Suggestion:20070806 Syringe Cost Reduction

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	This suggestion has finished voting and has been moved to Peer Rejected.

20070806 Syringe Cost Reduction

Caine 607 21:38, 6 August 2007 (BST)

Suggestion type
balance change

Suggestion scope
Survivors

Suggestion description
The very nature of the game makes it much easier to become a zombie than to become a survivor. That is, anyone wishing to become a zombie, need only wait until bitten and allow the infection to take its course; easier yet, they can simply jump out of a window. Furthermore, players wishing to remain a zombie need only obtain the skill "Brain Rot" to remain so. It is much more difficult to become and remain a survivor. Lastly, players wishing to be and remain zombies have obviously organized and are communicating outside of the game universe (as within the game their vocabulary is limited). These things combined have created an imbalance in the game.

Scores of zombified survivors await revivication but cannot be revived because syringe production takes 20 APs of the daily ration of 48. At best, only one zombie might be revived in any given day as action points must be divided between manufacture, movement, barricading, searching for FAKs, revivication, and returning to a safe-house. If this weren't hard enough, now those that revive must deal with organized mobs of zombies laying seige to NecroTech buildings.

Currently, it is more effective to search for a syringe than it is to manufacture one. I suggest the time to manufacture syringes be reduced from it's present 20 APs to a more reasonable 10-12 APs.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Keep - You're right, dedicated zombies do have it ridiculously easy to become zombies again after being Revived or remain in their choosen role with Brain Rot, while dedicated Survivor Revives are nerfed more harshly than any other example of nerfing in the game. Revives are broken, being ladden down with clumsy band-aid fixes. This would help slightly.--Sara M 23:08, 6 August 2007 (BST)

   RE (neutral) this is a classic argument who has it worse zombies or survivors its hard for a noob zombie to advance but if they are stuborn enough zombies will always get what they want because they always stand up as zombies. while survivors make use of tools and in some ways are better in all areas but standing up so if survivors could stand up fast they win if zombies keep them down they've won --zhodani 10:00 (PST) ,8/18/07 Non-author re, and learn to sign The preceding signed comment was added by boxy (talk • contribs) at 16:01 19 August 2007 (BST)

2. Keep- I mean this in more ways than one; DON'T DELETE THIS. Let this get into the rejected pile, get suggestions, and work on it. I like this- right now, manufacture is pointless. Give it a purpose. Nalikill 04:20, 9 August 2007 (BST)
3. Keep - I have read the many arguments against making this minor alteration, and still believe lowering the cost of production would not "Fuck things up". It would still be more efficient to search, those wishing to remain zombies could still remain zombies, zombies can still just pop back up again after they've been killed without any help from their fellow zombies; they don't have to wander around for days hoping someone else revives them. Survivors with the skill must still be willing (and required) to expend all their action points in obtaining syringes, healing themselves and others, barracading, applying the syringe to victims, and dealing with PKers/GKers. Lowering the production cost would simply allow a few extra actions to only those dedicated to the task. The rank and file survivor interested in only bashing zeds would gain no benefit from this change (unless he were dead). I apologize if this was a suggestion made already by someone else. I scanned the old suggestions and didn't see it. PS. I think airstrikes are a silly idea, however, adding "pipe-bomb manufacture" to the skill tree would be interesting, but would make PKers even more of a hazard. --Caine 607 20:05, 9 August 2007 (BST)
4. Change Assuming we are talking explicitly about MANUFACTURING and not USING syringes, I can agree they should cost 12 AP to MAKE. --Secruss 19:14, 12 August 2007 (BST)
5. Keep -I dont know why so many people are voting kill to this. Manufacturing syringes in game is utterly pointless right now. This serves to actually make it useful, as I have experienced 10-15 unproductive searches from time to time in an NT. If anyone is not willing to take the chance of bad luck while searching, 10 AP to manufacture a syringe would actually be a viable option.--Dr Doom86 07:32, 14 August 2007 (BST)
6. Keep - It makes sense. Manucacturing a syringe is completely pointless. You can find like fifteen with ease in the same amount of AP's it takes to manufacture 2. No one really uses manufacture, anyway (Or at least I didn't think so.)--Toastrlord^{T TSA} 02:07, 16 August 2007 (BST)

Kill Votes

1. Firing Squad - ClickClick BOOM Headshot. Just like zombies. Note- if you want to be a zombie it's easy, but if you want other people to be zombies, its hard. BoboTalkClown 04:01, 9 August 2007 (BST)
2. Kill - No way. You can get syringes cheaply by gambling with search, or you can strike out and get nothing in 40+ AP of searching (which I myself have done). Manufacturing gives you certainty, and that's worth a lot - significantly more than the mere limitation of needing to be in a powered building. --Mold 21:42, 6 August 2007 (BST)
3. Kill - No. No, I think it's working just fine. --Druuuuu 21:46, 6 August 2007
4. kill - Syringe manufacture is pretty pointless unless you only have time to log on and click a few buttons b4 dashing off! However what is needed is to make manufactured syringes better by having them also cure infection and not making them easier to make! I also think that Kevan should introduce "Airstrikes" specifically targeted at largish gatherings of zeds in open spaces.... Yeah, I reckon that might solve the revive-point Q ;) --Honestmistake 00:09, 7 August 2007 (BST)
5. Kill - At the moment at least. maybe by tying it into a new skill or something. --Seventythree 00:34, 7 August 2007 (BST)
6. Kill - Manufacture syringe is for when you log of for a long while... or if your RNG inept, which is impossible. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 04:26, 7 August 2007 (BST)
7. Kill - The game is well balanced the way it is. It should be a constant struggle to stay alive. --_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 05:25, 7 August 2007 (BST)
8. Remaining alive is the crux of the game. Don't want to play a zombie? Don't die. It's difficult, yes, but not impossible. Revives were so pathetically easy the system HAD to be changed (ie. made harder). Isn't that the reason for "strike"? That having been said, manufacturing could be altered, but making them that cheap is too much.--Pesatyel 05:51, 7 August 2007 (BST)
9. Kill- I think Kevan implemented "search" so we can search instead of producing --Savant 11:26, 7 August 2007 (BST)
10. Kill - Survivors already have it easy. Getting more syringes when revive queues are already pretty good in most places is too much. --Howard Bentley 01:49, 8 August 2007 (BST)
11. Kill - As above. --Evildemon989 ^{Talk · Help · W! · P! · SU! · TJ! · Hai!} 01:38, 9 August 2007 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. spam - don't try to fix things that aren't broken. --Ropponmatsu 21:51, 6 August 2007 (BST)
2. Dupe and Spam - Covering my bases here. This is a dupe, but I doubt a link is to be found as it is almost always spammed. This suggestion sucks, Kevan messes with the syringe find rate and lowering manufacture takes that way from him. It makes it so that it is permanently good/better syringe gain rates. Oh, yes, and one more thing, DO NOT FUCKING MESS WITH REVIVES--Karek^maps?! 21:54, 6 August 2007 (BST)
3. Spam - It's easier to find 'em anyways. Karek! Think of teh childrenses!-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 22:02, 6 August 2007 (BST)
4. Dupe- Not the exact same, but very similar. I think manufacturing is more expensive than searching in order to discourage people from manufacturing, as it's not as interesting as searching. --  T   00:32, 7 August 2007 (BST)

   Very shot history lesson on talk page.--Karek^maps?! 02:29, 7 August 2007 (BST)

   Nonauthor RE struck. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 02:34, 7 August 2007 (BST)

5. Dupe. Just read Toejam's vote. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 02:31, 7 August 2007 (BST)
6. Spam - Don't mess with revives unless they're seriously broken (which they are not). --Saluton 04:00, 7 August 2007 (BST)
7. Spam - Revives aren't broken AT ALL. As above.--Wooty 04:47, 7 August 2007 (BST)
8. Dupe - link given --~~~~_T^''' 10:07, 7 August 2007 (BST)
9. Spam - Learn to play the game before asking for major changes. Don't manufacture syringes, search for them, it's much more AP efficient The preceding signed comment was added by boxy (talk • contribs) at 10:54 7 August 2007 (BST)
10. Dupe - Toejam nailed the dupe. I'm amazed the original passed, and glad it is not implemented. _Δ^‌_Δ Swiers  15:19, 7 August 2007 (BST)
11. SPAM - OH MY GOD. Epic fail. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n} 17:04, 7 August 2007 (BST)
12. Dupe&Spam - As stated above.Chill 17:18, 7 August 2007 (BST)
13. Spam/Dupe - E) all of the above --Ryiis 17:49, 7 August 2007 (BST)
14. Spam - Believe it or not, having a hard time getting a revive is a good thing for game balance. Besides, it is awfully easy to survive if you play smart. I have a completely non combat NT who has been staying just one step ahead of a moderate sized horde for the last week, reviving people and hiding well after im done. I havent come anywhere near danger yet, and doubt i will. Remember, the only ways zombies win is through both superior tactics and attrition. Boosting the revive rates nullifies the attrition, and zombies will therefore lose when any large numbers of both meet. This is actually a terribly bad thing, as it leads to zombie dissolusionment and game stagnation. --Grim s-^U! 18:17, 7 August 2007 (BST)
15. Spam - As has been pointed out, searching for syringes has a better rate than manufacturing. Why? So that powering an NT building actually has a point. Keeping the manufacture AP at 20, means that Kevan can tinker with the exact syringe search rate (being able to get as low as 5%) to balance between zombies and survivors. That balance will change as other things are added, and as each side gets/succumbs to better tactics. Plus, your suggestion doesn't make Manufacturing syringes the same as searching (currently as ~12.8%), so what's the point? If it's still better to search than manufacture, then you'd still be searching. POINTLESS. 'arm. 03:00, 8 August 2007 (BST)
16. SPORK!! - Syringes are not broken. If anything, survivor intelligence and organisation are broken. As is this suggestion, in which the math used to "prove" it doesn't even add up... --WanYao 22:52, 8 August 2007 (BST)
17. Spam - The very nature of the game a zombie apocalypse makes it much easier to become a zombie than to become a survivor. --Pavluk 23:07, 10 August 2007 (BST)
18. Spam - As above and as other have pointed out it only takes (from experince) ~7AP to find a syringe + 10 to use it. Much cheaper than killing someone. --Dipcup 00:49, 11 August 2007 (BST)