User talk:DanceDanceRevolution

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Categorizing, and no idea where to put some pages...

Spicer Hills Business and Industrial Park and Where in Malton is Bob Boberton? Have me completely confused...ideas? -Dezonus- ^(talk) 00:22, 24 October 2010 (BST)

Misanthropy got the latter and correctly so, it's a small event and could eitehr go into Category:Events or, more suitably, Category:Minigames. The first one is probably best just suited to Category:Spicer Hills IMO. -- LEMON #1 05:17, 24 October 2010 (BST)

MY IP Banning

Doesn't seem to be working. Any idea why? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:07, 26 October 2010 (BST)

I tried, and it said that ""72.254.128.202" is already blocked". Also, in the Special:Blockip display of the block log it showed "72.254.128.202" not "User:72.254.128.202", so I'm a little lost right now. -- LEMON #1 10:34, 26 October 2010 (BST)

Furthermore, I was going to give the user benefit of the doubt since the MO was slightly different than Cornholioo, but since he's using an open proxy, and we can't ban the proxy due to wiki bug reasons, a page protection is in order? Best wait for someone smart like Aichon and not dumb like us though. -- LEMON #1 10:36, 26 October 2010 (BST)

Yeah, that's why I went Proxy Route. Looking at the opening sentence I think its someone who doesn't quite know english, and the rest looks a copy and paste job. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:44, 26 October 2010 (BST)

If that is any evidence, it would be in the sockpuppet naming tradition. Hermann is the German name of Germanic warlord Arminius, and it was Teutoburg where he has beaten the Romans. -- Spiderzed▋ 10:57, 26 October 2010 (BST)

Throw up a VB case spider, We'll have a look at ban avoidance. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:10, 26 October 2010 (BST)

Mmmm. And since we can't seem to ban the IP (after its "blocking" it seems he can still edit using it) we may have no choice but to protect the page until he can show us he's editing with an IP that isn't a proxy. Other calls are that we permaban the user (and the wiki software will automatically ban his IP) and then manually unban the user, but leave the automatically banned IP alone (since I'm pretty sure we have to manually unban the IP too in those cases) -- LEMON #1 11:12, 26 October 2010 (BST)

The problem is that Ross set the block to be for anonymous users only (just as he seemingly always does for IP blocks, though I'm not sure why). Basically, since Hermann isn't an anonymous user, he's effectively grandfathered in and allowed to keep posting with that IP address. I'm going to change the block to not allow known users either. Open proxies are banned, after all, for anonymous and non-anonymous users alike. —Aichon— 19:18, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Ah. Cheers. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 19:19, 27 October 2010 (BST)

8 Million Days in UD

Where is it? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 14:50, 30 October 2010 (BST)

The truth is I've been lazy, but the last of the semester's major essays is due this Tuesday, then I'm free to wank through my to-do list. Expect progress around then, methinks -- LEMON #1 15:42, 30 October 2010 (BST)

Excellent. Could Put Swiers Bellow Suggestion into implemented as well. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 15:57, 30 October 2010 (BST)

Took a bit to find it, but eventually got there. Didn't know he'd suggested that. -- LEMON #1 01:10, 31 October 2010 (BST)

Just realised you said "wank through." Where is it? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 23:11, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Protocol for Adding Edits to Protected Historical Event Pages

So what's the protocol for adding edits to a protected historical event page?

Long story short, we have a couple of articles in which people like Petrosjko and other RRF leaders talk about memories / planning / stories from the early days of the RRF. We would like to add a link to the Dia de los Muertos, First Siege of Caiger Malland Stanstock protected pages to these history articles, which all give memories / perspectives from the zombie side/planners who helped make those events possible.

Here are the articles we would like to link to:

• Events leading up to, memories of Stanstock would go with the Stanstock article
• RRF planning, memories of Caiger would go with the 1st Caiger Siege article
• RRF planning, memories of Dia de los Muertos would go with the Dia de los Muertos / Giddings article

So...how would this work exactly? Would I post a request in the Protected Page section or what? -MHSstaff 21:57, 30 October 2010 (BST)

If you want an edit made to a protected page, go to Protections. I don't know about this though, it may be best to have links on the talk pages (Which may also be protected.)--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature3 22:07, 30 October 2010 (BST)

So you would post the requested page and the requested edit there? -MHSstaff 22:14, 30 October 2010 (BST)

Yep. Then someone should get to it really quickly.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature3 22:16, 30 October 2010 (BST)

One thing I could see happening is the link would be protected but the linked article would not be. Would it make sense to also submit a protection request for the linked article in conjunction with this request so that it could not be edited following approval (if this crazy idea was approved)? -MHSstaff 22:39, 30 October 2010 (BST)

Mmmmm... Nah. In circumstances where the page could be modified by anyone, yeah, but they just link to more pages basically under the wing of the RRF so it's hardly abusable. And if something does happen, the links can just be contested on A/PT and possibly removed without any harm to the article. -- LEMON #1 01:13, 31 October 2010 (BST)

Shouldn't Halloween 2010 be moved to a user page?

Hey Dance,

So I think thats the sort of thing for user pages, but wasn't sure so thought I'd ask you...yeah? -Dezonus- ^(talk) 22:47, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

It's an event. :P --User:Yonnua Koponen/signature3 22:50, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

I know its an event, but this is a very unofficial and non game related version...-Dezonus- ^(talk) 05:33, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

It's still an event, imo. Just because it's "unofficial" whatever that means doesn't mean it wasn't an event.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature3 06:53, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

How is it not game related? The first paragraph explains how it is. -- LEMON #1 08:27, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

HEY FAGGET

YOU ARE A CUNT--DDRSUCKSKNOB 09:26, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

The above

Actual vandal or you messing about with mates? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:30, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Not me, I'm sitting at home doing an assignment. However, I peeked over the IP data you and Yon did so I'm sure it's one of my mates having a loldrunk UDWiki moment while at a mate's place. And to think I joined their indoor soccer team... -- LEMON #1 12:12, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Manhunt interview?

Blame Axe but he dropped your name. I like Manhunts and want to do something on them, like maybe an interview. Do you have any interest? -MHSstaff 21:55, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Defo, I'll definitely help in any way I can! -- LEMON #1 22:00, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Wonderful. Head over here and fill out what you can. You do not have to answer all of them, just the questions you feel work the best. Although, it would be righteous if you can answer the ones directed at you. -MHSstaff 02:33, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Will be happy to, I'll hit it up soon. -- LEMON #1 08:43, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Alright, done almost all the ones I wanted to do. Will finish off my personal one soon. -- LEMON #1 11:41, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Many thanks; you had some really good ones. -MHSstaff 01:44, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

So the interview is located here and here. Feel free to change how you want your name to be represented or anything else in your answers. I went with DDR because I don't like typing a lot. I might change the order around a little and how much is on the main page, and how much spills over, but for the most part it will look like this. Thanks again for all your help. -MHSstaff 18:58, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Looks fine, nice work! -- LEMON #1 00:17, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

How am I doing in general?

Hey DDR,

I'm just asking, as i took a few days off due to year 12 exams and stuff. I've caught up however, and am considering applying...do you think I'm ready? -Dezonus- ^(talk) 04:52, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

I reckon you need a few more admin page edits, personally.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 07:30, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

So far I haven't seen you around much and I haven't seen you take the initiative and give your opinion on drama or discussions. The only place I really remember one of these instances off-hand was here, where your opinion was, quite frankly, wrong and very short sighted IMO. I'd suggest taking active work within the community. Or you could just run, and see what the whole community thinks, not just me (thats what I did before I got ops). -- LEMON #1 08:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Voting Expressing opinions on Sysop Elections?

When did we start doing that? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:43, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I think the question should be when did we stop doing that? Boxy and SA used to quite often, much to Iscariots dismay, and I've always freely expressed my opinion as a user/sysop. I think with Dez it's even more called for, since he's so often asking me of his opinion as a sysop. You may be mister neutral, but I'm mr... not neutral? -- LEMON #1 12:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Mr.... Positive or Negative? Box has never done it in my time and as usual I see Iscariot's pov. Hmm.... (goes to form an opinion). --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

He definitely has made opinions on A/PM cases, maybe not saying Against or Vouch (I don't remember a case of him doing that though I think he has) but he's definitely taken the time to post his opinions on candidates while crat. He was crat when he wrote on my A/PM bid, after all. -- LEMON #1 12:37, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but he didn't state a vouch, against preference. As for the last time box "Expressed an opinion positive or negative", I'd say trawling looks like UDWiki:Administration/Promotions/Honestmistake in mid 2009. I don't see a need for it, as you'll have perfect time to express your opinion at the end of the two weeks period. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 17:18, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

At the end of the two weeks it ain't my opinion, it's my opinion on the community consensus. He wants feedback and I think I have decent feedback for him. Not like it really matters anyway imo, and I've always done it without trouble or without dealing with any major conflict of interest. -- LEMON #1 21:36, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I have to disagree. A bureaucrat should be able to give his personal opinion at all times. After two weeks he makes a decision based on community opinion which includes his own. It ultimately boils down to trusting someone to be able to make a distinction between the interest of himself and the community. Considering bureaucrats are the most trusted users through A/(B)PM already, this shouldn't be an issue. --Thadeous Oakley 21:46, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I have no problem with advice, or feedback, its the bolding that bothers me darling. It reinforces the incorrect impression its a vote. my darling. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 22:06, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Darling? I didn't realise the old labour cabinet played Urbandead.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:07, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Only an idiot like Conndraka (read Honestmistake's bid, hilarious) would still think this is a vote. The bolded part serves as a one-word summary of a person's opinion, the stuff behind the "vote" explains the reasoning. This is the only way it should be taken. And what's up with darling? Are you hitting on me? Gotta tell ya, I chuckled when you "offered your services" on A/A, but don't creep me out :0. --Thadeous Oakley 22:16, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

A compliment on UDWiki is often much more threatening than a flame attack. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 22:18, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Your idea of a compliment is calling me your darling? Does not compute. --Thadeous Oakley 22:23, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Ross is English. Be lucky he's calling you darling and not commiting genocide on your nation. 22:42, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

In fairness these days we're more like Jabba's mate, leaning out from behind America and going "yeah!" --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 23:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Run out of steam after Argentina? 00:01, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Only Harriers --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 14:50, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

I absolutely refuse to believe that a sysop or crat bolding their preference on A/PM creates any more of a threat of 'A/PM being a vote' than the entire community doing it... -- LEMON #1 02:54, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

No threat, only implied bias for the crats in the decision at the end of it.--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 14:51, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough. Personally, I don't really care whether people think me voting is biased, because I know for a fact it isn't and if they don't like it they can vote a new guy in my place who they think won't do it. -- LEMON #1 03:52, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, you're both basically right, I'd say. It's perfectly acceptable and allowed, but just because you have every right to do it, doesn't mean it should be done. Even so, now that you've done it, I don't think you did anything wrong; it just would have been better if you hadn't. Hopefully that makes sense and I didn't twist words on myself there... —Aichon— 04:15, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

It might not even be a fortnight. The request has been filed on November 10. Counting Trip's weak vouch and Dez' op itself, there are just 2 vouches. Didn't promotion bids require 3 vouches within 24 hours to get under consideration? (Not that I think that whether letting it fade away at the scheduled pace or FFing the whole process will make a difference in the final outcome, looking at the way the discussion has run so far.) -- Spiderzed▋ 18:45, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Not at all. Promotions hold two purposes, the second one is to gain feedback from the community. Dez's bid is doing this in probably the most constructive way I've ever seen. Axe hack didn't decide on his recent promotion bid until a week after he was nominated. It stays. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:51, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Mmm, I've always considered it 2 weeks from when it was lodged if it doesn't make the next header. In fact, I've always completely ignored the two headers, to me a bid is a bid. -- LEMON #1 00:14, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

For your inconvenience....

61,64, half health,... maul him! Do it now.... all I have to say is that I was low on AP... -_∞ Poodle of Doom _∞ 00:11, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

ooooooh, should have planned it out instead, I don't move around much these days -- LEMON #1 00:16, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Don't you dare let me down!!!

You promised to support me in my endeavors dammit!!!!! -Estacado^Talk 02:56, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Mate, you're talking to a group of people who had "promotion parties" every time one of us got promoted. I'm pretty sure we're more than gay enough to qualify for a worldwide IRL UD meet :( -- LEMON #1 12:18, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

PM

Failing to post in the last 11 days isn't a good sign is it? I think its fairly obvious. A "one for the future" type comment methinks. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 13:35, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Tapping you for your opinion

Since I wasn't sure if you had seen this yet and I was fishing for comments or suggestions. Plus, I figure that anyone else interested will see it if I ping you and a few others. ;) —Aichon— 04:39, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

PREPARE!!

-Estacado^Talk 04:11, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Just wanted to come by and say....

Hello! That is all.... -Estacado^Talk 00:18, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Video

Where is it, bitch? --  RoosterDragon  01:44, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Sorry dude. Working on it now, but stumped for music (that's actually the reason I stopped in the first place, easily sidetracked). Got any suggestions? I think Ross and Axe (I KNOW YOU'RE ALL WATCHING) or someone had some suggestions last time for music, I'm willing to hear? -- LEMON #1 11:57, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

We need an idea of length. Personally the ending music from the original dawn of the dead always wins.--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:23, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Ha! Good call. I might use the robot chicken remix to break even more copyright licences (100 and 200 days had many a copyright issue :()! I dig that suggestion. At the moment I'm toying with the length, atm it's 1 minute, which I'm concerned may be too long for a succession of 800 colourmap images. -- LEMON #1 14:20, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm figuring that 3-4 images per second should be sufficient to allow people to discern each day while also moving along at a decent clip, which would give you about 3-4 minutes of video. Plus, it lets you work in some better tracks. Also, it'd be really cool if you both could tell us what date it was in the video (i.e. have the current month and year at the top) and then could correlate specific events to parts of the video by having either notes or comments over the video saying when things started or ended, such as the Bashes, Escape, etc., that way we could see the state of the city and know what it was all about. —Aichon— 19:09, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

I've always tried to speed them up as much as possible since 3-4 minutes of a dangermap IMO is too long for most people to bother. According to Youtube's Hotspots, the lengths I've made so far for 100 and 200 have been adequate apparently, and I think 3-4 minutes would be too long. I could always speed up the boring bits and focus on the battles/events in slower motion, though. -- LEMON #1 21:57, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Do you have a way of sharing the raw danger map images in a zipped file? It might look better if the suburb names were removed. -MHSstaff 20:27, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XXX5PCL9 - it'd be a mammoth task though. -- LEMON #1 21:57, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

It's actually pretty straightforward and automated otherwise I would never go near this. Any of these feel like "that special someone"?

The suburb names are fixed and never change so all you have to do is pull the color from a fixed sets of points for each burb, make your new map, loop through all the images and resave them with a magic computer thingamajig doohickey. Pick your favorite and I'll let it run through all the images you gave me.-MHSstaff 04:26, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I dig the first one. Anyone else got a dif opinion? -- LEMON #1 07:07, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Inserting my comment out of chronological order - I like the 1st and 2nd ones. The contrast looks better with those borders.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 20:51, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't know. I kinda liked the suburb names. Gives a better overview and it's not like I know the entire map by heart.--(Thad)eous Oakley ^Talk 09:55, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

TBH I do to, but I'm fine with giving the community creative control over this instead of just me like usual. -- LEMON #1 14:21, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Yeah but they are completely pointless (other than making the images look super low res) since you can't even remotely read them in the video. -MHSstaff 15:34, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

That's likely because YouTube converts to flv and the compression causes some (or a lot) of lossiness (I am assuming since I haven't downloaded the screengrabs myself). Try Vimeo. It may not be as much of a household name like YouTube but the videos are noticable smoother. Now if the jpegs are just bad quality or you have to stretch them to fill the video, then by all means remove the names. One less pixely looking eyesore to clutter the video. ~ 16:08, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

DDR is probably the best judge since he has an idea of what they will look like in the video. I say if you can read the names clearly, than it is probably worth keeping them. Otherwise, I would consider dropping them. Just let me know what you think works best for the project. -MHSstaff 16:21, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. If they can be read at HD, keep them. If not, drop them. —Aichon— 16:24, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

YouTube just uses Flash to deliver the underlying video, which I believe they convert to h.264 format so that it can also be seen from devices that don't support Flash. It's just a matter of resolution, and nowadays YouTube supports resolutions well beyond even 1080p (they actually support 4K, which is better than what IMAX typically uses). I think when DDR last did his videos, they didn't support HD resolutions, but they've steadily improved to keep pace with Vimeo and the like, so the loss shouldn't be nearly as bad. —Aichon— 16:24, 8 December 2010 (UTC).

DDR if you can, run a small test. Use just a few frames of video and then upload it to YT. I would hate to see you go through a whole bunch of work only to have pixely looking video in the end and either have to redo it or tell people to deal with it. ~ 16:36, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

What might look kinda neat is to fade all the suburb colors based on time since last change, and have the active ones which are changing light up in normal, shiny, bright colors. This would be a no-text option since reconstructing the text would be too hard. -MHSstaff 18:23, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Just for reference, I still have the files I created from the records. No reason I couldn't use them to churn out some images without names. Or even different images, say a 100x100 grid of just the basic colour. --  RoosterDragon  20:41, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Lolsig

Just now saw your latest signature. I hadn't realized you had ever done anything after that conversation we had awhile back. Cool stuff. —Aichon— 23:36, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Man, I was boning about with shit but failing so hard that I gave up after a while. It's still something I want to endeavour to master, but I'm more keen on just waiting till someone somehow makes an easier version. Like how I slaved over understanding Boxy's shadows and then a year later I saw someone on the minecraft wiki with a super easy shadow code :D -- LEMON #1 00:17, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I know I drink more than the Viz bakers but I think I'm missing something here. 00:26, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Pop open the page in Safari or Chrome. Compare against my signature or my header on my userspace pages. Should be fairly obvious then. Firefox and IE don't support it yet, but they hopefully will one day. —Aichon— 03:19, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Ah. I have neither of those installed, but I can check on the uni computers tomorrow morning. I knew it aped your sig but I couldn't see anything other than a two-tone colour scheme. 03:21, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for fixing whatever I did wrong. I'm new to the wiki thing and im still getting used to how everything works. Didn't know that I posted it on the main page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dr Marty (talk • contribs) at an unknown time.

Thanks. How do I

Thanks for the pointers on my page. I think I'm getting better and our group site is looking pretty good. There are two problems I'm still having though and perhaps you could point me in the right direction. Both problems are in regards to our PHOBIA group site. First, I got the templates positioned correctly, but the background color is no longer solid. By spacing them did I screw it up, or is there code I can use? Second, I was thinking of a barbedwire border around the whole page. Where would I look for different borders? If you could point me in the right direction that would be great. --Mr Watt 08:30, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

you dont you cunt--CyberRead240 02:56, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Quit it please

look i know its hard to belive i get it but dont drag it on survivor 2.0 is my roomate since he got kicked out by his girlfriend a year ago you dont have to belive me but please dont talk about it any more please its getting iritating to have somebody saying stuff thats not true thank you--Zombieman 11 23:02, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Did she kick him out because he didn't spell his love letters right? 00:22, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

You need to realise I have nothing against you and your 'buddy'Survivor 2.0. As long as you two don't vandalise I don't care whether he is you, your friend or your dog. But putting stupid communication messages in the wrong place creates work for me to fix up, because you're too dense to put it in the right place. If you wanted to actually communicate your message to your mate I'd suggest getting an email address or something, MSN, whatever. Putting personal messages here to a mate is public and is so stupid and flawed that saying you and him are the same person and you're just trying to fool us is actually doing your intelligence justice. Long story short, stop fucking about with my wiki and putting things in places that they shouldn't. -- LEMON #1 00:56, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

no because he was actually dating 2 peaple at once aka he is an idiot--Zombieman 11 00:52, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Did he manage that by pretending to be two people at once? 00:53, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

I assume its the classic, 2 dates at the same time approach, occurring in neighbouring buildings, running between the two. No doubt with hilarious consequences. Or its bollocks. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:35, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

I like that his "friend" had a mary sue-esque excuse for being kicked out. Not because he's a lowlife or because he couldn't please his girlfriend, it's because he was scoring with two chicks at once. Definitely not a common trait with multiple-personality victims. -- LEMON #1 11:32, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Web colours

Right. Yon. Hmm. Frankly it the most contentious one we've had in a long while. There's no doubting his sysopness, with his constant gnoming, and maintenance are of huge benefit. But it all boils down to the recent checkuser incident, and his recent points of view. (The one I'm most struck by was the questioning of my own checkuser use with Zombieman). Looking at his sysopness as a whole over time, Yon's done some good work, and in all honesty his reevaluation shows a lot of support. With this in mind, I'm leaning towards successfully re-evaluating him, but with a stern reminder about the privacy issue. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 15:39, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Excellent Summation. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:18, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Combo Breaker

I've got a hypothetical question.

If in the recent Yon re-evaluation we had disagreed (I.e. One Yes, one No). What would be the outcome. The Policy seems to state "Once the Crats have made a decision." But is it like promotions, where if one of us says no, its a no, or do we both need to agree to a demotion? Or both need to agree for a repromotion? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 17:40, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

I always assumed the "If one crat vetoes, it's a no" was because if there's a tied result, we keep things the same on the wiki. If so, it would mean they were re-evaluated.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:10, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Something similar came up during J3D's promotion. I believe Boxy phrased it as a all or nothing thing, where if one 'crat is against the promotion, it is not meant to be. Basically, you both have veto power if you believe Boxy's precedent. -MHSstaff 18:13, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Of course, thats promotions, not re-evaluation. You're taking something away, not giving it. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:22, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Right. I should have read more carefully. I'll go back to my propaganda world then. -MHSstaff 18:34, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

A manhunt deathmatch where the victor gets their way and the loser is demoted would be a better way to settle ties IMO. -MHSstaff 18:16, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

There doesn't seem to be a precedence (only three demotions due to A/RE that I can see) and it isn't explicitly spelled out in the policy. Probably means there should be a...*gulp*...policy discussion. ~ 19:06, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

'Crats should man-up and set it by establishing precedent. PD is where fun and thought goes to die.-MHSstaff 19:20, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

I know. But you can't establish precedence if there is no reason to :p. I was going to suggest that you contact Link since he (seemingly) ruled in The General's successful re-evaluation without input from another crat (due to no being able to get a hold of said other crat). That's the closest thing to precedence I could find. ~ 19:30, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

If there's no reason to create precedent, there's no reason to make a policy discussion.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 19:44, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Establishing a precedence is a reactive action, and Ross' question was hypothetical. Therefore there is no reason to set one (it has not happened). Starting a discussion in this case would be a proactive action. We don't need to wait for something to happen to make policy for it (nor should we). So we either determine if precedence has been established already, we wait until it happens and set a precedence at that time or we doing something proactive so that precedence is not needed. I do agree that PD is not the greatest system and I personally wouldn't open this point in discussion. Waiting to see if it happens seems like a better option honestly. crats seem to be pretty like minded and fair and just. I think they'd be able to work out a difference should it ever occur. ~ 21:25, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Exactly. it's essentially their job, so they should sort it out if it happens.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 21:31, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

I should probably leave a message on DDR's talk page asking him about it then. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:47, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

I see wha yu did thar :D....Yeah, we all jumped on top of that one, didn't we? Ah well, at least we take an interest in each others affairs. --Thadeous Oakley Talk 22:02, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

In my opinion, the general line should be that when no agreement can be reached, no action can be taken. In this case there would be no promotions, and no demotions either. This would be an extreme situation though, where neither crats would be willing to bind in. I can't ever remember or imagine this happening though in practice. --Thadeous Oakley Talk 21:45, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

The "tie vote means no action" line of thought would lead to demotion. Re-evaluation is a "re-promotion" of sorts - the idea is to re-affirm a new term, not to present the option for a vote of no confidence. Essentially, A/RE is a streamlined A/PM that cuts out the red tape for those who are approaching the end of a term rather than seeking a new one. As such, I'd follow the same precedent as A/PM - no consensus, no sysop powers. 19:14, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree. It's better to have a small group of trustworthy and competent sysops than a small group +1 where the "+1" is a bad addition. I definitely can see the others' logic since keeping the sysop would be maintaining the status quo, but the whole purpose of A/RE is to break the status quo by forcing a rethinking of their usefulness, so the default should be to reject them, not keep them. Basically, it's intended to be used to cut the fat, so that's what the default needs to be. —Aichon— 19:51, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

The whole purpose of A/RE is to establish if the sysops in question is still a trusted user (check the policy) and nothing more then that. Maintaining the status quo or not has not been mentioned in the policy. I'll stick that it (this issue) is completely open to interpretation.--Thadeous Oakley Talk 20:19, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

What you said is indeed its stated purpose, but the fact that the policy even exists is proof that it's intended to break the status quo, otherwise they wouldn't have written it. Prior to that policy the status quo was being maintained, and without the policy it would have continued to be maintained, but with the policy the status quo gets shaken up. However, I'll grant that this issue is open to interpretation as well. One correction to what I said earlier: I misspoke when I said "usefulness"; I should have said "trustworthiness". I'd correct it, but you already replied. —Aichon— 20:52, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

You're right, A/RE was made to cut the team down to its best and most reliable parts, in essence it was just to get rid of the garbage users who were a blight on the community and still managed to somehow have sysop status. Nowadays it's just a remnant of that attempt to trim down the numbers with little importance. -- LEMON #1 02:40, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

This all according to you, you mean? I get your reasoning, it's just a different interpretation of things. However, I think it is actually a vote of confidence or no-confidence by the crats (based on community opinion). Before the A/RE policy was implemented there were no "terms", sysops could last indefinitely provided they edited a very small amount ever so often. They only could be demoted through Misconduct. A/RE was created to give the community more influence, and to establish if a "trusted user" was still a trusted user.

Still, what your staying stands, I don't see any wrong or right side here. This doesn't really solve anything, it all boils to the Crats interpretation and decision as the precedent given on A/PM can be taken both ways.--Thadeous Oakley Talk 20:12, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

I've always treated it as a repromotion like Misanthropy said, and regarding Crat consensus I always treated it in the way Grim once told me on IRC in 08; a crat has a veto power he can use and if no decision can be agreed upon then the user won't be re/promoted. -- LEMON #1 02:40, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm more than happy to concur. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:26, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Because I can't work out what would happen if I didn't. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:26, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Lol. For me as a crat the promotion discussions have always been very personal transparent discussions. As such I think there's a level of control for the crats to decide how their relationship will work when it comes to agreeing. If I'm against a user being promoted but Ross, for example, were to be so for a promotion that it would outweigh my own feelings against it, I wouldn't be against following through with a promotion rather than veto-ing. But in theory I prefer the veto method as a default method for sorting out bids. -- LEMON #1 12:26, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

What you describe here, is a situation where one crat eventually gives in. But if neither is willing to give in? The worst what could happen is that Ross, for example, demoted Yonnua. And then that you DDR, would repromote him with something like "Fuck off" in the edit summary. What would happen is that you both would likely be taken up to Misconduct, with the rest of sysop team deciding on a solution. But that's extreme; Like you said, it's likely one of you would just give in, only when the crat team consists of the most stubborn people ever would this ever be an issue. --Thadeous Oakley Talk 12:51, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, if the crats reach an impass, it's as everyone's described, I believe, as the guidelines hint towards both crats reaching a decision in order to promote. Grim rejected J3D's first promotion withou consulting with Boxy at all, because Box was inactive at the time. Box inquired and Grim rightfully said that he had veto power so whether Box even (unlikely) wanted to promote J3D, it wouldn't have really mattered. If I had done that, which I wouldn't, yeah, I imagine I would be sent to Misconduct but I don't think Ross would have. Oh and I feel like being a dickhead so I'll mention that you can't leave edit summaries when changing user rights :P -- LEMON #1 13:02, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the information, heh. But I was talking about when crats would argue about what veto-power meant in A/RE, not in A/PM where it's pretty clear. It's all purely theoretical, and I'm sure it will remain this way. Can't imagine that it will ever get this far, with any of the current users. --Thadeous Oakley Talk 16:05, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Image Undeletions

Can images be undeleted? Some of the Red October images seem to have been deleted. Probably because they were only used in a switch template and thus showed up on unused images. If they can be undeleted, I will ark them somewhere. ~ 06:27, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm afraid not. It's an option on wikis that Kevan unticked because of the space it requires. Sorry mate. -- LEMON #1 06:29, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Shit, ok hopefully I have them tucked away somewhere so I can reupload. Glad I asked before I put in a request, though. ~ 06:31, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Np, good luck. -- LEMON #1 06:31, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

So, remember how I set up those edit links?

...the ones that go from the Community Portal on the main page so that you can edit Featured Articles or Community Projects? Yeah. Totally useless to normal users. Since the main page is protected, normal users don't see the edit links at all, but I didn't realize that until now since sysops can see them just fine while everyone else just sees a blank spot where they would show up. Adding some manually created ones might not be a bad idea, honestly, but I'm retired/inactive now, so... *poke* —Aichon— 08:53, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Wow. I never realised how... impossible it was for everyone else. Will giz try when I wake up tomorow -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 13:51, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

In no way an abuse of power.

In relation to this, the week long process ends tomorrow. I'd say that there seems a majority of people who want to retain him. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 15:32, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Yeah yeah I know. By aussie time it's already the 16th but waiting for wiki clock to go over before I discuss it with myself. Stop trying to coerce me with your bias or I'll have you straight on Misconduct, punk -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 15:40, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

We are all just waiting until 5 minutes before the expiration to change all our votes to FUCKING STRONG AGAINST. -- Spiderzed▋ 15:42, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Vap

Bid Ends pretty soon. Thoughts? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 17:53, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

He's a bro, he's honest and admits when he's made a mistake, and will stick with his decision even under heat (like the confrontation by Yonnua on the bid). I really dig the dude, I think he's trusted more than enough to get promoted. -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 00:51, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Yarp. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 02:04, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words

This actually meant a lot. It's nice to be remembered for those sorts of reasons. —Aichon— 10:49, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Can I add your comments on this were also a joy of reason and clarity. Come back! --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:08, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

I still haven't really left. I'm slowly removing pages from my watchlist (down from over 1000 to around 240 now), but I still check it a few times a day. >_> —Aichon— 17:48, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

No probs mate, but you shouldn't have to say thanks, I was only calling it as I saw things :] -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 03:25, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, and BALLS TO THE WHALLS!

DDR, you get an official BALLS TO THE WHALLS shout out for the tip. I removed the TOC from our page, and it looks a lot better. Also curious, since you are a wiki pro do you have any idea if there has been a though to making a page dedicated to discussing which groups have been around the longest? Revenant and I have come to a disagreement about his list, but he's not responding much anymore. And besides, that seems like the kind of thing that might belong on the wiki anwyay. --Dhavid Grohl 03:31, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

The initial thought would be to check for the oldest page edits here, but since there was a logs pure a while back, that's not going to stretch back far enough. I know that DK13 tend to claim they were the first organised group, and I've not actually seen that refuted anywhere, but where it falls into place from there becomes dodgy. You can infer a rough timeline without too much effort, but actually ranking a list seems far too herculean a task to realistically manage, especially given how prone half the community are to exaggeration. 03:48, 21 January 2011 (UTC)