Talk:Invasion of Gibsonton

Froggy

Ribbit, remind you of anything? lulz--/~Rakuen~\^Talk I Still Love Grim 16:45, 6 May 2008 (BST)

Apology on Completeness

First, thanks to Revenant for applying the NPOV template and formatting the location of the category properly.

• The NPOV is a lie. Mikhos 22:40, 19 May 2008 (BST)
• I concur. T^HEL^ORDG^UNS^LINGER 16:59, 20 May 2008 (BST)

That said I apologize for lack of completeness and so far the single source that has been used thus far, I have offered to the GDA to contribute so we will see what happens there and will put out a request on other locations to try to keep this article as neutral and close to the facts as humanly possible, it would not surprise me if some PoVs aren't represented simply due to their own desire to keep up their own, admittedly biased, page and to marginalize one of the actors in this conflict.--Garviel Loken^{No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear! Talk}19:37, 6 May 2008 (BST)

Fail Page is Fail

--Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS MSD MOB pr0n} 21:33, 6 May 2008 (BST)

Yet you still reply to it and are contributing.--Garviel Loken^{No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear! Talk}01:09, 7 May 2008 (BST)

I'm making it less fail. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS MSD MOB pr0n} 01:52, 7 May 2008 (BST)

Seems to me more like you can't ignore something that talks about you for any reason.--Garviel Loken^{No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear! Talk}03:41, 7 May 2008 (BST)

You called my survivor the leader of the PKer event. I'm sorry that I feel the need to correct you. It must be hard being wrong 24/7 and being corrected every living moment of your life. Your version of the story is so horribly wrong I couldn't let it be past as history, for the sake of the children reading this I couldn't let it go. You called Saromu the pker leader, you said the war was over historical group shit when it was over you claiming the Cathedral as territory, and although I did not correct the "spying" bit at the bottom I want to make it clear, I did not spy. I looked at the "Public" section of the forum and lo and behold you guys admitted right there that you were fleeing the suburb with your dicks between your legs like Buffalo Bill. Or is it tail between your...fuck it, eat shit. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS MSD MOB pr0n} 04:14, 7 May 2008 (BST)

Not interested thanks, I've made a point of not giving in to thugs and bullies in real life, running from someone who I'm only likely to meet online strikes me as particularly craven. And I'm not the one moving the goal posts here or censoring the news of anything you don't approve of.--Garviel Loken^{No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear! Talk}05:06, 7 May 2008 (BST)

Not sure if clarifying and fixing your oversights and assumptions is "moving goal posts" or "censoring." Or that looking at a public forum is spying. But you go ahead and get back up there on that cross.--Druuuuu ^OcTRR 07:29, 7 May 2008 (BST)

moving what goal posts? The only objectives Red Rum were ever given were "Do It For The Lulz" Turkmenbashi 15:35, 7 May 2008 (BST)

Fail page is still fail. Even if we ignore the godawful prose (damn thing's written in the style of a teenage boy writing background material for his next Dark Heresy RPG campaign), it's an Imperium POV circlejerk from start to finish. Or more specifically a Garviel Loken POV cirlecjerk from start to finish. Somehow I doubt the Invasion of Gibsonton is ever gonna be held up as an example of how to do make historic event pages rock. Turkmenbashi 14:02, 8 May 2008 (BST)

In a month I'll propose it for deletion so it's all right. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS MSD MOB pr0n} 21:01, 8 May 2008 (BST)

Bias? In my failpage?

Anyone else notice the suspicious lack of anything at all about the Philosophe Knights, their list of demands, or the fact that they're only involved because an Imperium subgroup was using forum spies? I for one don't find it even remotely suspicious that a page written entirely by Garviel has glossed over the only piece of Serious Business in the entire "invasion". Turkmenbashi 03:30, 10 May 2008 (BST)

A conspiracy, perchance? Something is amiss.... --Banana reads Scoundrell for all of Yesterday's News, Today! 18:58, 10 May 2008 (BST)

Nothing stopping anyone from posting it. The Philosophe Knights certainly know the situation on that better than we do.--Garviel Loken^{No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear! Talk}02:13, 11 May 2008 (BST)

What a shock, Garviel not knowing something. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS MSD MOB pr0n} 06:01, 11 May 2008 (BST)

Philosophe Knight demands have been added to the page. I can't let Sonny have all the fun.--Sir WV 09:42, 11 May 2008 (BST)

The first part of your first demand we complied with on our own accord as soon as we saw the shit they pulled, not going to tolerate that. The second part we can't do as the Necros were a separate group with their own structure, history, and leadership and we can't force them to disband. The rest is just a no. And no, I don't claim to know everything unlike the guy who thought he could start and end this mess like a stopwatch and no one would notice moving the goalposts.--Garviel Loken^{No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear! Talk}05:25, 14 May 2008 (BST)

Stop the bullshit

Fuck shit balls cock bitch tit dick ass crap bastard cunt Barbra Streisand. Now that that's out of the way. You guys are not in the suburb save for 1-2 guys. That's barely deserving of staying on the suburb page. You guys admitted on your own forum to not being in the suburb anymore. You lie so fucking bad. Just give up shitforbrains. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS MSD MOB pr0n} 06:04, 11 May 2008 (BST)

You'll never ever see that. Garviel can't pretend he's a master strategist in the middle of an epic battle if he admits that everyone's basically fucked off and won't come back until the Dulston Alliance turns up to hold their hands. Turkmenbashi 07:31, 13 May 2008 (BST)

If your side was winning why are you demanding our surrender every other day?--Garviel Loken^{No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear! Talk}05:20, 14 May 2008 (BST)

You do know that the only way to "beat" a PKer group is to have zombies trash everything to the point where revives are impossible and there's nothing to shoot, right? As long as there's plenty of survivors in Santlerville and the mall is still standing, about the only thing you can do for Gibsonton is talk up a lot of bathos-laden mock epic crap about how you're bravely fighting the PKer scourge block by block. The entire Invasion Of Gibsonton article and all the talk about beating PKers is a farce. Turkmenbashi 00:31, 15 May 2008 (BST)

I have one thing to say to that. A very wise man once said it is much easier to start a war then end one. Looks like you'll be learning that the hard way. And having a vile mouth does not replace good leadership, just shows you have your mouth hooked up to a septic tank.--Garviel Loken^{No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear! Talk}05:20, 14 May 2008 (BST)

This page is retarded. a) The event isn't important, though that's for others to decide, I guess; b) it is ANYTHING BUT NPOV... Asshattery notwithstanding, as some others have commented, it's basically Gavriel Lorken's UD roleplay livejournal... if this is how you approach your history major... wow... I recommend just abandoning the NPOV schtick and making it a blatantly POV article about fighting DORIS, et al. Because there is no other way to save it. --WanYao 19:42, 17 May 2008 (BST)

Yeah and see my Talk page for further wiki dramalulz. This page is a joke... It will never be NPOV. Make it a group subpage, or scrap the whole NPOV schtick already. --WanYao 19:50, 17 May 2008 (BST)

Recreating the page

Garviel, with your permission I'd like to make a new page and have this one deleted. Since the fight has grew much larger and has spread outside of Gibsonton this page no logner holds true. I'd like the new page to include the whole PK War, the various alliances, the different fronts, and the other bits of knowledge. I'd like to keep the trash talk off the page and have none of the demands on it as it lower the quality of the page. If you agree to this I'll create the new page and give you permission to edit it the page (and only you to avoid vandalism from others) as long as they fit in the spirit of the new page. If you agree to this you'll also have to put this page up for deletion as it holds no real merit in the current conflict. Thank you. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS MSD MOB pr0n} 02:52, 15 May 2008 (BST)

I must decline your offer for the following reasons:

1.) Only allowing me on the survivor end of the conflict to edit the page hurts the intent of this page. The idea was to get all sides as best as possible and sort it out from there. To that end I have PMed several people on Brainstock who are involved to some degree or another as well as posted on a few forums about the existence of the page asking for contributers. In fact I have made no vandalism reports on some posts on here in spite of that this is MY page and I could have done so at any time because I want the genuine truth, not just a filtered approved version of it. To say I am the only one on the survivor side who can contribute both opens the door for abuse on the other side and makes it problematic at best to effectively get any real perspective of what is going on beyond only what I know being the ONLY one that can be posted limits the flow of knowledge and serves no one.

2.) The demands posted are part of the conflict. They formed part of the dynamic and the rationale for the war. If you have a problem with what is in them you should have considered what you were typing before you posted what you did on an open, public forum. You also stated on the wikipage for your coalition the intent was griefing, which no amount of editing will remove thanks to the history feature each page has, the demands further illustrate and corroborate that. You can't rewrite history just because you don't like what happened or how it might reflect on you.

3.) Based on what we're seeing on the other side of the war the nature, objectives, and location has not substantially changed. It started as the invasion of Gibsonton by PKers and forces allied with the Imperium are coming into Gibsonton and by all accounts Gibsonton is still the primary battlefield. The nature of the forces involved also has not changed substantially enough to warrant this a new page and a rewrite, it is unless there's something not being posted still a fight of PKers vs. survivors because one of the PKer leaders decided he wanted to grief one of said survivors out of his group. Where it goes from there is not subject to control or rewrites because one party does not like how the story is being written.

For the above reasons I am not interested, if you feel there is something wrong with how this page is making you look this page is showing your actions based on what has been posted by you in open, public spaces on the internet and done by you. Deleting this page will not change that especially since I have a copy of all the code on this page and can simply re-enter it at a whim. At the end of the day the facts still remain the facts, seeking to conceal those facts is counter to the idea of NPOV as this page is supposed to be, counter to what history is meant to be, and counter to any furtherance of learning or understanding in Urban Dead.--Garviel Loken^{No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear! Talk}04:26, 15 May 2008 (BST)

1. I meant only you from your group since other members of your group seem helbent on hiding the truth.

2. The deamnds were nothing but a joke and make the article a joke. Link to the demands if you want but posting them up here makes this fight look silly and stupid. If you consider this part truly worth something then I'm sorry, you're retarded.

3. There are now 3 more groups on the PKer side that are fighting outside of Gibsonton. I have not updated it because this is no longer just in Gibsonton. I am trying to be civil about this in the name of historical accuracy. This page is ass and needs to be nuked from orbit so that a new and more accurate page can be created. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS MSD MOB pr0n} 20:57, 15 May 2008 (BST)

1. None of the other members are posting on this article, and we're not the ones censoring the news page.

2. Your demands were part of your rationale for the conflict. If you think they're silly that's a shame, but you made them part of the conflict when you posted them as a means of calling for an end to the conflict. Be happy I didn't post up the thing you said about if we kill someone famous you would call it off ... yet. Furthermore, the demands in question served to bring in the Dulston Alliance directly and galvanized my troops to fight harder against you. For those reasons they certainly have a place in this conflict and on the page.

3. The war started in Gibsonton. You'll note in the Rolt Heights War the conflict spread beyond just Rolt Heights but the main battleground of the war was always Rolt Heights and it was still called the Rolt Heights War for that reason. There is nothing in this war that has substantially changed the area of the conflict to the point that I feel the page needs removing unless for some odd reason the entire war picked itself up and moved to Dunell Hills or something similarly extreme and unlikely. You're also doing your argument no service by trash-talking after saying the new page wouldn't have any on it. Calling me a retard won't convince me and only proves you may physically be 18, as you mentioned on Brainstock, but you've got a lot more maturing to do before you really hit that age. And from what it sounds like your definition of accuracy is the same as the Fox News definition: "Doesn't make me look like a griefer even though the facts support that."

If you really wanted a more accurate page you could have said so from the get-go, that you're saying this now shows that you're trying to cover up some of your more deplorable actions. If you try to get this deleted I will find enough people to shout you down, if you try to remove it by editing I will have you reported for vandalism. You can't cover up the facts or the truth especially when some of those facts came out of your own mouth.--Garviel Loken^{No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear! Talk}22:25, 15 May 2008 (BST)

Lulz

I find it amusing how the person who started this giant battle is the one doing the editing of the battle article. I agree with Sonny of the basis that this article is "This page is ass and needs to be nuked from orbit so that a new and more accurate page can be created." That is a very accurate statement, and probably should be focused upon. Also, on a side note, Gavriel, your group should do better reporting on territory and such. Your group page still shows Gibsonton as "un-contested" territory. If this isn't a contest, I would like to know what is. Also, your group fails to report on current kills and such. I have killed the leader of your false priests, and have yet to see me mentioned anywhere. Is your group that apathetic about this war? -- T^HEL^ORDG^UNS^LINGER

For the record, we've got a thread to keep track of kills over at the Dulston Alliance forums. Once everyone has their screenshots loaded up, I'm sure Garviel will make it available on this page. Ottari ^{DA PDA NW} Read the Dispatch!

That is fine for the survivors, Sir. However some of us do not have access to these forums, nor wish to have said access. If this information that is used by survivors can be supplied to the collective groups involved with said "Invasion", that will be greatly appreciated. Many Thanks. -- T^HEL^ORDG^UNS^LINGER 22:21, 16 May 2008 (BST)

Yes... thats pretty much the whole point of tallying kills. What would be the point if we kept them to ourselves? I'm sure you've been keeping track on your end? --Kikashie ^{Read the Dispatch!} 22:24, 16 May 2008 (BST)

Sorry about that... to clarify what I said, when we get the formatting worked out and everyone uploads their screenshots to off-site hosts, we'll post our tally of successful attacks on the Imperium Must Die Coalition to the wiki. For now though, until everyone loads up, the Dulston Alliance is using a thread. Should be about two days. I trust the Imperium Must Die coalition will be doing a similar list to lodge their kills? Ottari ^{DA PDA NW} Read the Dispatch!

To be honest I only started counting kills recently as I didn't consider this a PKer event. Now I'm counting kills for the lulz it generates. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF DORIS MSD MOB pr0n} 05:58, 17 May 2008 (BST)

Lulz. I am in agreement Sonny. I have been tallying kills mainly to properly score my points for the Philosophe Knights. But the Lulz value is quite high, I must agree. Also, may I point out it has been longer than 2 days? -- T^HEL^ORDG^UNS^LINGER 01:58, 20 May 2008 (BST)

The Survivors will WIN!

Just don't expect any of them, least of all Garviel, to explain how. This wiki entry's been an awe-inspiring one man circlejerk of military fetishism so far, but I've yet to see everyone's favourite Space Marine take a break from all his high-falutin' talk of strategy and tactics and beating the PKer scourge to actually explain how he thinks a bunch of survivors are going to stop a bunch of PKers from being able to run around shooting up Gibsonton indiscriminately for as long as they feel like it. Turkmenbashi 17:53, 17 May 2008 (BST)

I'm happy to see someone has removed "Invading" from in front of "Pkers". Considering Survivors don't necessarily own a suburb in the first place. -- T^HEL^ORDG^UNS^LINGER 16:58, 20 May 2008 (BST)

Wrapping This Up

I'm pretty sure we've won. That is, as far as you can win in this sort of conflict. I was around for the Rolt Heights War, and based on the way the results were handled there, I see this as a survivor victory. The PKer demands were not met, and the Imperium was neither driven from the suburb or disbanded, and Loken was not kicked out. However, survivor objectives and goals were completed. The Imperium is still within Gibsonton, Loken is still in the Imperium, and the Dulston Alliance racked up a decent kill count (which was pretty much our only goal). Comments? --Kikashie ^{Read the Dispatch!} 21:13, 28 May 2008 (BST)

Fuck you faggot. You didn't win shit. We killed all of you at least 5 times over. Our "kick Garviel out" was nothing more than to troll. You're a fucking retard and should've been an abortion if you honestly think you guys won. Eat shit and suck a fat dick. --Sonny Corleone ^{DORIS MSD pr0n} 04:29, 29 May 2008 (BST)

By the way, you could have made your goals "to die as many times as possible" and that doesn't mean it is a victory. That makes you a retard. We killed well over 200 of you dumbshits and drove the Imperium out of Gibsonton which they admitted to leaving on their own forum. Go die in a fire. --Sonny Corleone ^{DORIS MSD pr0n} 04:30, 29 May 2008 (BST)

I'm forced to agree with my colleague on this; the sheer numbers alone would make this a not-victory (for the Imperium, anyway) even if a single demand had not been met. I could maybe see the DA making a case that they had a victory (I'd still contest it but you might at least have an argument), but the Imperium has no case whatsoever. --Vandr 04:43, 29 May 2008 (BST)

No. They still were killed more than they killed. Their goal was the much trenchy goal ever created. It's like playing a football game and claiming you won because your goal was to have fun. Fuck you, you still lost the game. --Sonny Corleone ^{DORIS MSD pr0n} 04:46, 29 May 2008 (BST)

As much as I disagree with Sonny's wording (Is Kikashie really homosexual, Sonny? And how are you so sure?), however I feel that not only is the claim of a DA/Imperium victory out of the question, but I feel that your original assumption is incorrect.

Kikashie, could you explain to me what the Imperium was doing during the conflict? It certainly was not involved. We have iWitness reports which show, day after day, of the same Imperium members lying at the same revive point, apparently lying down, and waiting for the storm to stop. We have screenshots, iWitness's and copy-pastes which show Imperium members hiding deep in southern Paynterton and Northen Starlington. Once again, day after day. The few reports and screenshots of Imperium members in Gibsonton itself were always followed quickly by records of their deaths. Therefore, for the duration of the Conflict, the Imperium was in fact, expelled from Gibsonton. Furthermore, many of the demands of the Philosophe Knights were met. In addition to this, you have the immense kill count ammassed by DORIS and Red Rum, without the input of the other PKers and PK groups involoved. Add the missing death counts, and it will likely double again.

While I understand your point of "Objectives" it simply does not apply in a practical sense in the case of this war. The results of the Rolt Heights War were determined in such a way because niether side had a clear goal in mind, and niether side really cared to 'win'. The PKA, certainly, was not troubled with 'Winnining'. It was all about racking up killcounts in the hundreds, and wiping out most, if not all, of the suburb (which was done, incidentally, with the exception of one police department and one hospital).

In this war, however, if one were to state that the Imperium's goals were to defend their suburb, they failed in a way which amounted to them not actually begining to defend it. They evacuated. Their kill count was almost certainly racked up to an impressive six by their leader, Brother McBeaner, because he was the only one of them to have the spine to counter-attack. The rest simply laid back at their respective revive points and waited for the Dulston Alliance to make their troubles go away.

Which brings me to my next point. The Philosophe Knights, Red Rum, and most independent PKers have left due to the boredom which results from scouring four consecutive suburbs, and finding ones targets, consistently, at revive points. While shooting the Dulston Alliance is all good and fine, it's not what we came for, and you didn't provide us with much fodder anyway. N00bert seemed your most proficient killer, and he died just as often as he killed. Maybe more(?). We left because The People We Came To Kill Were Dead. And they didn't ever seem to get better. In the words of the Wise and Intelligent G.W. Butch: "Mission Accomplished". Nobody drove us away, nobody even presented much of a threat to any of us who didn't sleep next to a mall. I personally spent most of my time sleeping in Pescodside, very near to the rest-spot of DvB and FOXHOUND hunters, though I know that many PKers slept in Gibsonton itself, with relavtive security.

While, sure, the members of the Imperium may be clapping one-another on the backs, and congratulating one another on the fact that their tactics of lying down and playing dead allowed them to not die day after day, the point is, they got whipped. In a big, big way. I've never seen a group get so utterly whipped by a PKer force before. Well, okay, I can think of one. No, two. One got Heathered and the other was Project: T.I.M.E. Nevertheless, both of those groups actually attempted to fight back. The Imperium gave up before it began.

Perhaps, if you do not understand what I am trying to get at here, I could make a comparison to the tactics of Mallrats against immense zombie hordes. You are aware, of course, of River Tactics? Well, when a substantial number of Survivor Groups decide to engage in River Tactics, they lose the mall. Even if they return after the zombie horde has passed on to another suburb, they lost the mall, and they had demonstrated to themselves and to the horde that the survivor groups did not feel that they could stand up to the horde. One simply cannot say that the survivors won, because in order to win, they needed to have fought. They lost the mall, and the horde likely devoured many unaffiliated survivors who were not aware of the river tactics being used. This is what the Imperium did. They left Gibsonton, and returned after the horde - so to speak - had left. This is not winning. The Pkers Took the Mall, if we are to stick to the analogy. And we after there were no more brains to eat, we moved on. Victory = Us.

Wow. That was fucking LONG. Sorry for making you read that. I know most of you cannot handle such a immense amount of words. Sonny, don't over-heat. You know your doctor has warned you against over-reading. --PerpetuallyDead 05:09, 29 May 2008 (BST)

I like your way of wording too, however I feel cursing let's everyone know you mean serious business. --Sonny Corleone ^{DORIS MSD pr0n} 05:16, 29 May 2008 (BST)

Hey Sonny, when you nominate this for speedy delete drop me a line if there's any voting to be done. -- User:VI/signature 19:14, 29 May 2008 (BST)

I'm going to be the bigger man and point out that on the internetz, nobody wins. --Alphy 00:45, 30 May 2008 (BST)

When it comes to Speedy Delete, I'll happily vote. -- T^HEL^ORDG^UNS^LINGER 01:45, 31 May 2008 (BST)

Questions

As part of my recent project, a PKer newspaper called:Murder Times, I would like to ask anyone willing to provide me with an interview (via MSN, or AIM, or even E-Mail) to contact me via my talk page. Please do this soon, as I wish to wrap up my coverage of the IoG soon. Also, anyone willing to help me run it, PLEASE contact me. -- T^HEL^ORDG^UNS^LINGER 02:30, 4 June 2008 (BST)

The Imperium is Dead

So who won this thing again? Turkmenbashi 13:09, 8 June 2008 (BST)

The Imperium collapsed because the different agencies were completely unable to cooperate with each other. Mock us for that if you want, but the invasion had a very minimal effect.--Scott Timewell 23:59, 14 June 2008 (BST)

GIB

Unless somebody has some objection, I'm going to note that GIB didn't actually kill that many GN. I myself only took down about 2 over the two weeks following the GN disbandment, and I didn't get any reports from other people.--Liberator LaBine 05:18, 22 August 2008 (BST)

Not at all! It's the thought that counts. --Banana reads Scoundrell for all of Yesterday's News, Today! 06:18, 22 August 2008 (BST)

Clear PKer Victory?

Surely that can't be right, the demands of the PKers were not met, yes we were badly damaged, but we were not kicked out of Gibsonton and Garviel did not leave (indeed, until after the war had ended, which I don't think counts.). - Chaplain Wilkins

Want to take it to Arbitration.....Again? And lose....Again? Thought not. --DT^PK 14:23, 29 August 2008 (BST)