Suggestion:20071115 Death Hands

	Removed
	This suggestion has been removed from voting Author withdrew for editing.

20071115 Deatht Hands

Suggestion type
Skill addition, change and mechanic.

Suggestion scope
Zombies, because survivors get enough attention already, I'll bother with them later.

Suggestion description
I've finally got what I consider a decent new idea for a choice skill.

Vigor Mortis

Tangling Grasp

Deatht Hands

This skill gives a +10% to hit with hands and reduces the chance to lose your grasp.

Buying Deatht Hands will remove Rend Flesh from your skills, if you have it.

(Obviously needs to be fleshed out a bit)

Also add the following to Rend Flesh Buying Rend Flesh will remove Deatht Hands from your skills, if you have it.

-=I may edit below this=-

Effect: The +10% and removal of Rend Flesh will put the standard claw damage on par with bite damage, but it increases the effectiveness of decading by 5%.

Results: An option for veteran zombies to support their horde by removing barricades faster but lowering their kill capacity whilst increasing their ability to infect multiple survivors. Gives players use of XP beyond level 41/42/43. Opens the way for individual builds that do not punish bad choices.

Notes: Buying one does not prevent you from buying the other, but doing so unbuys the first skill. "Deft - dexterous; nimble; skillful; clever" fitting with the theme of Vigour Mortis and the like.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Author Vote It is my idea. - Pardus 14:00, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

   Changed and moved to kill section --Honestmistake 15:18, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

2. Keep- A skill that remove a skill may seem ridiculous, but this can actually be helpful. --Darth Lumis^{T! A! E! FU!} 00:25, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Kill Votes

1. VOTE CHANGED! I can see some merit here but its not right yet. try going back to Talk with it and please change its name!--Honestmistake 15:18, 15 November 2007 (UTC) How the hell do I strike my old vote???

   Does anyone want to suggest a name? cause i really never cared that much about it. - Pardus 16:32, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

   As a zombie I like this, as a survivor I don't but screw that whinging harman its a zed apocalypse! Not sure on the title though... is it supposed to be "DEATH" or "DEFT"?--Honestmistake 14:14, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

   Deatht, sounds like deft just spelt like death, seemed fitting. - Pardus 14:29, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

   Seems bloody stupid to me but its the skill i am voting for not the name ;) --Honestmistake 15:04, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

   Reeks of incompetency to me. My vote is below, in the SPAM section. --Psiborg 17:09, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

2. Crime -I hate choice skills -- UCFSD 15:38, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

   Reason? - Pardus 15:46, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

3. Kill - As on the talk page, I don't like the name "Deatht Hands". It doesn't have to be a good name, it just can't be such a bad name. --Pdeq 17:21, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
4. Kill - As others, except I don't hate choice skills.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 21:36, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
5. Kill -Part death. Part deft. All stupid.  Nalikill  ^{TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI}  22:55, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
6. Kill - I would not like to spend 200XP buying two skills, and end up with only one. --Z. slay3r •  Talk  00:50, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
7. Kill - Last I heard, you aren't allowed to edit a suggestion once it's been posted. If you were planning on doing so, why didn't you take this to discussion first? --Private Mark 01:15, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
8. Kill - Impossible for new zombies to ever catch up to veteran zombies--Zach016 02:53, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
9. Death by the numbers - I will begin with the math. 2 damage at 60% is an average of 1.2 damage per AP. This is less then the 1.5 damage per AP (3 damage at 50%) that claws do with Rend Flesh. In addition, though bite also does 1.2 damage per AP (4 damage at 30%) the bite also heals and deals an infection. This death/deft hands skill would give bite a clear advantage over claws. The only benifit would be on baricades (30% to hit). After breaking down the barricades, any math minded Zed would buy Rend Flesh again. Spend 200xp to do an additional 5% versus barricades? That is...what's the word I'm looking for...a STUPID move. I hope I just put a big enough hole into your suggestion with my justification that you can fit your ego through it. Antitribu 05:08, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
10. Kill - I'm not a fan of choice skills and this isn't even useful.Studoku 10:02, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
11. Kill - I'm not a fan of mutually exclusive skills in UD, sorry. --Pavluk ^{A! E!} 10:19, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
12. Kill - As Pavluk--Seventythree^Talk 17:49, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Grime - You say that you're going to edit your suggestion, possibly after I've voted. --Funt Solo ^QT 14:15, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

   The bit where I explain to dumb R's how it works. - Pardus 14:28, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

   Well there's a rule about editing suggestions after voting has started (generally, you shouldn't: read rules below). So, as long as you're going to edit it during voting, I'm going to be voting in this section here. (Oh, and I fixed your broken formatting, which is ironic, because you're so quick to call everyone dumb. People in glass houses, yeah?)--Funt Solo ^QT 14:46, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

   Discussion moved to talk page. – Nubis 14:45, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

2. Spam Removes a skill. – Nubis 14:40, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

   Dos and Do Nots mention nothing about your own skills, it's a voluntary option you don't have to take. I understand dislike, but spam? - Pardus 15:03, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

3. Spam - It is a pretty ridiculous suggestion. How does a zombie magically forget a skill, learn a new one, then magically forget it, and re-learn it?-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 14:54, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
4. Spam - As Nubis. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 14:59, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
5. Spam - Please stop mangling the english language! What did it ever do to you?! That said, Skills which unbuy other skills are a big no no, besides, this skill works out to be vastly weaker than rend flesh, which provides a 50% boost in killing power as opposed to a 10% boost with this. The bonuses just dont compensate for the disadvantages by anywhere near enough. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 15:23, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

   Reference this big no no. The point is you are trading in killing power for demolition power. - Pardus 15:26, 15 November 2007 (UTC) P.S Vigour Mortis isn't murdering the english language? - Pardus 15:27, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

   Well, its kind of obvious its a big no no because of all the spam and kill votes. And no, VM doesnt mangle english. Its a play on the term Rigour Mortis, replacing the Rigour part with the word vigour. And just because you are an ignorant hick with an unhealthy vendetta against using the letter u belongs in words doesnt mean using the u isnt a correct spelling. its ENGLISH english. It has "U"s --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 15:50, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

   Discussion moved to talk page. – Nubis 15:58, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

6. Spam - Never remove a skill, especially a zombie's skill.--Karek^maps?! 00:38, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
7. Spam - Unbuying skills for whatever reason would set a bad precedent. --Steakfish 02:25, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
8. Spam - Sorry, but I stopped reading when I read that you still need to edit and flesh things out some more, i.e. incomplete. Also, what the frell is a "deatht"??? --WanYao 04:11, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
9. Spam - No frikkin' way. --Druuuuu 07:00, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
10. Spam - I seriously considered it until I read it.--Labine50 ^{MEMS | MHG} 13:44, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
11. Spam - This isn't even a competent suggestion. It makes no sense from any point of view; gameplay, roleplay, or the points of view that I can guess someone on various drugs would have. All three say spam. --Psiborg 17:11, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
12. Spam - I don't like to lose levels. Omega 23:35, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
13. Spamish -My valid reasoning is that the suggestion is incomplete (if you need to flesh it out, what do you do? You flesh it out). The reason I'm really voting is, is this supposed to be death hands or highly skilled zombies? --AlexanderRM 00:09, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

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