner. Vice versa for repairs. --Umbrella-White.pngThadeous OakleyUmbrella-White.png 16:50, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
So the ruining zombie gets mauled to 1HP and fails his 1AP action. Hardly upsetting as all it cost him is 1 click while each of those billion cultists just spent 5AP each to slow his effort. Remember this only works for the next action so as soon as triggered it needs an active player to re-click defend for another 5AP.... Just not going to find this chain reacting very often in my opinion. --Honestmistake 18:14, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
You know how they say opinions are never wrong? That doesn't apply here, your opinion is wrong. Everyone will use this, mostly for the same kinds of targets, and the only times you won't get a chain reaction like this is when you're in a mostly-deserted block, or when everyone's auto-attack has already been burnt up. --Mold 21:30, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Most players are too selfish to even barricade so how many do you think will be willing to spend AP defending against a single action for 10% of their daily AP? The only real problem would be zergers, but as it would require them to log on lots more than i suspect is normal it would be of little real use to them so i can't see it being a huge problem! On the whole i think this would mostly result in G'kers and Pker's and Combat Reviver's getting a nasty shock every now and again. --Honestmistake 23:14, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Maybe most players are too selfish to even barricade shared buildings, but hear them scream for blood if someone even gives a genny a dirty look, let alone actually wipes them out. Oh noes, we can't search up shotguns and shells as easily now, KOS KOS zomby spys PKers traitors blah blah! Or watch them blatantly ignore other players' needs for gear and shelter, and build their own little EHB fortresses of doom to protect their own asses (rather than, say, cade an NT or the corner of the mall they're leeching from), and then freak out when somebody brings the cades down to VSB++ so other people can actually come inside. This would still get a lot of use from those idiots, just not on anything constructive for the rest of the survivors. --Mold 04:13, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Auto attacks are bad mmmkay? -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 21:18, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

cari is right; this suggestion sucks. Basic D&DN violations going on here. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 22:05, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
1st; you cannot "violate" D&DN as they are only recommendations and they are pretty broadly expressed guidelines at that! 2nd. How is it an auto attack? You have selected a pretty specific target and payed 5AP for the privilege... should no relevant target present itself then you have burnt those AP for no reason. Sure the attack you make is triggered automatically if/when the criteria are met but so is every other attack (it fails if the target has moved!) --Honestmistake 23:14, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
How is it an auto-attack? Hmmmm, I walk into the location, you aren't online, your character automatically attacks me. Would you like a diagram? Yeah, only if the criteria are met, because no-one free runs into malls.... -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 23:42, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Free running is the biggest problem I see with this as its the only action that carries any real penalty for the victim, in that it could easily leave them stranded outside! However, I personally think that free running is waay overpowered and could use a serious nerf anyway which is why I put it on the list. As for it being an auto action is it really such a huge problem? Manufacturing syringes is (in effect) an auto search for a very high cost, placing a generator affects other players and provides an automatic bonus on things even after you log off, Infection is an auto attack triggered by anotherplayers actions and feeding groans result in effects after you have logged out too. OK so none of those is exactly the same as my suggestion but they are all things that add to gameplay and have effects which are not immediate, do not necissarily benefit the actual player and cause harm (or inconvienience) to the opposition. Put simply.... what is wrong with the concept? --Honestmistake 09:20, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Infact... exactly which of the various D&DN guides does this even contradict? --Honestmistake 23:18, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
It doesn't contradict d&dn, however it is mentioned on frequently suggested. Also, I think it's just overly complicated for a simple game. - User:Whitehouse 23:56, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Multiply it by a billion, and you can violate D&DN by stupidly ignoring blatant warnings telling you that these kinds of ideas are fundamentally flawed. Would you prefer I called them "blatant ignorances of freely and obviously given common sense that's been tested over many years"? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 23:59, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Multiplied by a billion zombies are unstoppable.... perhaps we should ban them? Almost everything in game has the potential to be overwhelming in mass use so that guideline makes very little sense. What this suggestion aims to do is give new options to both sides, those options are expensive in terms of cost to use and have little real effect (as you need to be active to reset your defense) The only one of the actions which are ever likely to cause any real grief is free-running because as presented it can leave the victim outside, in the case of just about every other action the worst possible outcome is that you are injured and waste 1 AP! --Honestmistake 08:25, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Multiplied by a quarter billion, barricades shut out the billion zombies completely. Stop being stupid on purpose. This is a bad idea, and no amount of snark on your part will change that. --Mold 12:13, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Not actually trying to be 'SNARKY' just replying to the normal shit folk throw about it failing because of some randomly invented guideline. You can't multiply this by a billion because it inherently stops doing anything useful after a certain point. It's a bad idea you say.... justify don't just complain! --Honestmistake 20:45, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
okay, that reads back as pretty damn snarky. So i ask without malice, what exactly do you think is so obviously bad about bending those suggested guidelines? --Honestmistake 00:10, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
You've got a clearly overpowered suggestion that can only be justified with a "Just not going to find [the massively overpowered bit] very often in my opinion." But you will -- useful things get used when they're noticed, everything that can be abused will be, and there are a lot of players in UD, which tend to gather in herds. Multiply it by a billion is an attempt to get you to stop and think about what a suggested change will actually do in play. It's an exaggeration, sure, some people can't take a hint unless it's applied with a 2x4, they need the obvious to be grossly exaggerated to notice it. Remember that assumed rarity doesn't balance an overpowered implementation. Either a large portion of players go out of their way to get it and it's not rare anymore, or you arbitrarily limit how many can do that and wind up setting up an elite class and discriminating against everyone else. --Mold 04:06, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I see you've addressed some of the common problems with auto attacks (AP spent while logged off etc.) but the result is that it's too complicated. --Explodey 01:12, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree that setting it up is complicated (well as complicated as choosing a new set of clothes anyway) but once set it hardly changes the actual interface at all. Can you think of anything to make it less complex or is it just the uncertaintly that it would add to certain gameplay styles that is the problem? --Honestmistake 09:07, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Rather than having the drop-downs on the settings page and an activation button on the map page, maybe you could use the same format as the "attack" button, with two drop-downs beside it (if it would require more than two drop-downs then reduce the number of options to make it fit.) Having it on the settings page takes too many clicks (Go to settings page; Select target to defend; Select weapon; Select group to defend against; Back to the city; Press defend button: 9 clicks total.) --Explodey 18:43, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
I did think of that but figured that it would clutter the main page a little too much. Also the ability to select all 3 items separately is pretty important to functionality and would easily work in a similar way to clothing selection (at least to set up). Remember too that once set the selection is stored it only needs to be changed if you want to change your options. --Honestmistake 22:11, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
You don't need all combinations. Why would you let some characters GK or RK but not others? The same applies to most of those actions (with the exception of Free Running.) Reviving, scanning and syringe manufacture should not be in there at all. Adding features just for death cultists seems wrong. And defending against broadcasting would mostly be used for trenchie in-fighting and would be a distraction from the human-vs-zombie war. Remove all that and you're left with: Stop red contacts free running, stop blue contacts free running, stop everyone free running, stop everyone barricading/de-barricading, etc. You could get it down to fewer than 15 options and combine the group & action selection into one drop-down box. --Explodey 12:57, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
I agree that its unlikely that you would want to defend your radio/generator from only some folk but the same cannot be said for most of the other actions. Reviving, scanning and manufacture are all very important things from a zombie point of view and this suggestion aims to include them... anyway deathcultists et al are already part of the game and suggestions should not be unreasonably tailored just to prevent them gaining any use. Reducing the number of drop downs but increasing the options in each would work well though.--Honestmistake 14:35, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

As Honestmistake said, they are GUIDELINES, not set in stone rules. That is what these discussions are for. I don't think the "attack" should do damage. Your just stopping the person from performing the action. Thus no "weapon selection" would be needed exactly. Or, at best it could require a melee weapons (maybe it could be a "special" ability of the hockey stick ala the pipe or crowbar?). The only problem is Free Running which, I agree, is overpowered. If the point is to impede the action, either the person falls outside or doesn't make the "run" at all. In that case, maybe the person attempting the free running gets the message "someone is blocking the window, you cannot see a way past them at the moment".--Pesatyel 05:44, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

It couldn't use that exact message as it would make people think the "defender" was still blocking the way in when in fact they will not be (it only works for 1 action once). But Free running is certainly the biggest problem i see with this even with any tweaks i can think of??? --Honestmistake 09:19, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, that's not ENTIRELY true. It would be quickly learned that the free run attempted could only be blocked, technically, that one time. In this instance, it is more of a matter of how many people are allowed to "block" in the first place. Something else to consider (with Free Running in particular) is that one person can't exactly block EVERY means of ingress. That is to say, instead of blocking entirely, I'd imagine it would be a chance of success percentage.--Pesatyel 08:39, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Hey HM; your suggestion sucks zombie balls, and everyone here knows it. Either take your frills down and listen to us or take this turd to voting, but don't pretend like you're actually using DS. This suggestion is fundamentally flawed, and deep down, you know it. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 04:11, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Your right about this having flaws however, its only been here 3 days and when I am good and ready I will post a reworked version to see if I can make use of the criticism to get something that is workable. Now either come back with some useful criticism or fuck off back to trollville and stroke your templates! --Honestmistake 09:18, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't see the "fundamental flaw" (or the tasit implication that this suggestion has no merit and/or cannot be "made good" in any way).--Pesatyel 08:42, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
I have no constructive criticism to offer this. Because nothing constructive can possibly be added to a suggestion which essentially forces players (by way of AP-nerfs to certain actions) to align themselves with one 'side' of the game. So I have this to say: Fuck. Off.--DTPraise KnowledgePK 03:57, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Align themselves with one 'side' of the game? What does THAT mean?--Pesatyel 04:03, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Suggestions up for voting

Location Specific Actions

Moved to Suggestion talk:20091206 Location Specific Actions


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