Suggestion:20071031 Bash Attack Revision

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20071031 Bash Attack Revision

Jon Pyre 14:43, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion type
Hand to Hand Combat Subskill

Suggestion scope
Attacks with blunt objects.

Suggestion description
This is a revision of the previous Bash Attack suggestion. Voters overwhelmingly suggested resubmitting it in a slightly weaker form. Here is the original suggestion. Changes are in bold.

Here's an idea for a new kind of attack unlocked by purchasing a skill. A bash would be a dead on, perfectly balanced, homerun style swing with a blunt weapon that has good accuracy and damage. This can push the weapon to its limits: a baseball bat can shatter hitting a ball, much less a head.

The bash attack would be unique in that it would use a random blunt object in your inventory. You would select "bash" in the attack dropdown menu but if you have a bat and a pool cue in your inventory which one you use would be random. The attack % and damage would be the same all the time, no matter which weapon is randomly selected. The reason for this random item selection is that the blunt attack's downside is that the weapon used has a chance of breaking. The purpose of this suggestion is to give people a reason to find blunt weapons. You want to keep acquiring blunt weapons, any blunt weapon, because you'd regularly lose them when bashing.

Now the hard figures:

Damage 3 Accuracy 50% Break Chance 20%

Included weapons:

Baseball bat, Cricket Bat, Golf Club, Hockey Stick, Tennis Racket, Ski Pole, Pool Cue

The chance of breaking also exists on misses. What the attack would look like is:

"You bash a zombie with a cricket bat for 3 damage. The cricket bat cracks on impact."

or possibly

"You swing and miss a zombie with your golf club. It strikes a wall and snaps in two."

This makes blunt weapons better than the axe in terms of damage per AP but worse than the pistol, and introduces an element of random chance. Maybe on a great day your bat or golf club will last for twenty bashes, or maybe it'll shatter on the first swing without doing any damage. You'd be better off with an inventory full of pistol ammo but having a bat in your inventory provides the possibility of a lucky streak should you ever face an attacking zombie and an inventory of empty guns. And then of course "Crap! My bat broke. Time to switch to the axe."

A few minor notes:

• You could still attack with individual blunt weapons. This uses their current rates and would not risk destroying them.
• Since the metal pipe and the crowbar have other uses and you might not want them to be destroyed they'd be excluded from use in bash attacks. It makes sense since they'd be heavier and maybe less ideal for a swing than you'd think.
• 3 damage may seem a lot, since it's putting blunt weapons on par with the axe for damage, but the cricket bat is already deals 3. Also, a blunt weapon can shatter skulls. With a hard enough swing, a bash if you will, a golf club can leave someone just as messed up as its sharper colleague.
• Since zombies can use blunt weapons, players that purchased this skill in life would be able to bash with any blunt weapons they carry while undead. While useless for a maxed out zombie this is quite useful for a player without zombie skills and an inventory full of blunt objects.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Letting zombies use Bash too I think is enough to balance this suggestion out. Survivors get an item that gives a temporary 10% accuracy bonus over the axe, and the zombie side gets an easy way for low level players with a few survivor combat skills but no Z abilities to do some damage when undead. Still, it wouldn't let you avoid getting zombie skills...you'd be breaking a blunt weapon about every five bashes. So you'd go through 10 weapons in one day of continuous attacking, weapons you couldn't replace until you're alive again. But it'd be enough to start gaining some xp towards Vigour Mortis. --Jon Pyre 14:52, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
2. Keep - *thwack* *thwack* *thwack* ... *twanGGGGGG* --Funt Solo 16:02, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
3. BOOM! HEADSHOT! Only with less BOOM and more THWACK. Not to sure about zombies using this myself, but I like it otherwise. --Karloth Vois ^RR 16:22, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
4. Keep - *Thunk* ooow!--Seventythree^Talk 16:51, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

   Keep - This revision is better. --Anotherpongo 18:47, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

5. Weak Keep - Aaahhhh... naayyhhh... uhh, okay. --Ryiis 18:59, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
6. Keep - Nice improvement. Studoku 22:44, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
7. Keep/Change - Very awesome, very useful for low level survivors who don't know how to handle a gun to get started. For RPG purposes, it'd be better if you also included a chance for the zombie to grab hold of the weapon and yank it out of your hands, kind of like how you see it's done in zombie movies. Alex the Red 16:05, 31 October 2007 (PST)
8. 'Keep - Looks good. --Pgunn 23:29, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
9. 'Keep - PwnFLAKES -- BoboTalkClown 23:39, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
10. Very Weak Keep This isn't horrible in any way, but it really had no real use other than to get rid of random blunt weapons in your inventory methodically. It's not BAD, but in my opinion it'd just make an extra button on the actions bar. --Erutan 23:41, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
11. Keep- I guess it would be fun to bash a zombie with a cricket bat. However, it's still a bit overpowered..--Darth Lumis^{T! A! E! FU! U} 00:16, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
12. Keep - Would make blunt melee weapons actually useful. --Sonofagun18 05:04, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
13. This is a form of attack that requires ammunition, and is nowhere near as good as zombie claws as some people are suggesting. Zombie claws don't run out, this would. Also, pistols are still way better. - Whitehouse 14:26, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
14. Keep 5-shot Home-Run Bat. Here comes the pitch! Driaquer swings! AND THAT HEAD IS OUTTA HERE!!! Nothin' like a little more Flavor... ~A`Blue`Jelly^TME*V*I*L*_? 02:05, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
15. Keep - Always felt like playing t-ball in game, but bats have always been too crappy. This version is better than the previous one while still an improvement. --Howard Bentley 20:53, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
16. Keep - Too bad it's too late to make much of a difference. Crazylilvietguy 00:51, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
17. Keep - Bash some skullz in! --_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 22:31, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
18. Keep - It's effectively a random # of shot crappy pistol (usualy having fewer than 5 shots per weapon) that makes clutter items useful to an extent. I don't see how that could be overpowered, since you have to search for it and you get fewer shots at lower power and accuracy then from a pistol clip. --Grognor 04:36, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Kill Votes

1. Kill - Still overpowered. Also, you dont seem to understand what flavour weapons actually are. They arent meant to be useful, just there as flavour for the game, to fill it out a little and build some atmosphere. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 15:20, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
   • Re Flavor only exists if you can taste it. Clothes are seen, so there's flavor. People find newspapers in hospitals, and even discarding them have flavor of autochucking an old rag of paper. Flares don't do anything but at least you see them. But blunt weapons? Nobody encounters them. They just sit in mall sports stores, unseen, not occupying any inventory. That's equal in flavor to having no blunt items in the game, getting rid of the Sporting Goods Store button in malls, and adding a line to the building description: "The entrance to a sporting goods store is here but you have no interest in going inside." Also, while flavor is good, I think flavourful game content is better.--Jon Pyre 15:28, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
     • You just cant resist re'ing can you? The items exist and can be found. the fact no one uses them doesnt diminish from the flavour their mere presence gives the game. Its not that i want to use a cricket bat, but i know that i can find them if i look, and if i search buildings i can find items approriate to the building if i wanted. You clearly dont understand this. There is no need for this suggestion, and giving survivors what amounts to a semi-fragile claw attack is stupid. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 15:39, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
       • Re I don't have anything else to add. I just wanted to re. --Jon Pyre 16:06, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
2. Kill/Change - Still too low chance for breaking, especially in the case of pool cues. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 15:34, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
   • Re I think a one in five chance of breaking is pretty high. Compare that to the pistol which gives you five guaranteed shots, operates at 65% instead of 50%, and deals 5 damage instead of three. If this is too much worse than firearms there's no point in spending xp on the skill and AP finding blunt weapons. As is it's a pretty useful option for players that only have melee skills at the moment. As for pool cues, for simplicity's sake I didn't want to give different rates for the different weapons. If the somewhat less sturdy nature of a pool cue strains realism too much it'd be simple enough for Kevan just to exclude it from use in bashes altogether. --Jon Pyre 15:40, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

   Have you checked the find rates on those weapons? Because you don't need a specific weapon, the total find rate is pretty damn high. Thus, the chance for breaking should be high too. They're not supposed to replace firearms. And it would have been even simpler for you to exclude the pool cue from use in bashes. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 15:56, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

   Re They are pretty high search rates, but then again the bonus isn't that high either. You're still spending AP looking for them that otherwise could be unlimited axe hits. And even if the break % should be higher, I think it's a little silly for me to resubmit the entire suggestion a second time just to change 20% to 25%. --Jon Pyre 16:08, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

   I meant something like 50% or 75%. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 20:13, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

3. Kill - The damage and accuracy are good, but as the others, I'd like to see a greater break percentage (40%?). --Z. slay3r •  Talk  22:11, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
4. I like it but I think it should be a baseball bat "effect" rather than just a general one. Crowbars are debarricaders, pipes are barricades, knives are newbie weapons, axes are the damage weapons. Even the pool cue has the unique break effect. But Steakfish has a point. I'd up the damage to 4 but lower the accuracy to, say 35%.--Pesatyel 01:15, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
5. Kill - La la la...-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 05:04, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
6. Kill - Lets compare. Axe vs. baseball bat. Axe = A sharpened metal blade yet baseball bat can do more damage. No. --Taint 20:35, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
7. Kill – Still broken. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 21:30, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
8. Kill - I agree with all those below me, but really, this is nto spam. he can fix it up on the talk page and probably get a good idea out of it (possibly making it 80% to deal 4-8 damage but guarantee break??) --Poopman9 23:41, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam - Damage 3 Accuracy 50% Break Chance 20% means overpowered. You want zombie claws go zombies. Nothing significant has changed. --Karek^maps?! 15:52, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
2. Spam- Why are you so incessant upon making useless blunt weapons have a purpose? It is overpowered because when a zombie runs out of blunt weapons they have no way of getting more other than becoming human again, there should never be a cross species skill that requires you to be one side to utilize it. And there is no point in making a suggestion that in the long run is going to make no difference.-- BKM 16:38, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
3. Spam - Karek said it best. --Nikitis 17:50, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
4. Spam - Thinking about it, still overpowered. --Anotherpongo 18:49, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
5. Spam I Am Not to be like Grim but just GTFO plz. Sockem 19:25, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
6. Spam - I'm with the guy who always votes spam.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 23:09, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
7. Spam - So why wouldn't I use an axe, instead? I only have to find it once, it never breaks, it does the same damage, and has only slightly lower chance of hitting (40% vs. 50%). This isn't overpowered, it's underpowered (or both...not sure). --Steakfish 23:12, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

   Actually, this suggestion has a use. For example: You keep bashing a zombie, since bashing has higher accuracy. When the blunt weapon breaks, you switch to the axe (obviously). And also for RPing purposes..--Darth Lumis^{T! A! E! FU! U} 01:45, 1 November 2007 (UTC) non-author re: struck --Ryiis 14:39, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

   • Re"Actually, this suggestion has a use. For example: You keep bashing a zombie, since bashing has higher accuracy. When the blunt weapon breaks, you switch to the axe (obviously). And also for RPing purposes..--Darth Lumis^{T! A! E! FU! U} 01:45, 1 November 2007 (UTC)" Vkkhamul said it before I could. --Jon Pyre 15:01, 1 November 2007 (UTC)