Developing Suggestions

Developing Suggestions

This section is for presenting and reviewing suggestions which have not yet been submitted and are still being worked on.

Nothing on this page will be archived.

Further Discussion

• Discussion concerning this page takes place here.
• Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general, including policies about it, takes place here.

Please Read Before Posting

• Be sure to check The Frequently Suggested List and the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots before you post your idea. You can read about many ideas that have been suggested already, which users should be aware of before posting what could be a dupe: a duplicate of an existing suggestion. These include Machine Guns and Sniper Rifles.
• Users should be aware that page is discussion oriented. Other users are free to express their own point of view and are not required to be neutral.
• If you decide not to take your suggestion to voting, please remove it from this page to avoid clutter.
• It is recommended that users spend some time familiarizing themselves with this page before posting their own suggestions.
• After new game updates, users are requested to allow time for the game and community to adjust to these changes before suggesting alterations.

How To Make a Suggestion

Adding a New Suggestion

• Copy the code in the box below.
• Click here to begin editing. This is the same as clicking the [edit] link to the right of the Suggestions header.

• Paste the copied text above the other suggestions, right under the heading.
• Substitute the text in RED CAPITALS with the details of your suggestion.

{{subst:DevelopingSuggestion
|time=~~~~
|name=SUGGESTION NAME
|type=TYPE HERE
|scope=SCOPE HERE
|description=DESCRIPTION HERE
}}

• Name - Give the suggestion a short but descriptive name.
• Type is the nature of the suggestion, such as a new class, skill change, balance change, etc. Basically: What is it? and Is it new, or a change?
• Scope is who or what the suggestion affects. Typically survivors or zombies (or both), but occasionally Malton, the game interface or something else.
• Description should be a full explanation of your suggestion. Include information like flavor text, search odds, hit percentages, etc, as appropriate. Unless you are as yet unsure of the exact details behind the suggestion, try not to leave out anything important. Check your spelling and grammar.

Cycling Suggestions

• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past two days should be given a warning notice. This can be done by adding {{SDW|date}} at the top of the discussion section, where date is the day the suggestion will be removed.
• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past week may be removed.
• If you are adding a comment to a suggestion that has the warning template please remove the {{SDW|date}} at the top of the discussion section to show that there is still ongoing discussion.

This page is prone to breaking when the page gets too long, so sometimes suggestions still under discussion will be moved to the Overflow page, so the discussion can continue.

Please add new suggestions to the top of the list

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Suggestions

Shove Zombies

Timestamp: Scvideoking 02:58, 10 May 2010 (BST)

Type: Skill

Scope: Survivors

Description:OK se we all know a zombie can grab us and drag us to street level at some point right? well how about survivors can shove zombies out windows? I mean its realistic and a bit more fair. This would have the same use as a weapon except if you succeded text would be You grab the zombie by the neck and shove it with all your might out the nearest window Heres are examples You are stading in x the building is dark there is 2 zombies here(AP would be 10 to shove one out of the dark building) You are standing in x the building unlit There is 1 zombie here(5 AP to shove out) Youu are standing in x the building is lit There is 1 zombie here(3 AP) What happens to the zombie? he is forced to street level and needs to stand up HP loss is 2 for they are already dead. What do you think?

Discussion (Shove Zombies)

I think you need to learn to follow the instructions at the top of this page, rather than thinking you can outsmart them by just copy/pasting from someone else (I had to fix it for you, just as someone has to for almost every suggestion you make). I also think it's a horribly overpowered idea. You're essentially giving survivors an insta-kill against zombies that always works and will cost 5ap or less in most cases. Currently, the cheapest way to remove a zombie from a building is to revive it, which costs 10AP for the revive, an average of 12AP for the searching, 1AP for the body dump, and some unknown amount of AP for travel to and from the NT facility. So, you're suggesting we go from the best method being, say, 30AP to 5AP, and you see nothing wrong with this at all? —Aichon— 03:27, 10 May 2010 (BST)

Yes this is entirely equal to feeding drag. Perhaps better adherence to barricade plans, HIPS, damn tactics, Sutherland's, or any number of good tactical doctrines expounded on this wiki would mean that you'd be better prepared to HOLY FUCKING SHIT A ZOMBIE WE ARE SO SHITTERED 03:33, 10 May 2010 (BST)

The only way I would get behind this is if the attack rates were as follows:

• 10% you shove the zombie out the window
• 10% you and the zombie both go out the window
• 80% you miss the zombie and fall out the window

Naturally, if the survivor goes out the window, s/he dies as per usual. Then MAYBE I could get behind this. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 08:00, 10 May 2010 (BST)

I would definitely vote keep with the percentages above. Make it a 1AP action, too. Also, make it the survivor default attack. --Karloth Vois ^¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:43, 10 May 2010 (BST)

Okay, I'll bite and give serious feedback. Change the above numbers to 10% each and the remaining 70% doing nothing and I could vote for it... As long as the following were all added:

• It's a new skill requiring maxed hand to hand.
• It only kills if you were in tall buildings with less than VS barricades
• It only causes 5 damaged if used from any other building (and even then can only be used if no cades are present.
• but most importantly... it was an alternative skill to headshot. Thats right, one or the other but not both. --Honestmistake 17:08, 10 May 2010 (BST)

What about people who have headshot and want zombie shove instead?--V darkstar 19:33, 10 May 2010 (BST)

Fuck them! --Honestmistake 00:53, 11 May 2010 (BST)

Oh okay.... I suppose we could just have kevan recode the database to refund the xp cost to every player with headshot? --Honestmistake 00:55, 11 May 2010 (BST)

This is an awful concept as presented, but I can think of a couple of changes to make it worthwhile. In fact, I'm not entirely opposed to the whole concept if it's modified properly.

First, Feeding Drag requires that the victim be low on health... down to 13 HP, actually. I see no reason that the same restriction shouldn't apply to Shove. You shouldn't be able to shove a reasonably healthy zombie out the door, both for realism and game play purposes.

Second, I think it should be a standard attack on the dropdown menu appearing like Feeding Drag, and have a % chance of success or failure just like other attacks.

Third, your system of varied AP cost to shove depending on building type and condition is weird and unappealing. It shouldn't cost more than 1 AP, regardless of building type. I do think that some sort of modifier is appropriate for building conditions, but not an AP modifier. More likely a % chance of success modifier, or a chance for the zombie to retaliate with one or more bite auto-attacks (Yes, I know, "no auto-attacks". I don't care. I think it's a good idea in this case. We're talking about someone trying to greco-roman wrestle a zombie through a door... the odds of a bite would be gigantic and merit an auto-attack, and more than one if you're trying to do it in the dark).

Fourth, I like Maverick's idea of the player possibly ending up outside with or instead of the zombie, but not his implementation. I think it's perfectly reasonable that you should likely end up outside, but that shouldn't hurt on its own, and you can just spend another 1 AP to go back inside. A minor feature, nearly meaningless, but kind of nice and good flavor.

Fifth, I don't see the point of this costing the zombie any health or knocking him down. It's a shove. It takes 5 shotgun blasts to knock a healthy zombie down, and you want to hurt him and knock him down with a shove? Don't be ridiculous. Besides, zombies only fall down when they're at 0 HP, for reasons seen on this page many times in the past, and always rise with full health.

These changes would result in your example looking more like this:

• You are stading in x the building is dark

there is 2 zombies here - attack option - Shove 1 out- 1 AP, 25% of normal chance of success, zombie gets 2 bite auto attacks, 90% chance you are dragged outside with the zombie

• You are standing in x the building unlit

There is 1 zombie here - attack option - Shove 1 out- 1 AP, 66% of normal chance of success, zombie gets 1 bite auto attack, 75% chance you are dragged outside with the zombie

• You are standing in x the building is lit

There is 1 zombie here- attack option - Shove 1 out- 1 AP, 100% of normal chance of success, zombie gets 1 bite auto attack, 50% chance you are dragged outside with the zombie

Of course, this requires figuring out what the "normal chance of success" should be. I think it should be fairly low, since it's hard to shove anyone through any door. Ever tried it? It's pretty damn hard if they don't want to go. But it could also open up a new hand-to-hand branch on the skill tree for improvement in this. If it's just a set skill with no hope of improvement, I'd suggest maybe a 25% chance. If it becomes its own branch on the skill tree with room for improvement, I'd suggest less, maybe 10-20%. That'd give room for more skills to improve it. Or it could be enhanced by Body Building, so that the skills could become complimentary.

I think that with these modifications, or something like them, this could provide an interesting alternative for daring survivors to remove low-HP zombies from a building rather than spending the AP on attacks to finish them and dump the bodies. I wouldn't expect it to pass a vote, though, and I'm betting that someone shows poor reading comprehension and/or ends up CNR by claiming that what I'm proposing is a 100% chance of success in lit buildings rather than not having a penalty on their normal attack rate of somewhere around 10-25%. So let's be clear, the % chances listed in the examples are suggestions of modifiers to their normal % chance of attack success, not their actual % chance to succeed at this. Just in case anyone reads this far. Which they probably won't, at least not attentively.

And while I'm here, where ideas go to die, I've been wondering about something unrelated. When a survivor climbs up a tall building and jumps off, he dies. He then has to stand up, and is at full zombie HP. When a zombie does the same, he doesn't even fall down, and his HP aren't renewed. Why? Is there any point to this? It seems like it's deliberate, because it runs contrary to the rest of gameflow. Low-HP zombies can kill one another to avoid headshot, why can't they climb and jump to do the same? I figured I'd ask a group of people whose experience rationalizing and justifying poor game features that put zombies at a disadvantage is truly staggering, so I came here. It's definitely a minor issue, but it's got me curious, and perhaps one of you can provide an actual reason.--Necrofeelinya 00:54, 11 May 2010 (BST)

Basically its because getting someone else to kill you to avoid headshot requires co-operation and timing while an action that allows you to do it without help is much easier to abuse. --Honestmistake 00:57, 11 May 2010 (BST)

Yeah, but it doesn't matter when zombies die. They just get up again. Closing off a minor game exploit like that with a feature that runs contrary to common sense while leaving open the options of Whack'N'Fak, VSB ruins, pro-human zombies, etc. doesn't make sense to me. I'm wondering if there's a reason that goes beyond that. After all, for a zombie to seek out a tall building, enter, climb, jump and rise again would usually take a certain amount of AP... often more than just eating the headshot. Can you think of any other reason that zombies committing suicide might negatively affect gameplay?--Necrofeelinya 01:07, 11 May 2010 (BST)

Yes. So a zombie doesn't just enter, jump out, stand up, and re-enter any time he takes down the barricades of a tall building. That's what feeding on corpses is for. Getting other zombies to kill you is a really unavoidable side effect of a system which doesn't prohibit life cultism. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:53, 11 May 2010 (BST)

So the whole purpose of this is to prevent lone ferals low on HP from breaking into the occasional tall building, finding harmans, spending AP to climb, jump, stand and reenter instead of just attacking right away, and holding position with 50 or 60 HP while groaning for help instead of whatever HP they had before? It's not hard enough to kill and dump a lone zombie, even at full health, for that to seem like much reason to code in such a fashion as to prevent zombies from suicide. All this does is help nerf the already-largely-nerfed feral and baby zombies. It has no effect on any group larger than 2, and it looks like the likelihood of it having a serious in-game effect is next to nil. I'm beginning to wonder if it's just an oversight on Kevan's part, where for some reason the "jump" option was only coded to affect survivors, but on the face of it, it seems deliberate.--Necrofeelinya 03:38, 11 May 2010 (BST)

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Yet Another Flashlight/Torch/Portable Light Source Suggestion

Timestamp: BoboTalkClown 15:53, 8 May 2010 (BST)

Type: Item

Scope: Searchers of dark and unlit buildings and the zombies and PKers that hunt them.

Description: Below is the text from the Portable Light Sources section with my comments as to address its points. Please read my suggestion before voting. “Portable Light Sources” “Flashlight, torch, lantern, or glowstick. No matter what you call it, a portable light source is overpowered.” I believe my suggestion addresses those concerns. “Light sources boost search rates and aid skills like Surgery.” My suggestion does not assist Surgery. That seems silly. In addition, it only boosts search rates up to the unpowered norm in dark buildings, and provides half the generator bonus in undarkened buildings. “There is a huge difference between a portable generator and one of the previously mentioned items. A generator is carried until set up and then always in place until destroyed. A portable (or personal) light source will be kept in a player's inventory until dropped by that player. The portable personal light source offers all of the benefits with out any of the risk. It can not be destroyed as long as it is in an inventory.” My suggestion is not identical to a generator, as seen above and below. It also has a 1% chance to “flicker and die” during a search. It is found in Mall tech stores at 2%, a Fort barracks at 1%, Fire Stations at 2%, Junkyards at 1%, Police Departments at 2%, and Warehouses at 4%. It can't be balanced by limiting the length of duration and adding a fuel source that needs to be found because it will only be used when searching for more fuel for it. Thereby removing the "balancing factor" of the time and fuel. My balancing factor is a 5% to-hit bonus against the target. This is removed if in a powered building or the attacker is receving the 10% tangling grasp bonus unless the grasp is in a dark building, where the flashligt bonus is simply reduced to 10%. It is increased to 15% (unmodified by darkness) if the target is in a dark building. Flashlights illuminate buildings, shown with a dim glow, like the “powered” yellow, but much more greyish. If the item is also able to be turned off and on at will it makes it ridiculously unfair due to the fact that the main balancing drawback of a lit building is the fact that it attracts zombies. It can’t be, and it (as stated above) also provides a 10% to-hit bonus against the wielder. The only way to avoid the bonus is to drop the flashlight.

Discussion (Yet Another Flashlight/Torch/Portable Light Source Suggestion)

Being fairly new to the wiki, perhaps I'm missing something, but what are the actual details of your suggestion?--Austin hunt 18:38, 8 May 2010 (BST)

Yeah, it seems like there's something missing. Also I'm not keen on the idea in general, to be honest. 18:40, 8 May 2010 (BST)

Agreed. This is like saying, "I'm thinking of a person with a pronounced chin, brown hair, and blue eyes," and then expecting us to know exactly who you're talking about. —Aichon— 02:11, 9 May 2010 (BST)

You refute arguments, but you seem to have entirely forgotten to actually tell us about your suggestion. Portable light source, got it. But what are the details? --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 07:56, 10 May 2010 (BST)

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Identification by Clothing (IbC)

Timestamp: Murdoc 13:06, 5 May 2010 (BST)

Type: New characters identification system

Scope: Improve Bounty Hunter vs PK game

Description: Hey buddies, One of my PK-oriented characters has just been condamned to be killed again and again by some lousy bunch of crappy guys. I don't fear them and I am heading back to their HQ in order to randomly fire all my guns at them. BUT (the actual suggestion begins here :) ) It would be cool if the first thing of a survivor you can see is his clothing. This way, he could change after having comitted a forfeit, and the whole PK/bounty hunters thing will be a lot funnier. Moreover, it would require a lot of talents to be a Bounty Hunter, which is challenging. Currently, any stupid weaponed guy can be one, which is a shame. The cool stuff would be : all characters are designated the same way on the map. You click on one, and you see the clothes he wears. If there is no interaction between you and the character, you just see his clothes. If the guy hits you, you see his name in the text saying "XxX hits you with a fire axe/shot you with a gun/whatever". If the guy speaks, you also see his name. So the Bounty Hunters will have to make suspected people speak to gently check their names. If the guy builds anything, you see his name. So if he barricades a building in the rage of a siege, and a bounty hunter is present, their will be a cool movie-like scene were the guys are united by danger but divided by revenge. If you hit the guy, you see his name. This way, if BH suspect a people who just don't talk, they could check his identity. As it is a rule that incitates people to hit others, their will be a bit more chaos in Malton. And healers will havea bit more work to do. Edit : of course, it implies that all characters receive random clothes at the beginning of the game. And you cannot just put anything. You have to wear something at any moment in the game.

Discussion (Identification by Clothing (IbC))

Would discourage to fill out profile descriptions as only a fraction gets to see them, makes role-playing difficult, makes zerg-hunting and -detecting difficult, would really run the contacts list limit to the hilt quickly... And those are just the first few severe mistakes I thought of in the first minute of reading this. I'd really prefer to give a friendlier conclusion and some advice for improvement with a new user's first suggestion, but all what this one leaves me to say is this: Spaminate this and kill it with fire, just to be sure. -- Spiderzed▋ 13:55, 5 May 2010 (BST)

Likewise. Also, it'd look far too unwieldy in actual usage. 14:18, 5 May 2010 (BST)

I'm ok with you remarks, except that I do think it would greatly enhances the role-playing ^^

How would they be displayed on the map exactly? Would it be like there is a herd of 52 mrh co- *Ahem* survivors here? (Although that makes it nigh impossible to click individual people) Or would it be ...,a survivor, a survivor, a survivor, a survivor, etc etc etc... That approach though is horrifically clunky at best, and utterly bewildering to new bloods at worst. While it would be nice to see the newspaper achieve importance (100% to hit 0 DAM, perfect for finding out names) This is not the way to do it. I have no idea how this would affect UDtool lists, but I'd wager it wouldn't be good. Simply put it makes us too powerful, as it is I'm only recognized in certain areas the rogues gallery has recognized 3 of my kills, This would just let me slip in and murder without having to make a contingency plan. Being hunted is half the fun of pking. -Devorac 17:00, 5 May 2010 (BST)

Non-compatible with URL. I note down the URL of your clothing page, type it in to google, and I'll instantly know who you are.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 17:41, 5 May 2010 (BST)

The suggestion is a little difficult to read. All I had to read was the scope to immediately think "no". PKing does NOT need to be promoted. That having been said, as I understand the suggestion, this is ALREADY part of the game.

• All characters are "designated the same on the map". They already are, essentially, by their name.
• When you click on their name, you see their description. Including what they are wearing.
• When you interact with a character (they speak, attack, barricade, etc.) you see their name as doing the deed.

Have you actually PLAYED the game? The only thing I can see as an "actual" suggestion here is that you want the clothing section of the profile above the personal description (in order to "see the clothing first"). When my zombie attacked someone, I got this message: You maul Jane for 3 damage, and grab hold of their blood-flecked pale blue short-sleeved shirt. They drop to 37 HP. So what exactly is it you want added to the game that isn't already there?--Pesatyel 04:54, 6 May 2010 (BST)

I cannot think of any feasible way of doing this without spamming the UD interface with text about what people are wearing, particularly in large areas like malls and TRPs. You also ignore the fact that it is extremely easy for a person to change clothing; just move to a new building, click "Settings", badda bing badda boom. This might be plausible in another game where it isn't so easy to change clothes, but I just don't see this working for UD. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 23:02, 7 May 2010 (BST)

Very roleplay heavy. I don't like it. Stick to simple. BoboTalkClown 16:03, 8 May 2010 (BST)

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Expert Skills v0.2

Timestamp: Devorac 16:30, 3 May 2010 (BST)

Type: New Skills

Scope: Everyone banging their heads against the granite ceiling

Description: Most everyone knows that the game burnout hits at level 41 (43 for zombies) when all skills have been earned, personally I think there should be more to work towards, (other than the tic-tac-toe of defending/destroying suburbs and buildings in the war against zombies/harmanz) a bit more to achieve. Unfortunately there are numerous problems with introducing any new skills into the game, the biggest goes something like this: "All the old players will suddenly get a buff out of nowhere.". That concern is quite legitimate, and previous means of circumventing it (reducing everyone who has 41-43 levels XP to zero, setting an XP ceiling) have been met with hostility and usually something involving EP size. This brings us to my proposal... Expert Skills, or proficiency, whatever you want to call it. What this means is that for most actions there is an additional skill that cannot be purchased with XP, it must be earned through repetition. These are skills for people who do what they do really well, you won't get these for blowing two lvl 1 zombies in half with a shotgun (120 XP) or healing 5 10HP lvl 1 survivors back to full health (100-200XP, 20-40 FAKs). For instance I think that to achieve an expert skill level with FAKs you should have to use about 2200 of them. Yes, twenty-two-hundred. Work out the AP math of that and it is two solid months of AP usage. Two solid months doing nothing but FAK people. Yeah that's a lot but I want these skills to be really cool things that you can be proud of, not just milestones. On the skill tree theses would show up as a third area after zombie skills labeled Expert Skills. The skills themselves are cool things that you will be happy to have, but the won't break the game. This is a current list of all the expert skills, I'll try to keep it as balanced between zombie and survivor skills as I can. Survivor (Many More Coming) Frugal Doctor (0/2200 First-Aid Kits Administered) Not yet Achieved 5% chance that a FAK will not be used up when healing a patient. Waste Not, Want Not. Junkyard Jackal (2543/2200 Hits with Improvised Weapons) Achieved! +10% chance to hit with all improvised weapons 5% chance to deal +1 damage when striking with improvised weapons as well. I don't know what this is, but I bet it'll hurt when it hits you. Toughness (2349/6000 Damage taken as a Survivor) Not yet Achieved 5% To take only half normal damage when attacked, rounded up. Applied after Flack jacket where applicable. I'd be lying if I said this didn't sting like all get out. Doorman (42/3000 Barricade levels lowered or raised.) Not Yet achieved +5% chance to successfully raise barricades when building. +5% chance to lower barricades on strike. Strength comes from the back and legs, use your shoulders on the big stuff and you'll just torque something Lumberjack (1438/3000 Hits with an Axe) Not Yet Achieved +5% chance to hit with Fire Axe 10% chance to not use an AP on a miss. You lose yourself in the Rhythm after a while; Raise, chop, recover, raise, chop, recover, raise... Pack Rat (1071/6000 Items found) Not Yet Achieved +10% max encumbrance. Hold on, I just need one more thing... just one more... Deadeye (721/2200 Pistol Hits) 5% chance to deal an additional 1 point of damage with the pistol. Happiness is a warm gun... Tuck and Roll (6092/6000 Free runs made) +15% chance to not take damage from free-running into a ruin. It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the end. Zombie (Many More Coming) Masticate (0/2200 Survivors Bitten) Not yet Achieved* Extra 10% Increase to Zombie Bite accuracy when gripping target. 15% chance that the zombie will not use an AP when missing a bite on a gripped target. OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM Iron Grasp (0/2200 Survivors Gripped**) Not Yet Achieved 5% extra accuracy bonus when using tangling grasp. 5% Reduced chance for a survivor to slip grasp. Oh God I think he's got me, oh sh- *crunch* Scar Tissue (281/9000 Damage taken as a Zombie) Not Yet Achieved HP Maximum as a Zombie raised by an additional 5 points. Stacks with body-building, or rotting flesh. Goddamnit! These bitches just won't die! Destructive Intent (4/2200 Barricade levels lowered as a zombie) Not Yet Achieved 10% chance to lower barricade levels by an extra point on a successful strike. Did you hear someth- AUGHH! Hunter's Instinct (15/1500 Scent Trails Activated) Not Yet Achieved Zombie gets a +1 Damage on the last Character to attack it. +10% to hit bonus when attacking the last survivor to attack it. Word of advice boy, Don't start what you can't finish... These bastards get pretty angry Blood Hunt (1/2500 Scent Death Maps Activated) Not Yet Achieved Squares with infected or dying survivors are asterisked on the scent death map. Look kid, if someone gets wounded too badly and you can't fix it, you either leave them behind or shoot them... It's safer to you and kinder to them. Ripping Hands (237/2200 Hand impacts on a survivor) Not Yet Achieved +5% Accuracy bonus with hands. 5% Chance to deal an extra 1 damage. Luckily for them it doesn't take much in the way of brains to slaughter and maim. Omni-sense (1/1000 Survivors killed as a zombie) Not Yet Achieved No accuracy debuffs affect the zombie. (I.e Dark buildings) ...The prevailing theory is that they rely on all their senses equally, it would explain how they are undeterred by darkness or extreme light... Additionally I'm thinking of adding a single additional special expert skill for each class to make things a bit more unique. Battlefield Surgeon Required Class: Medic Pre-requisite Expert Skill: Frugal Doctor The Character can perform surgery in any powered building. Bite down on this... try to relax. Jack Of All Trades Required Class: Consumer Pre-requisite Expert Skill: Junkyard Jackal 1% chance to deal +2 damage with any weapon. He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence Endurance Runner Required class: Scout Pre-requisite Expert Skill: Tuck and Roll 10% chance to not use an AP when running out in the open. (Not free-running) You run. You run and run until you can't feel your legs and your chest feels like it's going to split, and then you run some more. These skills are hidden as a second tier skill underneath their pre-requisite expert skill, effectively hiding them until the first tier expert skill is earned. Now I'm thinking that this extra skill is automatically given once you earn it's pre-requisite, after all there is only one per character class and it is meant to amplify your base class. I*This may seem over-powered and it may indeed replace maul for high level zombies, but I really think the Uber zombies should be, well Uber. I**Counts each time you re-grip, crushes don't count. Okay. thoughts?

Discussion (Expert Skills V0.2)

Alright we are updated with 7 (seven) new skills awaiting your comments-Devorac 16:35, 3 May 2010 (BST) (Lelouch I kept your comment because it made me feel all fuzzy inside.. :P)

EPIC WIN Wait, what? The title's wrong... Come to think of it, what the hell is up with the picture? Uhuh. No way. No fucking way. You're telling me that someone actually made a good suggestion on DS? Get your lying ass out of here before I start putting bullets into it.

This is the best idea you've ever had, ever.

Lelouch vi Britannia 03:00, 3 May 2010 (BST)

I still like your idea, very well balanced and fun for newbies and experts alike. You do plan on special expert skill for all classes right?--V darkstar 17:13, 3 May 2010 (BST)

Yes... It is difficult to think of skills that are balanced, fit the class, and have a fitting pre-req though... I'll probably release a few more tomorrow. -Devorac 17:53, 3 May 2010 (BST)

I still don't like the idea of expert skills at all, and I think that a good number of the ones you've given as examples are overpowered. --User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 19:59, 3 May 2010 (BST)

Please by all means go into how and why they are unbalanced, I'll do whatever I can to address your concerns. While I probably won't be able to do anything about it I would also like to hear your thoughts on why you don't like Expert Skills in general. -Devorac 21:05, 3 May 2010 (BST)

Right, here we go: Scar Tissue - providing one side with an instant +10 health, especially combined with the fact that they stand up with full health, is slightly unfair. The 9000 points of damage equates to roughly 150 kills, something all three of my main characters can claim, as well as my minor characters being a good part of the way there. Major newb killer, as well as making it much harder to kill anyone.

Omni-sense - Theoretically not too bad, but the prerequisite has nothing to do with the skill.

Masticate, Lumberjack, Endurance Runner - Simply put, if you don't want to use an action point, then don't perform an action. Misses are there for a reason, and if we take them away, the game nears pointlessness. Before you attempt to reply that it'll only be on rare occassions, I direct you to the guideline: Rare does not equal balanced. This suggestion holds true to that.

Deadeye, Jack Of All Trades and to a lesser extent Ripping Hands - +1 damage to the most powerful weapon in the game is insanely unbalancing. +2 damage to all weapons, including the most powerful weapon in the game, is INSANELY unbalancing. Hopefully Aichon will provide us with some of his brilliant maths.

Pack Rat - 100% =/= 110%.

Frugal Doctor - As with Masticate, etc, if you don't want to use an item, don't use it.

Battlefield Surgeon - Seriously overpowered. The extra 5hp should be a benefit from staying around a certain type of building, it should most definitely not be a permanent feature.

Last but not least Toughness - If you need me to explain why halving all damage to a target is a bad idea, then I doubt explaining would help. :P

And on the subject of these skills in general they will ALWAYS benefit advanced players more than newbies. The gap will always be made larger, and it will become harder and harder for new players to play the game. --User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 21:25, 3 May 2010 (BST)

To clarify, read the costly does not equal balanced section here to see what I'm getting at.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 21:30, 3 May 2010 (BST)

Okay,

Scar Tissue I'm open to changing this to the same as human toughness or halving the bonus.... in fact I think I will do that... It is a much more difficult one to balance out.

Omni-sense If you can think of better I'll gladly put it in... Otherwise consider it the zombie brain getting used balancing the senses.

Masticate, Lumberjack, Endurance Runner Lumber jack, 1.5 Extra attacks. Masticate, about 2 extra attacks. Endurance runner if you happen to spend all of your 50 AP outside (unlikely) you get 5 additional AP. Also Rare was meant for items (I.E the suggestion for a 0.001% chance to find a minigun in armories) not so much for percentages, if it was we would never have flare guns. On rare occasions the RNG opens up to me and I can get 40+ shots out without missing (42 is my record) does this mean I should have my pistols taken from me? No.

Deadeye, Jack Of All Trades and to a lesser extent Ripping Hands It was far FAR less overpowered than a 5% accuracy buff. Deadeye 1.625 bonus damage under ideal circumstances (50 AP, no reloads). Jack of all trades pistol, .7 average bonus. Shotgun (full load no reloads 32 shots) .416 bonus damage. Fire Axe, .4 Bonus damage. Err... Massive Overpower isn't quite what I think of when I look at this.

Pack Rat - 100% =/= 110%. Well that is brilliant math there, it doesn't exactly tell me why you object though.

Frugal Doctor ... Okay if that wasn't a joke I'm going to have to look at you like you're crazy. "If you don't want to die confronting zombies don't confront zombies" Why thank you captain obvious. This is a "Hey Cool!" buff. If you really believe that it is too over powered I am open to halving it again.

Battlefield Surgeon - Sorry not changing this one.

Toughness Please read the suggestion. It hurts my massive ego when people do this.

Gaps are what make it fun. If there was no gap between 1 and 41 few people would have any interest. Even if a character had all of these skills (I need to make a note that any zombie expert skills do not carry over as a survivor and vice versa) The difference between a 41 and a 41 with expert skills is not great. The fun of them comes from achieving them, these skills are designed to be things that happen on a "Well that was nice" basis.-Devorac 22:30, 3 May 2010 (BST)

I do not consider you to have fully addressed my points, and still do not agree with this suggestion. However, since neither of us are going to agree, I guess that leaves it at that.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 22:40, 3 May 2010 (BST)

Well no I didn't largely because several were on the odd side (Pack rat, toughness) however I am glad that you have decided to leave it off here rather than fill the page with needless drama. If you would like to explain more clearly (And include your own math to back your arguments up) you are welcome on the talk page of my Mad Science lab. -Devorac 22:51, 3 May 2010 (BST)

Jusy remember Devorac you can't please everyone I think the originals where good enough.--V darkstar 13:26, 4 May 2010 (BST)

I think that Pack Rat is kind of towards the OP side, because all survivors search frequently and we hit 118% encumbrance too often as a side as it is. Battlefield Surgery might need to be in a powered building? Just an idea, not a big thing. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 03:41, 5 May 2010 (BST)

Alright I'll see if I can change pack rat a little to make it work... The Surgery is a fair change and it makes sense, done. -Devorac 06:08, 5 May 2010 (BST)

Awsome idea. And remember OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM --Kralion 22:57, 6 May 2010 (BST

Okay should update to Version .3 tomorrow or the next day. I'll see if I can change pack rat and I'll ad some new stuff to get flamed. -Devorac 06:09, 7 May 2010 (BST)

Unexpected (Unremembered actually) events have slowed production of V .3 at best I'll have it out tomorrow. Sorry guys 'n gals -Devorac 22:36, 9 May 2010 (BST)

Don't like it. Makes UD too much like other "grinding" MMOs. BoboTalkClown 16:04, 8 May 2010 (BST)

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Windows shading

Timestamp: Girobu 09:14, 29 April 2010 (BST)

Type: New mechanics

Scope: all

Description: When a building is powered, the light is observable from the street. It attractss zombies and PKers to lit buildings, and makes non-lit ones a little bit safer. But what if we'd have ability to shade the windows with newspapers? The idea is - if you have certain amount of newspapers (different for different building types), you can shade the windows for cost 1 AP per newspaper (NO partial shading!). When building is shaded, it looks like unpowered one from the street, even when powered. When zombie enters the building, he/she can destroy shading for one succesful attack (I assume, that newspapers are not very strong) - there is an option in attacked things list - "shading". Variants: No need to newspapers, just some AP (let's say 5-20 for different bildings) to shade windows ("you shade the windows with some duct tape"), and the same mechanics to remove shading (one successful attack to shading). But there is more fun with newspapers (and you need pay AP's to find them).

Discussion (Windows shading)

The added danger is the balance for the huge search advantage a generator gives. No making them invisible. If you don't want to pay the price, smash the generator yourself -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 09:18 29 April 2010 (BST)

It makes non-lit building more dangerous, so the price is paid. Plus it paid by amount of AP required to shade building, and just 1-2 to fully deshade it. --Girobu 09:27, 29 April 2010 (BST)

The danger is displaced or spread around from valuable locations to less valuable locations. Still an advantage. —Aichon— 09:32, 29 April 2010 (BST)

I think, balance kept (there are advantages and disadvantages for both sides) - and the strategy becomes more interesting for both parties. --Girobu 11:29, 29 April 2010 (BST)

Aichon and Boxy really nailed this one on the head. The light of the genny is the trade-off, AND you're trying to make a RP item (newspaper) useful at the same time. If you want your genny to stay hidden, put it in a ruined building. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 10:14, 29 April 2010 (BST)

Orly? 14:40, 29 April 2010 (BST)

Plus this will really annoy those zombies in Perma Death Cities, searching through the ruins for that single lit building. Oh! and if the genny was destroyed whilst the windows were covered, would the building become Dark? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:19, 29 April 2010 (BST)

Yes, it's good idea (making them dark). And if you want to find something, you must de-shade it. Price paid? :) --Girobu 10:50, 29 April 2010 (BST)

Bad idea. We'd see a lot of newspaper-darkened non-TRPs just to have a safe sleep place, while zombies have no way to dismantle them by ripping away the paper or setting up a gennie. --Spiderzed 14:36, 29 April 2010 (BST)

Now you can cade and power the whole suburb just to have a safe sleep place while zombies have no way... you know. Does it ruin the game? I want just to have another strategy. And - shading is expensive, de-shading is cheap - to keep the balance. --Girobu 15:39, 29 April 2010 (BST)

As others have already said, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you can't live with being attacked in a lit resource building, destroy the genny, or even smarter yet, go to the TRP only to stock up and then sleep somewhere safer. But don't go and pester Kevan to change the game just because you can't be bothered to endure a trade-off that has been long established in UD, and that most survivor players have learned to deal with. --Spiderzed 14:36, 29 April 2010 (BST)

No, it isn't. Addition of such possibility won't give you a free cookie, because everyone will know about it, so there is no way to be safe in TRP like in dark bank today. I'd say, there will be no safe dark banks with this suggestion implemented. --Girobu 15:34, 29 April 2010 (BST)

I didn't see anything in your suggestion that would make dark banks more dangerous. But the criticism brought up by others here is warranted. This would really mess up the game for feral zombies and cause more of them to stop playing. When there aren't any feeding groans, attacking lit buildings is one of the best ways for ferals to try and find a snack. Zombies already have to guess at where there prey is, since they can't see inside the buildings. The newspaper trick would further conceal the presence of survivors all across Malton almost overnight, making the game more difficult and frustrating for all zombies.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 07:59, 30 April 2010 (BST)

When zombie KNOWS that buildings, looking like unlit, may actualy be powered and shaded, s/he will attack unlit buildings more often, than now. So, no safe dark places. --Girobu 15:31, 4 May 2010 (BST)

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Caffine Pills

Timestamp: BlackDragon2026 23:35, 17 April 2010 (BST)

Type: New Item

Scope: Survivors

Description: Similar to beer or wine, except that this consumable item, found mainly in mall drug stores or police and fire stations will give an AP increase, while your health decrease slightly every time you take a pill. Each box of caffine pills can have 5 to 10 pills, and each pill, which takes no AP to digest, will increase one AP and decrease one health. Drug stores would have these for sale, while EMS personnel at fire stations and police officers on night shift would have them in their lockers.

Discussion (Caffine Pills)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active discussion. It will be removed on: 11 May 2010

My death-cultist would gladly pack some. Health degradation not just for free, but for extra AP? Amazing parachutes could be done by that... --Spiderzed 23:40, 17 April 2010 (BST)

My thoughts exactly. A pack of 5 or 10 of these, as you say, plus an infection, halves the amount of AP expended dying in a parachute. I like it but it's powerful. Gain 1 AP, lose 5 HP, doses found individually (flavour it as taking several pills at once, rather than finding individual pills), then they'd probably balance out more. I'd vote for them in a watered-down form, as I'd find great use for them. 23:44, 17 April 2010 (BST)

Could allow for massive AP usage in a single burst. Overpowered. - User:Whitehouse 23:41, 17 April 2010 (BST)

Upon use: Gain 5AP, doesn't take any to eat. The next five AP using actions: Nothing unusual. The next five AP using actions: Costs double the normal AP. It all stacks, so if you eat four pills, you get 20AP, make 20 Normal moves, and then have the hangover last for 20 moves. But of corse, it would never work, like anything that afects AP. --VVV ^RPMBG 00:23, 18 April 2010 (BST)

If this was implemented, I would stock up my inventory half full with these, and half full with bottles of wine. Then, for the next month, I'd play non-stop, Using the extra AP from this healing the 1HP cost.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 00:28, 18 April 2010 (BST)

00:34, 18 April 2010 (BST)

You might want to image ark that somewhere. :/ --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 00:36, 18 April 2010 (BST)

Done. Ain't nobody deleting mah Belushi. 00:49, 18 April 2010 (BST)

Dupe --Explodey 00:35, 22 April 2010 (BST)

No. This suggestion adds up to an increased ability to store AP for later use, but only for those who play at least part of their time as a survivor. More AP for survivors, less for dedicated zombies -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 09:33 22 April 2010 (BST)

Ridiculously overpowered. Consume 5, use a FAK, and you still have 4 AP left to use. Also tilts things too much in favor of survivors. Q. JuliusTBH 21:29, 22 April 2010 (BST)

Ok well in my opinion its should be a max of say 2 pills for 36hours each one 10ap so you use them wisely anyway you would probarly get yourself a drug overdose eventully......... -- User:Boomer Australia 22:54 (GMT+10) 4th of may 2010

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Suggestions up for voting

Change to Barricade Attacks Numbers When Inside

by Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} at 11:20, 7 May 2010 (BST)